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Falsetto

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Jerry Rasmussen 19 Nov 03 - 04:11 PM
GUEST,petr 19 Nov 03 - 04:28 PM
M.Ted 19 Nov 03 - 05:06 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 19 Nov 03 - 05:34 PM
Mark Clark 19 Nov 03 - 05:34 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 19 Nov 03 - 06:20 PM
Amos 19 Nov 03 - 06:29 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 19 Nov 03 - 06:38 PM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 19 Nov 03 - 06:47 PM
GUEST,pdq 19 Nov 03 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,Russ 19 Nov 03 - 07:06 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 19 Nov 03 - 07:11 PM
Joybell 19 Nov 03 - 07:19 PM
Joybell 19 Nov 03 - 07:20 PM
Barbara Shaw 19 Nov 03 - 07:59 PM
GUEST,pdq 19 Nov 03 - 08:05 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Nov 03 - 08:52 PM
Joe Offer 19 Nov 03 - 09:26 PM
Padre 19 Nov 03 - 09:40 PM
Margret RoadKnight 19 Nov 03 - 09:49 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 19 Nov 03 - 10:05 PM
Malcolm Douglas 19 Nov 03 - 10:06 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 19 Nov 03 - 10:07 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 19 Nov 03 - 10:51 PM
Desert Dancer 19 Nov 03 - 11:31 PM
LadyJean 20 Nov 03 - 12:14 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 20 Nov 03 - 08:34 AM
Dave Bryant 20 Nov 03 - 12:04 PM
Uncle_DaveO 20 Nov 03 - 12:29 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Nov 03 - 01:10 PM
Joybell 20 Nov 03 - 04:10 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 20 Nov 03 - 04:24 PM
Joybell 20 Nov 03 - 04:50 PM
Malcolm Douglas 20 Nov 03 - 08:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Nov 03 - 08:32 PM
Burke 21 Nov 03 - 09:58 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 21 Nov 03 - 10:01 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 21 Nov 03 - 10:26 PM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Nov 03 - 08:10 AM
M.Ted 22 Nov 03 - 10:15 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Nov 03 - 12:10 PM
M.Ted 22 Nov 03 - 04:08 PM
M.Ted 22 Nov 03 - 04:10 PM
GUEST,pdq 22 Nov 03 - 04:20 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 22 Nov 03 - 06:02 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Nov 03 - 12:19 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Nov 03 - 01:18 PM
Uncle_DaveO 23 Nov 03 - 03:35 PM
GUEST,Lyle 23 Nov 03 - 04:06 PM
Joybell 23 Nov 03 - 05:03 PM
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Subject: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 04:11 PM

This should be a real short thread. At the Black and White Gospel workshop I did recently, I pointed out that falsetto is a common style of singing in black gospel (and rhythmn and blues.) Some singers, like Clyde Jeter of the Swan Silvertones, flowed so smoothly between his normal tenor voice and his falsetto that it was hard to hear where he switched. When I commented that I don't ever remember hearing falsetto in a group singing white gospel, several people protested, saying they know "hundreds" of white gospel recordings where someone sings falsetto. I've got a large collection of traditional folk music and white gospel, and I don't believe I have a single recording of either American traditional folk or white gospel with someone singing falsetto.

I asked the people to give me a f'rinstance, and nobody could. I wondered if they were just confusing falsetto with that high "mountain" tenor you hear in bluegrass and the old folk songs from Southern United States. Falsetto isn't deteremined by pitch. I don't even know how it happens, technically speaking (I'm sure someone here does..) I know singing falsetto is a gift, because mine is very unreliable.

Now, I do know that falsetto is used in yodeling, so it's not completely "foreign" to these shores. But falsetto in white gospel?
Anybody have a recording that you're SHURE is falsetto and not just that high "mountain tenor?

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 04:28 PM

my grandmother had a falsetto teeth.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: M.Ted
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 05:06 PM

My understanding is that the falsetto(as well as the other altered vocal styles, such as that whispery bass, and that froggy voice) come to Black Gospel music by way of JuJu from the old African religions, where they occur in religious rituals when the singer is possessed by the spirit of a particular god--there are vestiges of this in white charismatic rituals as well, such as in "speaking in tongues", and I am pretty sure have heard falsetto singing in mixed charismatic services, but I think you're right--


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 05:34 PM

Now, I'm thinking of exceptions... what would a rule be without exceptions? On humorous southern Appalachian songs, sometimes a male singer would sing the woman's part in falsetto. I've heard that on Batchelor Boy and a couple other songs... old-time string bands occasionally used falsetto in that way.

(I'm not starting this thread to prove my statement is "right," by the way.... just interested in learning more.)

I think you may be right, M. Ted... like so many other characteristics of black gospel, you can usually trace the roots back to Africa.

I've heard many people speak in tongues, by the way... it's fairly common in the black church. From my experience, I've never heard someone speak in falsetto, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did..

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Mark Clark
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 05:34 PM

Two words: Carl Story.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 06:20 PM

Hi, Mark: You may be right.... I have a fair amount of Carl Story, and really like him. I'll have to go back and listen to see if the high tenor is really falsetto, or just a high tenor. If it is falsetto, it wouldn't suprise me, as I thought bluegrass might be the exception. I don't listen to a lot of bluegrass, although I've booked bluegrass bands at a festival I ran for many years, and I never heard anyone in their groups singing in falsetto. It might just be that the question hadn't occurred to me back then.

I'll have to go back and listen to what I have..

Thanks for the response..

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Amos
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 06:29 PM

Falsetto: (a) A long-bladed thin dagger which is actually made of rubber rather than steel. (b)A padded brassiere in which an opening has been made for secreting such a weapon.

A


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 06:38 PM

Us Amuricans can eat Walnettos whilst singing Falsetto.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 06:47 PM

It's sometimes confusing to hear between head tones and falsetto. There is also a vocal style "voce finta" which resembles head tones and falsetto.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 07:05 PM

John Duffy had a great deal of classical voice training and could go seemlessly from normal voice range to falsetto. His highest notes are still powerful but above his natural range. He recorded a lot of "bluegrass gospel" with the Country Gentlemen and with Seldom Scene.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 07:06 PM

Female singers are tricky but Maggie Hammons Parker sounds to me as if she is singing falsetto on some of her selections in the Library of Congress Hammons Family set. Omie Wise for example.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 07:11 PM

You're right when you say it's sometimes hard to tell when someone slips into a couple of notes in falsetto. Some people glide in so smoothly, I can't hear the change. If someone just slips in occasionally for a note or two, it might well pass unnoticed. In black gospel, the singer is likely to do whole lines, or the whole song in falsetto. It's much more obvious, then..

Falsetto in country music or bluegrass would make more sense, as yodeling was taken in as part of western music. Guess there's another thread there... one on yodeling..

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Joybell
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 07:19 PM

Joan Baez, The Girls of the Golden West and, in Australia The McKean Sisters all seem to be using falsetto at times.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Joybell
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 07:20 PM

And Mexican male singers.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 07:59 PM

I'm not sure what is meant by "white gospel" or "falsetto" but there is a lot of what I call falsetto in white bluegrass gospel, especially in the early stuff. I took out a collection of Flatt & Scruggs (1948-1959) and the first cut of the first CD was "God Loves His Children" with Mac Wiseman (according to the liner notes) singing falsetto above Lester Flatt. It is most definitely not a high mountain tenor, although it probably doesn't qualify as white gospel.

Ralph Stanley often seems to go up from the high mountain tenor to falsetto. John Duffy sang very high, but it never seemed to be falsetto to my ear.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 08:05 PM

Listen to "New Freedom Bell", the early version from about 1960.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 08:52 PM

Yesterday I got the very fine cd by Willie K. (Kahalali'i), "Awihilima: Reflections." He carries some of his songs into a range which many call falsetto, but the high range is natural to traditional Hawai'ian music, and Willie K. is a fine performer of that music.

The dictionary defines falsetto as an artificial extending of the tenor range, but if it is natural and not artificial, is it falsetto?

I think the key is "artificial;" Willie K. is never artificial and I suspect some of the examples mentioned above are also not artificial. It also puts me in mind of some of the treble and countertenor singers required in renaissance choral works.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 09:26 PM

Hey, I hear the word falsetto and I think the Beach Boys and the Four Seasons. Are they folk?
There certainly is some fine falsetto singing in doo-wop music. Where'd that come from? Could it have traditional origins?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Padre
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 09:40 PM

Probably also need to differentiate between 'falsetto' and 'countertenor.'

The Harvard Dictionary of Music defines 'Falsetto' as "an artificial method of singing used by MALE singers, particularly tenors, to reach notes above their ordinary range."

'Countertenor' is defined as "Old name for male alto, derived from contratenor" - a third voice part added to the basic two voice system of descant and tenor in 14th and 15th century vocal compositions.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 09:49 PM

Greetings from Down Under, Jerry! Great discussion.
Just to be pedantic for a second, it's CLAUDE Jeter (your first posting), as I'm sure you actually know.
Re that dictionary definition - some of the most affecting falsetto comes from singers with naturally very low voices, eg Paul Robeson.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 10:05 PM

Dear old Mudcat... what an interesting and esoteric discussion. I'm really enjoying reading it. And thanks for correcting me on Claude Jeter. At least I didn't call him Derrick. As always, we get into definitions of music, and I might as well give mine. Or, at least what I consider falls under the umbrella of "folk" music. Bluegrass does, but straight country doesn't. Allison Krause I could comfortably include in "folk," although she has often strayed pretty far away from her roots. I wouldn't put Shania Twain under folk, because I don't hear many vestiges of folk in her music. When I make a statement that, not including bluegrass(although I consider it folk music) I don't remember hearing falsetto used in white southern gospel or white southern folk music. I ain't talking Southern France, or monks, or Mexicans... God love 'em all. My generalization is very specific. If that's possibile. It may not be 100% correct, and if someone can produce a recording with Mother Maybelle, or Charlie Poole, or more traditional American folk singers singing falsetto, I'll add an asterisk to my generalization.

The other area I've mentioned is some country music... Jimmie Rodgers immediately comes to mind for slipping up into falsetto. Yodelling is as falsetto as you can get.

As for rhythm and blues (Doo wop), listen to the Five Blind Boys of Mississippi, or many other black gospel quartets and you won't have any problem figuring out where it came from. Same with the "Why is everrrbody always pickin' on me" bass line.... Straight out of black gospel.

Thanks for all the fascinating posts..

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 10:06 PM

A person who naturally sings in the "falsetto" range would not be singing falsetto, but would be a male alto (a very unusual thing) or a castrato (which we might hope is even more rare). Falsetto is by definition a vocal technique producing an artificial and unnatural effect. Modern counter-tenors do not in the main sing naturally in that range, but are generally bass or baritones singing falsetto. Counter-tenor tends to show a greater warmth and tonal range because the natural voice on which it is based is larger to begin with. A chap I was at school with worked as a professional counter-tenor for some years (largely with Fritz Spiegl, I think, but we all have to do what we must to pay the rent) and his speaking voice was perfectly normal. A man singing naturally in the alto ("falsetto") range might be expected to have a speaking voice rather like Emlyn Hughes.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 10:07 PM

Interesting thread Mr. R....



confusing falsetto with that high "mountain" tenor you hear in bluegrass and the old folk.....



Baratone to Irish Tenor?


I am NOT a vocalist...I am key-boardist......however, recently finding myself thrown into a "group" that was filled (to the max) with the lower range males....and nothing separating them from the female sopranos......AND no need for a piano player (the two available surpass my pathetic skills.)



It...ain't "man-ly" but I have made a "cut in the cahones" to blend in with this amazing group of musicians.....


Delighted to not be faking my "real range" anymore....



Sincerely,

Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 10:51 PM

Then you know what I'm talking about, Gargoyle. My quartet is two baritones, a bass and a second tenor. We don't have a high tenor, and on some songs, depending on the key and when the tenor is singing the lead, we can't find enough space for three harmonies below him, and no one can naturally sing a harmony above him. When that happens, our other baritone, Frankie, sings falsetto. It's a great blend, with the falsetto counter-balancing the bass and I just fill in the middle.

Nothing un-cahones about it.

And Margaret, down under... I'm glad to see that someone knows who Claude Jeter is. Forget Caruso, or Pavrotti. The most amazing human voice I've heard is Claude Jeter's.. (just kidding, before anyone rises to the defense of Caruso or Pavrotti.) But, for falsetto, I don't believe there has ever been anyone who sang with such strength and emotion, taking the voice up to such a stratospheric level.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 11:31 PM

What about that one guy in the Double Decker Stringband (sorry, don't know which voice goes with which name)? Does that qualify?

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 12:14 AM

My first cousin once removed, Miss Katherine Caldwell, was a good friend of Mr. John Jacob Niles. I had the pleasure of meeting him more than once. His speaking voice was just as high as his singing voice, and I do not think it was an affectation.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 08:34 AM

High, Becky: Double Decker was one of the groups I thought of that uses a falsetto on occasion... but the only time I remember them using it is in novelty songs, or immitating a woman's voice. I don't think they use falsetto on a regular basis, just for harmony... or that the slide up into falsetto, singing lead.

Old-time music did occasionally use falsetto for humor.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 12:04 PM

As has been mentioned already, most counter-tenors (eg James Bowman) have bass or bass/baritone natural ranges, which have a range to but an octave lower than a normal female contralto voice (similar to the Tenor - Soprano comparison). On one of his records the famous Afred Deller sang several songs in his bass voice and I can remember a wonderful rendition of "In Cellar Drear" where he gets all the way down the D-R-I-N-K-I-N-G octave to an incredible bottom note (I don't mean the sort that Spaw's famous for).


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 12:29 PM

I don't understand and tend to disagree with the definition of falsetto as "an artificial extension of the tenor range".

How, "artificial"? What, is there surgery? Medications? Do they use special mechanical appliances? Or is it done in the electronics after recording?

Of course not. It's a vocal technique, using what the singer has naturally. Just because not everyone is able to do it or doesn't bother to learn it doesn't make it artificial. It would be just as meaningful to call ordinary singing artificial, or to call hand-clapping artificial. Yes, of course it's man-made, but so are those things.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 01:10 PM

Uncle Dave is restricting "artificial" to just one of its meanings when it has several (see OED).
Applicable here are the definitions "not natural in manner," "displaying special art or skill (allied with the word artifice)," etc.

Perhaps a better word is forced (vide OED):Falsetto- "A forced voice of a range or register above the natural."

In any case, the definition is subjective; what is natural for one may be forced or artificial in another.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 04:10 PM

What a great discussion. I've always wanted to yodel and can't. I've wondered why some singers are able to "break" into falsetto and some, (for me in spite of 55 years or so of trying), can't. My normal speaking voice is quite low-pitched but my singing voice is in the soprano range. I can sing in the lower range of my speaking voice but it doesn't sound as good so I usually don't. (Unless I'm trying to yodel). Why can't I yodel?


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 04:24 PM

Don't feel bad, joybell. When I yodel, I clear the room. The only yodeling I can do is the wee-wee-wee, weeooh at the end of The Lone Star Trail as recorded by Ken Maynard on the Anthology Of American Folk Music. Not that I feel compelled to yodel on a daily basis... sure wish I had a decent falsetto, though..

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 04:50 PM

Thanks Jerry. Some of my best friends can't yodel.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 08:34 PM

It may well be that there is an African influence on the use of falsetto in Gospel singing, but the technique is used in most cultures. It's quite easy with a little practice; must be, since I can do it with a fairly smooth transition from the natural range (bass-baritone in my case) to the unnatural, and I'm not much of a singer. Can't yodel, though, as I smoke too much for the quick jumps up and down; for which the world should probably be very grateful.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:32 PM

Could someone explain what is happening in falsetto that's different from other types of singing? Is it different vocal chords being called into service? Or something like over-blowing in a harmonica?

I can't really see how "natural" and "artificial" comes into it. With all types of singing, if you can do it, it feels natural, if you can't do it, it's impossible, and if you learn how to do it when it used to be impossible, it's artificial.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Burke
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 09:58 PM

Good old Grove Music here for a definition:

The treble range produced by most adult male singers through a technique whereby the vocal cords vibrate in a length shorter than usual, known as the second mode of phonation. Usually associated exclusively with the male voice, though available and employed in the female, the phonatory mode known as 'falsetto' has been equated with 'unnatural' as opposed to 'natural', partly through misleading philological usage. The correct term, second-mode phonation, is preferred here both to 'falsetto' and to 'pure head-register'.

[Physiology omitted]

The use of what has become known as falsetto is ancient and practised in many cultures. There are major elements of this second mode of phonation in the instinctive natural sounds of various animals, for example the gibbon. Similarly, its use by early man seems to have been instinctive, commonplace, and adopted for a variety of reasons not necessarily connected with what is now called singing. Second-mode phonation is much used in Asian drama and music. Its natural use is seen among Indian communities in Great Britain, where the condition known as 'pubephonia' persists at an age at which white youths are all using adult first-mode phonation; some Indian youths have to be coached in first-mode phonation to free them from what, to Western ears, may sound oddly juvenile.

[more history omitted]

Eventually, however, musical fashion (and erroneous association with castration) ensured the near-disappearance, from mainland Europe, of second-mode singing for several decades. Domenico Mancini (b 1891), a falsettist pupil of the last castrato, Alessandro Moreschi (d 1921), was refused entry to Lorenzo Perosi's music school, because Perosi, director of the Sistine Chapel Choir, regarded him as a castrato. It is only in England that second-mode singing enjoyed an uninterrupted, widespread tradition, particularly in all-male cathedral and collegiate choirs, academia and the glee club tradition. In the late 20th century falsetto singing came to be used in some types of popular music (notably by Michael Jackson).


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 10:01 PM

Interesting comparison to the harmonica.

In a peculiar backward-way perhaps it is a little like the "mouth-cavatation-bend" when you suck the blue's note out of a harp....both seem to have the constriction in the upper-throat/lower/mouth cavity.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

A speach therapist or vocal coach could probably clarify it in a flash.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 10:26 PM

All I got to say is it's naturaller to some than others. My falsetto is very unreliable, as is the tenor in our group. I have a very limited range in falsetto, but a wide range in my "natural" singing voice.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 08:10 AM

Well, I'm prepared to allow a professional voice coach explain it better than me, but the way I have understood it is simply:

"Normal" voice production produces a sound with the "fundamental" as what we take as the pitch of the produced tone.

"Falsetto" is called many things including "artifical" - the sound is not the fundamental, but an overtone of the fundamental of the "instrument" - in this case "the human voice". It need not be the first overtone, but you need to be good to control things - lots pf practice - I have never been able to produce more than one or two falsetto notes - but htne I have nver really tried as I do have quite an extended range - on a good night... singing wise that is ... :-)

On a related point, somewhere in my bottomless bag of tinwhistles, I have both

1) an Overton (or is a Chieftan?) "Overtone Whistle" (LowG fundamental) which has NO fingerholes, and is played by (over)blowing overtones & cupping the palm of one hand around the bottom hole and waggling it around like a leaf in a gale - visually not unlike a theremin... :-) by differently "loading" the exit hole with your hand, you can get a half octave, then you overblow again and get another half octave - a thorough b***ard of a thing to control, especially if you do have any muscular coordination hassles, but with effort, I can get a tune out of it - it sits unplayed for ages until I feel sufficiently masochistic to practice...

2) a normal D fundamental pitch whistle (looks like a Generation D!) with only three finger holes. Traditionally one of the holes is a thumb hole, but because of my micromotor hassle, I found it easier for me if all three holes were in the top as if they were the last three of a normal whistle. These were played in Medieval times (called a tabor pipe) with one hand and a tabor (drum) played by the other hand, either by hand or stick. You can also do this with a normal whistle by simply taping over or just not lifting your fingers off the top three holes - you can't get the bottom octave in full, but can achieve a full upper octave by utilising overblows. Normal Tabor pipes are twice as long as a standard pitch whistle, since you generate the useful notes an octave above what you would expect from the normal pipe. Because of this overtoning, the texture of the notes is slightly different - as is the falsetto human (male) voice - calling dogs would be probably be more appropriate for a female falsetto... :-)

You could if you wanted, call these two above musical instruments "falsetto" whistles.... :-)

Robin


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 10:15 AM

The falsetto is made, at least as I understand it, by using only the margins of the vocal chords--I lost my falsetto voice for a long time, but have been working on my yodelling, and have gotten it back--I can sing in full voice over my falsetto range as well, and it sounds and feels different--


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:10 PM

So what's the difference between what a counter-tenor is doing and falsetto. Are they both examples of "the second mode of phonation"?


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 04:08 PM

Counter tenor is the same as falsetto--


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 04:10 PM

See this: Counter Tenor


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 04:20 PM

Anyone have a specific example of falsetto in White Gospel tradition? I think "Family Reunion" by Carl Story, recorded in the mid 1950s, is a great choice.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 06:02 PM

Glad to hear that, pdq. I'll have to see if that song is on any of my Carl Story stuff. I'm sure there are other instances as well. I just haven't found it commonplace in white southern gospel, where it is quite common in black older gospel quartet music.

rsvp


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 12:19 PM

I'd imagine that it should be possible for women to sing falsetto and get even higher notes than a man doing it - sort of counter-soprano. Anyone come across that? It occurse that some of the sounds you get from Eastern Europe (eg Bulgeria) might use this voice. And of course you do get women yodelling.

And thinking about that it occurred to me to wonder whether there might be a kind of reverse falsetto, which would involve training the voice to sing lower than would be thought of as natural.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 01:18 PM

Anyone remember Yma Sumac (Peruvian?). She could move her voice from base to treble and never go off pitch.


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 03:35 PM

Yes, I remember Yma Sumac. She was almost frightening to listen to, going from a super-bass to a super-soprano, and smoothly, and as I recall, good quality in all the ranges that were familiar to me. I couldn't speak for the sound-quality in what I called super-bass, or in the "super-soprano", because I had no standard of comparison.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: GUEST,Lyle
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 04:06 PM

Excellent discussion, I'm learning a lot.

Question: Is there a range of notes between "normal range" and "falsetto" that the singer cannot reach? If not, how do you determine *by listening* when a singer is singing falsetto?

I asked this of a group of barbershoppers once, and the answer I got was, "Well, I know it when I hear it!" That doesn't help me at all.

Lyle


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Subject: RE: Falsetto
From: Joybell
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 05:03 PM

I have a low range that I can sing in that sounds like someone else entirely. It's rather awful although in tune. If I record myself and then sing harmony with myself we sound like two people who've never met before and who should keep well apart musically speaking. Weird! Not sure how this fits in with the discussion.


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