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BS: Where have all the wines gone?

CarolC 21 Dec 03 - 01:46 PM
pdq 21 Dec 03 - 02:24 PM
CarolC 21 Dec 03 - 02:29 PM
Ebbie 21 Dec 03 - 02:31 PM
Uncle_DaveO 21 Dec 03 - 02:36 PM
Peg 21 Dec 03 - 02:37 PM
pdq 21 Dec 03 - 02:39 PM
brid widder 21 Dec 03 - 02:45 PM
mack/misophist 21 Dec 03 - 02:51 PM
pdq 21 Dec 03 - 02:58 PM
Raedwulf 21 Dec 03 - 03:30 PM
jimmyt 21 Dec 03 - 03:49 PM
The Fooles Troupe 21 Dec 03 - 04:16 PM
Peg 21 Dec 03 - 04:22 PM
Donuel 21 Dec 03 - 05:31 PM
Emma B 21 Dec 03 - 06:56 PM
Dave Bryant 22 Dec 03 - 06:20 AM
CarolC 22 Dec 03 - 12:37 PM
MarkS 22 Dec 03 - 01:00 PM
Stilly River Sage 22 Dec 03 - 02:06 PM
jimmyt 22 Dec 03 - 03:50 PM
Rapparee 22 Dec 03 - 04:04 PM
LilyFestre 22 Dec 03 - 09:23 PM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Dec 03 - 09:27 PM
Padre 22 Dec 03 - 10:09 PM
pdq 22 Dec 03 - 10:18 PM
jimmyt 22 Dec 03 - 10:44 PM
jimmyt 22 Dec 03 - 10:45 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 22 Dec 03 - 11:39 PM
Peace 22 Dec 03 - 11:52 PM
Kim C 23 Dec 03 - 11:59 AM
Emma B 23 Dec 03 - 02:01 PM
Peg 23 Dec 03 - 02:22 PM
Uncle_DaveO 23 Dec 03 - 04:40 PM
Peace 23 Dec 03 - 05:26 PM
Emma B 23 Dec 03 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,Ed 23 Dec 03 - 06:22 PM
Emma B 23 Dec 03 - 06:30 PM
GUEST,Ed 23 Dec 03 - 06:35 PM
Charley Noble 23 Dec 03 - 07:45 PM
pdq 24 Dec 03 - 06:20 AM
GUEST,jaze 24 Dec 03 - 10:26 AM
Rapparee 24 Dec 03 - 01:10 PM
Peace 26 Dec 03 - 02:02 PM
Stilly River Sage 26 Dec 03 - 02:48 PM
CarolC 28 Dec 03 - 12:29 PM
GUEST,Jaze 28 Dec 03 - 08:57 PM
Linda Kelly 29 Dec 03 - 12:21 PM
Peg 29 Dec 03 - 01:59 PM
Rapparee 29 Dec 03 - 02:57 PM
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Subject: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 01:46 PM

I guess I was a bit of a freak when I was in high school (back in the early 1970s), but my friends and I used to like to drink wine for the taste rather than to get high.

I remember some really great wines from those days, none of which I can find anywhere these days:

White Niagra
Pink Niagra
Lake Niagra
Catawba and Pink Catawba
Sauterne

The brands I remember the best were Great Western (not the one in the UK; I believe this one was a US company that pre-dated the UK one), and Taylor.

Also, about fifteen years ago, I remember that there was a red wine called Lambrusco, a really fun little, slightly sparkling, red wine. That one is still available, but I can only find one brand of it... Riunite.

It seems like, in the "old days" of the 1970s and maybe the '80s, there were a lot more varieties readily available. These days, it seems like everywhere you go, mostly all you see are Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Chardonnay, Shiraz, and maybe three or four others. If you look very carefully, you can sometimes find a Riesling, or some of the other fruity German wines, like Liebfraumilch, Zeller Swarz Katz, and Blue Nun (I remember these were popular in the late 1970s).

So what's the deal? Is there some kind of Facsist wine conspiracy or something? Anybody know where to find the lost varieties? Those Niagra grape wines were really nice.

P.S. Pardon my spelling if I got any of the names wrong. I have a wicked headach and I don't feel like looking them up just now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: pdq
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:24 PM

Maybe it's a regional thing. On the West coast we drank Boone's Farm, Ripple, Boone's Farm- strawberry, as well as half-gallon types like Gallo, Delicato and Italian Swiss Colony. Pass the jug, and no one was worried about getting someone elses germs. That stuff with corks in it was for snobs and people who went to the Country Club for dinner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:29 PM

pdq, we had those where I lived too, but those wines were for the purpost of getting drunk. Taste wasn't really a consideration with those wines ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:31 PM

Sounds like most - or all- of those wines were fairly sweet. Perhaps more people have caught on that dry wine tastes better?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:36 PM

This won't exactly answer your question(s), but may clear up some of it.

The "pink Niagra" (Niagara?) et al I assume were brands (I'm assuming US), and like other brands, when they lose favor and no longer make enough money, they are abandoned by their producers.

"Sauterne" is in the US a sort of generic word, referring to the French "sauternes" (note the s on the end), a wonderful Bourdeaux dessert wine. The US "sauterne", though it uses a form of the French word, is a relatively dry wine rather than a dessert wine, and is nothing like its namesake. I think that changing public tastes in the US have put paid to "sauterne" also--and good riddance, say I.   I'm not sure whether the French "sauternes" is a French place name, like Burgundy, Bourdeaux, and so forth, but if so it may be considered later when I talk about place-named foreign wines.

Zeller Schwartze Katz (Cellar Black Cat) is a German brand name, as is Blue Nun(which is a liebfraumilch). I'm sure they are still available, and as always, only from Germany.

However, names like Bourdeaux, Burgundy, Champagne, (and Sauternes?) and Chablis, from France, and Soave and Chianti from Italy, are another kettle of fish. These are place-of-origin names, and the EU has cracked down on their use for wines not from those areas. That's binding only in the EU, but a number of non-EU countries are honoring it, and the EU are pressuring the US to follow that rule, and it looks like that's what's going to happen--not only with wine, but with other consumables like cheese, and so there may soon be no American Parmesan, Cheddar, and a number of other cheeses with foreign place names.

That's why we see so many American wines with grape-varietal names these days. I applaud that for wines, but I have reservations about applying it to cheeses. But then my druthers are hardly controlling, are they?

I hope this (while it doesn't quite answer all your questions) has been helpful.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Peg
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:37 PM

You can still get plenty of the Lake   Niagara wines in New York state; that winery is going strong! When I go there I   try to pick up NY state produced white wines; they are grapey and fruity, a lot like Reislings. There is a winery near Chatauqua (Johnson Estates) that has Chatauqua blush that is fabulous...as well as many other very good wines...


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: pdq
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:39 PM

No, the people became older and snootier. I remember buying PP&M's "Reunion " record. They are sitting at a table, dressed in suits and such, drinking a fancy wine and eating Brie. Working class heroes? Woodie's children? Right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: brid widder
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:45 PM

the convent doctor goes to see the Mother superior... mother we've got a case of syphillis in the convent.... thank God for that say's the senior nun... I'm really sick of Chardonnay;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:51 PM

California used to have Red Mountain table wine from Gallo; the absolute best table grade red in the world. The cheapest, too. They just stopped making it. Family politics may have been involved. It couldn't be beat - half a gallon of good wine for under US$5.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: pdq
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:58 PM

Absolutely right. The larger wineries in California would make as much "varietal" wine as they could sell, then excess grapes went into the same hopper as "cheap" wine. Friends and I had several blind tasting contests and some Gallo and Italian Swiss colony "bulk" was preferred to the "good stuff".


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 03:30 PM

DaveO - excellent & informative post! What I add is because Sauternes is a particular favourite of mine... *g*

Sauternes for a little more info about Sauternes, which is defintely a sub-regional name i.e. it's a sub-set of Bordeaux whites... I believe that there have been problems with Sauternes production (i.e. a reduction in the grape harvest) over the last few years.

Certainly as little as 5 years ago you could get a bottle of Sauternes for @£12 in the UK. This year, I'm seeing £12 for a half bottle. QED.

In general, all I'll say about wine is: buy it, try it, remember it if you like it; & ignore the price at all times! There is an immense amount of snobbery in the wine world, & no reason to suppose that, for the average palate, a £30/$50 bottle is any better than a £3/$5 bottle!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: jimmyt
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 03:49 PM

I started drinking wine on Johnsons estate Liebframilch as well as Liebestrophkin, eventually switched to German Rieslings like Piesporter, and lots of Kabannet varieties, some sweeter some drier.

Eventually I think many people's tastes change to a crisper drier wine than the Rieslings and I guess most have moved on to Chardonney and Pinot Grigio. So it is just economics. When the demand increases for Chardonney and decreases for Riesling and there are only so many feet of space on the store shelves, the Rieslings have to go. As this happens it makes the growers plant different varieties of grape rather than the niagara and riesling grapes.

10 years ago everyone was drinking white Zin and now that has seemed to run its course in favor of less sweet products as well. I naver though I would develop a taste for reds like Merlot and Cabarnet but it has happened.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 04:16 PM

I remember when Stones Green Ginger Wine was about 95c Aus a bottle - now it's over 10 times that price...

There was an ABC Radio doco yesterday about Aussie wine costing about $4-5 a bottle to make under contract. One grower was saying that if they sell a bottle for $10-12 they have to make $1-2 each to stay in business - but some Supermarket chains are now doing "loss-leaders" of 2 for the price of 1 - they must have acquired a lot of excess stock from defunt wineries - which is now ripping the heart out of the Aussie wine industry.

The previous comments about all wine being of a higher quality and Eu branding decisions are also true.

If you want a real sweet wine - but it's very hard to get and expensive because of the difficulty in making enough of it - try "Ice Wine" - under various names. The grapes are left to freeze on the vine, then picked, and made into wine. The freezing concentrates the sugar.

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Peg
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 04:22 PM

Ice wine...ewwwwww....sorry, this is right up there with triple bock for "what were they thinking?"

Those "Liebes" wines from Johnson;   great stuff! They also do a spicy red rioja, I think that is outta this world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 05:31 PM

The Niagara grape has a very unique flavor. As you might expect it tastes just like the wine. There was once even a carbonated soft drink that used it called Pommac. It was like champagne soda.

The area of Niagara however is HORRIBLY polluted. I was one of the very few civilians to tour their hazardous waste site that drains into the Niagara falls basin via ground water. Love canal is open again for habitation thanks to changing the numbers that define "hazardous".

One has to go a ~ hundred miles south and 50 miles east to get unpolluted Niagara grapes. The Erie shore used to be prime but near Aor Valley they put in what is called a Demonstration Project that is a fancy name for nuclear radiation land fill. The radiation demonstrated it was able to flow all the way to Lake Erie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Emma B
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 06:56 PM

The best ice wein I have tasted actually came from Canada (I suppose there's no shortage of frost there) As a 'pudding wine' it is as good as a Sauternes anyday and lovely with a really ripe mature Stilton (sorry wrong thread - I think that was the cheese course one)
There are excellent (and relatively inexpensive) varietal wines available (at least over here) besides the ubiqitous cabernets/chardonnays. My own favourite is the Burgundian Pinot Noir (also makes excellent fizz) but for a change try the lesser known Carignan - excellent with Mediterranean food.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 06:20 AM

Over here we can buy a Rumanian Pinot Noir for about £3 bottle (we pay much less on our french booze-cruises), which is beautifully rich and fruity and compares favorably with my memories of fine Burgandys like "Nuits St George" from the days when I could afford them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 12:37 PM

Wow. Some very interesting ideas here. Thanks!

The Niagra wines I used to drink weren't brands, but varieties that were put out by a couple of different companies, if I remember correctly. I think the White and Pink Niagras were put out by Great Western, and I think the Lake Niagra was put out by Taylor. I'm not sure who made the Catawbas, but maybe both companies did.

Ice wine is good if you use it correctly. It woud be great over ice cream, and if you sip it very slowly, it goes with other desserts as well. Or it can serve as a dessert all by itself. Some late harvest wines are good like that, too.

Ebbie, I find that there are some very interesting dry wines, especially if you're having them with food, but I can't agree that fruity and sweet wines don't have their uses. But maybe you can tell me what, particularly, you prefer about dry wines.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: MarkS
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 01:00 PM

Carol - Try a google search for wineries, Finger Lakes Region, New York. I know there are LOTS of small family owned wineries in that area and the varieties you posted are still made there. I bet that many of them have samplers and will deliver by post or by UPS
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 02:06 PM

As you can imagine, Texas, like California, is large enough to have some wines that are made to be sold only in Texas. There are some very nice ones available at very good prices.

I pick up a bottle of the Chateau Ste. Michelle Johanesburg Reisling every so often. It is one of many nice wines from Washington State.

Depending on the time of the month (how much of the paycheck is left when I go shopping), there are some nice Cabernets that can be purchased from $4 to $10 US. Chardonay is a little bit higher.

There was a story on NPR several months ago that talked about the glut of wine on the market these days bringing prices way down, especially French wines. Ever since the Bush flap over the UN and France and Iraq I try to regularly buy French wine, for solidarity purposes among other reasons. :)

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: jimmyt
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 03:50 PM

SRS   I buy French wines but because they tase mighty fine! Even dry french whites don't have that oaky taste that lots of people find harsh.

Carol, I am sure there are tons of places in the Niagara region that can provide you with all the sweet wines you can take but as I remember, you are here in Georgia, arent you? Unfortunately you can't receive alcohol through the mail here legally. I just bought a case of Italian merlot and had it shipped to family in Ohio who were coming down for Thanksgiving. Maybe Alabama is a state you could ship to, I haven't checked it out, but if so, maybe you could ship it to friends or family in Alabama?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 04:04 PM

The last wine I bought came from Idaho. There appears to be wineries in all the states these days (although I'm not certain of Alaska and Hawaii). Missouri produces some very nice sweet wines (try Hermanhoff and Stone Ridge, especially Hermanhoff's "Hunter's Red"). There are some concords produced in Nauvoo, Illinois that might stand the test, too. Michigan also has some (I miss "Molly Pitcher Cannon Number 12").

Do they still make Ripple? My brother once threw a case of it into the Potomac because he considered it undrinkable (and he was drunk at the time!) and was lucky the EPA didn't bust him for water pollution.

Maybe y'all are looking in too high-class stores....


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 09:23 PM

Just this past year I was invited on a wine tasting tour....I thought it was going to be a stuffy event and really had no desire to go other than to spend some time with my friends. My husband and I went, reconnected with my college roommate (as though not a day had passed) and had a GREAT time!!! We went to several of the wineries in upstate NY around the Finger Lakes. Some of our favorites are Fulkerson's Matinee, Pink Catawba from Bagley's/Poplar Ridge, RedCat from Hazlitt's.....yep...lots of great wine going on around here! Plenty of activities to faciliate trying of new wines as well...next month is the Wine on Ice event where several wineries get together at a local hockey rink for a day or two of tastings!!!! We have tickets to go with my old roomie who said she wouldn't go without me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   *Big smile*

All this talk about wine...I think I shall go pour myself a glass! Cheers!

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 09:27 PM

Didn't someone once say "Wine is the Joy of Life"?

If they didn't, I will!

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Padre
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 10:09 PM

In Virginia, there is/was (haven't seen it recently) a wine made from the Scuppernog grape - it had the name 'Mother ' in it somewhere. A fairly sweet wine, but when chilled was pretty refreshing. Anybody got a clue about it?

Padre (who spent 3 years drinking Frankenwine in the Wurzburg area)


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: pdq
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 10:18 PM

There is a reference to "Scuppernong Wine" in a song by Doc Watson, the album (CD) is "Lonesome Road".


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: jimmyt
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 10:44 PM

we have a similar wine in Georgia called Muscidine wine made by Chateau Elan near Atlanta. Padre, Is the Frankinwein in thous funny shaped fat bottles? I have had that in Germany a few years ago   It was delicious!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: jimmyt
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 10:45 PM

I meant to say Scuppernong wine is very similar to Muscadine wine! The wine is affecting my typing again!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 11:39 PM

Muscadines are the naturally occuring wild grapes of the Southeastern U.S. We have thousands of wild Muscadine vines on our property. When European settlers couldn't get the wine and table grape varieties they were familiar with to grow in the south's humid environment, they began experimenting with selectively breeding the native Muscadines. Scuppernongs are a named variety of Muscadine and are, by far, the most common and popular variety. Scuppernongs are about ten times the size of their wild native forbears and much tastier.

BTW, wild Muscadines are sometimes known as "Fox Grapes" (from Aesop's fable about the fox and the sour grapes) because their vines climb into trees and many of the grapes are well out of reach.

BTW again, over the years, varieties of European grapes that will tolerate high humidity have been developed. There is an active winery about an hour east of where I live in the Florida Panhandle and they make several varieties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Peace
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 11:52 PM

About a dozen of us (musicians, song writers, the usual suspects) got on the outside of some stuff called "St. George's". Jaysus, did we find out what killed the dragon. We all got posioned. One of the guys fell asleep--after puking--with his head still in the bowl. Someone who had to go real bad peed on him before he realized what he was doin'. He finished, anyway. We all had to work the next night and everyone had the shakes. Finger pickers were getting their fingers stuck in strings, flat pickers kept dropping their picks, the drummer couldn't make a rim shot to save his life, and one of the bass players kept making noises that sounded very strange, something like a cross between squeeks and squeals. He was doin' that with his voice. A folkie had had his hand stepped on by someone wearing riding boots, and he was damn near in tears every time he had to play anything more complicated than an A chord. He broke a string on stage and had to get someone from the audience to replace it for him. We couldn't help because we were all shaking too badly to get the string through the hole. Two of us barfed between sets. Stay away from that stuff. It has probably tripled in price. I don't doubt it's up to about $6.00 a gallon by now. That's about all I remember. Longest two days of my life. That was in about 1970. I've since moved up to muscatel. Much better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 11:59 AM

I am one of those people who will drink wine because It Tastes Good. I'm not a snob about it. I have had expensive wine, and inexpensive wine, and really, folks, There Ain't Much Difference. There are a lot of good wines to be had for less than $20 a bottle, some for less than $10. I think the last bottle of Black Cat I bought was only $7.99 here in Tennessee, where we have an outrageous liquor tax.

Australian wines are good. Chilean wines are good. And don't knock the ol' California table wines, either.

Mister is making some wine these days. He's done very well with the beer --- we'll see what happens. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 02:01 PM

For someone weaned on the wines of Macon (well it was our twin town) this has been an education and driven me back to Hugh Johnsons World Atlas of Wine where all the varieties and areas mentioned above are listed - fascinating - a virtual tour of vinyards
Strongly scented wines (such as those using American varities of grapes such as Concord and Isabella) are decribed as 'foxy' - although I've never heard that it was derived from Aesop. I suspect that they would taste fairly strange to a European palate; the most I can cope with is an Alsace Tokay (Pinot Gris) which is only slightly off-dry but does have a very slight foxiness.
Vive la difference

Let us drink and be merry, dance joke and rejoice
With claret and sherry, theorbo and voice 17th century


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Peg
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 02:22 PM

Alsace region wines are very nice; especially the whites (reisling, gewurztraminer, etc.). I agree that expensive does not always equal better. Some moderately priced wines are lovely. You can't beat Trader Joe's merlot for $3.29 a bottle! Yellowtail, Jacob's, lots of good inexpensive brands out there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 04:40 PM

This being the Christmas season, I thought I'd throw in a little Biblical (although non-Christmas) quote, from St. Paul. In one of his Epistles to the _______s, he said:

Drink no longer water, but take a little wine, for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmity."

Just thought I'd raise the level of discussion here!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 05:26 PM

I Timothy 5:23

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Like I knew that, huh? The internet is amazing. Someone once said that if ya gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, eventually they would write "The Complete Works of Shakespeare." The internet proves that's not true.

Yeah, but Jesus went around turning water into wine at the wedding, huh, so it musta been like OK, ay?

Sorry, Dave, I was trying to lower the level a little, and I think that last sentence does it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 06:06 PM

Hey all you folks across the water, just found this

For the richest and best
Is the wine of the West,
That flows by the Beautiful River
Whose sweet perfume
Fills all the room With a benison on the giver....

There grows no wine
By the haunted Rhine,
By Danube or Guadalquiver,
Nor an island or cape,
That bears such a grape
As grows by the Beautiful River.

Longfellow
"Catawba Wine"


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 06:22 PM

Or see this page, Brucie, for a different take...


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 06:30 PM

And here was I assuming (and acting on advice) that it was a simple medical reccommendation

Drink a glass of wine after your soup, and you steal a rouble from the doctor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 06:35 PM

here was I assuming that it was a simple medical recommendation

Me too, Emma... But that's the web for you


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 07:45 PM

From Richard Farina's "Children of Darkness" comes the verse:

It's once I was free to go roaming in
The wind of the springtime mind
It's once the clouds I sailed upon
Were SWEET AS LILAC WINE;
So why are the breezes of summer, dear
Enlaced with a grim design?

We tried making lilac wine one summer, using our tried and true dandelion wine recipee. God, was it awful!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: pdq
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 06:20 AM

brusie...your contention that the bottle of St. George wine was made in St. George

Utah by Mormons is clearly not correct. Research has shown that, in the early 70's,

this wine was regularly brought in from Argentina in the bilge of the freighter El Cid                     

in who's cargo hold was tons of bola tries, destined for the bola-tie-starved millions in

Arizonia. The wine was unloaded in the docks of San Pedro by Rococo and Sons LTD.

From there it went by tanker truck to the bottling plant behind "Trini" Cortez Esso Station

in Van Nuys where the colorful " proud to be an American" label was afixed. Distribution

was done by the Katchaturian Brothers out of Lodi. One of the brothers, "Chicken", was

later convicted of lewd and indecent acts with vegetables and sent away for rehabilitation

to the Atascadero Home for the Terminally Bewildered. I hope this clears things up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 10:26 AM

I don't care how cheap it is or if it has a screw top- I really like Lambrusco. Riunite is the only brand I've ever seen. Is there another available? Also does anyone remember Mateus? We used to drink that back in college then use the bottle as a candle holder. Used to be common in certain circles to see Matues bottles with wax melted down the sides.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 01:10 PM

*I* have a bottle of scuppernong from Mother's Vineyard!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 02:02 PM

Hey, pdq, LMAO. Thanks for that. Hope you had a great Christmas. BM


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 02:48 PM

Back in my Forest Service employment days (we were all working our way through college) Cribari was the gallon of choice. Papa Cribari was much abused as stories were told about the scion of that vinyard as the bottle was passed around.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 12:29 PM

I found some Taylor wines in, of all places, my father and stepmother's kitchen cabinet. And one of those wines was a Port, which seems to be another difficult to find wine these days.

Jaze, here's a website with some information about Lambrusco: http://italianfood.about.com/library/weekly/aa042398.htm

jimmyt, we're in Alabama now, so maybe I can have them shipped.

I've decided that I like white Zinfandel, but not the kinds with the fruit flavoring, and I'm looking forward to trying some Scuppernong and Muscatel wines.

Thanks for the posts, everybody. I'm enjoying this thread a lot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 08:57 PM

Thanks,Carol. That site was interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 12:21 PM

Brown Brothers Shiraz-hellish expensive but its Christmas puddings old tobacco blackberies and cherries all in one. Don't like sparkly stuff and Astralian Chardonnay isn't what it was -there are some nice portugese whites arounds, bu I still like a glass of Rose D'Anjou now and again....


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Peg
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 01:59 PM

Lambrusco is just lovely; a nice soft red. Why, I may go buy a bottle today!
Mateus was a favorite of the college days though I was more of a beer drinker or drinker of "girl drinks" then...

Had some nice New York State Riesling (Dr. Konstantin Frank) over the holidays...did not get a chance to bring any back with me though...


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Subject: RE: BS: Where have all the wines gone?
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 02:57 PM

I also have a bottle of Arches wine, made in Utah from grapes grown in Idaho. Huh?? Of course, I've also drunk Cork Cream Sherry, made in Ireland from must imported from Someplace Else.

My brothers make wine, when they feel the urge to do so. Our family label is "La Bonne Merde" -- the last batch was so dry that it caused a drought. They've also made wine from tomatoes (foamed all over the table) and from water (hey, if Jesus can do it...).


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