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BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?

Thomas the Rhymer 09 Mar 03 - 03:05 AM
BlueJay 09 Mar 03 - 05:05 AM
InOBU 09 Mar 03 - 06:27 AM
Bobert 09 Mar 03 - 10:05 AM
*daylia* 09 Mar 03 - 10:40 AM
kendall 09 Mar 03 - 12:38 PM
Ebbie 09 Mar 03 - 01:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Mar 03 - 03:42 PM
Ebbie 09 Mar 03 - 03:53 PM
Alice 09 Mar 03 - 05:08 PM
Bobert 09 Mar 03 - 05:57 PM
CarolC 09 Mar 03 - 06:37 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 09 Mar 03 - 07:49 PM
CarolC 09 Mar 03 - 08:37 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 09 Mar 03 - 08:41 PM
Troll 09 Mar 03 - 09:30 PM
Bobert 09 Mar 03 - 10:00 PM
Rustic Rebel 09 Mar 03 - 11:17 PM
Amos 09 Mar 03 - 11:47 PM
Rustic Rebel 10 Mar 03 - 12:59 AM
Peg 10 Mar 03 - 01:38 AM
Amos 10 Mar 03 - 12:47 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 10 Mar 03 - 03:40 PM
GUEST,Dreaded Guest 10 Mar 03 - 05:32 PM
Bobert 10 Mar 03 - 06:52 PM
GUEST,Dreaded Guest 10 Mar 03 - 07:08 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 10 Mar 03 - 07:20 PM
Ebbie 10 Mar 03 - 08:43 PM
GUEST,Dreaded Guest 10 Mar 03 - 08:46 PM
GUEST,Dreaded Guest 10 Mar 03 - 08:50 PM
Bobert 10 Mar 03 - 09:18 PM
CarolC 10 Mar 03 - 09:32 PM
*daylia* 10 Mar 03 - 09:54 PM
Troll 10 Mar 03 - 10:24 PM
Troll 10 Mar 03 - 10:30 PM
CarolC 10 Mar 03 - 10:56 PM
Troll 10 Mar 03 - 11:43 PM
GUEST,Dreaded Guest 11 Mar 03 - 12:22 AM
DougR 11 Mar 03 - 12:32 AM
CarolC 11 Mar 03 - 01:21 AM
Troll 11 Mar 03 - 02:00 AM
Peg 11 Mar 03 - 02:31 AM
Forum Lurker 11 Mar 03 - 11:03 AM
CarolC 11 Mar 03 - 11:17 AM
GUEST,Dreaded Guest 11 Mar 03 - 12:16 PM
Troll 11 Mar 03 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,Dreaded Guest 11 Mar 03 - 01:02 PM
Peg 11 Mar 03 - 01:03 PM
Ebbie 11 Mar 03 - 01:48 PM
GUEST,Forum Lurker 11 Mar 03 - 01:51 PM
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Subject: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 03:05 AM

Well? Are we going to entertain this notion? Surely *someone* can snap their fingers and break the spell of agression this country is under! Anyone got wind of new hopefuls? ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: BlueJay
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 05:05 AM

Thomas- Nope, not as I see it from this side of the pond. The Democratic candidates are mostly mediocre and inneffective so far. The Senate, which is closely divided, is very dissapointing to me. They are all afraid they'll be labelled "traitor" and lose their next election.

The economy will be Bush's eventual undoing, of course much too late to prevent his war on Iraq. But when enough people lose their jobs and houses, maybe they will stop voting these Robber Barons into office.

Here in Colorado, the economy is forcing cuts in many useful services. So what does our State Legislature propose? The mandated posting of "In God We Trust" ina all public buildings and CLASSROOMS!

Unemployment is high, my lawn is dead because of the drought, and they're asking us to please flush less, except for Denver where the golf courses must be kept green.

Eventually, the majority of the American people will realize that they will never be rich, or even affluent, so voting for Bush and his handlers is of no direct benefit, unless you want the 10 Commandments posted everywhere.

My main hope is the slowly awakening American people. Too late to stop the Iraq war. It's already started. But my hope is that the American people will soon realize that they probably will never be rich, the pendulum has swung too far to the right, and it's time for a correction.

Thanks, BlueJay


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: InOBU
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 06:27 AM

Hi Folkies...
I am putting together a one man show, a look at American freedoms and their loss through my historical ballads, from The Times That Try Our Souls, to Walking with King... so check out the thread, Love Song For America, up in the music threads, it is one thing we could do, as Arthur Kinoy, the last living lawyer for the Rosenbergs said to me, the civil rights movement died the day we stopped singing,
singing truth to power
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 10:05 AM

Well, ttr, you have posed an interesting question. Seems that every time someone steps up and becomes a voice for change and peace, someone kills 'em. Yeah, the word would definately be a better and safer place now if we still had Bobby Kennedy and Dr. King.

Under this oppressive media envornment, I don't think that anyone can capture the imaginations of so many folks like they were able to do. And there is so much that goes ijnto marketing and PR that the system has evolved to trivialize and minimalize potential leaders of change.

But, that said, though I'm still a Greenie, Howard Dean seems to have the positions on the issues, from war to the economy, to a woman's right to choose. He doesn't have the pizazz but maybe that just because he hasn't been marketed correctly. Al Sharpton, though terribly trivialized, is one heck of a spokesman for peace and justice and I would just hope that he gets more air time than he has gotten.

Those are my early thoughts on the subject. Maybe someone else come to mind later and if so, I'll be back.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 10:40 AM

Inspired by a recent thread, in response to ttr's query and with profound apologies to Dr. Seuss, here's

GIs on Scams

I do not like GIs on scams.
I do not like them, Uncle Sam!

I do not like them bombing babes,
I do not like them filling graves.
I do not like them trained with lies,
I do not like them vaporized


I do not like them used for oil,
I do not like their bloody spoils
I do not like their victim's screams,
I do not like your greed machine.

I do not like their brainwashed babble,
I do not like their lawless battle.
I did not like it yesterday
I like it even less today.

I do not like GIs on scams.
And we WILL beat you, Sam "I AM"!


When enough of the American people realize just how dangerously they are being duped, Bush and his cronies better head for the hills.

daylia


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 12:38 PM

I'm with Robert. Howard Dean is my man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 01:51 PM

In today's New York Times, Jimmy Carter examines whether this is a 'Just war' or 'just a war'. He concludes, point by point, that it is NOT just, ending with:

"American stature will surely decline further if we launch a war in clear defiance of the United Nations. But to use the presence and threat of our military power to force Iraq's compliance with all United Nations resolutions — with war as a final option — will enhance our status as a champion of peace and justice."


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 03:42 PM

Why not a second term for Jimmy Carter? As I've pointed out, he'd be younger than Gladstone was. Or Konrad Adenauer for that matter. Probably a good few other elderly statesmen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 03:53 PM

One problem is that Carter is so good right where he is. If he should leave that mission, who would fill that post? When one starts totting up what the Carter Center has accomplished with Jimmy Carter at the helm, it's pretty impressive.

Reminds me of one year when the membership of the Alaska Folk Festival was (were?) voting on new officers of the board. One applicant asked for our vote then ended with 'If I don't get on the board, I'll continue working on the side for them'. Almost needless to say, she didn't get on the board. And sure enough, she continues to be an invaluable member of the folk festival.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 05:08 PM

Howard Dean was on C-Span today. Not bad. Time will tell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 05:57 PM

Yeah, Mcgrath, I'd vote fir Jimmy Carter. Might of fact, if my memory serves me correctly, he's the only guy that I ever voted for the actually won. Hmmmmm? Maybe I'll vote fir Bush next time...

Not!

Sorry to have missed Howard Dean, Alice. Guess I haven't been checkin' in on his website often enough.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 06:37 PM

I have a gut feeling that the Democratic party machine is going to back Joe Leiberman with Hillary Clinton as his running mate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 07:49 PM

OK... But Joe is a hawk. That bugs me... Actually though, other than that, I'd go for the team if they prove to be significant and consequential... ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:37 PM

I didn't say I would vote for them. I just think that's who the Democratic party is going to back.

I might just have to vote Green or Independent or something this time. I don't like Lieberman's stance on war in Iraq or on the role of the US in Israel/Palestine, and I don't like Hilary's stance on the role of the US in Israel/Palestine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:41 PM

It'll all depend on the repercussions or lack thereof of Mr. Bush's War.

If the war goes smoothly with minimal casualties, minimal alienation of foreign governments, no major terrorist reprisals and if Dubya is able to keep the flag-waving at a fevered pitch.... The Democrats could nominate Jesus Christ himself and not stand a chance.

If the war goes smoothly and Dubya is not able to orchestrate a new binge of patriotism (remember that George I won the war but lost the election).... The Democrats stand a chance and I'll be a sentimental Floridian and toss Bob Graham's name into the hat.

If the war goes badly with lots of kids flying home in body bags, revenge terrorist attacks and a lot of people saying "We told you so!".... The Democrats could nominate my pet pig "Slim" and win.

Of course, there is the slimmest possibility that Dubya may listen to the voice of world opinion and back down from his war plans.... If he does, I may vote for the fucker myself.

But there is also the possibility that Dubya may invoke marshal law, suspend the Constitution and proclaim himself King.... In that case there won't be an election, will there?

Bruce


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Troll
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 09:30 PM

Jimmy Carter. Oh yeah. He's the guy who brokered that deal with North Korea isn't he.
The one who didn't have the strength of cahracter to turn down the Nobel Peace Prize when the Commitee chairman announced that it had been awarded to him, not for his work, but as a slap to President Bush.
The one who...Yeah, Jimmy Carter is who this country needs.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 10:00 PM

Troll:

There you go again. Bad mouthing Jimmy Carter? I just don't get it? Here's a guy who you probably don't know very much about that you are ready and willing to sit in judgement. For a lot of people Jimmy Carter represents what Christains are really about: loving their neighbors, believing in the sanctity of life, and public service.

You may see talking with your adversaries, as Jimmy Carter has, as a weekness. Lots of folks don't see it that way. Lots of folks would rather have Jimmy Carter in the White House than your guy whose foriegn policy is based around either killing ot threatening to kill people.

This thread is about "Who's onna beat Bush... and make peace". Your guy ain't gonna make any peace. He has shown his absolute thirst for getting back at the bully who embarassed him in the 5th grade. His entire forieng policy to date is cenetered around violence.

And so now Jimmy Carter is the bad guy?

Beam me up!

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 11:17 PM

This man sounds like an interesting candidate. If he is a trustworthy person, he sounds like one that could take us to peace. Kucinich
Peace. Rustic


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 11:47 PM

An interesting backlash from a Democrat and Nobel Prize winner can be found in this article in the International Herald Tribune. Worth reading, it analyzes the criteria for a just war and examines the merit of the American position relative to those criteria.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:59 AM

Can't get through on your link Amos.
Anyone read up on Kucinich yet? Like I said he sounds interesting. He is against the war, for cleaning up the environment, as a matter of fact he with Jerry Brown are proposing a $50 billion solar initiative in cooperation with Gorbachev's 'Global Green'.
He is pro choice, against the way the patriot act is taking away rights and much more. Read about him!
Spaw if you read this, maybe you know about him. He is a US Rep. from Ohio.
Peace. Rustic


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Peg
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:38 AM

I like Kucinich except for the fact that his pro-choice attitude seems to be a relatively recent switch from his earlier actions...from what I have read, anyway. So that concerns me. But I like where he stands on a lot of issues.

I like Howard Dean based on what I know so far which isn't too much. Vermonters can usually be trusted to be reasonable, as long as they aren't TOO Vermont in their ways (i.e. racist, homophobic, xenophobic, isolationist and interested in eugenics).

I am very much against Lieberman and always have been.

I wouldn't say no to Hillary and think she might have a good chance getting picked as a running mate...

I think John Kerry has his eye on the race, too. He's a bit too much business as usual. I think after this four year regime is finished a lot of people will want something different. But no candidate in their right mind is going to be going into this not understanding there will be one hell of a mess to clean up, financially and politically. Our country's morale and credibility will end up at an all-time low, if things keep on as they are going. Our domestic problems will be second, however, to the massive foreign relations derailments that will have to be righted again...


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:47 PM

Link worked for me just now. It is:

http://www.iht.com/articles/89151.html

Try cut 'n' paste.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 03:40 PM

Yes, Peg, and the 'candidate in question' is going to be visciously attacked, uncerimoniously slandered, microscopicly mistreated, and otherwise subjected to 'dirty tricks' and media madness... before it's all over... No Bush anymore, in Two Thousand and Four!

ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:32 PM

Since the CIA's assassination of JFK, an incremental move toward military dictatorship has taken place. It has been so successful that you folks can now accept 4 jetliners being hijacked and flying around for 75 minutes over the most crowded area of the US without being intercepted by NORAD's automatic-response system. Things are so bad that the military coup can now murder live on TV and then get you to sit still while they draw up legislation to steal your kids from you.

It does not MATTER who you vote for in the Presidential Election. Both the Bushes and Bill Clinton orchestrated Sept 11. It is a 100% certainty the two major-party candidates will be employees of the organized criminals running the CIA. If they're not, they'll have their heads blown off.

Insist on an open investigation of Sept 11. Put the effort of thought and writing you would devote to the phony election into spreading word about Sept 11. You KNOW that's the right thing to do. If you do not expose the criminals of Sept 11, you and your descendants will live shortened lives as the ditch-diggers, whores and organ donors of the coming tyrannical world govt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:52 PM

Yeah, DD, does make you wonder why when the space shuttle, Columbia, crashes that there is an investigation started within 24 hours. Now rewind to 9-11 and we're still awaiting an investigation. Hmmmmm, Part 764873?

And how about the investigation of Dick Cheneys meetings in developing an energy policy. Or how about one that links the current adminsitration to badly doctored documents to use as evidence that Iraq was trying to purchase nuclear material? (I maigh add that if true, this is an impeachable offense.) Yeah, Bush is getting real sloppy here.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 07:08 PM

All his crimes are sloppy. Just like Clinton's were. Clinton was openly selling nuclear secrets to the ChiComs, but then the country was diverted by an affair with an intern. The REAL intent behind that affair was to dissolve the office of the Independent Prosecutor, by the way. There's no way Bush could have pulled off the BIG crime of Sept 11 if Clinton and Ken Starr hadn't first made sure no one could ask independent questions, so they made Americans want to get rid of the office. It's all interlocked. Dole, Clinton, Gore, Bush, Liebermann...they're all the same. Some get more done than others when it comes to destroying the US and enhancing the UN, but they're all the same.

Sept 11 was too big a step, though. It needs to be focused on. Too many witnesses still alive, too recent, too much forensic evidence. They can't get away with it, if people will just focus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 07:20 PM

Gosh DD... I'll be content with voting Bush out of office... I'm not ready to Hail the mighty conspiracy theory, 'cause it's just too much for my little mind to grasp right now. Would you mind not posting your well oiled schpeal in this thread? You've already voiced these 'concerns' of yours, and we're well aware of your point of view. Same old same old. Thanks... ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 08:43 PM

"The REAL intent behind that affair was to dissolve the office of the Independent Prosecutor, by the way." hhhahahah DD, you are too, too funny. Yes, I can just believe that President Clinton was telling himself in those heated moments that 'Here's one to dissolve the office of the Independent Prosecutor'. (By the way, was Monica in on the conspiracy?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 08:46 PM

Thank you for your encouragement, Thomas.

Let's see...no one is going to make peace because that is not on the agenda. And there IS no Democratic candidate...never will be. Just a continuation of the 'Homeland Security' dictatorship. You DO have a dictatorship on your hands, you know And a choice of dictators is no choice.

What is wrong with you? This isn't a conspiracy. No proof was ever offered that the Taliban, Afghanistan or al Qeada bombed the WTC, but THOUSANDS of pieces of evidence prove conclusively the US govt did. The US govt is no longer deserving of your support through participation in non-elections. GWBush murdered thousands on Sept 11, and Clinton murdered dozens at Oklahoma City and armed North Korea. The only choice is to expose our illegitimate CIA govt. Until that is done, no election will make any difference. No candidate will cure the disease.

Do not put any effort into the upcoming 'election' unless you are doing what I am doing at this very moment...demanding an accounting as to why we have no Sept 11 investigation. Millions are about to be slaughtered because you'd rather talk about a personality contest than a mass-murder by our govt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 08:50 PM

Ebbie...the people involved in the destruction of America think generationally. One Bush started a war 12 years ago and now another one is going to milk it some more. The office of the Independent Prosecutor HAD to be dissolved because it was an impediment to dictatorship, so it was reduced to soap opera. Clinton is going to be Sec General of the U.N. (King of the World) and couldn't care less that he had to look stupid for a couple years in order to get the office.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:18 PM

Well, DD, I will be first to admit that Oklahoma City left that fishy smell. Like someone not telling all. I mean, lets think about it here fir a minute. You park a Ryder truck filled with manure and kerosene some 60 feet from the front of the Federal Building and let her rip! Right?

Well, if anyone knows anyone who is into demolitions that use explosive charges in bringing down structure, ask 'em about how a truck filled with poop and kerosene could take out a concrete building some 50 feet into it's interior! Does make ya' think!

Then how about all those folks who, at the time, instinctly remembering the sound of two explosions? Not one, that a truck bomb would make. Hmmmmm!

Now I will be the first to say that Dreaded Guest is a nut but you know what? Some of this stuff is starting to make more and more sense.

Consider this. Bill Clinton gets impeached fir oral sex and now the American people have lost their taste for "impeachment" at a time when a madamn is at the controls and is using "cooked" documments as evidence on wht we have to attack Iraq!?!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!.....

Hmmmmmmm, Part 0989859307497408?

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:32 PM

I, for one, would love to see extensive investigations into the 9/11 events as well as the anthrax letters. And I would love to see a legitimate and agenda-free explanation of why we haven't seen these things investigated extensively already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: *daylia*
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:54 PM

Carol, I'm going to give you a very small, probably totally inconsequential and therefore ultra Canadian "Hear Hear!"

"Hear Hear!"

daylia


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Troll
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 10:24 PM

So Bobert. The report that Hans Blix turned in to the UN wherein is described a drone airplane with a 25 foot wingspan and apparently quite a long range is a "cooked" document,eh? The plane was developed under an undisclosed program and, because of its size alone is a clear material breech. Blix didn't mention it in has speech, however. It was buried in the report which ran, I believe, several hundred pages.
I guess he thought maybe no one would read it.
As far as Jimmy Carter is concerned, if you consider him a great, or even good president, you and I have absolutely no common ground on which to discuss politics.
I will leave you with the following story. Perhaps you can explain to me how in the name of the laws of G-d OR man you can justify the existance on earth for one more day, of anyone who would allow or condone such an action.
And just in case you can't figure out WHO i'm talking about, I mean Saddam Hussein, also known as the Butcher of Bagdad, the man who has murdered hundreds of thousands of his own countrymen and stolem the food from the mouths of millions more.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Troll
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 10:30 PM

Apparently the copy didn't thke or something. Anyhoo, here's the story,
Thirty-seven-year-old Nazif Mamik Tofik, an Iraqi Kurdish woman, approached a border
                      crossing between semiautonomous northern Iraq and Iraq proper, the Daily Telegraph
                      reports. She was carrying two five-gallon canisters of fuel, which she hoped to sell on
                      the Iraqi side to get some money to feed her children. Here's what happened next:

                           As she stepped up to the Iraqi checkpoint, a military policeman suddenly
                           pulled a knife, slashed open the flimsy plastic containers and splashed petrol
                           all over her.

                           Then the head of the Iraqi border guard casually walked up to her, pulled a
                           lighter from his pocket and set her ablaze. Soaked in fuel, she began to burn
                           like a torch. That was on Monday afternoon. Yesterday Nazif lay in Sulaimania
                           emergency hospital, on the Iraqi side, whimpering with pain. She had third
                           degree burns and doctors said she was lucky to be alive. . . .

                           In a faltering voice, she said: "They said absolutely nothing, just looked at me
                           with hatred. Then they set me alight. My whole body was in flames. I can't
                           describe the pain. . . ."

Nuff Sed.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 10:56 PM

If we're going have to go after Saddam Hussien for reasons like that one, troll I guess we're going to have to go after Ariel Sharon for the same kinds of reasons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Troll
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 11:43 PM

Fine by me. We can get Arafat while we are at it. And Mugabe.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:22 AM

I know, Bobert. The film is pretty conclusive on the OKC thing. And then there are the MOUNTAINS of evidence about the WTC.

Just the firefighting evidence...second tower struck, fire fighters reached the site and reported small fires rapidly going out. Most of the fuel had been splashed out the side. Then there are explosions underground (reported by firefighters), and the buildings come down. And all firefighters are put under a gag order for 'national security'.

If 9-11 is not ripped open right now, folks, you will go to concentration camps. Guranteed. Television is now saying people who criticize the govt should be locked up, and television is where 90% of people get their news. Talk show hosts and Pat Buchanan to Alan Derschowitz are discussing torture like it's a given.

Elections...2000, Florida, Gore on top, VNS system goes down, comes back up and Bush is ahead. 2002, VNS goes down nationwide and when it comes back up the Republicans have made 'unexpected' gains. Now VNS has been disbanded because it's no longer needed. Electronic voting is installed in enough areas where national election outcomes can now be pre-programmed. Votes won't even be counted. Just electrons no one can track. It's over. Elections at the national level now have no meaning. Your Pres and VP will be appointed from here on out. UNLESS the Sept 11 attacks are shown for what they were.

An unelected CIA son has brought the world to the brink of WW3 and the institution of tyrannical world govt. Only you can change that. Bring down the CIA (and all the killers and assassins they've inflicted on the world the past 55 years), and the concentration camps can be avoided.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: DougR
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:32 AM

Troll: why do you expect to see compassion from most of these folks for the Iraqi people? Whassamatta you crazy? They feel, obivously, that the Iraqi people DESERVE Saddam!

Jimmy Carter: one of the worst presidents in U. S. history, who has nothing of note to point to as an accomplishment as a president. Now he has survived his one term and the only good thing I can think of that he has done has been as a carpenter with Habitat for Humanity. As a ex-president he should keep his opinions to himself and his mouth shut as every other president other than Bill Clinton has done after leaving office. Just my opinion of course.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:21 AM

Ok, troll. If Sharon doesn't comply, shall we go ahead and bomb Israel?


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Troll
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 02:00 AM

And Gaza. And the West Bank. And on to Zimbabwe.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Peg
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 02:31 AM

Carter was one of the most intelligent, compassionate and visionary leaders ever to serve as President. Because of an uncooperative cabinet and the unfortunate Iranian hostage situation (which he wisely did not budge on, yet many criticized him for), he was not able to manifest all the plans he had in place. But Reagan's economic boom (which he then pissed away by racking up trillions in national debt, more during his administration than all other presidents combined before him) was solely due to cost-saving measures and regulations implemented by Carter (many of them having to do with energy-saving practices he wrote into law). Read any textbook which outlines the Carter presidency; most people have no idea what a great legacy this man left behind. And what about his post-White House years? You don't earn the Nobel Peace Prize for playing golf or fly-fishing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:03 AM

Bobert-Poop and kerosene can inflict an amazing amount of damage. Remember that this truck could probably carry at least half a ton, if not a ton, of explosive. Think about the damage that a 1000 lb. military bomb inflicts. While ammonium nitrate is not quite as powerful as TNT, positioning the explosive in the basement makes up for that. For two explosions, think about echos. In an urban center, surrounded by tall buildings, any loud, sharp noise is echoed.

Troll-Not that I'm claiming that Saddam isn't a vile person, but simply because some of his policemen do bad things doesn't actually prove any connection. American policemen have beaten, raped, and murdered suspects in isolated incidents. You can't convict Saddam on this alone. I don't disagree with your conclusion, just that this evidence warrants it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:17 AM

Forum Lurker, you mention positioning the truck in the basement. Are you referring to the Oklahoma City bombing? My understanding is that the truck was parked in the street in front of the building.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:16 PM

OK City....

Ten foot crater left by the truck....couldn't have done the damage to the building. Seismagraphic records show more than one explosion. TOW missile removed from the FBI office above the daycare center (pointed downwards but failed to go off). Govt agents were seen by an employee in the building putting 'grey sticks of margarine' around support columns in the basement beneath the building (C4 shape charges). etc, etc, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Troll
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:32 PM

Lurker, the example I gave is simply a report of the latest atrocity perpetrated by Saddams goons. Remember, he used poison gas on the Kurds. That was the act of a government, not just a few rogue cops.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:02 PM

Saddam was sold poison gas by the Bushes and James Baker, then the CIA showed him how to spray it. The film we've seen of the dead Kurds was taken by the CIA...for future use when Saddam had to be demonized. Our CIA, in point of fact, carried out the gas attacks against the Kurds.

And Bush # 1 told Saddam he could invade Kuwait. He said it would be considered 'a regional affair'. And since Bush and Saddam had done business together all through the CIA-funded Iran/Iraq war, Saddam interpretted Bush's Kuwaiti statement as an order. He was ORDERED by Bush to invade Kuwait.

How come you folks don't know this stuff?


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Peg
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:03 PM

Troll. Lurker's point is still well taken. American law enforcement officers have also perpetrated some brutal and heinous crimes again civilians, rape and murder among them. By your reasoning, the rest of the world should be declaring war on US, if the isolated actions of our police (who are employed by municipal, state and federal mandate) are worthy of the same scrutiny you assign to Saddam's goon squad.

Come to think of it, why do WE get to tell other countries to disarm when WE have the biggest arsenal of nuclear and biological weapons and military firepower in the world?

Some things just don't make sense. I start the day with a smile and a simple breakfast of cereal with sliced bananas...and then it's all downhill from there. When will anyone actually learn anything?


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:48 PM

DougR, you say: "Now he has survived his one term and the only good thing I can think of that he has done has been as a carpenter with Habitat for Humanity."

What a snide crock. You, sir, are ill informed and closed minded; I doubt you have allowed yourself to take in any new information in 30 years.

For starters, there is the Carter Center. I read somewhere that in some regions, the incidence of worm disease through the work of the Carter Center has been lowered by 90%.

""One of Atlanta's premier international institutions, the Center is a nongovernmental, nonprofit organization founded in 1982 by former US President Jimmy Carter and his wife, Rosalynn. A part of Emory
University, the Center's activities are led by resident experts and fellows and implemented in cooperation with world leaders, other
nongovernmental organizations, international agencies and other
partners.

To date, the Center has helped improve the lives of people in more
than 65 countries. In addition to high-profile conflict mediations in
Bosnia, Haiti and North Korea, the Center has monitored some 20
elections in countries making transition to democracy, helped to
dramatically increase grain production in more than a dozen African
countries, provided leadership for an international coalition trying to eradicate Guinea worm disease in Africa, worked with countries to
protect and promote human rights, and marshaled Atlanta neighborhoods
and corporations to address the social issues associated with poverty."

I have little doubt, DougR, that you prefer our ex presidents to put themselves out to pasture, and in recent years most of them have certainly met your desires. Most of our expresidents have let themselves become silly, sports-besotted men.

Rant off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Who's gonna beat Bush... and make peace?
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:51 PM

Troll-Like I said, I didn't disagree with your conclusion, I simply don't think it was warranted by that particular incident, or even a number of such incidents. Using chemical weapons on civilians IS enough, but the U.S. does not have a significant moral high ground when it comes to WMDs.


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