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Who best represents English music?

GUEST 04 Apr 03 - 06:06 PM
Clinton Hammond 04 Apr 03 - 06:07 PM
GUEST,Q 04 Apr 03 - 06:13 PM
Noreen 04 Apr 03 - 06:34 PM
GUEST 04 Apr 03 - 06:48 PM
Nemesis 04 Apr 03 - 06:52 PM
nutty 04 Apr 03 - 06:56 PM
nutty 04 Apr 03 - 06:58 PM
GUEST 04 Apr 03 - 07:24 PM
toadfrog 04 Apr 03 - 08:07 PM
GUEST,Q 04 Apr 03 - 08:10 PM
Padre 04 Apr 03 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,Jon 04 Apr 03 - 09:03 PM
alanabit 05 Apr 03 - 02:35 AM
John MacKenzie 05 Apr 03 - 04:08 AM
Allan Dennehy 05 Apr 03 - 04:26 AM
treewind 05 Apr 03 - 05:08 AM
Harry Basnett 05 Apr 03 - 05:46 AM
Peg 05 Apr 03 - 01:39 PM
GUEST,Eliza C 05 Apr 03 - 01:51 PM
KateG 05 Apr 03 - 01:57 PM
*daylia* 05 Apr 03 - 02:21 PM
curmudgeon 05 Apr 03 - 03:16 PM
Little Robyn 05 Apr 03 - 03:41 PM
nutty 05 Apr 03 - 06:01 PM
Benboww 05 Apr 03 - 06:08 PM
CraigS 05 Apr 03 - 06:32 PM
Padre 05 Apr 03 - 06:36 PM
Benjamin 05 Apr 03 - 07:23 PM
Strupag 05 Apr 03 - 07:54 PM
ooh-aah 05 Apr 03 - 11:42 PM
breezy 06 Apr 03 - 08:38 AM
GUEST,The Burren Ranger 06 Apr 03 - 08:44 AM
Santa 06 Apr 03 - 11:05 AM
Herga Kitty 06 Apr 03 - 11:58 AM
Hester 06 Apr 03 - 12:09 PM
Herga Kitty 06 Apr 03 - 12:18 PM
Steve Benbows protege 06 Apr 03 - 01:53 PM
Herga Kitty 06 Apr 03 - 01:58 PM
Malcolm Douglas 06 Apr 03 - 08:35 PM
GUEST 06 Apr 03 - 08:47 PM
GUEST,Barrie Day 07 Apr 03 - 02:21 AM
Chanteyranger 07 Apr 03 - 03:48 AM
Dave Bryant 07 Apr 03 - 06:55 AM
GUEST 07 Apr 03 - 09:50 AM
Peg 07 Apr 03 - 12:06 PM
GUEST,JohnB 07 Apr 03 - 12:19 PM
GUEST,James 07 Apr 03 - 12:37 PM
Hester 07 Apr 03 - 12:41 PM
George Papavgeris 07 Apr 03 - 01:00 PM
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Subject: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:06 PM

Martin Carthy?

Paul McCartney?


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:07 PM

Ummm... The English?


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:13 PM

Thomas Tallis


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:34 PM

Edward Elgar


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:48 PM

The New Scorpion Band / The Mellstock Band - Both wonderful purveyors of the traditional 'village band' sound and music - and superb musicians and folklorists to their dredit. Beyond the pale.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Nemesis
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:52 PM

Belshazzar's Feast .. (?)


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: nutty
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:56 PM

What


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: nutty
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:58 PM

What exactly is meant by "English Music"

Thomas Ravenscroft?

Ralph Vaughan Williams?

'Pop' Maynard?

A.L.Lloyd?


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:24 PM

Vera Lynn and Gracie Fields.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: toadfrog
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 08:07 PM

G.F. Handel
Purcell
Dowland


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 08:10 PM

William Byrd
The Beetles
Gilbert and Sullivan


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Padre
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 08:26 PM

For English music composed in the 'classical music' style:
William Byrd
Thomas Tallis
Henry Purcell
Sir Arthur Sullivan
Ralph Vaughan Williams
Gustav Holst

For English 'folk' music:
A L Lloyd
The Copper Family
Eric Ilott
Johnny Collins & Jim McGhean(sp?)
Shanty Jack


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 09:03 PM

Messers Anon and Trad.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 02:35 AM

McGrath of Harlow - and he's Irish. Then again, our best general was Wellesly - and he was Irish too!


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 04:08 AM

Shirley and Dolly Collins
Giok


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 04:26 AM

Hey, how come nobody has mentioned Richard Thomsen?


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: treewind
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 05:08 AM

Clinton: one of the problems with English music that that most of the English have never heard of it. Onlookers at a trad music session in a pub here are as often as not inclined to assume it's Irish.

Funny how many came up only with composers of art music - is that tongue in cheek (taking the question at face value and ignoring the 'folk ' context of Mudcat) or is it because English folk music is still so invisible (inaudible?)

The first names that springs to mind for me is John Kirkpatrick, but as a representative with world wide visibility Martin Carthy is probably a pretty good candidate, as is Eliza.

As for art music, I'll second that vote for Purcell.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 05:46 AM

Oh dear.....


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Peg
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:39 PM

Ian Anderson


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,Eliza C
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:51 PM

Tanks treewind.
   John Spiers and Jon Boden, and Will Duke and Dan Quinn.
cheers,
e x


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: KateG
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:57 PM

>>McGrath of Harlow - and he's Irish. Then again, our best general was Wellesly - and he was Irish too!<<

That's OK, St. Patrick was an Englishman BG :)


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 02:21 PM

The Spice Girls?   (innocently batting eyelashes)

daylia


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: curmudgeon
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 03:16 PM

If we are talking about folk music, surely A. L. Lloyd must rise to the top of this list of luminaries. Let us also remember those fine English singers on this side of the ocean, Louis Killen, John Roberts, Tony Barrand and David Jones.

-- Tom


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 03:41 PM

The Watersons! (And Martin, of course).


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: nutty
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 06:01 PM

JIM WILKINSON and singers of his ilk.

Jim has been involved in folk music for more years than he can remember. Together with his wife Mu, he has run folk clubs and folk charity events. His whole family are accomplished folk singers and his love of folk music has been passed down through the generations so that he now has a great-granddaughter coming and singing at the folk club.

No doubt there are many others up and down the country (Tony and Pearl O'Neill spring to mind) who have been totally committed to the music without thought of reward. These, to me, are the representatives that we should be applauding.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Benboww
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 06:08 PM

Kate

St Patrick was a Welshman


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: CraigS
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 06:32 PM

The Copper Family

Boosey and Hawkes

Eric Clapton

Lord Lloyd Webber

The Queen

Lemmy

Noel Coward


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Padre
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 06:36 PM

St. Patrick was a Welshman born
He came from decent people
He built a church in Carlow town
And on it put a steeple


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Benjamin
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 07:23 PM

John Dowland


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Strupag
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 07:54 PM

Vin Garbut
Tony Rose (sadly no longer with us)
Cyril Tawny
June Tabor
Alan Taylor
Dave Goulder(Although in Scotland for 30 years he still wears a hankercheif with knots on it while listening to the cricket)
Adge Cutler
Jez Lowe
Martin Carthy (and his wife & lassie)
The Watersons
The Copper Family
The Kipper Family
Richard Thompson
Ralph MacTell

Och I could go on but it's not a bad list for a Scotsman!


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: ooh-aah
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 11:42 PM

Nb: Someone once asked Arthur Wellesley (note spelling)if he was Irish, since he was born in Ireland. His reply was that being born in a stable does not make one a horse! After he won the battle of Talavera, his brother was consulted regarding a good title, and plumped for Wellington, as the family had come from that area in Somerset.
    As for English music, one undersevedly overlooked English classical composer is Thomas Arne. 'The Morning' is too gorgeous for this world!


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: breezy
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 08:38 AM

Robin Laing
Eric Bogle
Dick Gaughan
Dougie Maclean
and the Corrie who wrote 'Flower of Scotland' ?williamson?


Not bad for a celt !!! in England

but then they aint English but they write in English

White bear tonight all participants welcome.

Andy Irvine next Friday at St Albans

and


George Papavgeris writes very good English Folk songs

3rd CD now available


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,The Burren Ranger
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 08:44 AM

Was it Wilde? ..or perhaps Shaw..who once wrote "The English dislike music intensely...but they like the noise it makes"
Mmmmmm....
tbr


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Santa
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 11:05 AM

Among the best current practitioners of traditional English song and music, and not mentioned yet, there are Jane and Amanda Threlfall (with Martin Ellison and Roger Edwards).


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 11:58 AM

Roy Harris
Jeff Wesley
Will Noble


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Hester
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 12:09 PM

Traditional Folk:

Anne Briggs -- Her material was predominantly English, although she did have a fondness for the occasional Irish song.

Contemporary Folk:

Nick Drake -- Who better conveyed the subtle pastoral beauty of northern England?

Rock:

Paul Weller -- Too English to be popular in North America, he beautifully combines lyrics of poignant social and personal observation with punk, soul, and folk music sounds.

Cheers, Hester


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 12:18 PM

Brian Watson
Damien Barber


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 01:53 PM

Bert Jansch, Martin Carthy, Steve Benbow, Cyril Tawney, Ashley Hutchings.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 01:58 PM

Bert Jansch isn't English.....


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 08:35 PM

True; but he has sung mostly English material, and (like John Martyn) the residual Scottish accent doesn't appear in his singing. Mind you, I wouldn't consider either of them particularly representative of any style or genre apart from their own, rather idiosyncratic, ones.


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 08:47 PM

My other half Kevin Burrow - He won the Devon song Competition at Crediton Folk Festival this weekend, and when I last checked Devon was still in England! (Boy! was I proud!!)
Whilst on the subject, let's not forget all those great singers and musicians who perpetuate the tradition by playing and singing English traditional Music around the country at various clubs, sessions, festivals and concerts throughout the year, they represent it to their best.
Cheers, Lucy


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,Barrie Day
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 02:21 AM

I agree wholeheartidly with you Lucy, without these unsung heroes the Folk Scene as we know it would not exist,what a catastrophy that would be.

Incidently, WELL DONE Kev, your recognition is not before time and whilst we are at it lets not forget the rest of this family, Lucy, the girls and Kev's Dad, without them the scene would be missing out and such nice people to boot.

Hope to see you all at either Miskin(I am going after all,surgery cancelled) or Cotswold Capers, What about that Corn Dolly workshop Lucy?!!!!!!!

Baz


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 03:48 AM

For classical, Arthur Sullivan wasn't mentioned, so I'll mention him, just because I think any list of top English composers should include him. Though his "serius" music is generally considered not very consequential, his G&S works will probably endure for many more generations. Hard to imagine Gilbert's words with anyone else's music enduring as well.

Chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 06:55 AM

Some more composers to join the "Classical" list:

George Butterworth
Percy Grainger
Gerald Finzi

Perhaps if we're referring to tradition English folk music we should think about the many people who helped to collect and collate the vast amount of material which we have - besides those who have already been mentioned as composers or performers:

Sharp
Child
Karpeles
Kennedy
Gardner
Hammond
Baring-Gould
Broadwood
etc


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 09:50 AM

Barrie,
Bummer about the op, though I am sure you'd rather be Miskining really!
You are very kind to speak so highly of our clan! Tamsyn (eldest daughter, 12) sang her own composition at Singin' Spring the weekend before last, and though a tad progressive for my taste, she sang beautifully and was well received by a room full of adults. I have a lot to be proud of family wise at the moment, makes up for all the times I have had to sidle embarrassed out of concerts with stroppy children bored to death with keeping quiet.
Whist feathering each others nests, my friend let me say what a fine voice you yourself and your good lady are blessed with - More a well sung than unsung hero!
We shall see you at Miskin, and I'll chat to you there about workshopping!
I have a magnetic mat for you to sit on for the weekend!
Cheers,
Lucy


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: Peg
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 12:06 PM

I like Hester's choices!!!

My band is performing an Anne Briggs song with me singing the lead (Go Your Way). I'd like to hear more of her, beautiful stuff.

Nick Drake, now there's someone who left us too soon...thanks to Volkswagen for giving his post-humous record sales a boost...

And Paul Weller! A college friend turned me on to The Jam; then I even liked The Style Council! I saw him in concert about five years ago; very 70s retro and soulful rock souding; he will always be a great performer!


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 12:19 PM

In my immediate area of Canada, unfortunately the blame rests on myself, my wife and a friend of ours.
JohnB


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 12:37 PM

Folk....Frankie Armstrong, Martin Carthy, The Watersons,Eliza Carthy, June Tabor, Steeleye Span, Fairport, Ashley Hutchins, Richard Thompson, Katherine Tickell, Shirley Collins, Maddy Prior,Dave Swarbrick,Nick Drake , Pentangle. Probably lots that have not come instantly to mind.

Classica.. Tallis, Purcell, Downland, Elgar, Vaughn-Williams.

Pop..Vera Lynn, Gracie Fields, Petula Clarke, Sandy Denny(Folk as well). Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, Dave Cousins of Strawbs, Pink Flyod,The Beatles,Kate Bush,Richard Thompson.Again, there are so many who could be named.


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Subject: RE: Paul Weller & Canadian "English" music
From: Hester
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 12:41 PM

Peg wrote:

>>>And Paul Weller! A college friend turned me on to The Jam; then I even liked The Style Council! I saw him in concert about five years ago; very 70s retro and soulful rock souding; he will always be a great performer!<<<

Hi, Peg:

I saw Paul Weller perform here just a couple months ago, and he is in absolutely top form! If you get a chance to see him again, it would be well worth it. He's currently performing material from his entire career, and he "borrowed" the main half of Ocean Colour Scene for his back-up band. They absolutely rocked the house for a full 2 1/2 hr set. I was completely infatuated with Paul Weller as a teenager in the late 70s, and now I've fallen for him again. Strange how sexy silver hair looks to me these days. If you don't get a chance to see him in concert, the new album "Illumination" is brilliant, with some very folky/pastoral pieces.

And John wrote:

>>>In my immediate area of Canada, unfortunately the blame [for English music] rests on myself, my wife and a friend of ours.<<<

Hi, John:

Do you play in the Toronto area?

One of my favourite local English folkies (with Irish roots as well) is October Browne .

Cheers Hester
[Yowza: the wind's so strong today it's making the house creak like I've got burglers or ghosts in the attic!]


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Subject: RE: Who best represents English music?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 01:00 PM

Oh, boy, what a question...the dreaded "List Mania" at work. It doesn't make for good TV, why should it make good reading or conversation subject? And I did read through the thread, so what does that make me... But two names are conspicuous by their absence, to my taste: DAVE WEBBER & ANNI FENTIMAN.

Why? Let's see..
- representing the West and North East of England as they do, they provide the widest coverage both in terms of material and accents
- they represent English music not only in the UK, but internationally; they are pretty well known in the US and Canada, for example
- they show a fine sensitivity to traditional material and are both active in promoting traditional English music (for example through their work with Living Tradition)
- Dave has penned some wonderful songs that are widely sung in folk clubs, and has been in the (un)enviable position of not being able to register for copyright his "'Obby 'Oss" May song because it was deemed "traditional" by the know-alls. And he didn't have to be dead first, even!

Oh, and they're bloody great of course!

PS: Thanks Breezy, I don't think England is ready to hand over stewardship of its music to the cradle of civilisation yet, though ;->


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