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Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)

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dick greenhaus 28 Feb 04 - 03:30 PM
Lancashire Lad 28 Feb 04 - 04:02 PM
GUEST,John Ford. 28 Feb 04 - 07:54 PM
Jeri 28 Feb 04 - 08:31 PM
GUEST,Lien 29 Feb 04 - 12:35 PM
dick greenhaus 29 Feb 04 - 12:50 PM
michaelr 29 Feb 04 - 01:30 PM
dick greenhaus 29 Feb 04 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,Lien 29 Feb 04 - 04:20 PM
dick greenhaus 29 Feb 04 - 05:00 PM
GUEST,Gerry. 29 Feb 04 - 07:01 PM
Richard Bridge 29 Feb 04 - 07:12 PM
Susanne (skw) 29 Feb 04 - 07:38 PM
red max 01 Mar 04 - 05:27 AM
Lancashire Lad 01 Mar 04 - 07:22 AM
pavane 01 Mar 04 - 07:33 AM
dick greenhaus 01 Mar 04 - 11:16 AM
dick greenhaus 02 Mar 04 - 11:43 AM
pavane 02 Mar 04 - 12:06 PM
pavane 02 Mar 04 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,Leprechaun 17 Mar 04 - 11:35 AM
GUEST,T-boy 18 Mar 04 - 07:55 AM
greg stephens 18 Mar 04 - 08:29 AM
dick greenhaus 18 Mar 04 - 09:59 AM
GUEST,Bill Thomas 18 Mar 04 - 02:45 PM
dick greenhaus 18 Mar 04 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,Bill Thomas 18 Mar 04 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 18 Mar 04 - 06:36 PM
dick greenhaus 18 Mar 04 - 07:35 PM
Malcolm Douglas 18 Mar 04 - 07:58 PM
greg stephens 19 Mar 04 - 01:57 AM
GUEST,Bill Thomas 19 Mar 04 - 04:46 AM
greg stephens 19 Mar 04 - 04:48 AM
GUEST,Ian 20 Mar 04 - 06:49 AM
dick greenhaus 20 Mar 04 - 05:56 PM
GUEST 21 Mar 04 - 01:39 AM
GUEST,Ian 21 Mar 04 - 04:33 AM
dick greenhaus 21 Mar 04 - 05:37 PM
GUEST,Rob Donnelly 26 Mar 04 - 03:49 AM
pavane 26 Mar 04 - 06:53 AM
pavane 26 Mar 04 - 06:54 AM
Roger the Skiffler 26 Mar 04 - 09:29 AM
GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M 26 Mar 04 - 10:03 AM
dick greenhaus 26 Mar 04 - 11:26 AM
GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M 26 Mar 04 - 12:24 PM
GUEST,John, Randfontein, SA 08 Sep 04 - 03:54 AM
treewind 08 Sep 04 - 08:10 AM
early 08 Sep 04 - 10:40 AM
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early 08 Sep 04 - 01:30 PM
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Subject: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 03:30 PM

For folks that don't want to wade through the 120+ postings in Celtic Bulmer (4)

Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (4)
From: dick greenhaus - PM
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 05:14 PM

A Plea for Some Sort of Clarification

As I (perhaps poorly) understand it, Celtic Music has done three bad things"

A. They sat on some titles (notably Nic Jones) and refused to release them, doing financial harm to the artists.

B. They (allegedly) have not paid royalties to the artists on thr few CDs they have released.

C. They have released CD-Rs without notifying anyone that they're nor properly pressed CDs.



Could someone tell me if I'm reading this correctly? The reason I ask is that CM has recently released a small flood of excellent previously-unavailable CDs, and I'd like to make this very fine music available to my customers. Objection "A" clearly doen't apply here. As far as "B" is concerned, I'd be grateful if any artists whose work has been released would let me know if they are receiving royalties; if they're not, I can probably make some arrangement where I'll pay the royalties to them directly. As for "C" it is as it is; I'll make no secret about whether they're CD-R's or not, but I'd like to point out that any CDs (or CD-Rs) I sell come with a lifetime (probably mine) warranty.

I'd really like to help make this music available. What think you?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 04:02 PM

Hi Dick

I'm one of the few people on here who doesnt believe Dave Bulmer is the devil incarnate!

CM have now released 2 Nic Jones albums. Royalties have been sent, but cheques remain uncashed as I believe there are ongoing negotiations over new contracts / royalty rates , etc

I'm not sure about all artists on the label, but a friend recently spoke to Sid Kipper, he said he gets paid no problem and is happy to keep releasing his stuff through them

Yes they press on CDR, but had I not been told, I would never have guessed. I've bought quite a few of them and never had a single problem yet

By the way though. There are a lot more than a "few" CDs they have released. CM own everything on Trailer, Leader, Black Crow, Making Waves, Mulligan, Dara, Broadside, Sweet Folk and Country, Folk Heritage, Greenwich Village, Rubber and I'd guess a load more.

Cheers

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,John Ford.
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 07:54 PM

Whatever Bulmer and Sharply own, they have stolen almost every penny
from Pat Cooksey's song The Sick Note, Cooksey seems to b exiled in
Germany while Celtic Music take all that is his due to him, I think
Cooksey is doing someting about it, I certainly hope so, for the sake
of folk music.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 08:31 PM

Dick, you might try posting on uk.music.folk. Gaughan hangs out there, and other folks could probably let you know how to reach other Bulmerized recording artists.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Lien
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 12:35 PM

Dick, you don't mention how you will be paying royalties. Do you intend to buy CD's from CM (presumably as a retailer) at dealer prices and then make an ADDITIONAL royalty payment to the artistes involved? How will you calculate the royalties? How would this be possible unless you are content to reduce your own margins? OR do you intend to simply attempt to purchase from Bulmer and then stiff him for the royalty element that you have calculated so that you can remit to the artistes concerned? If so it sounds just a tad naive however altruistic it sounds! Perhaps you actually mean to bootleg original material. Please put me out of my confusion. Whilst I thoroughly agree that it would be good to make more folk music available please never forget that Mr B and the bag carrier Sharpley will surely take you to the cleaners if you attempt to write your own "terms of trade". Good luck anyway.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 12:50 PM

Guest, Lien
Do you intend to buy CD's from CM (presumably as a retailer) at dealer prices and then make an ADDITIONAL royalty payment to the artistes involved? That's the idea. And remember, I'm not sure (and won't be until I hear from the artists, that they're not getting royalties.

How will you calculate the royalties? typically, royalties come to 5% of the recording's list price

How would this be possible unless you are content to reduce your own margins? That's the idea.

OR do you intend to simply attempt to purchase from Bulmer and then stiff him for the royalty element that you have calculated so that you can remit to the artistes concerned? I don't intend to stiff anyone. Please keep in mind that we're not talking about a hell of a lot of money here. My main interest is getting the music out. THat's why DigiTrad exists; that's why CAMSCO exists.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 01:30 PM

Dick -- great idea, and it's good of you to consider reducing your profit margin.

Where can one see a list of this "small flood" of new releases?

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 01:45 PM

Ok-
A partial listing:

LER 2027        Nic Jones               Nic Jones
CROC 211        5-Hand Reel               Gaughan, etc.
LER 2014        Ballads & Songs               Nic Jones
RUB 028               Nowt So Good'll Pass        Bob Fox, Sid Luckley
LER 2122        Chained Melody               Sid Kipper
PHF 1004        Barking Mad               4 Men & a Dog
PHF 1003        Shifting Gravel               4 Men & a Dog
PHF 1005        Dr. A's Secret Remedies        4 Men & a Dog
PHF 1006        Long Roads               4 Men & a Dog
LUN 051               Time to Time               Gerry O'Connor
LE 4006               The Border Minstrel        Billy Pigg
MOO 2               Rooted!                        Mike Harding
LE 2121               Cod Pieces               Sid Kipper
                    Arky's Toast               Martyn Wyndham-Read
LE 2092               Maypoles to Mistletoes        Martyn Wyndham-Read
RUB 029               On Two Levels               Sean McGuire & Josephine Keegan
LE 2011               Rout of the Blues        Robin, Barry Dransfeld
PHF 1001        From the Beggar's Mantle Barbara Dickson
PHF 1002        Orfeo                        Archie Fisher
GVR 214               Songs & Tunes From Wales        Mick Terns & Pat Smith
GVR 224               You Can Take a White Horse Anywhere Terns & Smith                                                                                                   
CMC 080               Both Sides of the Coyne         Mick Coyne
CMC 009               Hom Bru                        Obadeea
CMC 079               Lifeswork                 James Keegan
DAM 056               Since Time Immoral         Kipper Family
PHC 2K2               Legendary Queen of Irish Folk Singers        Delia Murphy
LER 2044       Music From the Coleman Country Revisited        various
LED 2052       Shetland Fiddlers        various (inc. Aly Bain & Tom
                                                         Anderson)
CGR 002               Mouth Organ              Will Atkinson
LER 2038        The Bonny Birdy              Ray Fisher
LER 2076        Bright Phoebus              Lal & Mike Waterson
GVR 209               The Ettrick Shepherd        The McCalmans
GVR 209               Aboard the Cutty Sark        Stan Hugill
CMC 081               You are Here                 Tich Frier
PHC 2K7               Frank Wappat's Spring Collection        various
PHK 2K3               The Street Singer        Arthur Tracy


Can't quote prices as yet--I'd rather wait a short while and see if I'll be lynched by maddend Mudcatters


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Lien
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 04:20 PM

Well Dick, it sounds too good to be true and I wish you luck. Mr Bulmer too will be happy as, of course, technically royalties will have been paid and thus he is presumably relieved of the obligation to pay them himself. He would have won by default and surely this is not the object of the exercise? So you dont end up in bankruptcy sooner than you would wish, could I suggest that you find out exactly how the royalty is calculated - do you intend to pay an (average) of 5% of the list price CM sells to you, or on the list retail price. The difference in cost to you would be very considerable. The base on which the royalty is calculated is so important and you must see that there is a world of difference between a base of (say) £7/unit dealer, and (say) £12/retail. I think this is a minefield and I cannot fail to say that I think you will be taking on too much even though the proposed items look so interesting. You certainly must take proper advice - not least from the MCPS and the BPI.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 05:00 PM

Mr. Bulmer is still responsible for royalties--what I do as a customer of his in no way relieves him of that obligation, whether or not he honors it. 5% of £12 is 60p.--which isn't catastrophic (and I suspect that original royalty agreements call for a somewhat lower amount.) The MCPS and the BPI have absolutely nothing to do with this.And I only wish I could make a £5 profit on recordings from the UK--

..and, realistically, I doubt that there would be more than a couple of hundred sales (total) involved.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Gerry.
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 07:01 PM

Please sell whatever you wish Dick, you are dealing with a bunch of crooks who take everyting from the artist's you claim to reperesent.
All the more profit to you and hang the rest.
Celtic Music, Bulmer and Sharley, are tbe worst examples of the
exploitatin of folk music I have ever encountred.
Please count the money, and f''ck the rest.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 07:12 PM

If, as reported, Sharpley has been struck off as a solicitor, and if, as reported, he continues to purport to be a solicitor and to represent Bulmer/Celtic in court, why has he not been charged with offences under the Solicitors Acts?

If anyone can PM me with actual facts, including Sharpley's full name and preferably address and the places and dates where he purported to be a solicitor I may (time permitting, I am under the gun all this week) take the issue up with the Law Society.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 07:38 PM

I bought Ray Fisher's 'Bonny Birdy' in a shop in Britain last year and found (too late) that it is a CD-R copy. I understand that such copies are expected to be less long-lasting than industrially produced CDs, and therefore feel cheated. It cost me the same as any other CD and was in no way marked out as a copy. I only took a closer look when it wouldn't play in my CD walkman nor in the PC. Can't take it back, though ...


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: red max
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 05:27 AM

For what it's worth, CM's reissue of the first Hedgehog Pie album had loads of vinyl crackle. I've read from other sources that you can expect some pretty shoddy packaging, too


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 07:22 AM

I didnt know that CM or anyone else in the UK had re-issued the 1st Hedgehog Pie album. I've been looking for a CD of this (and the other albums) for ages, but can only locate the Italian bootleg CD with the Lambton Worm tracks added.
If this is the one you are talking about, it has nothing to do with Rubber Records / Celtic Music. It's the product of an Italian bootlegger.

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: pavane
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 07:33 AM

Dick,
The other point (apart from your first 3) is that by selling CDRs, they do not have to tell anyone how many they have made. Therefore any royalty payments will be based on their own sales figures, with no independent confirmation available.

How trustworthy are they?

And unfortunately, buying from him just lines his pocket further.

(PS on the case of Sharpley, I believe the case was dropped)


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 11:16 AM

Pavanne-
The same lack of auditability (to coin a word) exists with pressed CDs--witness suit against Green Linnet.

I really don't see how a retailer--me--can function if the goodness or badness of the supplier is called into question. I also don't see how a retailer--again me--can be held responsible for the audio quality of a CD, short of mentioning it to the prospective purchaser (which I intend to do.)

I'd like to sell these CDs simply because there's some fine, otherwise unavailable, music therein. While I realize that any such sales benefit M. Bulmer, I also realize that my computer purchases benefit Mr Gates (whom I personally detest.) MY like, or dislike, of the publisher can't prevent me from patronizing him, unless there are other equivalent sources.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 11:43 AM

If there are no more compelling dissenters, I'm going ahead with the import. Could somebody E-mail me an address for Nic Jones? I'd like to get the royalty business settled.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: pavane
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 12:06 PM

A search for Mollie Music should find an address.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: pavane
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 12:09 PM

Nic's site is Here


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Leprechaun
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 11:35 AM

Dave Bulmer is playing St. Patrick's night in Leeds at The New Roscoe with The Drouthy Band. I'm sure you'll all be down to wish him well!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 07:55 AM

I hope some bootlegger recorded it.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 08:29 AM

Dick Greenhaus injects a note of reality in the proceedings when he points that what he is discussing is probably the sale of a couple of hundred records. These royalties that the terrible Mr Bulmer may or not have have shafted people for are in the area of beer/pin money(and not many beers or pins at that). A tiny handful of folkies that get big BBC/Froots coverage make more substantial sales that result in royalties measured in thousands of pounds, but that is surely not the case with Bulmer artists, I would guess.
    He may be doing all sorts of wrong things, but I doubt if he's lining his pockets to any extent.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 09:59 AM

I can only add that Sid Kipper, at least is receiving royalties--he's the one who gave me Celtic Music's address in the first place.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Bill Thomas
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 02:45 PM

I wonder about this. Celtic Music isn't the only music industry source of music often accused of non-payment of royalties to artists. I have also heard that Green Linnet in the US routinely stiffs their artists as well. Do you sell their CDs?

Why the special case for Celtic Music, if you don't mind my asking?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 04:24 PM

As a retailer, I'm not the guardian of publisher's morals, or reponsible for punishing any lapses of ethics. Especially alleged ones. I sell everything folk or folkish that's in print.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Bill Thomas
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 05:54 PM

I agree wholeheartedly dick, which is why I asked why Celtic Music seems a special case? I mean, Altan's lawsuit against Green Linnet alleges over $100,000 in unpaid royalities, refusal by Green Linnet to provide sales figures, etc.

I posted because it seemed odd to me that a retailer would go to such extraordinary lengths for a couple 100 CDs, when there are many distributors in the folk music industry who have been accused of ripping off artists besides Celtic Music. I would imagine that trying to do what you suggested you would do in your posts above, ie pay royalties directly to musicians, could quickly become a bookkeeping nightmare for a retailer.

I don't mean to be stepping over the line of polite decorum here, but I get the feeling from your response that the line is already behind me. You did ask for feedback on this.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 06:36 PM

I 'ad that Wendy Newton in my Vauxhall Cavalier once. Bleeder broke dahn near 'Atton Cross station (motor, not the bird). On my life...


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 07:35 PM

Trying to make a business out of selling folk CDs is a nightmare(albeit a pleasant one), whether or not royalties are involved.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 07:58 PM

Read the old threads, Bill. You'll quickly find that one reason why they are all closed to new contributions is because far too many people have asked exactly the question you have asked without bothering to read what has already been said, and then it has all been said again... and so on.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 01:57 AM

"Bill Thomas" seems strangely familiar in style, I think we made have heard from him before in other guises on this topic?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Bill Thomas
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 04:46 AM

Thanks for your suggestion Malcolm, but having just checked the volume and viturperativeness of those threads, I've no intention of reading them.

Opinions were asked for, I gave mine. I find it just plain bizarre that any retailer would single out a single distributor alleged to have ripped off the musicians whose catalogues they own, and selectively pay some musicians royalties directly from the sales of the CDs.

But then, that's me. Now, since holding that opinion apparently makes me suspect in the eyes of some (apparently) paranoid individuals here, I'll bow out now, with due apologies for having posted at all.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 04:48 AM

like i said


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 06:49 AM

Seem to be a umber of Bulmer excusists around these days. Although the threads bega with the rips, the debate has matured to expose DB and his companies for what they are. I understand that almost without exception Bulmer has managed to damage nearly evryone he comes in to contact with, whether it be in the field of folk music, record distribution, record pressing etc. Very few people seem to speak particularly well of him but is it any wonder? At the first sniff of dissent (ie demands for royalties etc) Bulmer commences legal action. Distributors have been ripped off and there is at least one case ongoing where a distributor has not been paid. He really is not the nice guy some now hope to paint him. Dont believe me? Make contact with some of his former business partners most of whom have been ruined by his actions. In the knowledge of what he means, anyone now dealing with him deserves what they will undoubtedly get.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 05:56 PM

I'm confused. I'm as willing as anyone else to believe that Bulmer is a bum, a nogoodnik, the AntiChrist....whatever. But can someone tell me how it's possible for a recording outfit to stiff a distributor? Distributors are supposed to pay recording companies, not vice versa.

I'd really like to know--might come in handy some day.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 01:39 AM

CM is not a "recording outfit"; never really has been. It is primarily a distributor which, over the years, has bought up the back catalogues of numerous small record labels. Odd bits of new material are generated occasionally by one of other of the complicated series of "nested" companies involved, but that has never been an important part of the business. The current series of re-issues are reported by some people who have bought them (see discussions on uk.music.folk) to be home-copied CDRs; whether that is accurate or not I don't know. I do know some former business associates and clients of Mr Bulmer, however, and they do not, on the whole, remember him with affection. "Lancashire Lad" is a rare voice in his favour. I wonder who he is?

The fact that some of the "Celtic Music" companies are still trading normally suggests that they have maintained acceptable working relationships with a reasonable number of other concerns. The general consensus, however, is that it is politic, when dealing with them, at least to have available the proverbial long spoon; and to try to be sure that you owe them money, not the other way around.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 04:33 AM

Dick. I did not say that CM was principally a recording outfit. That side of CM business is probably a minority activity these days and has been for several years. CM and its famed owner, Mr Bulmer, makes money out of other more lucrative activities - distribution being just one of them. The problem stems, it seems, from Mr Bulmer's preferred accounting method which is that of contra accounting and this is where he gets the upper hand over all those he deals with. It is perfectly feasible for him to damage distributors in this way. The notion of product (ie records, tape s and CD's) exchange is his way of ultimately ensuring that the other parties lose out. I think that if you delve a little deeper into his methods you will see that I am right and you will probably discover that on accounting day, Mr B applies all the ancillary charges (normally carried as an element of "cost of sales") which effectively put the other party into a debtor situation. Arguments follow and then the legal eagle Sharpley swings in to gear with writs and threats of all sorts of legal action. This is the way CM does business. Dick, ask around and if you still consider that a deal with Bulmer could be good, take time to develop the proberbial eyes in the backside. It will certainly be profitable but assuredly those profits will be Mr Bulmer's.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 05:37 PM

Dunno about "certainly be profitable" but I hate to have all that good music unavailable to the few who want to hear it.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Rob Donnelly
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 03:49 AM

I re released my first Album "Dirtfile" on Mr Bulmer's Delta Label 4 years ago and I haven't had a penny, but does that mean he's been ripping me off or has he simply failed to sell any albums?
There's one thing for sure, no wonder he has trouble distributing them if he's as popular as this forum suggests.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: pavane
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 06:53 AM

The former sounds more likely.

Have you checked with any shops or distributors as to whether they sell/have sold it? I don't think there are too many folk specialists, so it may be practicable to check.

But I don't suppose suing for royalties would be cost-effective - that's part of the business rationale, I expect.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: pavane
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 06:54 AM

Perhaps you could check - get a few people to actually BUY it, and see what happens. But that isn't cost-effective either!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 09:29 AM

Couldn't the Musicians' Union act on your behalf, Rob?

RtS
(You ARE a union member, I hope, brother!)


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 10:03 AM

To Rob, surely you would know exactly how many have been sold over the four year period OR does CM not bother with royalty statements??? Your contract with Delta (CM/Bulmer/uncle Tob Cobbly et al) will or should give precise details of the statementing period and the accounting thereafter. But if you dont hold him to the letter of the contract perhaps you really dont deserve to know.......


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 11:26 AM

As I recall, it isn't on CMs list of what's available. Royalties, as has been pointed out here many times, only apply to product that's been sold.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 12:24 PM

Indeed that is so. But whether a record is sold, or not sold, the contract will (certainly should) provide for a Statement at prescribed intervals. This is common practice amongst all reputable companies. But there again, we are talking about a Bulmer company....


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,John, Randfontein, SA
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 03:54 AM

I haven't visited this thread for many months and it ssems that all is now quiet. Has the man made his peace with you all. It was so vexed at one time and now nothing. Any news?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: treewind
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 08:10 AM

I guess all that's to be said has been said, and the rest is speculation until something new happens in a law court.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: early
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 10:40 AM

i wonder if anyone who writes into these threads have actually met Dave or know him? I am aquainted with him and from my knowledge of him directly would say he is no different than any other business man. I also know of artists who Dave has facilitated the release of their own CD's for no cost in return for the rights to sell with a number going to the artist directly to do with as they wish. They seemed quite happy with this arrangement as far as I know. I also visited CM's warehouse and purchased a number of tapes cd's and vinyl(some of major artists) in the past, always finding them more than helpful and knowledgeable about their vast stock of freely available music. If he were as bad as you all make him out to be i am sure he'd drive a much better car and be living a lavish lifestyle which any one seeing him would know is not the case. Dave is passionate about music in both preserving and collecting as well as being a talented player well connected to many well established artistes with whom he plays and associates - this hardly ties in with the picture most of you paint of him.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 12:23 PM

early, I think you are rather naive. Seek out Bulmers former partners, people he has done business with, and chat to some of the musicians you claim he associates with. Let the true picture emerge.
By the way, did you count your change?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: early
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 01:30 PM

BRAVE GUEST at least have the decency to add your name or state facts - most of the junk posted is third hand and based on what someone said happened to someone else - no business would still be in existence if all that is attributed to cm / d bulmer had occurred - i think the naive are those who have jumped on this band wagon to have a go. Musicians getting shafted by producers and record companies is nothing new but habging on to something you own till the time you want to either sell it or utilise it, depending on market conditions as far as i am aware is good practise - precisely what CM are accused of - also i have yet to meet anyone on the folk scene (including major touring artists who make much from royalties anyway - as pointed out earlier in this thread we are not talking about thousands of tiltles or copies anyway - pirates are probably taking more out of the artises pocket than anyone else on the folk scene - where incidently most of the act i book sell their own CD's at gigs more than anywhere else


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