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Who best represents English music?

autolycus 04 Mar 07 - 05:36 AM
Big Al Whittle 04 Mar 07 - 05:24 AM
Teribus 04 Mar 07 - 05:10 AM
Tim theTwangler 03 Mar 07 - 08:02 AM
GUEST 02 Mar 07 - 08:33 AM
GUEST 02 Mar 07 - 07:20 AM
The Sandman 01 Mar 07 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,Bardan 01 Mar 07 - 01:12 PM
greg stephens 01 Mar 07 - 01:04 PM
GUEST,ib48 01 Mar 07 - 12:54 PM
GUEST 28 Feb 07 - 12:52 PM
GUEST 28 Feb 07 - 12:46 PM
The Sandman 28 Feb 07 - 12:16 PM
Lizzie Cornish 28 Feb 07 - 08:47 AM
Lizzie Cornish 28 Feb 07 - 08:26 AM
Dave Hanson 28 Feb 07 - 08:20 AM
GUEST, Grimmy 28 Feb 07 - 07:32 AM
Mo the caller 28 Feb 07 - 02:00 AM
GUEST 27 Feb 07 - 05:22 PM
Andy Jackson 27 Feb 07 - 03:16 PM
Big Al Whittle 27 Feb 07 - 02:08 PM
Lucius 27 Feb 07 - 02:02 PM
AJR 27 Feb 07 - 01:46 PM
GUEST,JohnB 08 Apr 03 - 12:19 PM
GUEST 08 Apr 03 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,Guest: English Jon out of Coma 08 Apr 03 - 09:16 AM
Snuffy 08 Apr 03 - 08:46 AM
GUEST,James 08 Apr 03 - 07:21 AM
GUEST,Bystander 08 Apr 03 - 06:05 AM
George Papavgeris 08 Apr 03 - 04:46 AM
greg stephens 08 Apr 03 - 03:28 AM
alanabit 08 Apr 03 - 02:42 AM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Apr 03 - 07:20 PM
greg stephens 07 Apr 03 - 06:24 PM
greg stephens 07 Apr 03 - 06:22 PM
Peg 07 Apr 03 - 01:36 PM
George Papavgeris 07 Apr 03 - 01:00 PM
Hester 07 Apr 03 - 12:41 PM
GUEST,James 07 Apr 03 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,JohnB 07 Apr 03 - 12:19 PM
Peg 07 Apr 03 - 12:06 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 03 - 09:50 AM
Dave Bryant 07 Apr 03 - 06:55 AM
Chanteyranger 07 Apr 03 - 03:48 AM
GUEST,Barrie Day 07 Apr 03 - 02:21 AM
GUEST 06 Apr 03 - 08:47 PM
Malcolm Douglas 06 Apr 03 - 08:35 PM
Herga Kitty 06 Apr 03 - 01:58 PM
Steve Benbows protege 06 Apr 03 - 01:53 PM
Herga Kitty 06 Apr 03 - 12:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: autolycus
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 05:36 AM

Repetition,teribus.



   This thread seems to me now to have answered the question, on the assumptions that:-

   a)   the question can correctly be answered by lots of names - there's nothing in the question that means the answer has to be just one,      and

   b)   the question could have been "Whose music most proclaims itself to be English?" and the questioner's meaning would be the same.


   I'd repeat the vote for Anon. and Trad. on the grounds that they are least likely to have had non-English influences.

   (Insofar,that is. as uninfluenced English is a coherent,sensible concept. So 'least likely' is a vital phrase.)



    [I wonder where the original qhestioner be,and if they be alright]


      Ivor


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 05:24 AM

Of course the answer is in the title - The Who!

Quintessentially English. turn it up to 11!


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 05:10 AM

alanabit - 05 Apr 03 - 02:35 AM

"McGrath of Harlow - and he's Irish. Then again, our best general was Wellesly - and he was Irish too!"

When someone mentioned his Irish nationality to Wellington, he came out with the statement, "Just because a man is born in a stable, it does not make him a horse".


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 08:02 AM

PS: Thanks Breezy, I don't think England is ready to hand over stewardship of its music to the cradle of civilisation yet, though ;->
As you say George we Brits are too proud to let the Africans take it over just yet.
I suppose you would have to define Britishness wouldnt you ?
And that is different to every man and his dog on the planet.
I would Say that with "Freinds like these" and songs as good as that We identify a little of what we would hope Britishness is in the things we admire and take it for ourselves.
LIke the Empire for Example.
George I will give the cradle of European Civilisation.
LOL


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 08:33 AM

DJs


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 07:20 AM

Rambling Sid Rumpo


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 01:16 PM

harry cox.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 01:12 PM

For a horrible moment I thought someone had written Rolf Harris, but it turned out to be Roy. Thank God!


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 01:04 PM

Vaughan Williams, Holst, Elgar, Delius. The quintessential English composers of the 20th century, not an English surname in sight! Highly mongrel country.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 12:54 PM

Definately Ray Davies,the kinks


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 12:52 PM

Martin Carthy gets my vote. He's got more LPs and CDs out than anyone else on the previous lists. Also his involvement with other group projects is what most performers would accomplish in 2 or 3 lifetimes.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 12:46 PM

Anyone apart from the english it seems


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 12:16 PM

John Cage.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 08:47 AM

B***** forgot to blue clicky thingy! :0)

Albion Heart


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 08:26 AM

Show of Hands! :0) :0) :0)

Seth Lakeman!

And Ashley Hutchings!

Fairport Convention

Coope Boyes & Simpson

Martin Carthy

Bob Copper

Norma Waterson

Eliza Carthy

Jim Causley

Jim Moray

Jackie Oates

Mike Waterson

Witches of Elswick

Demon Barbers

Peter Bellamy

Tim Van Eyken

Mawkin

John Kirkpatrick



And more than a few on here too!


Albion Heart:
http://www.myspace.com/samandlizzie


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 08:20 AM

I notice the name Richard Thompson keeps popping up, as good as he is it's all pan American.

eric


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST, Grimmy
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 07:32 AM

Handel (yes, I know, but thats the thing really, we're a mongrel race)

You don't need to be English to 'represent English music'.

Max Bruch's Scottish Fantasy is more 'scottish' than any scots composer managed.

Some of the most quintessentially 'english' films ever made were directed by Emeric Pressburger.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 02:00 AM

The best thing about English music is its variety.
Strawhead / Alistair Anderson / Johny Collins
Byrd / Handel (yes, I know, but thats the thing really, we're a mongrel race)


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 05:22 PM

pip and merry


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 03:16 PM

Well I read all the way through and have to add a couple of names:

Tom and Barbara Brown

When they perform you know why we love the songs.

Andy


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 02:08 PM

Where are we going to send the lucky winner to represent us.

If this liasion position is with Northern Ireland - Margaret Thatcher has a lot of experience.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Lucius
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 02:02 PM

Go to the list that has "Rolling Stone's Top 100 Guitarists of all Time" and pick out the ones that sound English. That, or narrow your term, "English music" down a bit.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: AJR
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 01:46 PM

Sting singing Dowland song (the instrumental version on lute is Earl of Essex galliard (I thnk) was a pleasant surprise I have herd Peter Pears singing it and Alfred Deller)


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 12:19 PM

Hi Hester, we are not too far from the big TO, basically Orangeville area. We don't get out too much, mostly small local stuff. Brampton FF, Millrace in Cambridge. The Morris things in Toronto. The group is called Triangl. There usd to be 8 of us in a group called Octamerous, we got around a bit more in our 8 years together. Say hi if we meet, there again how will we know each other. I have a beard, the two ladies don't.
JohnB


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 10:32 AM

Snuffy, the thread says 'Who best represents English Music', nothing about folk songs. Also is it English music today or English music two hundred years ago, Purcell or Fat Boy Slim?


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,Guest: English Jon out of Coma
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 09:16 AM

I thought it was me. ;)

Anyway, at least my computer seems to work now.

Cheers

EJ


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 08:46 AM

If the 'man in the street' was asked to name a folk song, it would probably be from the Dubliners, or else something he learned in primary school (from the C#, RVW etc collections)


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 07:21 AM

The Guy next to me says Martin Carthy.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,Bystander
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 06:05 AM

Almost every singer/muso on the folk scene seems to have been nominated on this thread but if you asked the 'man in the street' I doubt if more than one in a thousand would have heard of any of them. Out of interest, who would the 'man in the street' nominate? If you are at work now, ask the persons next to you and let us know.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 04:46 AM

Surely, place of birth or passport is no hindrance to representing the music of country X...Martyn W-R does a fair job of representing Aussie music, for example, and so does Eric B, though Sussex- and Scotland-born respectively.

So I'd say let Dowland's nomination stand, wherever his mum happened to be when she gave birth.

Otherwise we're but a small step from bigotry and pigeonholing


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 03:28 AM

Not so much of the "old" thank you, alanabit!


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 02:42 AM

Ray Davies - there's an interesting choice from an old folker. Yet I can hardly think of anyone who is more archetypally English or does such excellent character sketches of modern English people.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 07:20 PM

Accounts differ; Dowland's early years are not well documented. I think he's generally considered now to have been born in London or Westminster, though Grattan Flood claimed that he was Irish (Grattan Flood also claimed that Sumer is Icumen In and God Save the King were Irish tunes; he is a bit of an embarrassment to serious scholars of Irish music), and that claim seems to have seeped into "received wisdom" in some cases.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 06:24 PM

I'd like to have put John Dowland in, but I dont believe he was English.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 06:22 PM

Ray Davies of the Kinks and Vaughan Williams for "known author "music.
the people of England for the folk.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Peg
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 01:36 PM

thanks for the info on Paul, Hester! He was in Boston not long agao in fact and I really wish I'd made the effort to see the show. I will definitely get that CD...

I saw Dave Webber and Annie Fentiman at a house concert a few months ago. They were great, although I admit I do get sick of hearing their songs too often...when they were touring locally the local Celtic music show just played a couple of their songs to death until I wanted to scream (mainly that one about "carve the music of the wind into the wood")...theirs is music to be enjoyed for its uniqueness, and yet judging from the people at the house concert, everyone has listened to is all often enough that they know it all by heart...which makes me think they compose these "new traditional" songs for their "sing-along" appeal, which rubs me the wrong way, somehow...like penning a sure-fire top 40 tune...maybe it's just me. I'd like to hear them do more actual traditional music...


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 01:00 PM

Oh, boy, what a question...the dreaded "List Mania" at work. It doesn't make for good TV, why should it make good reading or conversation subject? And I did read through the thread, so what does that make me... But two names are conspicuous by their absence, to my taste: DAVE WEBBER & ANNI FENTIMAN.

Why? Let's see..
- representing the West and North East of England as they do, they provide the widest coverage both in terms of material and accents
- they represent English music not only in the UK, but internationally; they are pretty well known in the US and Canada, for example
- they show a fine sensitivity to traditional material and are both active in promoting traditional English music (for example through their work with Living Tradition)
- Dave has penned some wonderful songs that are widely sung in folk clubs, and has been in the (un)enviable position of not being able to register for copyright his "'Obby 'Oss" May song because it was deemed "traditional" by the know-alls. And he didn't have to be dead first, even!

Oh, and they're bloody great of course!

PS: Thanks Breezy, I don't think England is ready to hand over stewardship of its music to the cradle of civilisation yet, though ;->


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Subject: RE: Paul Weller & Canadian "English" music
From: Hester
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 12:41 PM

Peg wrote:

>>>And Paul Weller! A college friend turned me on to The Jam; then I even liked The Style Council! I saw him in concert about five years ago; very 70s retro and soulful rock souding; he will always be a great performer!<<<

Hi, Peg:

I saw Paul Weller perform here just a couple months ago, and he is in absolutely top form! If you get a chance to see him again, it would be well worth it. He's currently performing material from his entire career, and he "borrowed" the main half of Ocean Colour Scene for his back-up band. They absolutely rocked the house for a full 2 1/2 hr set. I was completely infatuated with Paul Weller as a teenager in the late 70s, and now I've fallen for him again. Strange how sexy silver hair looks to me these days. If you don't get a chance to see him in concert, the new album "Illumination" is brilliant, with some very folky/pastoral pieces.

And John wrote:

>>>In my immediate area of Canada, unfortunately the blame [for English music] rests on myself, my wife and a friend of ours.<<<

Hi, John:

Do you play in the Toronto area?

One of my favourite local English folkies (with Irish roots as well) is October Browne .

Cheers Hester
[Yowza: the wind's so strong today it's making the house creak like I've got burglers or ghosts in the attic!]


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 12:37 PM

Folk....Frankie Armstrong, Martin Carthy, The Watersons,Eliza Carthy, June Tabor, Steeleye Span, Fairport, Ashley Hutchins, Richard Thompson, Katherine Tickell, Shirley Collins, Maddy Prior,Dave Swarbrick,Nick Drake , Pentangle. Probably lots that have not come instantly to mind.

Classica.. Tallis, Purcell, Downland, Elgar, Vaughn-Williams.

Pop..Vera Lynn, Gracie Fields, Petula Clarke, Sandy Denny(Folk as well). Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, Dave Cousins of Strawbs, Pink Flyod,The Beatles,Kate Bush,Richard Thompson.Again, there are so many who could be named.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 12:19 PM

In my immediate area of Canada, unfortunately the blame rests on myself, my wife and a friend of ours.
JohnB


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Peg
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 12:06 PM

I like Hester's choices!!!

My band is performing an Anne Briggs song with me singing the lead (Go Your Way). I'd like to hear more of her, beautiful stuff.

Nick Drake, now there's someone who left us too soon...thanks to Volkswagen for giving his post-humous record sales a boost...

And Paul Weller! A college friend turned me on to The Jam; then I even liked The Style Council! I saw him in concert about five years ago; very 70s retro and soulful rock souding; he will always be a great performer!


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 09:50 AM

Barrie,
Bummer about the op, though I am sure you'd rather be Miskining really!
You are very kind to speak so highly of our clan! Tamsyn (eldest daughter, 12) sang her own composition at Singin' Spring the weekend before last, and though a tad progressive for my taste, she sang beautifully and was well received by a room full of adults. I have a lot to be proud of family wise at the moment, makes up for all the times I have had to sidle embarrassed out of concerts with stroppy children bored to death with keeping quiet.
Whist feathering each others nests, my friend let me say what a fine voice you yourself and your good lady are blessed with - More a well sung than unsung hero!
We shall see you at Miskin, and I'll chat to you there about workshopping!
I have a magnetic mat for you to sit on for the weekend!
Cheers,
Lucy


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 06:55 AM

Some more composers to join the "Classical" list:

George Butterworth
Percy Grainger
Gerald Finzi

Perhaps if we're referring to tradition English folk music we should think about the many people who helped to collect and collate the vast amount of material which we have - besides those who have already been mentioned as composers or performers:

Sharp
Child
Karpeles
Kennedy
Gardner
Hammond
Baring-Gould
Broadwood
etc


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 03:48 AM

For classical, Arthur Sullivan wasn't mentioned, so I'll mention him, just because I think any list of top English composers should include him. Though his "serius" music is generally considered not very consequential, his G&S works will probably endure for many more generations. Hard to imagine Gilbert's words with anyone else's music enduring as well.

Chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,Barrie Day
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 02:21 AM

I agree wholeheartidly with you Lucy, without these unsung heroes the Folk Scene as we know it would not exist,what a catastrophy that would be.

Incidently, WELL DONE Kev, your recognition is not before time and whilst we are at it lets not forget the rest of this family, Lucy, the girls and Kev's Dad, without them the scene would be missing out and such nice people to boot.

Hope to see you all at either Miskin(I am going after all,surgery cancelled) or Cotswold Capers, What about that Corn Dolly workshop Lucy?!!!!!!!

Baz


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 08:47 PM

My other half Kevin Burrow - He won the Devon song Competition at Crediton Folk Festival this weekend, and when I last checked Devon was still in England! (Boy! was I proud!!)
Whilst on the subject, let's not forget all those great singers and musicians who perpetuate the tradition by playing and singing English traditional Music around the country at various clubs, sessions, festivals and concerts throughout the year, they represent it to their best.
Cheers, Lucy


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 08:35 PM

True; but he has sung mostly English material, and (like John Martyn) the residual Scottish accent doesn't appear in his singing. Mind you, I wouldn't consider either of them particularly representative of any style or genre apart from their own, rather idiosyncratic, ones.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 01:58 PM

Bert Jansch isn't English.....


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 01:53 PM

Bert Jansch, Martin Carthy, Steve Benbow, Cyril Tawney, Ashley Hutchings.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 12:18 PM

Brian Watson
Damien Barber


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