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Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs

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demonstate against the bill (21)
PELs - Protest invitation 18/20 July (19)
Licensing Bill UK - Urgent help please. (89)
Anti PEL benefit gig Harlow 17.5.03 (8)
BIG Session at The Sloop, Barton, Lincs. (24)


GUEST,ET 19 Mar 03 - 03:32 PM
GUEST,ET 19 Mar 03 - 03:33 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 19 Mar 03 - 04:00 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 19 Mar 03 - 04:14 PM
breezy 19 Mar 03 - 04:23 PM
GUEST,ET 19 Mar 03 - 04:31 PM
The Shambles 19 Mar 03 - 05:37 PM
GUEST,ET 20 Mar 03 - 02:09 AM
KJ 20 Mar 03 - 05:22 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 20 Mar 03 - 05:51 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 20 Mar 03 - 05:56 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 20 Mar 03 - 05:59 AM
The DeanMeister 20 Mar 03 - 06:31 AM
Dave Bryant 20 Mar 03 - 07:16 AM
GUEST 20 Mar 03 - 07:47 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 20 Mar 03 - 07:52 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 20 Mar 03 - 07:53 AM
Skipjack K8 20 Mar 03 - 07:55 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 20 Mar 03 - 08:06 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 20 Mar 03 - 09:34 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 20 Mar 03 - 09:36 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 20 Mar 03 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,Jon 20 Mar 03 - 09:59 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 20 Mar 03 - 10:03 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 20 Mar 03 - 10:07 AM
The Shambles 20 Mar 03 - 10:29 AM
GUEST,EtV@work 20 Mar 03 - 10:37 AM
GUEST,Jon 20 Mar 03 - 10:40 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 20 Mar 03 - 10:42 AM
ET 20 Mar 03 - 11:06 AM
Pied Piper 20 Mar 03 - 11:41 AM
Bullfrog Jones 20 Mar 03 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 20 Mar 03 - 12:05 PM
The Shambles 20 Mar 03 - 12:25 PM
GUEST,Banjoman 20 Mar 03 - 12:25 PM
KJ 20 Mar 03 - 01:35 PM
GUEST,Bloke in the corner 20 Mar 03 - 03:37 PM
ET 20 Mar 03 - 05:39 PM
GUEST,Bloke in the corner 20 Mar 03 - 06:47 PM
smallpiper 20 Mar 03 - 08:44 PM
Bassic 20 Mar 03 - 09:10 PM
Bassic 20 Mar 03 - 09:12 PM
GUEST,ossonflags 21 Mar 03 - 03:14 AM
ET 21 Mar 03 - 03:43 AM
Dave Bryant 21 Mar 03 - 04:46 AM
The Shambles 21 Mar 03 - 06:41 AM
The DeanMeister 21 Mar 03 - 06:45 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 21 Mar 03 - 07:40 AM
ET 21 Mar 03 - 07:49 AM
GUEST,Jon 21 Mar 03 - 08:05 AM
IanC 21 Mar 03 - 08:10 AM
GUEST,Jon 21 Mar 03 - 08:21 AM
daithi 21 Mar 03 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,johnbennetuk@yahoo.co.uk 21 Mar 03 - 10:19 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 21 Mar 03 - 11:15 AM
The Shambles 21 Mar 03 - 11:19 AM
Oaklet 21 Mar 03 - 01:48 PM
GUEST,Hamish Birchall 22 Mar 03 - 06:53 AM
ET 22 Mar 03 - 02:40 PM
GUEST,KT 22 Mar 03 - 04:11 PM
Oaklet 22 Mar 03 - 04:18 PM
The Shambles 22 Mar 03 - 04:31 PM
GUEST,KT 22 Mar 03 - 04:34 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 22 Mar 03 - 06:29 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 22 Mar 03 - 06:36 PM
GUEST 22 Mar 03 - 07:15 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 22 Mar 03 - 08:14 PM
Ian Darby 22 Mar 03 - 11:13 PM
ET 23 Mar 03 - 06:18 AM
GUEST,Jon 23 Mar 03 - 07:43 AM
Oaklet 23 Mar 03 - 10:18 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 23 Mar 03 - 10:32 AM
Banjo-Flower 23 Mar 03 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,KJ 23 Mar 03 - 07:35 PM
Doug Chadwick 24 Mar 03 - 02:09 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 24 Mar 03 - 03:32 AM
The DeanMeister 24 Mar 03 - 05:11 AM
GUEST,ossonflags 24 Mar 03 - 10:41 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 24 Mar 03 - 10:56 AM
ET 24 Mar 03 - 11:50 AM
Pied Piper 24 Mar 03 - 12:02 PM
The DeanMeister 24 Mar 03 - 12:30 PM
GUEST,Trevor Gilson 24 Mar 03 - 03:06 PM
ET 24 Mar 03 - 05:04 PM
GUEST,ossonflags 25 Mar 03 - 02:18 AM
Fossil 25 Mar 03 - 04:25 AM
KJ 25 Mar 03 - 05:02 AM
The Shambles 25 Mar 03 - 05:44 AM
The DeanMeister 25 Mar 03 - 06:07 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 25 Mar 03 - 06:26 AM
KJ 25 Mar 03 - 09:41 AM
The DeanMeister 25 Mar 03 - 11:59 AM
The DeanMeister 25 Mar 03 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,The Bloke in the Corner 25 Mar 03 - 01:53 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 25 Mar 03 - 06:50 PM
Oaklet 25 Mar 03 - 07:36 PM
smallpiper 25 Mar 03 - 08:04 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 25 Mar 03 - 08:14 PM
smallpiper 25 Mar 03 - 08:28 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 26 Mar 03 - 03:39 AM
bill\sables 26 Mar 03 - 04:06 AM
KJ 26 Mar 03 - 04:11 AM
KJ 26 Mar 03 - 04:17 AM
The DeanMeister 26 Mar 03 - 04:28 AM
The DeanMeister 26 Mar 03 - 04:45 AM
KJ 26 Mar 03 - 05:14 AM
Banjo-Flower 26 Mar 03 - 06:19 AM
GUEST,The Bloke in the Corner 26 Mar 03 - 06:26 AM
ET 26 Mar 03 - 01:06 PM
KJ 26 Mar 03 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 27 Mar 03 - 03:40 AM
GUEST,KJ 27 Mar 03 - 03:47 AM
smallpiper 27 Mar 03 - 04:27 AM
The DeanMeister 27 Mar 03 - 04:57 AM
The DeanMeister 27 Mar 03 - 05:17 AM
The Shambles 27 Mar 03 - 05:32 AM
Noreen 27 Mar 03 - 01:29 PM
Oaklet 27 Mar 03 - 02:46 PM
Skipjack K8 27 Mar 03 - 06:27 PM
KJ 28 Mar 03 - 08:02 AM
Raggytash 31 Mar 03 - 01:32 PM
smallpiper 01 Apr 03 - 02:56 AM
KJ 01 Apr 03 - 03:29 AM
daithi 01 Apr 03 - 04:41 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 01 Apr 03 - 04:50 AM
The DeanMeister 01 Apr 03 - 07:51 AM
daithi 01 Apr 03 - 09:11 AM
GUEST,Bloke in the Corner 01 Apr 03 - 01:08 PM
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Subject: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,ET
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:32 PM

I gather as Parliament debated Iraq the Music Police of North Lincs Council had other more sinister targets to consider and raided for the second week running, the Sloop at Barton. They had been the week before and "advised" the setting up of a folk club as a private club. This was done but the return visit disapproved the curtained off area and demanded a separate room. Attempts are being made with the Landlord to satisfy these demands. Maybe there are weapons of mass destruction around including the deadly piano accordian and maybe even the more leathal mandolin!

It is hoped to get this years old session going again next week but fear the arrival of an armoured personnel carrier from Scunthorpe!

Remember this - support the campaign to keep acoustic music away from licensing - make life hellish for your MP and make sure nothig slips under the smokescreen of war!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,ET
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:33 PM

I should have added that at last nights raid there were about 10 musicians and one other regular watching television in another bar!

Nice to now the council supports small pubs and businesses!!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:00 PM

bastards!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:14 PM

this council/goverment is a load of shit, i have been to this session loads of times, and usually there is only the folk people there, and it is in the middle of nowhere, so it can't be bothering any neighbours.anyway you cant even hear the music outside the pub anyway, , why cant these arseholes just piss off and mind there own bisiness?

john


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: breezy
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:23 PM

arrange with the landlord to use the area for a private party.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,ET
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:31 PM

And get jobsworth flung out - not a guest at the party!

Hope local press will be there next week when we hold session in private room - or musicians peering out from behind curtain!!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:37 PM

Perhaps it could be pointed out to the police that there is case-law under the current law that does make a distinction between paid 'performers' and pub customers 'solacing themselves with the music'?

As the distinction is something the new legislation is determined to change, perhaps we should all be fighting to establish it now, a little harder, rather than just waiting for the new law to wipe this vital distnction away?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,ET
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 02:09 AM

Could all local players think about going to the Sloop next week. Approaches are continuing about forming a "folk club" and I will keep you posted here.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:22 AM

We'll be there. I like the concept of comforting oneself with music & what a better place to do it in a pub where one has access to other forms of 'solace'. I'm afraid someone has got it in for 'The Sloop', & yes the absentee landlord is a b*****d by all accounts, but the present tenants are working hard to keep the place going & have been very welcoming, so it seems very unfair. Its a shame its not the middle of summer as we could have all played outside on the pavement, entering the pub for previously mentioned 'solace'. I wonder what laws we'd break then? Breathing probably!!!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:51 AM

Yes, a mass trespass seems like a good idea - particularly if you can get the press there. I'll do my utmost to be at the Sloop next week.

Fortunately for us in Beverley the East Riding seem to be much more laisez faire in their attitude although we are only a few miles away from Barton. I'd hate to think what the Lincs officers would make of the Folk Festival Fringe since only the Foresters and the Sun have music licences!!

Roger


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:56 AM

Where is Barton, I've tried to look it up on streetmap uk, but although it has numerous Bartons none is in Lincolnshire etc a Barton Cliff near South Ferriby.
I think I would like to take part in a mass sing-a-round next Tuesday


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:59 AM

Forget previous thread, that would be Barton Upon Humber, would it.
You'll have to excuse a Lancashire Lad for not knowing his geography of the East Side of the Pennines !!!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 06:31 AM

Count me in. Beverley muso's should maybe arrange to share a car? Any offers? This could be fun!!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 07:16 AM

Avoid advertising PTH there or they'll probably send in RSPCA inspectors as well !

Best of luck with it - It's too far for me to drive to from SE London.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 07:47 AM

Well good luck. I'm not convinced the protest will do any good though. I think once these mindless idiots get a bee in thier bonnet, that's it and the law quite unfairly is on there side. Odds are they will just dig there heels in more firmly.

That said, I quite like the idea of giving them a little extra hassle as long as the pub doesn't get into trouble. What day of the week is it? I've toyed with idea of persuading Pip up there for a while but it's a fair journey from North Norfolk.

If I did make it, in addition to my usual WMD, the banjo, I will make a special effort and include the even more deadly melodeon in case of heavy conflict. Pip is quite leathal on the piano, an excellent weapon if you can lure an unsuspecting group of people into a trap but lacking in portability and quite unsuitable for this type of short sharp attack.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 07:52 AM

Its on Tuesday Jon.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 07:53 AM

We need MCFat for a real weapon of Mass destruction

R


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 07:55 AM

Tuesday night, Jon. I'm in Brizzle all day, so have got to hot foot it to get a seat at the Sloop.


Eric, should we try and get some press rounded up for our 'spectacular'?

Perhaps we should melt down our musical metal parts for the war effort?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 08:06 AM

I could take one passenger but my little fiat punto will not even take my guitar in the boot so it has to go on the back seat - anyone got a volv estate?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:34 AM

I have got an idea=if the PEL people give us any hassle , we should tie them up and throw things at them, like tomatoes and hamster shit etc until they agree to stop hassling folkies,[we make them sign something, so they cant change there minds later), if they domt sign it, we just throw them in the river, and if anybody asks what happened to them, we just say that they jumped.john


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:36 AM

I got another idea, we should hit them with sticks, if they dont go away, we burn them on a big bonfire.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:47 AM

It's a well reported fact that MC Fat is no more, in fact I witnessed the disposal of his ashes on Saturday last. I would post the piccys but my steam driving computer won't have it


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:59 AM

LOL John. I think we would be better demonstrating how peacful we really are though.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:03 AM

Raggytash

There must be a ghost in the machine then because I had an email from MC this morning

R


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:07 AM

I reckon your'e probably right Jon, it was only an idea!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:29 AM

Well good luck. I'm not convinced the protest will do any good though. I think once these mindless idiots get a bee in thier bonnet, that's it and the law quite unfairly is on there side.

If these customers are unpaid and making music for their own ammusement, with the licesee's permission, the current law is not in fact on the side of the local authority.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,EtV@work
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:37 AM

'twould be difficult for me to get across and back, but I'll give it a go.

What happens exactly when the music police attend the scene?

An outline to be prepared for any outcome would be good.

Have you contacted local/national papers? They might see it a a bit of copy to fill up with when they are not reporting "the war".

Any Cat's solicitors? If someone can come up with hard copy, chapter and verse of the current law then there will be egg on the faces of the weapons inspectors.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:40 AM

Shambles, you seem more convinced than me about local authorities...

If you had worded your comment,

If these customers are unpaid and making music for their own ammusement, with the licesee's permission, the current law is not in fact on the side of the local community.

I would be in complete agreement.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:42 AM

i still cant do that slanted writing, but ETV said
"What happens when music police turn up?"
We tie them up, and threw things at them, then chuck them in the river, so make sure you bring some string with you.john


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:06 AM

Thanks for all these responses. Have told Laurie Collingwood who organises this session that supporters will turn up. John Bennet, professional busker with walking stick, has been in touch with the local paper. Will talk to him tonight to see if the landlord has hung a door on the room to the left as you go in. Its a bit small but ok. When you want a drink you will have to open the door and rush to the bar in case the one local is upset by the music coming out!

There will be a formal club I think, with minutes, an agenda, points of order so there may not be much time for playing!!!!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Pied Piper
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:41 AM

I'm confused. Is there going to be a session at the Sloop this Tuesday that I can attend to show solidarity, or is it a Folk club?
PP


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 12:05 PM

And who's bringing the hamster shit?

BJ


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 12:05 PM

Sir Roger that would be his hologram who was present when his ashed were finally disposed of on Saturday, he expressed his gratitude at the most moving ceremony. I also have photos of the hologram at the ceremony, but as I said earlier my computer is steam driven and I cannot email piccys to the web


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 12:25 PM

Hamish Birchall
Case law, which forms part of Robin Allen's opinion, determines that between 1899 and 1961 two musicians (or possibly more) could regularly play a pub piano and sing for their own amusement, unpaid, and this was not regarded as a licensable public entertainment (Brearley v Morley, 1899). The Licensing Bill would, of course, render both the activity and the piano a criminal offence unless licensed.

The DCMS
This point is disingenuous. In 1899, the courts held that impromptu performances by customers were not licensable, but performances given by a customer or any musician "for a consideration" were licensable. The Report of the Royal Commission on Licensing (England and Wales) 1929 – 1931 (paragraph 249) confirmed this interpretation of the law. Working musicians were therefore not exempted as claimed. The "two in a bar rule" was introduced by the Licensing Act 1964.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Banjoman
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 12:25 PM

Nil DESPERANDUM Carborundum etc - don't let the Bastards drive you down. I wish I was near enough to be there as I love a good fight against silly laws and the even stupider people who try to enforce them. Reminds me of an incident a few years ago when our local council made a substantial grant to help in running a local Folk FestivAl. On the first evening, the same councils environmental health officer arrived and promptly ordered the closure of most of the venues. We ignored her and enjoyed the inter departmental fight which ensued.
It would be great if everyone attending was arrested and subsequently appeared in court en masse - the press would have a field day.

Best of luck - keep us informed of any developments


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:35 PM

Hey up folks, before we all go rushing in, we ought to have a word with the landlord/landlady & get their permission. It will be on their heads that the mightily unfair arm of the law will come crashing down. Colin & I can have a saunter down tonight & talk to them if no-one has already done it.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Bloke in the corner
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 03:37 PM

Well, what a hornet's nest we stirred up! And how shameful it is that these people feel they have the right to jeopardise a tradition stretching back centuries, if not millennia. They simply don't have the moral right to stop unpaid accoustic instrumentalists from playing in a pub where they have permission and full support of the landlord. Sod them, they MUSTN'T win!
Pid Piper, we have had a SESSION at the Sloop for over five years, every Tuesday. It's NOT a folk club, no stars, no cliques and no-one hogging the limelight, just a group of friends and welcome visitors doing just about the only thing that separates us from the other animals - making music for pleasure! All are welcome, be part of a happy and peaceful (and in some cases talented) group. The business about the folk club is that we may HAVE to call ourselves a folk club, maybe even sign in etc. But we will NOT be spending valuable drinking & playing time talking about rules etc. Perhaps slagging off the music police, even giving interviews to the press.
And Eric, I'm NOT the organiser. There isn't one. The essence of the club is that it is an anarchic gathering without bosses or anyone telling you what to do. Just play bloody folk music!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:39 PM

well said bloke in the corner. Thats your authority - you have the corner seat and as you say thats as far as it is controlled.   Went to a meeting tonight at Hull City Council Licensing and health and safety man there. Both described the new act as a dogs breakfast - and there are the ones supposedly enforcing the thing.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Bloke in the corner
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 06:47 PM

Very pleased to be able to report that I have talked to the landlord at the Sloop. He will be delighted to welcome all folkies next Tuesday, starting arond 8.30, I've no doubt the usual pizza/sausage/chips or whatever will be offered, no doubt also the music police will be there, so we will have our own (nicely bare for the acoustics) room. Tony is of course on our side, the landlady was visibly upset when this nastiness happened on Tuesday, just imagine what would happen just about anywhere else in the world if musicians playing acoustic music were threatened! Imagine if it were Galway or Connemara! They WOULD chuck the buggers in the nearest large body of water!
But let's not be vindictive, our love of the oral music tradition is what matters, all the regulars would be delighted to have a packed session next Tuesday, and thank all visitors in advance for their support. This week Barton, next week....?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: smallpiper
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 08:44 PM

Barton! Me an Nik Nak will be there I might even bring me war pipes!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Bassic
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:10 PM

Sounds SCUD to me Smallpiper!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Bassic
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:12 PM

This is Barton on Tigris we are talking about isnt it?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,ossonflags
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 03:14 AM

Wonderfull!!!!!!!!!!

Me and Mrs.Ossonflags will be there.

If anyone wants a lift from 'ull,there are five spare seats going in the Punchmobile.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 03:43 AM

The landlord Tony, is adding a door to the small room to the left this weekend. All local folkies commanded to attend Next Tuesday. Sloop is in Barton on Humber - down the hill to town, turn left, round to the right, down to the junction and then left. River on right hand side, Sloop on left down road.

If enforcement police from Council turns up should be good with 25 musicians jammed in a room designed for 10.....all signed in and pretending to be a club.....listening to why she has taken it into her head to defy Home Office Guidance and enforce this nonesense, which is recognised as such by even Labour MPs who have signed EDM's etc


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 04:46 AM

Doesn't sound as though your session is much different from the one in the Cricketers at Greenwich, which was closed down by the Music Police until they got a PEL which cost them about £350. That only covers the pub for two sessions a week though - it would cost them something like £1,400 to have one for music every night.

Strange isn't it, the PEL is supposed to be to ensure that the premises are safe for entertainment and that it doesn't cause a nuisance - yet by paying more money the pub suddenly becomes "safe" for more evenings a week.

I wish you luck, but if your local council are like Greenwich and see PELs as a sort of entertainment tax way of making extra money, they'll threaten the landlord with legal action which he can't afford.

Incidently, I think you'll find that most "Music Police" are paid on a commission basis in the same way as the PRS snoopers were.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 06:41 AM

If the landlord did wish to continue without the pretence of the session being a private club, the fine would only be payable if they lost. Most licencees stop, obtain the PEL or plead guilty.

There is more than a possibilty, that this licensee could win, if they maintain that it is not licensable public entertainment and the participants are not 'performers'.

There is more than a chance that the authority would back off, if they were faced with proving the event was licensable, especially with good local support and media coverage.

Have the local councillors been approached?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 06:45 AM

Go on then, Rog.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 07:40 AM

the Wombat & I had intended coming over on Tuesday, subject to her dental appointments ............will there be room ?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 07:49 AM

In an epistle from DCMS dated MArch 2003 they say "in 1899 the courts held that impromptu performances by customers were not licensable, but performances given by a customer or any musician "for a consideration" were licensable. The report of the Royal Commission on Licensing (England and Wales) 1929-1931 (para 249) confirmed this interpretation of the law. Working musicians were not therefore exempted as claimed. The 2 in a bar rle was introduced by the licensing act 1964. The new bill abolishes this but introduces new arrangements whereby any pub may obtain permission to stage live musical events at no extra cost when obtaining permission to sell alchohol.

Translated into English I think this means that performances that are impromptu, by the performers, for themselves and without payment or free beer are not caught by the PEL provisions. I have many copies of this 6 page document issued by DCMS and will hand them out.

I think the point about telling councillors is a good one. I was at a meeting of another bigger council last night and their licensing and safety officers described the new bill as a "real dogs breakfast" as originally ste up but now a regurgitated mess!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 08:05 AM

ET, Im not sure how easy it is to claim that the same people meeting the same night in the same venue each week is impromptu. In this case, given the announcement here now (not to mention past mentions of the Sloop, e.g here), I think that position would be immpossible or at a minimum dangerous if anyone happened to get wind of Mudcat.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: IanC
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 08:10 AM

There's a question of interpretation here. As far as the legal documents go, it is the music which appears to be being described as impromptu not the event. I know that some local councils interpret it to mean the latter (they use advertising to "prove" it's not) but, presumably, the vast majority who don't involve themselves in this fact-twiddling are interpreting it in the same way I am.

:-)


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 08:21 AM

Thanks for the clarification Ian. Putting music as the critera makes a big difference!

Jon


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: daithi
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 09:44 AM

Surely the isuue of Payment is crucial to whether the event is licensable or not? From the above postings it seems to me that this is the best defence - any way of getting chapter and verse on this ready for Tuesday?
Also the involvement of local(opposition ) councillors, is good too - but only if we convince them that we have a case.
the media might be sympathetic anyway...sounds like a good case to launch a campaign "SOS - Save Our Session".
Dáithí


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,johnbennetuk@yahoo.co.uk
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 10:19 AM

Tony, for the licencee, Jill,has promised to attach a door tomorrow to seal us in. Those of us who are already members are ok to turn up. Those who are new have to sign in 48hrs before. Except that any muso who knows any member can sign in as a visitor the first night to stay and play. The bitch from the music police seemed not to be worried about a quid entrance(that would be raffled ), but she was anxious that no unknown member of the public should get in and even find it entertaining.
                                  JB


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 11:15 AM

She may well be a bitch but you will succeed in upsetting her far in the long term more by remaining cool, calm and collected and above all reasobable. If you loose your rag she will feel "justified" in her actions.
Reminds me of a Jeremy Taylor song............Jobsworth, jobsworth it's more than me jobs worth .................I might just resurrect that in her honour in time for Tuesday


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 11:19 AM

It is important to note that the word 'impromptu' does not appear in the case law in question. The event was a regular one and the crucial factor which decided the event was not public entertainment was that the customers making music were not paid.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Oaklet
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 01:48 PM

John Bennet. Hello. Why don't we just heavily disguise the thing so that it appears NOT to be entertaining to members of the public. I am prepared to bring my violin if you think that this approach might work. Get Daithi to bring one of his beautiful accomplices to stretch the truth just a little bit and scream over and over again that it sounds really, really bad and must stop. Then the buggers would be on the ropes.

And don't call my aunty Peg from North Lincs Trading Standards Council a bitch or I'll do a satirical mime about you, you varmint.

I'd forgotten what a simple please typing this rubbish can be. Marvelous9.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Hamish Birchall
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 06:53 AM

'Impromptu' is not the test

Like much else in the DCMS leaflets, their comment about the case law from 1899 is misleading. The law report in question (Brearley v Morley, 1899, 2 QB 121]makes it quite clear that the performances were not impromptu. They were planned, taking place 'on Saturdays, and sometimes on Fridays'. The initial prosecution was undertaken in the knowledge that the 'performers' were unpaid. The test at that time was not simply whether performers were paid; it was also whether the landlord 'provided' the entertainment. The reason the conviction was quashed on appeal was that the landlord was found NOT to have provided the entertainment. He merely allowed customers to use a piano in a bar for their own amusement.

It is also worth pointing out that the Government's Licensing Bill for the first time makes the provision of a piano for public use a criminal offence, unless licensed.

Hamish Birchall
Musicians' Union adviser - PEL reform


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 02:40 PM

Grateful for all this. Could I point out that the "club room" is not very big. Bring instruments that don't take much space - whistles ok, but trombones out. Fiddles only if they don't jump about Mr O.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 04:11 PM

Can I just point out that it is slightly unfair to call the woman from the council a bitch. She did not make the law. Yes she may be a 'jobsworth' but if she doesn't do her job, she would probably be unemployed & there's not many of us would like to be that with expenses such as mortgages, rent, food, utility bills...all those little luxuries. What I would like to know is who complained/reported us to the council in the first place?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Oaklet
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 04:18 PM

It was Colin Thompson.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 04:31 PM

Looking for people to blame and name-calling will not really help anyone much. As for the lady inquestion doing her job, it is a question of ensuring that she does it properly. It is her job to carry out the policy of her council - not to make it.

As has been pointed out, even the licensing law does not support the interpretation that the lady is using and it is also incompatible with the HRA.

The best approach is to contact (sensible) local councillors and inform them of the true legal position and to get them to change their policy and call the dogs off.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 04:34 PM

Ver good Dave.anyway, it looks like won't be allowed in as he doesn't play a small instrument!!!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 06:29 PM

heloo, woh is colin tomson, oaklet-find out wgho he is, and thow some thing at him, like tomatoes or ornges or hamster shit etc, and serves him right.john


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 06:36 PM

anyway, this new law is a big load of shit, why should youu haf to give youre name and a dress if you like to sing a flok song or polay intrunment, and sign things, big load of shit.goverment etc shouls do good things like help people etc, like build hospitalks and help old people, and give more money to scools and things like that. and not make trouble, ban music and making war etc, they are a big load of shit,.thisd is my ipimion.john

john


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 07:15 PM

John, you shouldn't. The most sensible system with regards to pubs IMO would be closer to the old one but without the need for a PEL at all. The landlord could/should convince magistrates that (s)he is responsable enough to run a licenced premisis. If (she) is responsable enough, it shoul be up to them to decide what is suitable for their premisis.

It is quite reasonable to back these requirements up with reasonable (and I believe to the most extent existing) laws, perhaps limiting the level of noise on a premisis, setting a maximum safe number of people of the premisis, expecting the licensee should ensure reasonable behaviour within and maybe outside his premisis, etc. Such measures should be applied equally and live entertainment should not be singled out especially when there are examples such as loud jukeboxes and wide screen tv far more likely to cause problems bt are exempt.

I believe this law, amongst other things demonstrates a clear case of favouritism towards the activities that put money into the pockets of those who already have money and am quite sick that a Labour government should have dreamed them up.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 08:14 PM

I thgibk you are exactly right Guest, i voted for this goverment, because i thought they would be good, and i thouhht they would be better than the conservative people, but now i think they are shit, folk music is my main hobby and they are tryting to ban it and give too many rules etc, if a few people go to pub and sing and play music, then so what, that is not dangerous! and they like to make war and kill people, already about more than a dozen english men got killed in this iraq war, this goverment is fucking stupid and really piss me off.ps i wonmt vot for them againd.john


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Ian Darby
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 11:13 PM

The local coppers are probably going up the wall.

They must have better things to do than persecute beer drinking herberts for playing a few tunes.

Regarding weapons of mass distraction, may I recommend bhodrans & banjos in the front line, and when the 'Folk Police' make their entrance you should all start humming 'Keep The Home Fires Burning, White Cliffs of Dover, etc,' to a solitary harmonica accompaniment

(They can't do you for humming.)

Failing this, anything else by Vera Lynn would do.

Has the world gone completely mad?

The very best of luck to you....


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 06:18 AM

The colourful comments about New Labour are interesting. Would musician have voted for them if it had been known they would hve so threatened our cultural rights and innocent interests? I wonder if any of the cannon fodder MPs realise what this bill will do to country pubs, to traditional music etc. If they did they might be concerned. Essential they all get to know!!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 07:43 AM

ET, I'd decided I didn't like New Labour before the last election. It came up at the time I was moving to North Norfolk from Wales. I voted Plaid Cymru. Round here, it is very Conservative and Lib Dem (currently in power) form the only serious opposition. I've got way off topic here... but I wish John Smith was still alive.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Oaklet
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 10:18 AM

Anyway, I have just spoken to Jill (landlady of the Sloop) who asked me to remind all those planning to attend the mass-action on Tuesday that they will have to backdate their membership by 48 hours to gain entry to the private room set aside for the "Mother of all Sessions" on Tuesday. If the Assistant Licensing Officer is there (Jill will know) then this will not be possible. Prepare for a bit of an administrative drag on Tuesday, but it could be a bit of a landmark evening. Jill is ringing the ALO tomorrow to discuss the acceptability of the frosted glass in the new door that has been added to the room. It is important that the public cannot see the musicians. Having seen Bloke-in-the Corner, I understand why.

To anyone who has encountered a licensee who doesn't give a flying f*uck about music sessions, I think that Jill should be praised for entering into the spirit if the thing. I was quite moved when she explained that she was angered to tears by last week's visit, and it must have been very tempting to say b*ollocks to it and expel the aerophonists, bangers, twangers, blowers, scrapers and dirge-traffickers in favour of a quiet life.

Anyone travelling from afar can stay at Bloke-in-the-Corner's house for as long as they want. Or Banjo-Flower's house come to that, as I have his keys.

9


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 10:32 AM

New Labour=New Load of Shit.john


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 04:26 PM

Hi Oakleaf & fellow Sloopers(?) I shall be with you in spirit on Tuesday but unfortunately I can't be there in person due to work commitments

Gerry

P.S Oakleaf can I have my keys back as I can't get in (but you can keep the fun fur jacket)


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,KJ
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 07:35 PM

If we post a list of those coming on Tuesday,then I can get 'em in the 'membership' book & print cards to be collected on arrival. Might cut down on some of the admin. After all we're there to attempt to play music.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 02:09 AM

You can put my name on the list.

Doug C


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 03:32 AM

Please add Nick & Christine Scaife to the membership list, all being well we will be through on Tuesday


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 05:11 AM

I was just an ordinary Englishman, until I got me uniform and hat...!

Karen, please add Peter Dean to the list. Thankyou. Looking forward to the event.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,ossonflags
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 10:41 AM

I have heard you sing that a time or twenty axeman!!!!!!!!

Karen,please add Mick and Mary McGarry to your membership list.

KEEP MUSIC LIVE.........!!!!!!

See you Tuesday (although not a lot of time to practise)


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 10:56 AM

Is there any spare seats left in the punchmobile Mick?
KJ-Please add me to your list as well, 9John Evans).


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 11:50 AM

Does anyone know Shuberts Impromptu in B flat. Playing that might satisfy the need for impromptu music.

Spoke to BBC Look North today. They are considering whether of not to attend. Thanks to Gregg for introduc


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Pied Piper
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:02 PM

I'm not shore I can make it but good luck.

"It's because o't Magna charter what were signed by't Barrons of old,
that we English can do what we want to; as long as we do what we're told"

PP


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:30 PM

You'll find me at the turnstile at the zoo,
Or outside the Roxy marshalling the queue.
If you turn up late, when I'm on the gate,
Don't expect me to let me through........


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Trevor Gilson
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 03:06 PM

Can we please get rid of this idea that Council Officers are 'only doing their duty' when these things happen. As 'Shambles' and Hamish have pointed out, the law is at best ambiguous and a considered legal opinion is that a 'proper' Court Case would very probably go against the Council, so long as the musicians were unpaid and also not specifically invited in by the licensee. Unfortunately a Magistrates Court would most likely uphold the Council rather than the Law, being lay people and frightened to express a legal opinion in the face of the contrary opinion expressed by a Council Solicitor. Only in a Higher Court or at Appeal is a valid outcome likely - note the recent case of R (Ashbrook) v East Sussex County Council which had to go to Appeal (I am sure you saw the pictures of Kate Ashbrook wielding the giant snips preparatory to opening up the footpath on which the Council had so long deferred action, in the face of criminal activity culminating in manslaughter).

Sadly, both Shambles and I believe we have been lied to when it suited a Council Officer's purposes to do so. We are not sure some of them understand what truth is.
Can we please get rid of this idea that Council Officers are 'only doing their duty' when these things happen. As 'Shambles' and Hamish have pointed out, the law is at best ambiguous and a considered legal opinion is that a 'proper' Court Case would very probably go against the Council, so long as the musicians were unpaid and also not specifically invited in by the licensee. Unfortunately a Magistrates Court would most likely uphold the Council rather than the Law, being lay people and frightened to express a legal opinion in the face of the contrary opinion expressed by a Council Solicitor. Only in a Higher Court or at Appeal is a valid outcome likely - note the recent case of R (Ashbrook) v East Sussex County Council which had to go to Appeal (I am sure you saw the pictures of Kate Ashbrook wielding the giant snips preparatory to opening up the footpath on which the Council had so long deferred action, in the face of criminal activity culminating in manslaughter).

Sadly, both Shambles and I believe we have been lied to when it suited a Council Officer's purposes to do so. We are not sure some of them understand what truth is.
trgilsonuk@yahoo.co.uk
web.onetel.net.uk/~trevorgilson


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 05:04 PM

Interesting and I agree, its not a question of jobsworth doing their duty. Usually they act on complaints, often from other Pubs that have spent money on PELs. The other problem is that councils don't go for musicians, they go for the Landlord. In this case an absent landlord so they would go for the licensee, who is an employee and not in a position to risk anything or spend money. And often in a prosecution in a magistrates court only the council has unlimited funds and a solicitor, not the licensee. And since the case can only be heard before Magistrates there is no precendent set for other courts. Appeals on a point of law are by way of case stated to the high court. It needs someone with both conviction and money to take this. This is why local authorities, who have no convictions, other than that of the licensee, but plenty of money, take nonesense like, 2 then 2 then 2 equals 6 in a bar.

The idea of tomorrow is to obtain some good publicity by being jammed in a small room as a club, playing to ourselves in a way that cannot be enjoyed by the rest of the pub, usually a bloke watching TV in a far room anyway. BBC considering whether to send a camera man but not rung back to say if they will or not. they would if they were certain PEL person was turning up!

The issue of entertaining others has already been raised with this lady. She says whatever others might say she was entertained. Not seductively it seems to go away and consider some more important issue.

I have written to my MP (not a labour man) saying that many many musicians are disillusioned with new labour over this issue. Hope everyone who signed the petition have also written to their MP? Think Fax your MP had concked out last night but try it.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,ossonflags
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 02:18 AM

John,there is room in the punchmobile.Report to the mcgarry residence before 7.15pm this evening.Any one else in 'ull wanting to come there is still some room.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Fossil
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 04:25 AM

Dear All involved in the Mother of All Sessions -

Unfortunately, my current parlous financial situation won't allow me to cross the Channel to add my twangs to the assorted Noises Off/Off Noises Against the Council, but I'll be with you in spirit. Please add my name, Tony Fuell, to the membership list and (if there is one) advise me on the subscription to pay. And don't forget that the assorted Mudcatters will be expecting a full report!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 05:02 AM

Will do Tony. I don't think there will be any membership subscriptions or lots of rules & regulations. The agenda is that we are there to play music & meet up with friends old & new. The only rule is that one must participate with some sort of musical instrument or voice. We've only set ourselves up as a 'club' because that is what we were advised to do by the first council official, as a way of getting round this stupid law & the silly,narrow-minded plonkers that have complained to the council. After all the landlord is not making zillions by having us there, we probably put more customers off than attract them in!! What we're protesting about is the fact that like other people we go to a pub to socialise but we don't play pool, darts or dominoes, we gather & attempt to produce something vaguely musical. I could understand it if we were loud enough to disturb the whole neighbourhood but we only disturb the regulars of the pub & they are used to it (probably all deaf!!) May be we all ought to complain to the council every time we walk into a plastic pub with a loud jukebox playing commercial shite.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 05:44 AM

The problem with the private members club route is that you will have to have memberships and exclude casual members of the public.

It is this way around the PEL requirement that causes the authorities the most concern and has been the subject of many undercover visits (or entrapments).

As the wish of the partipants and the licensees is not to exclude the public, perhaps a more constructive route can be taken? Perhaps an appeal from all parties to local councillors to allow the event to continue as it is, until a meeting can be arranged to find a solution?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 06:07 AM

Karen, that last post sums up my feelings on the subject completely. Wonderful. I shall try that the next time hear a jukebox!!!! See u tonight.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 06:26 AM

thanks mick, see you tonight.john


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 09:41 AM

Just been taking some solace in the sloop (day off!!)& Gill is all geared up for tonight. We have to fill out a membership form, so BRING A PEN as well as your good selves & various musical implements.Apparently if we are a club we are supposed to have an agenda, can I suggest solacing ourselves with our instruments in an entirely impromptu manner? We are also supposed to keep minutes...anyone got a mini-disc or tape recorder? Gill & I thought it may be a good idea to start other clubs for example 'The Sloop Wednesday Orgy Club'- rubber & manacles optional!!
PS Dean can I get a request in for Brave Wolfe?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 11:59 AM

Nah, think I'll give tonight a miss. Wednesday's sound more like my thing. Can I bring my special instrument case....?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 12:01 PM

I hate incorrect punctuation. Sorry Oakley, it wasn't deliberate. The grocer in me slipped out for a minute.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,The Bloke in the Corner
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 01:53 PM

LATEST BREAKING NEWS! PLENTY OF ROOM FOR ALL AT THE SLOOP TONIGHT! DON'T BE AFRAID TO COME, THE PUB IS ALL OURS!The madness goes on, but it might all be for the good. The licensing person said the frosted glass door was OK, BUT then the building department (wonder who told them??) came this afternoon and said the glass in the door had to be clear 'as otherwise the people inside would not be able to see a fire developing' (sic) Whoops, that's it then - but NO IT ISN'T! In a stroke of genius, courage and support for us folkies, Gill is CLOSING the pub to the public and for tonight making it a private folk club. Members may sign in guests, of course, so there is no problem with numbers as we have the whole pub to ourselves. Let's make sure that, whatever happens afterwards, we al show Gill and Tony how much we appreciate their support. P.S. There is a rumour of Look North being interested in coming.....bring an instrument and make thsi a night to remember.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 06:50 PM

heloo, i just get back from the sloop, it was really nice and a good sessuin , but tgis goverment is a big load of shit, they making si;lly roules about doors etc, why dont they piss off and misd there one bisinrss.this is my iopimion.john


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Oaklet
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 07:36 PM

Colin Thompson told them about the glass


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: smallpiper
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 08:04 PM

Oakley don't be silly it wasn't Colin Thompson we know that it was your nemisis Mr Winston Whats-his-face!

T'was a great session loads o support from catters and the BBC was thur filming an interviewing and we should be on Look North the morrow mornings night.

I'm sure a mnore ober person could be found to give a better report on the night.. I can only say I had a brilliant time!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 08:14 PM

9


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: smallpiper
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 08:28 PM

John I said a more sober person - you are ruled out by default cos I recon your as nuet as a pissed as I am! :-) hic


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 03:39 AM

Well what a good do, good to see so many committed people............. or is that people who should be committed .....................
I will not received the same version of Look North as you do so a report would be interesting, although Ossenflags may remember to tape it for me
We will try yet again to post some piccys on this thread but steam driven computer doesn't like them.
Finally,Deanmeister I would like definative chords to Jobsworth if you have them.
Ta Raggytash


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: bill\sables
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:06 AM

It was a bloddy good session last night.
It sort of looked like the days of prohibition in the USA. When we arrived there were musicians in various guises all carring instruments disguised in machene gun cases. The door was closed with a notice of a private party posted, but you could get in if you said to the doorman "John from Hull sent me"
The first half hour seemed to be dedicated to the "Athol Highlanders" which was played over and over again for the benifit of the BBC. It was good to see so many Mudcat members in one place.
Cheers Bill


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:11 AM

Ooooooooh my aching head,this solacing stuff is not so good the day after!! Still a mild hangover is a reasonable price to pay for the wonderful session last night. I must admit to feeling slightly queasy whenever I think about that reporter's tie, the stuff of nightmares!!
'twas really good, can we have some more protest sessions please


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:17 AM

Oooooooooh don't mention the A H, I haven't got that bloody tune out of my head all night.Still I must applaud the verve & vitality of the rendition, I thought skipjack's arms were going to fall off!!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:28 AM

You weren't drinking that orrible halcoholic stuff were you, KJ? Shame on you. What a wonderful night, wasn't it? I may have to venture across the water into deepest lincs more often, if only to hear you sing...x Did you get the lowdown on monday session in Newport?

Raggy, I'll pm the chords across when I wake up and remember what they are!

Cheers, Pete.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:45 AM

May I draw everybody's attention to the Session that Bill Sables has organised at the Crown and Anchor at Newport next Monday, 31st March, 8.30 pm. It has been organised with the intention of uniting the musicians from the Goole/Selby area with the Hull/Lincs people, and promises to be a wonderful night. If it's anything like the fantastic evening at the Sloop last night, it'll be ace. Hope to see you all there!

Keep Music Live.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 05:14 AM

Ooooooh my aching head, I'm only looking for sympathy - yes I know it's in the dictionary between shit & syphilis!! However I think I will have recovered enough to drag my long-suffering husband to the Newport session.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 06:19 AM

Where's Newport?

Gerry


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,The Bloke in the Corner
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 06:26 AM

Yes, yes, to all the above. We really must find something else to protest about really soon!
Gill the landlady deserved - and got - our thanks last night, all those who came are SOOOO welcome every Tuesday night, not all sessions are as full at that one, but we have some real good ones, if a little smaller.
Newport looks good, I'll be able to take three people from the Barton area. Let's do it ALL AGAIN!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: ET
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 01:06 PM

Is this Newport Near Howden off the M62. Or Monmouth?

It was a bloody good session last night but I hoped that if it had been a club I could raise a point of order and limit music to 120 bpm or fine anyone for exceeding this since I can't keep up.

Just a reminder that Gill promises this every Tuesday, close down to public and members only.

Cheers

Eric

PS have a hard copy (200 pages of Hansard report on the debate in Parliament on this bill. more interesting than it sounds, except Howells bit which was miserable and made no reference to all the protests about acoustic music. Anyone wanting a copy, free, send me a message and a snail mail address - too big to e-mail and would bust your printer printing it.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 02:10 PM

Maybe we could have a protest session about the axing of Henry Ayrton's show. Laurie, if you don't get any more exciting offers we wouldn't mind a ride to Newport, share the bridge fees.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 03:40 AM

Well, did BBC Humberside give any coveage to the debacle over live music at the Sloop last night?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,KJ
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 03:47 AM

Yes


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: smallpiper
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 04:27 AM

Yes and you were on it Raggytash. with Sound bites from Karen, ET and chap from Manchester, plus all of us playing, it was quite good really apart from the tit of a presenter (not the bloke who came to the session) making some comment about saying nothing about folk music or he'll be in trouble.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 04:57 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/england/looknorthhull/ Click on 1830 North East edition to view last night's programme. Not a bad article I thought.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 05:17 AM

U have to look before the next show apparently, as that will automatically erase the last one.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 05:32 AM

Can some kind soul make and post a transcription here before it gets replaced?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Noreen
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 01:29 PM

Just watched it- pretty good! Nice to see familiar faces on TV, and well-expressed opinions, even if it wasn't very seriously dealt with.

If anyone else gets the chance to see it before it gets taken off, the relevant piece is about 2/3 way through the prog- save you wading through the rest of the local news.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Oaklet
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 02:46 PM

The article about the traffic in Hull was very enlightening though, Sireen. And beautfully lit.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 06:27 PM

I thought my left foot was syncopating wonderfully, plus the sexy button work at the start of the piece. Toe curling, from a personal viewpoint, we looked like the Wurzels.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 08:02 AM

Just spoken to Gill of 'The Sloop' who thought the LookNorth bit was ace. There should be a piece in the Scunthorpe Telegraph tomorrow night. She's heard absolutely nothing from the council/fire brigade/health-safety inspectors/communicable diseases control centre,so as far as she's concerned it's still every Tuesday night. It'll run in the same format, pub closed to anyone who isn't a member but as we can all sign in two guests for the evening all folkies will be most welcome.
I shan't be there next week as on dreaded nights in the lovely HRI but I hope it will be as good as this weeks.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 01:32 PM

I sent Jeremy Taylor an email asking if I could have his chords for Jobsworth as I intended to regale our friend from the council with it.
He kindly relpied and gave us the message of Good Luck Give 'em hell!!
What a good chap eh?
Chords for those who want to know I've posted on the Jobsworth thread, like Harvey Andrews said on one thread, a song not sung is a dead song and this one is a cracker


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: smallpiper
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:56 AM

Judging by past form there could well be a raid tonight - won't they be supprised to find the doors closed against them. Remember to come along members and guests!


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: KJ
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:29 AM

Don't forget you membership cards!!! Sorry I won't be there as at the workhouse. Have a good time everyone.


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: daithi
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 04:41 AM

Apologies from me too - can't make tonight (still recovering from last week's TV appearance)but will be along next week I hope. (Got my fix this week though at the Newport session)best wishes - Dáithí


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 04:50 AM

The wombat will be incapcitated due to tooth extraction this afternoon and I'm still in dock with bad back. My apologies to all.
In addition it is quite a way from Huddersfield for a session!!
Good Luck tonight if you have a visitation


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 07:51 AM

Did we meet last night, Daithi?


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: daithi
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 09:11 AM

Yes Deanmeister - It was I playing a bit of whistle at the Crown & Anchor.And you were in fine voice yourself, if I may venture my opinion... Dáithí


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Subject: RE: Music Police raid Sloop, Barton Lincs
From: GUEST,Bloke in the Corner
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 01:08 PM

Bloke will certainly be there, in the corner probably. God, how predictable he is becoming.
Apart from that, the Crown & Anchor was a very good session last night, lovely singing and music, I'll be happy to put it on my monthly schedule.
Hope to see plenty of you all tonight


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