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BS: ??? ending of Return Of The King???

McGrath of Harlow 17 Dec 03 - 12:06 PM
Art Thieme 17 Dec 03 - 12:33 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 17 Dec 03 - 01:43 PM
Peter T. 17 Dec 03 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 17 Dec 03 - 11:06 PM
Little Hawk 17 Dec 03 - 11:21 PM
GUEST,Cluin 18 Dec 03 - 06:46 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: ??? ending of Return Of The King???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 12:06 PM

"...the dreary prose style" means "I personally find it dreary" - which is fine, But it also implies "and those who do not, such as Uncle Dave, aren't really up to making judgements about literature", which is less so.

However I agree that "...by the dynamic of the tale, (the final struggle) should happen in the Shire, with everyone's back against the wall." Which is why removing the Scouring of the Shire (which achieves that) from the film version (which I haven't seen yet) feels like it must be a bad mistake.

....

Quite what gargoyle is on about there is puzzling. As threads go, this one is keeping on line remarkably consistently. I don't think there's a single post which isn't about the Lord of the Rings. (Well, I'm not going through with a toothcomb to check that - but certainly not many.) Perhaps this is a case of gargoyle in ironic mode?


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Subject: RE: BS: ??? ending of Return Of The King???
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 12:33 PM

McGrath, yes, that's what I was striving to say with the nonsense I wrote. ;-)

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: ??? ending of Return Of The King???
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 01:43 PM

Saw it last night... well... really very early this morning...

I don't have any problem with omitting the Scouring, but I do have a problem with the film's failure to have any closure at all for the Saruman character. Jackson leaves Saruman in Isengard under the watch of the Ents and that's the last that's said of the matter. In the book, that decision was a mistake. In the movie it bears no consequences. Saruman is too important a character for his fate to be so open-ended.

In having Grima kill Saruman, Tolkien's point is that those who gain power by manipulating others will eventually abuse those they manipulate to the point of having the abused strike back and destroy them. In leaving Saruman's fate in limbo, Jackson has ignored this theme. He should still have had Grima kill Saruman, whether he included the Scouring in the story or not. Such a killing taking place in Isengard itself would not be inappropriate.   

Other than that, the movie was superb. The "aerial" shots of Minas Tirith alone are worth the price of admission. And the orcs are even uglier than in the other two movies.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: BS: ??? ending of Return Of The King???
From: Peter T.
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 01:45 PM

Dreary, plodding. It is a pretty good critical rule of thumb that anything that takes itself seriously as an epic creates its own language in the telling -- Tolkein cheats on this by creating a clutch of separate mock-languages, etc., but it is an add on to the epic. His own prose is not very interesting. It is sort of Edwardian high-style, clunky. One would think that someone so saturated in medieval poetry would write beautifully, but for some reason all that stuff is handed off into the mock-languages. You don't read LOTR for the style, but for the story. Every once in a long while, his prose begins to match the content (some of the battles are well described).

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: ??? ending of Return Of The King???
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 11:06 PM

And...the singing?

Any comment? Personally, I found the sound-track and screen choreography to be the catalyst that created the tears.....particulary 15-25 minutes to the denoument.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Oh...what fools these mortals be.


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Subject: RE: BS: ??? ending of Return Of The King???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 11:21 PM

Your yellow font is your most annoying characteristic, Gargoyle, but it's easily revealed by sweeping the mouse across it and selecting the text! Ahh...(sigh of relief)

I intend to tell everyone about it too. :-) Saves on the eyestrain.

Peter, the only thing about you that I cannot fathom is your lack of appreciation for Tolkien's writing! It's perplexing.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: ??? ending of Return Of The King???
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 06:46 AM

Either that or a matter of personal taste, LH. I find it appeals to mine.

Going to see it tonight. Can't wait.


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