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Origins: Logie o' Buchan

Hester 07 Apr 03 - 12:08 PM
masato sakurai 07 Apr 03 - 01:04 PM
Hester 07 Apr 03 - 02:26 PM
Shonagh 07 Apr 03 - 04:00 PM
Hester 07 Apr 03 - 05:45 PM
Strupag 08 Apr 03 - 01:06 PM
Hester 08 Apr 03 - 03:46 PM
CET 08 Apr 03 - 10:15 PM
Malcolm Douglas 08 Apr 03 - 11:25 PM
CET 09 Apr 03 - 09:05 PM
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Subject: Origins: Logie o' Buchan
From: Hester
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 12:08 PM

Hi, all:

There are a couple of versions of this song in the DT, along with information that it was written in the 18th century by George Halket of Inverallochy, Aberdeenshire, and that Halket was a supposed Jacobite.

My question is, what is the relationship between this song and the kirkton or village of Logie Buchan in Aberdeenshire (which is a fair ways south and inland from Inverallochy)? My great-great grandparents were married in the parish of Logie Buchan in 1863.

And, in the lyrics, WHO is it that takes young Jamie away? Is he being conscripted into the army? Arrested for Jacobite sympathies?

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks, Hester


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Subject: RE: Origins: Logie o' Buchan
From: masato sakurai
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 01:04 PM

Some info is in John Greig's Scots Minstrelsie, vol. 1. Notes to "Logie O' Buchan" are on p. ii.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Origins: Logie o' Buchan
From: Hester
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 02:26 PM

Masato, you are a virtual human reference library! And a treasure!
Thanks so much.

Greig's notes still leave me with some questions, though.

He says:

"The Logie of the song is situated in Crimond -- adjoining the parish where Halket lived."

Hmmm... well, Crimond is close to Inverallochy & Rathen, so that fits. However, my ancestors' "Logie Buchan" is about 20 miles south of there, just east of Ellon on the river Ythan. Odd that two such close places would have the same name. Not impossible, though. Just outside Toronto, uptil about 10 years ago, we had two Newcastles that were so close to one another, one had to change its name to Clarendon. Grieg's syntax is ambiguous, but suggests that the "Logie o' Buchan" in the song was the name of 'the mansion-house' in Crimond, rather than a separate village.

Greig also mentions that "the 'Jamie that delved in the yard' was gardener at the mansion-house -- James Robertson by name". Cool. My great-great-grandfather was an agricultural labourer at a manor (or farm?) in the parish of Logie Buchan, called "Mains of Larty", so I bet he often "delved in the yard" too. "The Mains of Larty" sounds like a good title for a folk song to me. However, my GGG was named Alexander, not Jamie.

So, what exactly is a "Logie" in Scots dialect? I assume "Mains" means mansion or manor. How do the two terms differ?

And my great-great-grandmother was a domestic servant in the parish of Logie Buchan, at a (house?) called "Atrochic". Any ideas from the Scots contingent about what that name means? Or how to pronounce it?

And in honour of my GGG's, does anyone know of a Scots folksong about a farmhand courting one of the housemaids at a neighbouring mansion?

Cheers, Hester


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Subject: RE: Origins: Logie o' Buchan
From: Shonagh
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 04:00 PM

Hi, I'm from this part of the country, and really interested in researching things behind all the old bothy ballads.And the scots dialects used in them. I'm interested to see where this goes, unfortunately, i cant do any reseach just now ( i would go to the library and look up all the old census normally, if my library has them!) but im away off on holiday for a week and a bit. I'll check this thread when i get back, and please, feel free to contact me and i'll do the best i can to help!
Shona (17)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Logie o' Buchan
From: Hester
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 05:45 PM

Hi, Shona:

Enjoy your holiday! I look forward to continuing the discussion with you when you return.

Cheers, Hester


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Subject: RE: Origins: Logie o' Buchan
From: Strupag
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 01:06 PM

Hi Hester, again!
There are Logie all over Scotland and it's a reasonably popular surname.
They have their own Clan website ( sited in NY of course)
Try it here http://www.cnyscots.com/logan.html
There's actually a site with a bit more info here http://www.rampantscotland.com/clans/blclanlogan.htm
I think that the word Logie probably originated with the tendency in the Scottish east coast dialect to add "ie" onto many words.
Hence Lag (lagan-plural) would become Lagie.
Can't think of such a song just know although I'm sure there are many. Try, however, Bogie's Bonny Belle. It has a similar theme and Archie Fisher does a superb version


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Subject: RE: Origins: Logie o' Buchan
From: Hester
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 03:46 PM

Hi, Andy:

Thanks for those links. Aha, so "Logie" means "little hollow"!

Bogie's Bonny Belle is a nifty song, but it doesn't really fit my great-great-grandparents' situation. Their courtship was much more proper, and had a happy ending.

Cheers, Hester


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Subject: RE: Origins: Logie o' Buchan
From: CET
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 10:15 PM

That's a great site for Greig's Scots Minstrelsie. Unfortunately, when I print a song, the last bar on each line is cut off. I suppose there's no way of avoiding that.

CET


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Subject: RE: Origins: Logie o' Buchan
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 11:25 PM

The way to avoid that is not to print from Internet Explorer; it does a very poor job. Both Netscape and Opera will print the page without unwanted cropping. Best, though, to save the image to your hard drive and use dedicated software for printing. You'll get far better results.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Logie o' Buchan
From: CET
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 09:05 PM

Thanks, I'll try that.

Edmund


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