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Lending instruments especially in Pubs

Tyke 15 Aug 12 - 08:45 PM
Henry Krinkle 15 Aug 12 - 04:22 AM
GUEST 15 Aug 12 - 03:37 AM
Ole Juul 15 Aug 12 - 12:24 AM
meself 14 Aug 12 - 05:49 PM
Leadfingers 14 Aug 12 - 05:38 PM
GUEST,999 14 Aug 12 - 04:50 PM
Tyke 14 Aug 12 - 04:35 PM
Blues=Life 22 Jan 10 - 08:39 AM
GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau. 30 Sep 09 - 11:19 PM
Tyke 30 Sep 09 - 06:05 PM
Suegorgeous 30 Sep 09 - 04:26 PM
Blues=Life 30 Sep 09 - 02:29 PM
Tyke 29 Sep 09 - 12:30 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Sep 09 - 11:30 PM
Blues=Life 28 Sep 09 - 09:00 PM
Duke 28 Sep 09 - 05:56 PM
The Sandman 27 Sep 09 - 06:02 PM
Tyke 26 Sep 09 - 05:32 PM
GUEST 26 Sep 09 - 12:44 PM
Tyke 26 Sep 09 - 10:03 AM
Tyke 10 Jun 07 - 04:39 PM
Blues=Life 08 Jun 07 - 04:12 PM
Tyke 08 Jun 07 - 06:16 AM
Midchuck 07 Jun 07 - 01:59 PM
coldjam 07 Jun 07 - 01:39 PM
Tyke 06 Jun 07 - 07:49 PM
Gulliver 06 Jun 07 - 06:55 PM
Tyke 06 Jun 07 - 03:57 PM
Gulliver 05 Jun 07 - 09:02 PM
Tattie Bogle 05 Jun 07 - 08:06 PM
PoppaGator 05 Jun 07 - 05:44 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 05 Jun 07 - 05:28 PM
Joe Offer 05 Jun 07 - 04:19 PM
The Sandman 05 Jun 07 - 10:41 AM
Gulliver 05 Jun 07 - 09:39 AM
The Sandman 05 Jun 07 - 04:24 AM
Richard Bridge 05 Jun 07 - 04:05 AM
GUEST 05 Jun 07 - 03:21 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 04 Jun 07 - 11:08 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 04 Jun 07 - 11:05 PM
Phil Cooper 04 Jun 07 - 10:42 PM
Tyke 04 Jun 07 - 07:26 PM
Jim Lad 04 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM
Mary Humphreys 04 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM
Howard Jones 04 Jun 07 - 07:12 PM
slowerairs 04 Jun 07 - 07:07 PM
Dame Pattie Smith EPNS 04 Jun 07 - 06:44 PM
Peace 04 Jun 07 - 06:41 PM
Jim Lad 04 Jun 07 - 06:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:45 PM

I don't mind lending out my Blues Harp I don't play it much anyway. But I always carry it in it's case as I find that it the best thing for scraching my Piles when they start to itch!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 04:22 AM

Yea. Bring the cheapest piece of Chinese crap you can find. And smash it up like Pete Townsend. Then hand it to them to play.
(:-( D)=


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 03:37 AM

one good thing about playing the banjo is that you almost never get asked!

The other thing is that at most of the sessions I go to, anyone asking will be either better than me, play something I don't know, or both.

19-fret tenors are easy to find, offer a good range of choice and cheap when found, unlike the 17-fret sort; and I've rather come to the conclusion that a fair number of players, myself included, really aren't fast or fancy enough for it to make any difference which sort they play.

So I don't really have many problems that way.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Ole Juul
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 12:24 AM

A musician wouldn't expect another musician to lend their instrument. In professional circles it's even impolite to ask. Unfortunately, social rules are sometimes under suspension while under the influence. Bring an extra guitar with an inch high action and frayed strings.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: meself
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 05:49 PM

Yeah, but we aren't all as tough as you.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 05:38 PM

Now that my (owned from new) 1970 D35 is virtually retired I dont get asked so often ! The Stock "IF you want to play a Martin in a session BUY one" usually worked for me , even with the guy who went out to his car and brought his own D35 in !!!
Any one picking up ANY of my other instruments without asking is risking injury !


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 04:50 PM

"I started this Thread and refreshed it just to make people aware that they should not feel alone in their dislike of being asked to lend out instruments."

If you know me well enough to think of borrowing my guitar then you also know me well enough to understand there's no point asking.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 04:35 PM

Refresh


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Blues=Life
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 08:39 AM

Yeah, drunks always say, "C'mon, I won't hurt it... and if I do, I'll pay for it." The problem, of course, is that they are drunk. Legally, they are not competent to enter into any contract, verbal or otherwise. They are drunk. Intellectually, they can't comprehend that the replace cost of your guitar is in the thousands of dollars. They are drunk. And like Pierre said, "You should not have let them borrow it in the first place" because the onus is on you to make a smart decision about your instrument. They are too drunk to be smart.

"No, no, no, Hell No!"

:)


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau.
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 11:19 PM

The answer is folks if the person who borrows Your Guitar breaks it will He /She pay for the repair or come out with the FACT "that you should not have let them borrow it in the first place. I only lend my guitar to a very selected few and thats all there is to it.
regards Pierre.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 06:05 PM

Hi Sue a Pub or club guitar used to feature in a couple of Pubs in Whitby. It's a great Idea for those too lazy to bring their own and so that the rest can point at said instrument and no you can't borrow mine but the landlord has one you can borrow. Its great when that happens however you still get the odd moron.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 04:26 PM

Tyke

That anon Guest post on 26th was me (away from home). Host of an open mic can be the landlord, but more commonly someone hired specially to run the OM. He/she is the one who gets asked most for the lend of a guitar, so they soon get wise and provide one for borrowers!

Sue


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Blues=Life
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 02:29 PM

Ya know, instruments are one of the few things that people really try to guilt you into lending. If I asked to borrow your car, your home, your toothbrush, your wife, your suit, or your camera, and you said no, it would seem to most people as over the line to say "Come on, let me... let me!" So why shouldn't we be just as "unguilted" when we say No to something as intimate as our instrument?

Like I said before, "No, no, no, Hell No!"


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 12:30 AM

My instruments are insured in my own home however when I looked into insuring them at gigs I found that they would only be insured on a stage that was 2ft high. Not a lot of them about over here in pub's and clubs so it's not practical. In any event at least one of my instruments would be very difficult to replace.

I started this Thread and refreshed it just to make people aware that they should not feel alone in their dislike of being asked to lend out instruments. Landlords will hopefully take note that they should be supportive when a musician say's no sorry I don't.

You are not being mean or grumpy saying no and hopefully others will support you when you do say no.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 11:30 PM

Actually Dick's answer three back provides the perfect, polite, turndown to which nobody could object — 'sorry, lending out is specifically forbidden in my insurance policy'.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Blues=Life
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 09:00 PM

Tyke, we don't have landlords at bars here in the States. Many bars hire a "host" to organize and supervise an open mic night. He or she will get the music going by performing a few numbers, often with a house band (sometimes paid, sometimes volunteer). The host also takes signups from those who want to participate, and will often pair up like minded players to take over for house band members. I.e., if a kid who plays drums comes up to play, the host might put them on stage with an experienced guitarist, bassist, and vocalist. It's quite an art form to watch a good host organize the different levels of talent. And yes, often they have a good "loaner" guitar for those who want to participate. It saves a lot of issues to keep the wannabees off of your Martin, for instance. :)


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Duke
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:56 PM

I lent my J-45 to a very close friend. While he was on stage, playing a classical guitar, my gibson fell from the stage. It landed on the head and did a complete summersault and landed flat on its back. I guess the air pressure saved it from crashing as the only damage was that one of the machine heads got slightly bent. Accidents do happen!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 06:02 PM

nobody is allowed to play my oboe without my permission,sorry but its only insured for me.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:32 PM

The host being the Landlord?


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 12:44 PM

Some open mic hosts provide a cheap guitar specifically for those who come along and ask to borrow one.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 10:03 AM

Refresh


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:39 PM

Nice one Blues=Life lets get the borrowers told!!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Blues=Life
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 04:12 PM

I guess for me it depends on the setting and the guitar. I have two Tacomas that I would never lend in a bar setting, and would gladly lend to another player sitting in my living room. I like the jealous looks, but hate drunken damage. I also have a perfect Telecaster that I let several different teenagers play during a Battle of the Bands I was helping to run. I figured that if they passed through an audition to get there, they could be trusted with my baby. They all loved the axe, but one of them looked really nervous when I braced him following his performance. I looked down on him (they don't call me Big Ugly for nothing) and growled, "I am not happy with what you did with that guitar!" He stammered out a "What did I do?" and looked like he was going to have to change his pants. "You spoiled it, that's what. Now she's going to expect ME to play that well!" At that point he got the compliment, and all he could say after that was, "Man, what a great guitar!"

Having said all that, it's your guitar. You don't have to make nice, you don't have to explain yourself. If you do not wish to lend your guitar, and the person asking doesn't understand a smile and a "No, thanks, I don't think so," then all you got to do is say, "What part of no do you not understand?" It's your baby. No justification needed. (Although I do like the "I didn't ask to f*** your wife, so why ask me about my guitar?" school of thought.)

No, No, No, HELL NO.

That's fine with me. You only gots to be polite the first time.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 06:16 AM

Well time to pack my guitar into a case that I use to carry it about in Whitby and Robin Hoods bay. It's of a Nylon canvas construction with a thin veneer of wood and then Polystyrene and very light weight. It has a couple of good-sized pockets for picks, strings, tuners, set of pliers and other tools. I t can also hold 4 mouth organs and a hands free holder for the latter. It's the third case of this type I have bought one I lent to someone so that they could take their Guitar to the Philippians the second lasted about three years before it got a bit worse for ware. Still they only cost about £30 each and are just that bit stronger than a gig bag and the Polystyrene keep the instrument away from extremes of temperatures.

Its has two straps so I can carry it on my back leaving my hands free to help anyone push a Grand Piano back up the hill from the Dolphin at the bottom of the hill in Robin Hoods Bay back up to the campsite. Well at least they did take their own instruments I'm also quite happy to carry any Banjos up the hill although it will have to be the next morning. Just pile them up on the beach and I'll collect them the next day :-).


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 01:59 PM

How about "Sure, you can play it, as long as I can grope your date while you're doing so."?

Trouble is, of course, the guy might agree and his date might not be someone I want any contact with.

More seriously, I have several guitars of varying degrees of quality. The better ones, nobody else plays unless he/she can play as well as, or better than, me (there are a lot of those, I assure you), and is cold sober. But I try to make it a point to take one I care less about if I'm going where there are dubbers who may be drinking.

P.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: coldjam
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 01:39 PM

John 'Giok' MacKensie wrote:
I have a new format for refusing, I just say "Sorry but it's only insured for me"


BINGO! Since my husband started using this a few years back we've had NO problem. Even the inebriated seem to respect "insurance".


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 07:49 PM

Ok Gulliver no problem hope to see you sticking up for peoples rights. I know its the old I took my Harp to a party thing but better to carry round your harp on the off chance than to sit itching to join in.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Gulliver
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 06:55 PM

Yes, Tyke, I agree with what you say.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 03:57 PM

Good idea not to do it then Gulliver for true or imagined will just as upsetting for that person. It will ruin his or her night and probably put a damper on the whole session if not end it abruptly.

I wont be offended if asked not to smoke but I will show my displeasure if someone messes with my Guitar without asking. The majority of people in this discussion are I think in agreement with it being an individual's choice to lend or not to lend.

I refreshed this thread Gulliver because someone came to me and complained that he or she (I am not going to say who) felt to frightened to say no. I think that if you think that it is ok to be intimidated into doing something that they do not want to. You have a serious problem and should seek advice before its too late and you loose all your friends.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Gulliver
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 09:02 PM

For someone to just grab my guitar without asking would be almost as dangerous if he groped my wife.

There's a whole branch of psychiatry dealing with folks uncomfortable with their sexual desires for a real person, and substituting a fetish.

In this case a guitar?


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 08:06 PM

As someone said above- depends who's playing it!
I have 2 guitars - a cheapo I take to sessions (tho' it doesn't sound that bad), and a better one for "performances". I was sitting with my cheapo at a session in Sidmouth last year when in walked Lulo Reinhardt (? nephew of Django), sat down beside me and asked if he could borrow my guitar. My reaction - "Well at least someone lend him a decent one" - but he played MINE - like a dream!! It really made the decade for another musician who plays jazz guitar and played along with him! I felt like painting on it "Lulo Reinhardt played this guitar" - and then maybe putting it on Ebay!

And it's not just instruments that get borrowed and sometimes mal-treated. I was at a Singers' session and left a pretty old book of songs on the table by my seat: I had to leave the room on some organisational duties, and arrived back to find my precious book up on a music stand with the spine bent right back. The person concerned had not asked my permission to borrow the book, nor to bend it right back and split the spine - and to add insult to injury, he couldn't even sing the song he had chosen to the correct tune! I did go up and tell him not to bend my book back, but kept quiet about the rest.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:44 PM

Joe, you can't catch cancer from saliva, However, I can certainly understand feeling a bit squeamish in the presence of teminal disease ~ knowing intellectually that something is "safe" is not the same as feeling secure.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:28 PM

"For someone to just grab my guitar without asking would be almost as dangerous if he groped my wife."

I'd subscribe to that Kendall, tho' if my wife and my guitar were being groped at the same time, I could safely rescue the guitar. The wife's assailant would be lucky indeed if he only lost one hand.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:19 PM

My wife's previous husband was dying of cancer, and I came to visit and sing with him about three weeks before he died. I was fooling around on my harmonica, but not playing it very well. He asked to borrow it. I admit I was a little squeamish, but I handed it over. He played "I'll Fly Away" more beautifully than I had ever heard it before.

That's what I sang at the end of his funeral, four weeks later. I scattered some of his ashes in the garden where he sat and played that song for me.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 10:41 AM

I wont lend anyone my mouth organ ,Its a goodway of picking up an infection.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Gulliver
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 09:39 AM

I had a think about this last night, and I cannot recall anyone ever being refused the loan of an instrument at any session I was at in Dublin (or any place else for that matter, but I live in Dublin and attend a minimum of 3 pub sessions there a week). Could be guitar, banjo, mandolin, or even fiddle. In fact, anyone who wants to sing a song is usually asked if they'd like to borrow a guitar.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:24 AM

Tabster, Mary Humphreys,BernardThanks.Yes I agree with you Tyke,


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:05 AM

There are, it seems, very few disaster stories...


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 03:21 AM

I was at a session on Sunday night, and someone asked to borrow the guitar of an excellent musician who was present. After reading this thread, I tensed...but the guitar was freely and cheerfully handed over.

"Hmmm, not a Mudcatter then," I thought...
    Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
    Thanks.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 11:08 PM

I will lend ANY instrument within my immediate possesion (mine or otherwise) I expect to learn and be enthused and entertained.

Three things should not be lent: spouse, backpack, boots.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 11:05 PM

Look...Some things are of value....others are not.



IF ...YOU are willing to lend the item (and the item is valued less than the friendship....) it is willfully, and gleefuly lent.



If the friendship is valued greater than the item....and the loss of the item might endanger friendship.....NEVER LEND to a FRIEND.



Sincerely,

Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 10:42 PM

If I know the person asking, I'll probably let them use my guitar. Sometimes I've asked to borrow a standard tuned guitar for one of my turns in a song circle, because I'm too lazy to retune my own. But I wouldn't be offended if no one let me. Since I'm a known commodity, they usually do, in this circumstance. If I were visiting a new session, where I'm not known, I'd probably sit and listen and decide to bring my guitar or not on a future visit.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:26 PM

Do you know Dame Pattie Smith EPNS that people are still talking about you and your exploits at Holmfirth F. O. F. I think you spoons workshop went down well too :-)

But yes I agree its not what they cost or what kind but instruments have feelings too and they often sulk after being in strange hands. The trouble is that the people who ask to borrow or who just pick them up and play them with out asking are the very people who should not be playing them.

If you see it happening please point out to the offending er er person, politely, the error of there ways. I they get nasty feel free to draw this to the attention of the Landlord it is after all his ultimate responsibility.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM

"Mind if I batter on your guitar for a wee minute, Jim?" ...Uttered by one of my cousins at a party. Very tongue in cheek though.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM

In the old days, Suffolk pubs had a melodeon behind the bar for anyone to play. Perhaps there ought to be a pub guitar for those who can't or won't bring one to the session.
I would be very careful about lending out my Concertina. Capt Birdseye borrowed it on one occasion at Bishops' Stortford some years ago, just to try it out. He seemed so taken with it I thought I would never get the thing back!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Howard Jones
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:12 PM

When I was young and stupid, I was used to playing in sessions where it was quite acceptable to pick up and play an unattended instrument. However we all knew each other, and none of us had particularly valuable or special instruments. Then I visited another area and got into a session, and picked up a spare mandolin. The owner was surprisingly reasonable about it, but did request that before I borrowed his antique Gibson it would be nice to ask.

I was suitably chastened. However I hope I treated it with respect.

Now I'm older (although probably still stupid) I would be more careful. If for some reason I've turned up without an instrument, I would ask before borrowing, try to demonstrate that I know what I'm doing, and would never re-tune without permission.

But I wouldn't let anyone borrow my Guild guitar, although it helps that I use a tuning even more obscure than DADGAD. And don't even ask about my concertinas...


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: slowerairs
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:07 PM

How about a sign on the entrance to pub, stating

THE MAN WHO LENDS MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS, IS UNAVAILABLE THIS EVENING.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Dame Pattie Smith EPNS
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 06:44 PM

Over the years in sessions when I`ve left my spoons on the table while I've played my concertina somebody has always picked them up and had a go at them. They seem to think that they are not an instrument, just two spoons and don`t even ask. You may think me crazy but I KNOW when someone has played my spoons (or not). They just feel different and they are every bit as important as my concertina or my fiddle. Now I just put them in my handbag instead....


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 06:41 PM

"As politely as you can, say no."

After the first no, polite has nothing to do with it.

There are about five people I would lend my guitar to--whether for a song or a month. Most people ain't on that VERY short list.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 06:00 PM

"There's nothing I like more than hearing someone else produce good music from one of my instruments."
We're at the wrong side of our instruments. Well said, Doug.


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