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Welsh language folk music

Jim Carroll 14 Feb 14 - 02:20 PM
GUEST,Gwyddno 14 Feb 14 - 02:02 PM
sian, west wales 31 May 13 - 07:54 PM
GUEST,Lavengro 31 May 13 - 07:35 PM
GUEST,Lavengro 31 May 13 - 07:31 PM
GUEST,Lavengro 31 May 13 - 07:28 PM
GUEST,Squampton man. 31 May 13 - 11:23 AM
sian, west wales 27 Jan 11 - 09:45 AM
sian, west wales 01 Nov 10 - 08:35 AM
Mr Red 01 Nov 10 - 06:54 AM
sian, west wales 01 Nov 10 - 05:16 AM
GUEST,Seligmanson 30 Oct 10 - 03:29 PM
sian, west wales 21 Jul 10 - 02:49 PM
GUEST,jpmarmaro 21 Jul 10 - 12:03 PM
sian, west wales 11 Jul 09 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,Dave Williams 11 Jul 09 - 10:28 AM
sian, west wales 01 Jul 09 - 04:23 AM
Jack Campin 30 Jun 09 - 08:51 PM
sian, west wales 30 Jun 09 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,John Marmaro 30 Jun 09 - 03:24 PM
sian, west wales 08 Apr 09 - 07:28 AM
GUEST,Robin in Devon 08 Apr 09 - 05:07 AM
Fliss 20 Oct 07 - 05:44 AM
Nigel Parsons 19 Oct 07 - 08:06 PM
katlaughing 19 Oct 07 - 03:38 PM
sian, west wales 19 Oct 07 - 12:05 PM
Chris in Portland 19 Oct 07 - 10:53 AM
sian, west wales 19 Oct 07 - 05:39 AM
Fliss 19 Oct 07 - 04:39 AM
Chris in Portland 18 Oct 07 - 10:45 AM
sian, west wales 11 Oct 07 - 05:52 AM
Chris in Portland 10 Oct 07 - 06:00 PM
sian, west wales 10 Oct 07 - 11:37 AM
Chris in Portland 10 Oct 07 - 09:54 AM
woodsie 10 Oct 07 - 04:32 AM
sian, west wales 10 Oct 07 - 04:26 AM
Chris in Portland 09 Oct 07 - 07:13 PM
sian, west wales 09 Oct 07 - 06:12 PM
Chris in Portland 09 Oct 07 - 04:13 PM
sian, west wales 09 Oct 07 - 02:28 PM
Llanfair 09 Oct 07 - 01:25 PM
sian, west wales 09 Oct 07 - 12:16 PM
Chris in Portland 09 Oct 07 - 11:23 AM
sian, west wales 09 Oct 07 - 09:44 AM
greg stephens 09 Oct 07 - 09:06 AM
greg stephens 09 Oct 07 - 09:04 AM
GUEST,Wildrose-Wally 09 Oct 07 - 07:02 AM
sian, west wales 09 Oct 07 - 04:45 AM
Llanfair 09 Oct 07 - 04:37 AM
Mick Tems 09 Oct 07 - 04:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 02:20 PM

There used to be a number of Welsh language songs which had been transferred from early cylinder recordings onto tape at the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library at Cecil Sharp House.
Don't know if they were ever digitised - if you are interested check with Malcolm the librarian - nice feller
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,Gwyddno
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 02:02 PM

Re Seidr Ddoe:

Here are the words as I understand them. I've added a few notes at the end which I hope will help explain some of the less common words and some of the terminology of haymaking.

Seidr Ddoe - Plethyn

Mae'r haul yn uchel uwchben Rhos y Glasgoed
Peiriannau'n lladd Gorffennaf yn y gwair
Y blyrs pell fel gwenyn haf yn mela
A'r border bach yn llawn o felyn Mair
Hen ŵr het wellt a'i gribyn gyda'r gwrychoedd
A'r cogie bach yn chwarae gyda'r cŵn
A hogie'r picweirch wrth godi'r bls i'r trelar
Yn gochel tynnu t'ranne gyda'u sŵn

Mae'r haul yn is a'r tawch yn las ar Bentyrch
A theulu'r tir yn dirwyn tua thre'
Fe ddaw'r llwyth ola' adre am y diwrnod
A hogle'r hel sydd heno lond y lle
Mae'n tynnu at y bwr' a'r sgwrs yn 'mystyn
Mae tynnu coes y lodes rydd help llaw
Ar ben y bryn mae'r buchod yn diogi
a'r wennol ddweud na ddaw hi byth yn law

Cytgan
Tan y castan mae 'na gysgod, yn y cysgod casgen gln
Yfed seidr yn y gweirdir, mae'r ochneidio'n troi yn wn
O am ha' fel hafau Meifod, seidr ddoe yn troi'n siampn

Offerynnol / Instrumental

Cytgan

Mae'r lleuad garu wedi codi'n belen
A'r nos sy'n gynnes dan ei golau hi
Chwilio am y meillion yn y gweiriau
A chwilio geiriau yn dy lygaid di
Melys fel afal yw awel Dl Mathrafal
A choban nos fel sidan ar y tir
Ond clychau'r bugail sydd ar hyd y clodddie
yn canu nad yw'r haf yn ddigon hir

Cytgan


======================================================================

Nodiadau
Rhos y Glasgoed = topographical feature
Peiriannau'n lladd Gorffennaf lladd gwair = to cut hay
Blyrs = balers (the old-fashioned, "square" bales that can be moved by hand, not the round big bales)
Cribyn = (hay) rake
Cloddie <-- cloddiau (sing. Clawdd) = hedges
Melyn Mair = marigold (Calendula officinalis)
Cogie (cogiau) - Powys dialect form of hogie/hogiau = lads
Picweirch (<-- picwarch) pitchforks
T'ranne (taranau) = thunder
Tawch = haze (heat haze)
Pentyrch = a hill
Hogle'r hel = the scent of the harvest
Bwr' = bwrdd (table)
'Mystyn = ymestyn
Lodes = girl, lass
Buchod = pl. buwch (cows specifically female, as opposed to gwartheg or da cattle)
Castan = chestnut tree(s)
Gln (<-- cln) pleasant, very welcome
Gweirdir <-- gwair + tir (hayfield)
Meifod village in Sir Drefaldwyn/Montgomeryshire, Powys
Lleuad garu lovers' moon. either the first full moon in July or, more likely, the full moon following the first new moon in July
Meillion = clover
Dl Mathrafal = topographical feature
Clychau'r bugail = harebells (Campanula rotundifolia)


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 31 May 13 - 07:54 PM

I'm assuming that you have followed up on the various pointers in this thread. You really should refer to trac-cymru.org of which I was Director until I moved back to Ontario in 2011. The weekend course in the fall is a spectacular way of immersion if you can afford the trip.

Where in Canada are you? The National Festival of Wales is in Toronto over Labour Day; a bit light on trad but I'm doing 2 lectures on trad music so it's a start.

You should also Google Welsh Heritage Week and Cymdeithas Madog for info. CM has a CD of trad songs for Welsh learners and the course will be in St Catharines, Ontario next year.

Sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 31 May 13 - 07:35 PM

And lastly, a bit of a curiosity-A Welsh language "Cajun" band

http://www.cajunsdenbo.co.uk/

Hope some of that helps.


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 31 May 13 - 07:31 PM

Next one Lowri Evans.

http://www.lowrievansofficial.co.uk/dyddanos.htm


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 31 May 13 - 07:28 PM

Hi Jason,

For some reason I can't get more than one link per post so I will post a few on the bounce to get them in.

The first one on is Dan Ar Braz with Elaine Morgan on vocals. She is Welsh and runs Rumney Folk Club with Derek her husband. Most of their stuff is in Breton, but Elaine sings a couple of Welsh language songs with them which must be on iTunes but I cant find them on youtube, but I've posted a link here to give you a flavour. Dan Ar Braz also represented France in The Eurovision Song Contest with Elaine and Karen Matheson on vocals. But don't let that put you off!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3PXoLYIF8


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,Squampton man.
Date: 31 May 13 - 11:23 AM

Ok this appears to be an old thread, but here goes anyway.
I'm trying to find Welsh Language Music Folk/Pop in Canada. My son is very intrigued by Wales and has spent lots of time there. I would like to see if we can listen to Welsh Language music together and maybe this will inspire him/us to learn Welsh together. I find that I get inspired to learn Languages by the music, but it appears I was always looking way beyond my own front door for true inspiration. If ANYONE out there can assist me, or if they can tell me if there is any on itunes I can buy.
Thanks
Jason


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 09:45 AM

Just thought I'd mention that there are some Welsh songs with archive tape recordings on the Welsh National History Museum (St Fagan's Folk Museum as was) site. Here's the English side, and here's the Welsh. (Or you can go to one side and flip to the other using the upper right hand corner link.)

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 08:35 AM

That session hasn't been there for quite a while, Mr Red. Now they're at Tafarn Nos Da on the first Monday of every month, and at the Cayo Arms for the remaining Mondays in the month.

Have had only limited success so far re: the 5/4 tunes. Stephen Rees of the group Crasdant (and formerly of Ar Log) tells me he only knows of 2 examples: Cwyn Mam Yng Nhyfraith (Mother in Law's Complaint) a song which is currently played by our folk orchestra - Y Glerorfa - and another piece that immitates some church bells - which I have somewhere, can't remember where.

I can't imagine that either is what you're looking for. If I get any more feedback I'll let you know.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 06:54 AM

"y Mochyn Du" Sophia Gardens Cardiff
Welsh session (not sure about song but...) - alt Mondays see click here last checked 3 years ago though.


"the Black Pig" since you ask.


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:16 AM

That isn't a whole lot to go on really. If it was a "great many years ago" (can you be more specific) it could have been Mudcat's own Dr Price's "Calennig". Or could have been Aberjaber or ... ?

I'll ask around anyway.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,Seligmanson
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 03:29 PM

By any chance, is there any-one who can clear up a problem for me? Over the last few years I've added a number of fine Welsh tunes to my store, but I feel I'm missing a trick here. I have one Cornish tune in 5/4 time, and when I found it I was reminded that a great many years ago I heard a group play Welsh tunes in 5/4, and that they were beautiful. I think they said that they'd found them in a nineteenth-century collection in the National Library of Wales, and they had a generic name for them, but of course I've forgotten it. Can any-one tell me more about this very rare aspect of Welsh traditional music?


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 02:49 PM

Well, yes - as we mentioned above, it was reissued a couple of years back. What I can't figure out is why there would be 'no liner notes whatever' because there's a good booklet with the Sain reissue.

Odd.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,jpmarmaro
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 12:03 PM

Hello all

One can rejoice, because finally, the wonderful album by Meredydd Evans, with his wife, an octet chorus, harp and chamber orchestra, TRADITIONAL WELSH SONGS, has finally been released on CD!!!

It is available on Amazon.com, released by Essential Media Group (with no discernible catalogue number). The remaster is generally excellent, with but a few aural flaws of minor importance in the final track, Si Hei Lwli (sounding suspiciously like scratches on vinyl, so the transfers may have been made, not from masters, but from a record). There are no liner notes whatever (I was so hoping that they would include the lyrics, some of which I still have not found online), and there is not even full credit to the other artists (Phyllis Kinney (soprano), Mr Evans' wife; Maria Korchinksa (harp); the Tyrfan Octet; and the chamber orchestra conducted by Robert Docker, who also made the exquisite arrangements). Still, I tried repeatedly to transfer the vinyl records to CD, without very good results (and I ended up trying with perhaps half a dozen copies of the LP). Still, snap it up before it goes out of print!

Pob hwyl
John Marmaro


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 02:16 PM

And I did check in the local Welsh book shop - and they have a copy. So if someone really did want one (with booklet!) they can still be found!

Had lunch with Phyllis & Mered today as it happens. A good time was had by all.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,Dave Williams
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 10:28 AM

John,

As Sin says, Mered is out of stock at Sain, but it *is* available on iTunes. The price is $19.95 for (the content of) the 2 CDs which contain 50 songs unfortunately, without the booklet. Just search for Mered at the iTunes store.

Dymuniadau Gorau
Dave Williams


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 04:23 AM

Jack, it was probably "Caneuon Llofft Stabal" - Stable loft songs - a Sain product in co-operation with the National Museum of Wales, which holds the archive tape materials. It was reissued a few years back, I think bundled with the other 'sister' volume of Plygain Carols. Most excellent collection to have. I always point to these traditions as the roots of the Welsh male voice choir (and more interesting to me, personally). Pity no one did similar work in the female tradition ...

sin


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 08:51 PM

A couple of years ago I picked up an LP of a genre I'd never heard of: a Welsh equivalent of the Scottish cornkister or bothy song - songs sung by agricultural workers in temporary seasonal accommodation. The content was much like the Scottsh songs - shitty employers, drink and unplanned pregnancies.

But I can't remember where I've put it, and I haven't got my LP player working again since buying it.

Somebody remind me what this kind of song is called?


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:55 PM

John, that LP and some other material was reissued quite recently by Sain Records as Mered but it looks like it's out of stock. It's very good: 2 CDs and a nice meaty booklet to go with them. Although Sain seems to be out of it at head office, I imagine it can be found at some Welsh book shops.

There is a video interview on the Smithsonian Folklife Festival website at present which is worth looking at. He tells a very interesting story about one of the songs on the CD which was written by a Welsh ex-pat in the 19th Century as an anti-slavery song. There are also audo interviews with both Mered and Phyllis in the Smithsonian archives now (Mered's is in Welsh with outline notes by the interviewer - me.)

Mered is now 88 and Phyllis is 86 (87 this Saturday) and they're going strong. They both have written books which are going to press soon; Phyllis' will be the first english language history of Welsh traditional music since 1935.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,John Marmaro
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 03:24 PM

Hi all

I love Welsh music -- traditional music especially, and folk. I have several Plethyn albums-- they're wonderful. But the album I first fell in love with was Meredydd Evans, Phyllis Kinney, the Tyrfan Octet, with an orchestra conducted by R. Docker and Maria Korchinska on harp. It was issued as Everest Tradition #2078. Has this ever been issued on CD? I have the LP and even have transferred it to CD myself but would love a professionally issued disc. (I have LPs of Mr Evans singing a cappella as well).

Diolch yn fawr a phob hywl
John Marmaro, Florida


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 07:28 AM

Sorry, can't help. It's one I don't have. Do you have a note on who wrote the words? Is it a Myrddin ap Dafydd song?

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,Robin in Devon
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 05:07 AM

Can anyone help me find the words to Seidr Ddoe (as sung by Plethyn)?

It's a beautiful, haunting song and I want to learn it to sing this summer.

Diolch yn fawr,

Robin.


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Fliss
Date: 20 Oct 07 - 05:44 AM

Thanks for the PM Nigel about the thread. I hadnt done a search for it on Mudcat.

cheers
fliss


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Oct 07 - 08:06 PM

"Can y Melinydd" has a thread entire unto itself.
The translation into English was all done here as a combined effort. The English version is as close to a literal translation as we could get, and matches the original both for rhyme scheme, and for scansion.

CHEERS (Hwyl Dda)
Nigel


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Oct 07 - 03:38 PM

sian, it's better to do each song in its own thread, last I knew. It helps with the indexing and searching for them. At least that's what I remember.:-)


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 19 Oct 07 - 12:05 PM

Umm... don't see that it's 'more accurate' or 'complete' although I do see, when I look again, that the version I've linked to has a mistake. It should read, "o dan ei bedwar troed" in the "ebol melyn" verse. You might make a couple of small corrections in the caneuongwerin version; it's "cwpwrdd" not "cwpwr", although you could get away with cwpwr' as that would reflect a habit of cutting words short in everyday speech. It should also read, "A rhwng" rather than "A rwng" as 'rh' doesn't mutate in that situation.

Re: 'complete', this is an example of 'canu penillion' or 'singing verses' so there isn't really a 'complete' version. It's as long as a piece of string. If the verse fits, you can sing it. Hence the variation in printed versions. Print, in fact, has a negative effect on what is actually 'traditional' as it makes us think there is a specific set of verses to these songs. Welsh folk verses and folk tunes were published in separate volumes until the mid 1800s because it was accepted that you were free to choose the verses that fit the tune you liked, or vice versa.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 19 Oct 07 - 10:53 AM

There's a more complete (and accurate?) version of Can Y Melinydd at
http://www.caneuongwerin.co.uk/canymelinydd.html

Fliss, there are lots of great Welsh songs at Caneuon Gwerin, and hymns and Christmas carols at a related site - with midis for a lot of them.
Do you sing in Welsh? It's a great way to practice the language.

Chris in Portland


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 19 Oct 07 - 05:39 AM

I'm 'away' at present so haven't had time to 'Cat very much, but these verses are discussed at some length already on Mudcat, with the final deliberation, and abc tune here . There a number of typos in the Stivell version.

Chris, you're talking about singer-songwriter things, aren't you? Again, it isn't something I can help with.

Re: songs in general, someone remind me what the drill is here. Do we post each song individually as Lyr. Add. or can they be bunged into a single thread?

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Fliss
Date: 19 Oct 07 - 04:39 AM

Can y Melinydd
From Alan Stivell's CD Chemin de Terre (From Celtic Roots)


Mae genni ebol melyn
Yn codi pedair troed
A phedair pedol arian o
Dan es pedwar troed.
Cytgan:

|: Fa di ra di da di do :|
Fa di ra di ra di ren
Fa di ra di ro.

2. Mae genni iar a cheilliog,
A buwch a mochyn tew
A rwng a wraig a minnau,
Wn ei gwneud yn o lew.

Cytgan:

Fe aeth yr iar i, ro dio,
I Arfon draw mewn dyg
A daeth yn ol iw ddi wrnod
Ar Wddfa en e phig.

Cytgan:

I know its about the Miller and a yellow pony.

fliss


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 10:45 AM

Sian et al - I got a reply from Ellen Davies at Sain. I asked her if she would have problems with posting Welsh lyrics to composed songs on Mudcat - she said, "... no I don't see any problem including lyrics on Mudcat if it notes the copyright owner."
If you know of anyone who has typed out Welsh lyrics and would be able to share them here, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Chris


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 05:52 AM

I've checked out Awn i Fethlem (1983) and Wrth y Breseb (1985), both Gwasg Pantycelyn issues, but neither have Mor Bell yn Ol ... probably because both are Rhy Bell yn Ol. OK. Welsh witicism. Couldn't resist. Anyway, I think MByO was later 1980s so ...

Thing with checking with Sain is that they don't hold the rights to the songs in most cases. You have checked with John and Alun so that's OK for their own compositions. In general, most Welsh singers are pretty good at letting people use their work but there are a couple of exceptions who can be (I hear) quite litigatious. (How do you spell that?)

Generally, I fear that I won't be able to help with pop songs or singer/songwriter stuff as I just don't listen to them or own the recordings. And, as you say, they aren't in print and I don't suppose they are really intended to be particularly long-lived. Pity in a few cases ...

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 06:00 PM

Sian - I wrote Ellen Davies at Sain on this. I would not think they would have a problem (fair use, good of the cause, etc.). But I will let you all know what she says.
John ac Alun did not have a problem (they affirmatively said "O'r gorau")
to their lyrics be posted on the Welsh songs website Caneuon Gwerin.
Chris


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 11:37 AM

I'll try to find my Christmas books to see if Mor Bell yn Ol is there. Otherwise it's a matter of taking them down from the recordings, which I'm not terribly good at. Besides which, there are obvious copyright issues as these would be singer-songwriter pieces rather than 'trad' or old enough to be out of copyright.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 09:54 AM

The thread may be getting a bit off the original question, but, thinking about Xmas songs, does anyone have Welsh words to some of the newer Christmas songs, such as Tudur Morgan's Mor Bell Yn O^l? I have the words to Dylan and Neil's Nadolig yn ty^ ni, if anyone would like them.

Woodsie and Sian - The folks at Sain have helped me with Welsh words in the past, but it would be nice to have a Mudcat thread on trading songs in Welsh that are not in printed sources.

Chris


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: woodsie
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 04:32 AM

We have a new member of FolMob who is a Welsh speaker. He has performed songs sung in both Welsh and English. His name is Sion (pronounced Shawn). I will tell him about this thread.


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 04:26 AM

Nice selection, Chris. Pity you weren't here on 3 November - we're running a Plygain workshop.

Re: Caneuon Ffydd, there are just two versions - one 'Old Notation' and the other 'Tonic Sol-ffa'. I have the Old Notation and it has no ready-made guitar chords (as you probably know). I presume it is likewise for the Sol-ffa. I don't think any of the standard hymnals have chords so it's a matter of working them out from the notation I guess.

BTW - do you have the re-issue of Caneuon Traddodiadol y Cymry (Traditional Songs of the Welsh)? Another Cyhoeddiadau Gwynn book that came out last year. Very handy collection.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 07:13 PM

Sian - besides Ar Gyfer, we're doing Henffych Iti, Baban Sanctaidd, and Beth Yw'r Golau Mawr a Glan -- assuming we practice enough for all three!! I have Caneuon Ffydd - so I do Ganwyd Iesu, which is a nice sing-along. You wouldn't happen to have (or know where I might get) guitar chords for other carols in Caneuon Ffydd?
Never too early to start working on Christmas songs, although I usually wait 'til the last moment.
Chris


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 06:12 PM

Yikes. I never noticed the English words. They're pretty dire. Stick to the Welsh, yeh?

I've got Hen Garolau too. You might also get the new collection published by Cwmni Gwynn last Christmas; excellent collection.

Re: Mentra Gwen, just to be pedantic 'Mentra Gwen' is a measure so (strictly speaking) they're both 'a' Mentra Gwen melody. There's some stuff about it on the 'Cat somewhere, all tied up with other songs on the same measure, like "Admiral Benbow" and "Captain Kidd". Apparently it was a favourite measure of the military in the 1600s.

I have some English words which are pretty decent to "Roedd yn y Wlad Honno" if you want to expand your repertoire with another Plygain carol.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 04:13 PM

Thanks for the ideas - hoping to find someone in Dolgellau who we can hire to do some evening driving. I met the Brownings in Chicago two years ago, so I'm sure they will help if they can. A bit early to do a lot of specific planning, but I'm trying to see what's going on this October to get some ideas.

Sian - We're using the Hen Garolau Cymru book, which has the old, Mentra Gwen melody, but thanks for the other version - we might like using those English words.

Thanks again, Chris


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 02:28 PM

Yes, Llanfair. The group I'm talking about is the Tune Club that Gary Northeast runs (details on the trac site, above). It isn't a Welsh speaking group. Gary teaches (I think) one tune a night. A real mix of abilities and instruments.

There's a good session (Friday night I think) in the Nelson in Bangor. It started out there, then had to relocate to Menai Bridge for a while, but I hear it's back in the Nelson now. Welsh once a month and the rest is mixed. I think there are various things happening in Caernarfon as well, some at Galeri (the arts centre) but I don't have any details. Neil and Meg Browning are involved (the groups, Never Mind the Box, Cajuns Dembo, et al)

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Llanfair
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 01:25 PM

Are you talking about the Dolanog near us, Sian? I know there's a Welsh singing group there, but my lack of Welsh language has made me reluctant to go.

From Dolgellau, my family comes from there, too, you will find going south to the places Sian has mentioned probably more productive than north, Chris in Portland.

Beware Aberystwyth!!! I can never find my way out of there by car!!!So I go by train instead!!


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 12:16 PM

I understand that Ty Siamas has a session every other Wednesday and it's doing so well they're thinking about doing it weekly. There are also things happening in Machynlleth, and there might be the occasional opportunity in the Harlech area as well. The Llanberis stuff (fiddle) might not be too far flung, although the drive might be a bit 'hairy' in the dark if you're not attuned to mountain driving. Aberystwyth too has some 'challenging' sections of road. As does Dolannog, although all three are 'do-able' for an evening out. Nearer the time, maybe we could put you in touch with some 'locals' who would meet up with you for a private session.

Which tune are you using for Ar Gyfer Heddiw Bore? This one? Or the older one made famous by Parti Fronheulog? I like them both very much.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 11:23 AM

Thanks for the comments - my grandparents came from Dollgellau - great-grandpa ran a pub across from where Ty Siamas is now. To take advantage of the music and location, we plan to use Dolgellau as a base and spend at least 5 days there and then go further north for as long as our shrinking dollars can last. The event listings for this October are really great - even old friends John Prine and Buddy Mondlock from Chicago!!
But it is hard to tell which towns listed are in the north. Any suggestions for a town along the north coast with a folk music scene that we could use as a second base? Lots of great places to stay for the scenery, but would also like to find a music tie-in.
Sian, I'll keep a look-out for your event and hope we can make that too.
Diolch eto, Chris
ps I'm doing Pererin Wyf at the Welsh church here on Sunday, and also that and other Welsh songs for a Welsh Society Xmas program. We're also working on Ar Gyfer Heddiw'r Bore for our Lessons and Carols service. So no skimping on yr heniaith yn Portland!


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 09:44 AM

I'll look forward to your conference.

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 09:06 AM

That should, of cousre, be Higher Kinnerton.Sorry.


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 09:04 AM

Sian.west Walwes:
don't you think you might be getting a little hung up on the "pan-Celtic" thing?

"Chris, we'll be organizing a one-day conference - possibly in Machynlleth and probably a Saturday in October - next year. It'll be set up to compare and discuss discovering historic music manuscripts and republishing them for use today. Cass Meurig will be the Welsh speaker and Mike O'Connor ("Crowthercref" on Mudcat) will come from Cornwall. We're looking for someone from Brittany as well. It will be part academic and part 'practical' and should be interesting."

I wouldn't fault your choice of speakers as far as they go, but how about the considerable experience in matters of fiddle MSS just over the border in England. The Hughes and Owen MSS from the Whitchurch area, for example, extremely interesting, and Whitchurch is all of two miles from Wales. And the surnames Hughes and Owen are suggestive as well. I think if you are looking at fiddle tunes from the 1800ish period, for example, as Cass Meurig has, for instance: I think the cultural links were stronger between Wrexham and Oswestry than they were between Wrexham and Brittany, or Wrexham and Truro. research is better directed at what is, or what was, rather than what you vaguely hope might have been. Of course there are linguistic connections between Wales, Cornwall and Brittany, we all know that. There are also, to state the blindingly obvious, connections acroos the English/Welsh border.Don't forget that Llanyblodwel and Trefonen or in England, but Higehr Kinnerton and Queensferry are in Wales.
   All I am saying is, if you are interested in sharing experience of the use of traditional tune MSS, take a glance to your east.The border is quite porous to music, and many of cross it regularly without to much discomfort.

"


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: GUEST,Wildrose-Wally
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 07:02 AM

Hi,

Thank you all, I've found the song and the CD it is on.

The order will be shipped from Sain records tomorrow.

Looking forward to hearing it, as I've never heard Welsh music before.

Have a great day.

Walter


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 04:45 AM

Chris, we'll be organizing a one-day conference - possibly in Machynlleth and probably a Saturday in October - next year. It'll be set up to compare and discuss discovering historic music manuscripts and republishing them for use today. Cass Meurig will be the Welsh speaker and Mike O'Connor ("Crowthercref" on Mudcat) will come from Cornwall. We're looking for someone from Brittany as well. It will be part academic and part 'practical' and should be interesting.

As Splotty pointed out, there's a list of sessions on the trac website. Sessions being what they are, it isn't easy to say that they'll be in the same place/time by Oct 2008 but I'm sure there will be something of interest somewhere. (And you couldn't have said that 10 years ago; the scene has 'revived' considerably.) Another possibility is sitting in on rehearsals of folk dance teams.

BTW, I took a photo of the side street off Eldon Square, Dolgellau, for you on my mobile camera ... but now I don't know how to get it from there! It's a level of technology which avoids my comprehension ...

sian


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Llanfair
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 04:37 AM

Although Manchester born, I have lived here in Mid-Wales for 10 years. 40% of the population are Welsh speaking and, although I went to night school for two years, I failed to become fluent, and only understand a little, enough to know that people talking in shops aren't being rude about me, but discussing the weather!

I'm close to the border, here, and on the tourist route from Birmingham to the coast. I get to hear very little welsh folk music, as country and western is the most popular. I love the choral singing, and can hear the chapel congregation from my garden on a Sunday.

There's not a lot of choir singing in the pubs, because most choirs have copyrighted their arrangements, and don't do them for fun.

We do, however, have a session every Saturday afternoon in Welshpool market hall, mostly english at the moment, but Welsh very welcome.


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Subject: RE: Welsh language folk music
From: Mick Tems
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 04:15 AM

It's surprising that nobody - apart from you, Chris - has mentioned Ty Siamas in Dolgellau, which, after 10 years of campaigning, has won 1 million of Euromoney in its bid to become the Wales national folk centre. Ty Siamas opened this year and has a website. The committee has worked to realise this dream - hats off to them!


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