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BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupation

GUEST,guest From NW 29 Nov 03 - 03:56 AM
kendall 29 Nov 03 - 07:21 AM
InOBU 29 Nov 03 - 08:18 AM
Alaska Mike 29 Nov 03 - 09:30 AM
Little Hawk 29 Nov 03 - 09:44 AM
GUEST 29 Nov 03 - 09:48 AM
Bobert 29 Nov 03 - 10:02 AM
GUEST 29 Nov 03 - 11:11 AM
Hollowfox 29 Nov 03 - 11:24 AM
InOBU 29 Nov 03 - 11:25 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 29 Nov 03 - 11:48 AM
GUEST,guest from NW 29 Nov 03 - 02:44 PM
Bobert 29 Nov 03 - 02:57 PM
greg stephens 29 Nov 03 - 03:02 PM
Peter T. 29 Nov 03 - 03:10 PM
Peace 29 Nov 03 - 03:19 PM
GUEST,pdq 29 Nov 03 - 03:32 PM
InOBU 29 Nov 03 - 04:44 PM
InOBU 29 Nov 03 - 04:48 PM
GUEST,pdq 29 Nov 03 - 04:55 PM
Peace 29 Nov 03 - 04:56 PM
Peace 29 Nov 03 - 05:17 PM
Little Hawk 29 Nov 03 - 05:28 PM
InOBU 29 Nov 03 - 05:42 PM
GUEST,pdc 29 Nov 03 - 06:22 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 29 Nov 03 - 06:33 PM
Peace 29 Nov 03 - 07:00 PM
kendall 29 Nov 03 - 08:16 PM
Little Hawk 29 Nov 03 - 08:18 PM
GUEST,pdc 29 Nov 03 - 08:26 PM
mg 30 Nov 03 - 12:11 AM
GUEST,Boab 30 Nov 03 - 01:08 AM
Barry Finn 30 Nov 03 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,Frankham 30 Nov 03 - 12:01 PM
GUEST 30 Nov 03 - 12:15 PM
sledge 30 Nov 03 - 12:26 PM
kendall 30 Nov 03 - 07:49 PM
InOBU 30 Nov 03 - 10:03 PM
MarkS 30 Nov 03 - 10:08 PM
toadfrog 30 Nov 03 - 10:12 PM
Teribus 01 Dec 03 - 04:38 AM
GUEST 01 Dec 03 - 08:25 AM
kendall 01 Dec 03 - 08:26 AM
Teribus 01 Dec 03 - 08:57 AM
GUEST 01 Dec 03 - 02:19 PM
Bobert 01 Dec 03 - 05:47 PM
Donuel 01 Dec 03 - 06:00 PM
Ebbie 01 Dec 03 - 06:07 PM
Teribus 02 Dec 03 - 04:06 AM
GUEST 02 Dec 03 - 07:54 AM
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Subject: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST,guest From NW
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 03:56 AM

i asked in a previous thread for the bushbuddies in mudcatville to list dubyas admirable qualities. didn't get too many non-humorous answers. now i'd like to know what are the good things that have resulted from our occupation of iraq. let's get this answer out right now..."nobody can argue that the world isn't better off with saddam gone!". ok, we won't argue that. other than that, can anyone suggest some positive results we're seeing?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: kendall
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 07:21 AM

But IS the world better off? I'll bet the dead wouldn't say so.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: InOBU
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 08:18 AM

Well Kendall:
That is a good question. Malthus would point out that one good outcome of the occupation of Iraq is that it will eventually be a way of reducing our 2.5 million inmates in jail. In stead of putting our surplus poplulation in jail, we can send them to a meaningless war to kill and be killed. In this way, the alpha males at the very top of the social pyramid will have less to fear from the alpha males they have shat upon from the top, and less to fear from an angry planit they have pillaged. Ask them, and they will tell you, "if the dead don't like it, LET THEM COMPLAIN!" I, of course, in my gentle faith, think there are better ways to act.
Cheers
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 09:30 AM

At least Haliburton and Bechtel are going to have nice bottom lines to show their stock holders.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 09:44 AM

I very much doubt that the World...or Iraq...are better off.

However, here's a good thing about the Iraq occupation: The USA is now so heavily engaged in policing Iraq and Afghanistan that they may not have the resources to invade anyone else for awhile...I hope.

But if I was in Iran or Syria or Saudia Arabia, I would be very nervous.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 09:48 AM

We have their oil, and in combination with the Afghanistan occupation and intimidation of other governments in the region, control access to the Caspian oil too.

If you are a an American oil man, this war and this administration has been very good to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 10:02 AM

I would hope, and it is my belief, that the invasion and occupation of Iraq has stopped "pre-emptive strikes" as an acceptable foriegn policy...

And I agree with Little Hawk, the US military is now spread to thin to invade anyone else...

Other than these two "good things about the Iraq occupation" one would be hard pressed to find any others. The "Saddam was a bad man" chorus just doesn't rhyme. The only government that has ever worked in Iraq is structured very much like the Saddam government. Ask the Brits... They tried this almost a century ago...

Maybe, as a possible "good things about..." will be a recognition that the world is full of bad guys and that supporting a World Court and strengthening, rather than marginalizing the UN, is a better way of dealing with bad men...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 11:11 AM

We've plowed and fertilized their fields, pruned their trees, solved their parking problems, airconditioned their homes, and helped with their overpopulation. And we've jumpstarted their funeral home industry. What more do the silly buggers want?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Hollowfox
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 11:24 AM

Saddam isn't completely gone yet, is he?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: InOBU
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 11:25 AM

Look here, Little Hawk, ya Canadian B'strd... Your damn nation is harboring the terrorists who deserted the US army, so don't be so sure George is not going to go up there and open up a can of whoop-ass on youze guys... ;-)    Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 11:48 AM

So... is Occupatio an aggressive form of Sympatico? ...or just another one of those 'adventurous' sexual techniques? ;^) ...maybe a party out on the terrace... you know, the kind of gathering that just won't leave... even though it's dawn, and the neighbors have been complaining all night...

Good things? It has profoundly displayed that the US media is beholden to corpoarte interest... It has made us all stop and wonder if maybe a world of tollerance and mutual respect might not be so bad after all (if we can ever get it back) ...It has undermined the subconscious confidence that concervatives once had for George... It has shown the US left, with numerous daily incidents, how out of touch and irresponsible our 'hard ball' business techniques really are ...It will solidify the US rally cry, around what remains of our constitutional rights, to oust once and for all time the antiquated and bloody ways of conquest, in favor of peaceful and prosperous diplomacy and trust-building... and the US will become a benign and considerate world leader, a team player, and a strong advocate for peace and wellbeing around the world... and maybe even here at home...?

Yes, IMHO... it is making us take a long hard look at this administration, and the cross referencing with the essence of what our forefathers had in mind will spur us 'beyond' GWB. I believe that the silent majority will put him out to pasture next fall, and let evolution entice the quantum leap of simple respectful prosperity all over this glorious, but very small, planet earth. ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST,guest from NW
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 02:44 PM

some interesting responses. but once again, when asked for a simple declarative statement about the qualities or results of dubya and his policies that doesn't reduce down to "the sky is falling", interminable statistic spewing, "yeah, whatever, you pathetic whiners" or " yeah, you're so right teribus, jed and clinton" it seems the bushbuddies don't have a lot to say.
so, one more time, bushbuds, any good results of dubyas war (other than the agreed to "nobdy can argue that the world isn't better with saddam gone"refrain)?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 02:57 PM

GUEST from NW:

Hey, these folks don't respond too quickly when they're on the wtong side of issues. It takes awhile for them to huddle up and figgure ways spin stuff that appears unspinable but fret not. They'll come out the huddle singing the "Big Lie" in perfect harmony just as soon as the PR guys teach it to 'em...

GUEST, 11:11

LOL....... (kinda.......)....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 03:02 PM

Now, i know a lot of Iraqis. I'm not going to answer for them, but I can assure you you would get an enormous numbers of favourable responses to this thread if you asked Iraqis about it. The question looks very different depending whether you have a standard western liberal reaction or an Iraqi perspective.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 03:10 PM

I think that it is too early to tell some things, but with luck there are all kinds of positives that are going to unfold --

I had hoped that they might do something about the hideous child mortality rate they were partly responsible for, but after the invasion the collapse of the water system, etc., probably spiked it back up again. But with luck the hospitals will recover, and they can get back to a decent health system (they had one of the Arab world's best until the late 1980's). That will be completely positive.

They have inadvertantly made it possible for the Marsh Arabs to begin to reconstruct the marshes in the south.

Getting rid of Saddam and his disgusting sons is absolutely positive.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 03:19 PM

InOBU: I'm another Canadian b'strd and you have to get it right. We're holding the terrorists hostage until we get the money from the Nigerians for the Marminator movie. I still haven't figured out Rapaire's code--I have got to find out what he's taking--and you can't have the terrorists until the movie is in post production. We may not be able to beat the US militarily, but the military forces of that country will get so effed up trying to read our road signs that the point is moot. You cannot get anywhere in Canada by following our signs. Let that be a warning to you. Tell 'im, Little Hawk.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 03:32 PM

They're at it again. They have formed the dreaded Axis Of Alberta and will stop at nothing to get their way. Is Lightfoot in on this? Maybe Shatner...


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: InOBU
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 04:44 PM

Look here Brucie:
We didn't need no sissy road signs when we liberated you during the Revolution. If it were not for Benidict Arnold, you'd still have the Queen on your damn currency and it would be worth 75 cents to the dollar! Don't under estimate American resolve, that's right American resolve, you Canadains are allways underestimating the Americans, yup America... If you ever come to America you will see what's going on here, so get in an effing boat and cross the Mediteranian to America and see what the good old USA has to offer, you wont want your damn socialist medicine I tell you, old boy! You can join the 45 million who don't need doctors at all because they are too smart to give 300 bucks a month to the insurenece industry. So, as soon as the American army can find your third world pit stop nation, we'll be there!
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: InOBU
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 04:48 PM

PS I know I know, you guys in South America are Americans also, well you all pay American taxes right? Because of the Monroe doctors without boarders, you can work illegally in American cities or something... and if Canada weren't wedged between Nicaragua and Argentia, and boardering on Uganda we'd have made it part of America long ago. Damn ignorent third worlders.... Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 04:55 PM

I'm still waiting for Little Hawk to explain why we are to blame for the deforrestation of Placido Domingo.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 04:56 PM

InOBU: You present many cogent points about the things you address. Undoubtedly, with resolve and determination, we can reach consensus to do with the above matters. We will Gerrymander the requisite borders to accomplish the New World Geography you suggest so persuasively. BUT, FELLA, YA STILL CAN'T FIND YER WAY AROUND CANADA. Tell 'im, Little Hawk.

(I actually got a letter from a politician I wrote to about a social issue that was occurring at the time. Jaysus, and we actually vote for these people!)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 05:17 PM

The last thing should have included "got a similarly-worded letter from a politician". Sorry about that--on many levels.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 05:28 PM

I wasn't aware that Placido Domingo had had his trees cut off... :-) I suspect that Admiral Forrestal may have had something to do with it.

The only country I have ever feared might invade Canada is the USA, so I follow your reasoning, Larry. That's partly a matter of convenient geography, and partly a matter of national character...the Americans have attacked both of their immediate neighbours, as well as each other (in the Civil War), as well as a surprising number of other places, so there is some precedent for such aggressive moves in all available directions when something valuable is at stake.

Fortunately, we have a cadre of trained moose and beavers that will stop 'em cold at the border if they ever dare try it again!

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: InOBU
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 05:42 PM

Moose? MOOSE! Didn't you ever see rocky and Bullwinkle? Most of what most Americans know about geography and politics we learn from the gosple according to Rocky and mr. B. I don't want to correct you about your own country, but hell, that is what Americans are for... you don't have Moose and beavers in Canada... they don't live in the desert, geeze you Camel driveing nut, get off your camel and look around NO MOOSE, Moose live in Maine!
Geeze the ignorence!
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 06:22 PM

We have heard answers on what's "good" about the war in Iraq from the Iraqi point of view. Any answers on what's good about that war from the American point of view? Excluding Halliburton, please.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 06:33 PM

been there, done that... BTW, what does pdc stand for?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 07:00 PM

Jaysus, what has Canada got that the US could want, other than lots of trees, fresh water, coal, oil, diamonds, land--OK, let me put that another way! We got a mad cow, and she don't take shit from no one. Beware, for here there be dragons. There, Little Hawk, I told 'em! Besides, the American army couldn't survive the drive on the 401. We'll stop them at Customs. Uh, do you hae anything to declare? It'll take lots of Customs guys months to read the TO+E. We got bupkis to worry about.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: kendall
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 08:16 PM

We tried it in 1812. Didn't work out.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 08:18 PM

We'd just have Don Cherry meet 'em at the border, wielding a hockey stick and wearing one of his knock-em-dead sports jackets. Game over.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 08:26 PM

I would like to say that pdc stands for something clever like pretty darned cute, but in fact, they are just my initials. (I'm so ashamed.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: mg
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 12:11 AM

I think of Iraq, probably incorrectly, as a nation of civil engineers..seems like every third person there is an engineer. I think they can fix the problems in their own country, helped of course with huge oil resources for the short period of time left when we actually use oil, and make all sorts of contributions to the world, in terms of urban renewal, reforestation, remarshing, etc. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 01:08 AM

Yon's a MOOSE???? Keep me awa' frae yer CATS!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Barry Finn
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 09:22 AM

What's good about US being in Iraq?

Let's see

Nothing

Or our new understanding of the Geneva Convention.

We now know that our treatment of prisoners is in violation of the GC

We do know now that our treatment of civilians is in......

We knew that when we left cultural instructions (libraries & museums) to be looted is in ......Br>
We think that we can dance around the issue of the prisoners in Cuba & explain away our logic but again we are in .......

We found out the not keeping track of deaths & injuries of civilians is again in violation of the Geneva Convention

The world knows what the US thinks of them. It's the same way we think of the UN, we don't need or want you we can do it on our own but when we've done it we want you all to help with the clean up & the bills

WE know now that the presence of terrorists training camps with in the boundaries is cause for enough for the US to invade. But because we have the same terrorist camps here (see Pete Seeger & the protests against the training of Latin American soldiers) in the US it's ok because we will not implode & invade ourselves & none one else will invade us either with the exception of maybe some other terrorist groups or societies.

We also know but won't admit to the use of the media & how the reporting is totally one sided in favor of the invader & the right to know or the right of free speech for the press & the citizens is only a fleeting memory.

We do know for sure that the use of cluster bombs, though not yet completely outlawed, does continue to maim & kill civilians for generation's after.

We do know that we think that mass murder is acceptable if it can be covered up & that we don't have to account for it as long as we can make it go away (sorry that was Afghanistan not Iraq's prison uprising) again mass murder is in violation of the Geneva Convention, who'd of thought that up. This maybe a reason for not joining the World Court.

We also know the opinion & stance of the US when it comes to consideration of what the world human rights commission & amnesty
international has to say & claim, a bit like when the UN has a vote or something to say.

We are finding out that a repeat of Viet Nam don't work better just because we've been down the same road before.

We know now that questioning the government policy is un-American & that passing a 1 or 2 acts insures that all citizens will continue to be Patriots. I'm sure the list alot longer about the good that has come out of the invasion & occupation & that others could add far more to this than I but to get a view of the bad that has come of all this might be a bit more of a challenge.
   
Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST,Frankham
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 12:01 PM

One of the things I believe it's important to know is that Bush is a product not of the US working class but the elite and privileged.
He attended Yale and Harvard because of his parents and the Ivy League tradition and monied influence in back of him. If you don't believe that an education can be bought in this country than check out the Bush scholastic history.

You can't expect someone who employs his insider connections in business to have empathy for people who are less well off than he is.
It's very easy for him to distance himself from the outgrowth of the scourge of war. He has never been mano-a-mano in a war and probably has seen little blood and dirt in his life. He was AWOL in the Texas Air Command.   He doesn't really have the kind of courage that would enable him to lead the troops.

The Bushes have a bad track record in their business practices.
They have run repeatedly in violation of the SEC and W was never indicted for the Harken Energy scandal. Neil Bush got off easy
when he sank the Silverado Savings and Loan. It can be proven on a matter of public records that these brothers are unscrulous in their business dealings bordering if not outright illegal. It makes
Clinton's Whitewater deal seem like petty larceny although in that case nothing was proven. That was a radical right-wing vendetta.

For further info on this check out Paul Krugman's and Molly Ivin's books.

The Baghdad Caper is just another extension of the Enron, Harken and (fill-in-the-blank) corporate world.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 12:15 PM

There isn't anything consistently good about the occupation that applies to the entire country at this point. With the rise of organized resistance against the Anglo American alliance and the nations supporting it, both inside and outside Iraq, I think it safe to say the jury may remain out for quite sometime as to what is good about the Iraq occupation. As others have noted, it spiked the child mortality rate and exacerbated poverty in the region that had already taken a heavy toll because of Gulf War I sanctions.

If I were an Iraqi, or a citizen of any Arab nation in the Middle East, I might well be praying to be saved from the Anglo American barbarians coming to save us from ourselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: sledge
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 12:26 PM

On the UK news this morning it said 108 people have died in terrorist incidents this month alone, that alone starts to counter any good point the Bush spin machine might produce.

Sledge


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 07:49 PM

What about the fact that Bush has forbidden any pictures of coffins coming home? Where does he get the authority to do that?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: InOBU
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 10:03 PM

Little Hawhk and Brucie... I jus took the pickup truck out to the Walmart and bought me a big inflateable globe (Damn, it is real big, almost life size! Takes up mah whole desk!) And DAMN boys, you sons of bitches moved yer damn country to park right there ON TOP of our'n! Who the hell told you you could be on top! SO, Ah am writen to mah senitor and my president and demanding that we invade the north pole to be atop yer'n nation, so damn there!
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: MarkS
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 10:08 PM

Well, maybe we have put a stop to additions to the mass graves in Iraq now coming to light.
Other than that, cant say with confidence it is worth the continuing effort.
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: toadfrog
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 10:12 PM

If there was ever boredom, it was listening to folkies agree with each other! Where us Doug R, now we need him?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 04:38 AM

1 - UN Sanctions lifted
2 - The Iraqi's displaced by Saddam Hussein's regime are now free to return to their homelands (Marsh Arabs)
3 - No doubt now regarding any WMD and associated weapons development programmes all are now halted.
4 - For the first time in their history the people of Iraq will be given a say with regard to what the composition and form of their government will be.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 08:25 AM

4 - For the first time in their history the people of Iraq will be given a say with regard to what the composition and form of their government will be.

Sure Teribus. And I've got some marsh land in Iraq to sell you for real cheap too.

As to the sanctions--they were imposed through the UN, at the insistence of the US and Britain.

And weapons of WMD? God, you are really fucking gullible Teribus, if you think this war on the Iraqi people was EVER about WMD.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: kendall
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 08:26 AM

But Mark, WE were responsible for those mass graves! At the end of the first gulf war, Bush 1 told the Iraqis to rise up against Hussein. They expected our help, Bush 1 pulled out and Hussein took his revenge on those who opposed him. Many Iraqis today have the same fear that we will pull out and leave them holding the bag again.
Furthermore, we keep hearing about how Hussein gassed the Kurds, well, where did he get the gas? From the Reagan administration!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 08:57 AM

GUEST 01 Dec 03 - 08:25 AM -

Pray tell what causes you to tempt me by that which is not yours to sell? When since the 1920's have the people of Iraq had any say in who governed them - They do have that chance now, and that I would say (In 1066ALT terms) is a "Good Thing".

Have sanctions been lifted, or have they not. If you want to get into the how's and why's of their application start a new thread on the subject.

On the WMD subject - enlighten me - If you come back with the usual crap about oil - you are the one that is gullible.

kendall - 01 Dec 03 - 08:26 AM

Usual hair-shirt, self-flagellating crap.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 02:19 PM

The people of Iraq are currently being governed by an occupying army, Teribus, hardly self-governing now and as to when they might be self-governing is anyone's guess.

You do remember that Saddam Hussein was kept in power by the US government--in fact, many of the current administration (Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al) did that dirty work on our behalf during their revolving door assignments back in the 1980s.

Do you think none of us Americans know the history of our own government's misdeeds in our own lifetime?

The United Nations has pulled out , and along with it international support for the occupation and the occupiers governing Iraq is largely non-existent.

As to the WMD, well--what WMD exactly? The ones that the Bush administration lied about in the Bush State of the Union speech--the claim that our own CIA has proved false, fabricated, etc. but the Bush administration chose to lie about anyway?

Of course, THOSE WMD.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 05:47 PM

And furthermore, T-Bird, if the US/UK want the Iraqis to actually rule themselves then the US/UK need to leave. Hnaging around with lots and lots of weapons is not a step toward home rule. It's supervising.

And furthermore, Part B, back in the 1020's the Brits tried to get the Iraqis to set up an elected government and we all know what happened. This is deja vu all over again... These folks ain't wired that way...

Plus, if domocracy is so great, why isn't it pracriced in the US?

Bobert


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Subject: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupation
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 06:00 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushroomy.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 06:07 PM

As our lovely president said a week or two ago, it's good news that the attacks by Iraqis are more frequent and more deadly- it means that we are winning. Things must really be looking up for the Coalition.

American military officials said today that a pair of ambushes of American forces in central Iraq on Sunday reflected a level of planning, scale and coordination not seen among guerrilla forces since the regime of Saddam Hussein was ousted last spring. "Are we looking at this one closely? Yes." Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said today. "Is this something larger than we have seen over the past couple of months? Yes. Are we concerned about it? Yeah, we will look at it and we will take the appropriate measures." New York Times December 1, 2003


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 04:06 AM

GUEST 01 Dec 03 - 02:19 PM

In answer to your first point, I will transpose what you wrote slightly, then ask you a question, the year is 1945, the month is December:

"The people of Germany are currently being governed by an occupying army, Teribus, hardly self-governing now and as to when they might be self-governing is anyone's guess."

The question: Was that particular exercise (lasted more than five years) a success or not?

Regarding your second:
Period Iran/Iraq War - the end of what was known as the "Cold War". The US helped both Iraq and Iran. The aim behind it was to keep those two countries intact because it was fully realised by the US and quite a few other countries (USSR; France; Japan; Germany; UK) that that was in the best interests of that region in particular and the world in general.

Regarding your third:
I have no way of knowing whether or not you are an American, but I will take what you state at face value. As such I have no doubt that that you think you know what you perceive to be the history of your own government's misdeeds. As a non-American, from experience, my perception is that for the major part, in general, successive governments of the United States of America, have proved to have been of benefit to the world.

Regarding your fourth statement:
There are more countries actively involved in Iraq today than last March, or last May. The withdrawal by the United Nations humanitarian organisations is temporary, something they themselves stated at the time.

Regarding your fifth point:
As to the WMD, well--what WMD exactly? The ones that the UNSCOM inspection teams reported as existing to the United Nations in January 1999. Yes, THOSE WMD - but one thing Guest we can now be 100% sure of is this. That nowhere in Iraq today are there any ongoing programmes into their development, or into the development of weapons systems that can deliver them. And that is definitely a "Good Thing".

Bobert's furthermores - 01 Dec 03 - 05:47 PM

I refer you to the point regarding Germany in the aftermath of WWII. If memory serves me right the same two countries hung about for quite some time after the event, without any major negative effect.

"Back in the 1020's (1920's) the Brits tried to get the Iraqis to set up an elected government and we all know what happened. This is deja vu all over again... These folks ain't wired that way..."

Did we really Bobert? Or did we talk to those we recognised as being the leaders of those people? I believe it was the latter. The result was that Iraq was ruled (fairly briefly) by the British, then by the Hashemite rulers Britain had previously been allied to and negotiated with. Well it worked in Jordan, didn't in Iraq - you win some, you lose some - can't win 'em all. As to your patronising remark relating to your opinion that, "These folks ain't wired that way", how do you know Bobert if they haven't been given the chance? - after all way back in 1215, us Brits weren't exectly wired for the Magna Carta - biut we did end up benefiting from it.

"Plus, if domocracy is so great, why isn't it pracriced in the US?" - HUH???

Bobert are you, or are you not about to have an election in the United States of America next year? In that election who is entitled to vote? Who is entitled to stand?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Good Things about the Iraq Occupatio
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 07:54 AM

Here is Teribus' argument in a nutshell:

Empires good, colonies bad.


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