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Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?

DigiTrad:
GOLDEN VANITY
SINKING OF THE GRAF SPEE
THE BOLD TRELLITEE
THE GOLDEN VANITY
THE GOLDEN VANITY (6)
THE GREEN WILLOW TREE
THE LOWDOWN LONESOME LOW
THE LOWLANDS LOW (7)
THE SWEET KUMADEE
THE TURKEY-ROGHER LEE and the YELLOW GOLDEN TREE


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Keith A of Hertford 16 Jun 11 - 06:39 AM
Les from Hull 16 Jun 11 - 07:33 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 16 Jun 11 - 07:38 AM
GUEST,Noreen on lunch break 16 Jun 11 - 07:47 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jun 11 - 08:04 AM
GUEST 16 Jun 11 - 08:07 AM
GUEST,Grishka 16 Jun 11 - 09:19 AM
Les from Hull 16 Jun 11 - 09:27 AM
GUEST,Kendall 16 Jun 11 - 01:03 PM
GUEST,leeneia 16 Jun 11 - 03:23 PM
Phil Edwards 16 Jun 11 - 03:43 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Jun 11 - 08:29 PM
GUEST,leeneia 17 Jun 11 - 11:15 AM
GUEST,leeneia 17 Jun 11 - 11:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 06:39 AM

I expect it has already been said, but the main objection would be that when he tried to turn his auger, it would stand still while the cabin boy rotated.
Action and reaction.
He has nothing to stand or hold on to.


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 07:33 AM

c/f Bushnell's 'Turtle'


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 07:38 AM

There was a reference somewhere higher up this thread to a ship being captured when grounded. This ocurred during the Enlish Civil war when a ship was capured by a cavalry troop at Blue Anchor in the Bristol Channel, between Watchet and Minehead.

I would sugest that the cabin boy's best course of action would be to try to board the enemy ship unnoticed, creep down to the bilges and bore holes from the inside. Drilling several holes in a circle, each most of the way through and then break the whole area out and run!


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: GUEST,Noreen on lunch break
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 07:47 AM

Leenia, are you serious??

Swimming has been recorded since prehistoric times; the earliest recording of swimming dates back to Stone Age paintings from around 7,000 years ago. Written references date from 2000 BC. Some of the earliest references to swimming include the Gilgamesh, the Iliad, the Odyssey, the Bible, Beowulf, and other sagas. In 1578, Nikolaus Wynmann, a German professor of languages, wrote the first swimming book...

from History of swimming on wikipedia

Interesting thread :)


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 08:04 AM

A lad resourceful enough to own and use an auger, would surely be able to make use of a rubber ring, or some such aid to buoyancy.

I still think reaction was his greatest problem.
Of course the law on action and reaction did not come into force until 1687.
Do we have a date for the song?
It could conceivably have come into force between him diving in and attempting to drill.
That would explain why he was unprepared.
If we could find a missing verse that mentions whether the ship recoiled when he dived....


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 08:07 AM

On a dead man's door, you can knock forever.


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 09:19 AM

Pip Radish (16 Jun 11 - 04:12 AM), LOL. If you are the poet, well done! Which makes me long for the legendary CHALLENGES. Why not have a folk song for topic, and the challenge would be: add or replace verses to reveal how it really happened. (Not just an alternative ending, we had that before.)

ripov (15 Jun 11 - 04:53 PM) pronounced what every seasoned scholar always thinks of first.

And may I defend leeneia: although in all history most ordinary country dwellers certainly could swim, many educated persons are known who could not - they thought it beneath them. This included ship captains.

Keith A of Hertford (16 Jun 11 - 06:39 AM): Conservation of angular momentum was proclaimed later still, but even if the boy was malnourished, half of his effort would go to the drilling, the other half make him revolve round the auger. Same (more or less) with the "American Turtle". Modern systems have two drills revolving in opposite directions.

One version in the DT has the dead boy shouting from Heaven and sinking the GV for revenge - certainly not a patriotic ending, but matching the rest of the ballad in terms of realism.


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 09:27 AM

I read somewhere that some sailors chose not to learn how to swim because they thought it would prolong their death if they fell overboard.


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 01:03 PM

Most commercial fishermen to this day don't swim for that very reason.


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 03:23 PM

"Leenia, are you serious??"

Of course I'm serious. How could one sister off the other sister in all the Two Sisters ballads if the other sister could swim?


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 03:43 PM

the main objection would be that when he tried to turn his auger, it would stand still while the cabin boy rotated

"So he bored his little auger in the pirate ship so hated,
But the auger it stuck fast, while the cabin boy rotated.
Says he, if things go on like this I'll be bloody well belated
Ere I sink them in the lowlands low..."

Something else struck me about the song today. These pirates -

Some were playing cards and some were playing dice
And some were in their hammocks a-sporting with their wives


Not sure how to put this, but is it even possible to... er... sport with one's loved one in a hammock? I know I wouldn't like to try it.


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 08:29 PM

I have personally witnessed a little tool sink a folk club. I expect sinking a ship is roughly the same.


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Jun 11 - 11:15 AM

I asked the DH, a great lover of history books and all things nautical, and he has a scheme involving sheep intestines loaded with black powder. The cabin boy would drill the holes, push in the lethal links, light the fuse, and whammo!

But the plan hit a snag when I asked him how a fuse could burn underwater.

He himself pointed out that the timbers of the ship could be 6 to 12 inches thick. That's arduous argering.


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Subject: RE: Gold.Vanity. Can you REALLY sink a ship?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Jun 11 - 11:17 AM

oops spelled that wrong

arduous augering


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