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Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?

Related threads:
Anti-war songs from WWI (58)
Anti-war songs to fit the occasion (57)
Have anti-war songs changed anything? (108)
Lyr Add: The Price of Oil (Billy Bragg) (8)
Lyr Add: Stop the war songs (4)
Links to Anti-War Songs sites (5)


rich-joy 15 Jan 19 - 06:42 PM
peteaberdeen 15 Jan 19 - 01:41 PM
GUEST,Gerry 13 Jan 19 - 05:38 PM
GUEST,Gerry 13 Jan 19 - 05:30 PM
GUEST,Gerry 13 Jan 19 - 05:23 PM
Lighter 13 Jan 19 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,John Orford 13 Jan 19 - 12:18 AM
GUEST,Kmccjoe1 12 Jan 19 - 11:09 PM
GUEST,henryp 23 Feb 15 - 06:25 PM
Lighter 23 Feb 15 - 08:03 AM
GUEST,henryp 23 Feb 15 - 07:32 AM
GUEST,henryp 21 Feb 15 - 07:38 PM
GUEST,Lighter (19 Feb 2015) 21 Feb 15 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,MartinRyan (19Feb15) 21 Feb 15 - 03:53 PM
GUEST,Dave Hanson (19 Feb 2015) 21 Feb 15 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,henryp (19 Feb 2015) 21 Feb 15 - 03:50 PM
GUEST,henryp (19 Feb 2015) 21 Feb 15 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,Dave (18 Feb 2015) 21 Feb 15 - 03:47 PM
GUEST,Bert (17 Feb 2015) 21 Feb 15 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,Jim Dixon 17 Feb 2015 21 Feb 15 - 03:45 PM
GUEST,Desi C 04 Nov 14 - 01:33 PM
topical tom 03 Nov 14 - 01:57 PM
topical tom 03 Nov 14 - 01:50 PM
Jason Xion Wang 03 Nov 14 - 08:19 AM
Jason Xion Wang 02 Nov 14 - 09:36 PM
GUEST,Jordana 24 Jul 14 - 02:48 PM
Mehitabel 26 Jun 14 - 11:06 PM
JedMarum 26 Jun 14 - 01:07 PM
JedMarum 26 Jun 14 - 01:04 PM
Larry The Radio Guy 26 Jun 14 - 12:13 PM
PHJim 26 Jun 14 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,AlbertsLion 26 Jun 14 - 06:39 AM
ollaimh 14 Oct 13 - 12:40 PM
Bearheart 14 Oct 13 - 12:20 PM
cetmst 13 Oct 13 - 05:47 PM
Mr Happy 13 Oct 13 - 11:35 AM
GUEST,Eddie1 13 Oct 13 - 06:56 AM
Lighter 12 Oct 13 - 08:41 PM
dick greenhaus 12 Oct 13 - 07:52 PM
Bearheart 12 Oct 13 - 03:55 PM
Gulliver 30 Sep 09 - 02:28 PM
GUEST,Teribus 30 Sep 09 - 12:51 PM
Gulliver 29 Sep 09 - 09:49 PM
LostHills 29 Sep 09 - 02:48 AM
GUEST 29 Sep 09 - 02:46 AM
GUEST,Teribus 29 Sep 09 - 02:40 AM
GUEST,Jim P 29 Sep 09 - 01:57 AM
Gulliver 28 Sep 09 - 02:51 PM
GUEST 28 Sep 09 - 01:30 PM
GUEST,Bardan 28 Sep 09 - 01:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Jan 19 - 06:42 PM

This one moves me greatly and was a huge favourite of my late Partner, Paul Lawler, who sang it powerfully. Thanks to Stewie, we learnt it from a great Tom Reid recording. Lyrics are elsewhere on a Mudcat thread.

"When Princes Meet" - Tom Paxton (c.1973)

R-J (Down Under)


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 15 Jan 19 - 01:41 PM

in 1761 there was a riot in Hexham following attempts (by ballot) of enforced conscription. about 50 people were killed by the military with at least 300 injured. i had heard nothing about this til i saw a plaque in the town square last year. are there songs about it - you would think so given the traditions of the area. or maybe there are no songs - which is why it is not known about so much


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 13 Jan 19 - 05:38 PM

Here's an Israeli song, The Last War lyrics in Hebrew and English. Chorus:

I promise you - my little girl,
That this will be the last war.

Here's a recording.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 13 Jan 19 - 05:30 PM

Back on 14 Feb 2003, BuckMulligan wrote,

"I never saw Draft Dodger Rag as an anti-war song. It's from Ochs's superpatriot stage and I've never been convinced he had his tongue in his cheek. I think he really was poking at draft dodgers (love to be wrong of course)."

Ochs' superpatriot stage? Draft Dodger Rag was on the I Ain't Marching Any More album, along with the title track, and Days of Decision, and Here's to the State of Mississippi, and Iron Lady, and Talking Birmingham Jam. I wasn't aware that Ochs ever had a "superpatriot stage", but if he did, I don't see how Draft Dodger Rag was part of it.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 13 Jan 19 - 05:23 PM

Back on 20 Feb 2003, GUEST,Longarm wrote, "Don't know about the song but Alistair Huelett wrot an anti war/leftwing song and the most telling line was: 'A bayonet has a working class man on each end"! Perceptive eh?"

There's a thread on that song, Don't Sign Up For War


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Jan 19 - 01:24 PM

But check out this thread:

/mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=146300#3387145


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,John Orford
Date: 13 Jan 19 - 12:18 AM

There are many fine ant-war songs - my favourite too is "Me Johnny I hardly knew ye". The whole story is told very simply; the poor girl is so shocked she makes mild fun of her soldier. It also shows the beautiful Irish way of singing tragic words to happy tunes,


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Kmccjoe1
Date: 12 Jan 19 - 11:09 PM

Anyone have the chords (or even the key) for 'A 1000 Candles, A 1000 Cranes'?


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 23 Feb 15 - 06:25 PM

Thank you. The comparison with Political Science is extraordinary.

On the face of it, Political Science might have been the follow-up record.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Feb 15 - 08:03 AM

> Was it a popular song?

No. It seems to have been recorded only once.

On the other hand, everyone was indeed thankful that the war was over, irrespective of the method.

That was especially true, on the Allied side, for the soldiers already in training for the invasion of Japan.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 23 Feb 15 - 07:32 AM

Another mention for Political Science by Randy Newman. It's perhaps better known as Let's Drop the Big One.

Boom goes London and boom Paree
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town

Oh, how peaceful it will be
We'll set everybody free
You'll wear a Japanese kimono, baby
And there'll be Italian shoes for me

They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 07:38 PM

"Bert, try Karl & Harty's "When the Atom Bomb Fell," released in December, 1945"

That song certainly celebrates dropping the atom bomb on the citizens of Hiroshima. Perhaps it reflected a thread of opinion at that time in America. Was it a popular song?


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Lighter (19 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 03:54 PM

Bert, try Karl & Harty's "When the Atom Bomb Fell," released in December, 1945:

Smoke and fire it did flow through the land of Tokio,
There was brimstone and dust everywhere.
When it all cleared away, there the cruel Japs did lay,
The answer to our fighting boys' prayers (Yes, Lord!)
The answer to our fighting boys' prayers.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,MartinRyan (19Feb15)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 03:53 PM

when the casualty ration was running at about twelve Japanese to one American - some diet!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Dave Hanson (19 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 03:52 PM

Tom Paxton's 'Jimmy Newman '


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,henryp (19 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 03:50 PM

The Morning Lies Heavy - by Allan Taylor.

"The young Scottish group, Breabach, have recorded the song I wrote in 1971, "The Morning Lies Heavy", a song inspired by my brother-in-law Jimmy who was called to the draft in America during the Vietnam War. It's great to know that a song I wrote so long ago still resonates with a new generation."


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,henryp (19 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 03:48 PM

From: Bert Date: 17 Feb 15 - 11:39 PM

"For some reason I don't recall ever hearing of a song that praises the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima. Probably the most anti war weapon ever invented.

"It saved an estimated one million American lives at a time when the casualty ration was running at about twelve Japanese to one American.
So that means that it saved twelve million Japanese."

Bert - It was so effective that they dropped an even bigger bomb on Nagasaki three days later. The thermo-nuclear-bomb is more powerful still.

Cranes over Hiroshima by Fred Small gives an alternative view.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Dave (18 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 03:47 PM

I would second Jordana's nomination of Sydney Carter's The Crow on the Cradle


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Bert (17 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 03:46 PM

For some reason I don't recall ever hearing of a song that praises the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima.

Probably the most anti war weapon ever invented.

It saved an estimated one million American lives at a time when the casualty ration was running at about twelve Japanese to one American.

So that means that it saved twelve million Japanese


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Subject: Lyr Add: ALL QUIET ALONG THE POTOMAC TO-NIGHT
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon 17 Feb 2015
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 03:45 PM

From The Southern Literary Messenger, Vol. 37 No. 2 (Richmond: MacFarlane & Fergusson, Feb., 1863), page 103.

[This is presented as a poem, not a song. Note that it consists of 4-line stanzas, whereas the song is rearranged as 8-line stanzas. No doubt this is what necessitated dropping 4 lines. I have boldfaced the words that are different from the song in the DT. Also note that the author Fontaine is not credited in the DT.]


"ALL QUIET ALONG THE POTOMAC TO-NIGHT."
By Lamar Fontaine, Company I, Second Regiment Virginia Cavalry. Written while on picket on the bank of the Potomac, 1861.

"All quiet along the Potomac to-night,"
Except here and there a stray picket
Is shot as he walks on his beat to and fro
By a rifleman hid in the thicket.

'Tis nothing?a private or two now and then
Will not count in the news of the battle;
Not an officer lost! only one of the men
Moaning out, all alone, the death-rattle.

"All quiet along the Potomac to-night,"
Where the soldiers lie peacefully dreaming,
And their tents in the rays of the clear autumn moon
And the light of their camp-fires are gleaming.

A tremulous sigh, as a gentle night wind
Thro' the forest leaves slowly is creeping,
While the stars up above, with their glittering eyes,
Keep guard o'er the army while sleeping.


There's only the sound of the lone sentry's tread,
As he tramps from the rock to the fountain,
And thinks of the two on the low trundle bed
Far away in the cot on the mountain.

His musket falls slack?his face dark and grim,
Grows gentle with memories tender,
As lie mutters a prayer for the children asleep,
And their mother?"may Heaven defend her."

The moon seems to shine as brightly as then?
That night when the love yet unspoken,
Leaped up to his lips, and when low murmur'd vows
Were pledged to be ever unbroken.

Then drawing his sleeve roughly over his eyes,
He dashes off the tears that are welling;
And gathers his gun close up to his breast
As if to keep down the heart's swelling.

He passes the fountain, the blasted pine tree,
And his footstep is lagging and weary;
Yet onward he goes thro' the broad belt of light,
Toward the shades of the forest so dreary.

Hark! was it the night-wind that rustled the leaves?
Was it the moonlight so wond'rously flashing?
It looked like a rifle! "Ha! Mary good by!"
And his life-blood is ebbing and splashing.

"All quiet along the Potomac to-night."
No sound save the rush of the river:
While soft falls the dew on the face of the dead,
The Picket's off duty forever.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 04 Nov 14 - 01:33 PM

I ws going to give my choice but the majority already gave it. Just worth mentioning that Dylan's God On Our Side, is in effect a version of Dominick Behan's, The Patriot Game


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: topical tom
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 01:57 PM

Sorry, in my post I misspelled the name McCutcheon. My apology!


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: topical tom
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 01:50 PM

I did not take the time yet to read all the posts but if it has not already been mentioned I would suggest Christmas in the Trenches by John Mcutcheon.Extremely moving!


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Subject: RE: Business Goes on as Usual
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 08:19 AM

Oops, just noticed that the two "Em"s at the end of the first two verses should be "E". Sorry for the mistake!

Jason


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Subject: Chords Add: Business Goes on as Usual (Fred H.)
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 09:36 PM

I'm gonna add one of my favorite anti-war songs to the list. Words by Fran Minkoff, music by Fred Hellerman of the Weavers, first sung in 1965 by Joe Frazier of the Chad Mitchell Trio on album "Violets of Dawn".


Business Goes on as Usual
(Fred Hellerman; Fran Minkoff)

Asus2    A7sus2    Asus2    A7sus2)


Asus2
Business goes on as usual -
                            G9
The corn and the profits are high.
       C Gsus4/B Am7    C    Gsus4/B Am
And the T-Vs      boom in every living room,
         FMaj7                      Em
And they tell us which deodorant to buy.


Asus2
Business goes on as usual,
                         G9
Except that my brother is dead.
       C   Gsus4/B Am7      C    Gsus4/B Am
He was twenty   -   five and very much   alive,
       FMaj7                                 Em
But the dreams have all been blasted from his head -


    Am G   Am          G
In a far-off land with a gun in his hand,
   F                   E       E7
He died in a war he did not understand!


    Am
And business goes on as usual -
                                  G9
There's plenty to choose from the rack.
       C Gsus4/B Am7       C      Gsus4/B Am
And the rumor    goes, the latest thing in clothes
FMaj7 Esus4
Will be...
Asus2
Black!


Am
Business goes on as usual...

Business goes on as usual...

Business goes on as usual...
                            Em G Am
Business goes on as usual...

As usual.

The chords above are based on John Denver's version - apparently he learnt it from Paul Prestopino.

I can't guarantee the chords are 100% accurate.

Jason


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Jordana
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 02:48 PM

I'm fond of "Crow on the Cradle," myself. Learned it from a Furnace Mountain CD.

The sheep's in the meadow
The cow's in the corn
Now is the time for a child to be born
He'll laugh at the moon
And cry for the sun
And if it's a boy he'll carry a gun
Sang the crow on the cradle

And if it should be that this baby's a girl
Never you mind if her hair doesn't curl
With rings on her fingers
And bells on her toes
And a bomber above her wherever she goes
Sang the crow on the cradle

The crow on the cradle
The black and the white
Somebody's baby is born for a fight
The crow on the cradle
The white and the black
Somebody's baby is not coming back
Sang the crow on the cradle

Your mother and father will sweat and they'll slave
To build you a coffin and dig you a grave
Hush-a-bye little one, never you weep
For we've got a toy that can put you to sleep
Sang the crow on the cradle

Bring me my gun, and I'll shoot that bird dead
That's what your mother and father once said
The crow on the cradle, what can we do
Ah, this is a thing that I'll leave up to you
Sang the crow on the cradle
Sang the crow on the cradle


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Mehitabel
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 11:06 PM

So many great songs have been mentioned but the one that always gets to me is Tom Lewis's song, "Some Mother's Son" which is included on his CD, "Mixed Cargo", apparently written in response to the murder of Jean McConville:

There's some mother's son on her doorstep lies bleeding,
with no one to give him the comfort he's needing,
And sure as her God's high above in His heaven,
with ten kids already, this one makes eleven,
Though he's wearing a uniform she ought to hate,
she cradles his poor head and seals her own fate -

For the one thing that binds us, when all's said and done -
every man dying is some mother's son.

Then twelve of her neighbours, apostles from hell,
tore her from her family, no time for: "Farewell",
No 'ashes to ashes' and no 'dust to dust',
no loving remembrance, this cannot be just,
She had daughters and sons, a family who loved her,
she was sentenced to death just for being a mother,

But the one thing that binds us, when all's said and done -
every man dying is some mother's son.

Somewhere there's a family who owe her a life,
a one-time young squaddie with kids and a wife,
When she thought he was dying she chose love and pity,
a terrible crime in this desperate city,
For when some mother's son on her doorstep lay bleeding
she knelt down to give him the comfort he was needing,

Now the one thing that binds us, when all's said and done -
every man dying is some mother's son.

I am also always brought to tears by David Francey's song, "Flowers of Saskatchewan".


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: JedMarum
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 01:07 PM

OK - just a bit of a wind-up. I know this is a "let's go to war" song and not an anti-war song. It's from a great American songwriter and thinker .... but still a good song.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: JedMarum
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 01:04 PM

How about Woody Guthrie's

The Sinking Of The Reuben James


Have you heard of a ship called the good Reuben James
Manned by hard fighting men both of honor and fame?
She flew the Stars and Stripes of the land of the free
But tonight she's in her grave at the bottom of the sea.

Tell me what were their names, tell me what were their names,
Did you have a friend on the good Reuben James?
What were their names, tell me, what were their names?
Did you have a friend on the good Reuben James

Well, a hundred men went down in that dark watery grave
When that good ship went down only forty-four were saved.
'Twas the last day of October we saved the forty-four
From the cold ocean waters and the cold icy shore.

It was there in the dark of that uncertain night
That we watched for the U-boats and waited for a fight.
Then a whine and a rock and a great explosion roared
And they laid the Reuben James on that cold ocean floor.

Now tonight there are lights in our country so bright
In the farms and in the cities they're telling of the fight.
And now our mighty battleships will steam the bounding main
And remember the name of that good Reuben James.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE GREAT MANDALA (Peter Yarrow)
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 12:13 PM

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned The Great Mandala---of Peter, Paul, and Mary's "Album 1700".

PETER, PAUL AND MARY
"The Great Mandala (The Wheel Of Life)"
(Peter Yarrow)

So I told him that he'd better shut his mouth
And do his job like a man.
And he answered "Listen, Father,
I will never kill another."
He thinks he's better
than his brother that died
What the hell does he think he's doing
To his father who brought him up right?

[Chorus:]
Take your place on The Great Mandala
As it moves through your brief moment of time.
Win or lose now you must choose now
And if you lose you're only losing your life.

Tell the jailer not to bother
With his meal of bread and water today.
He is fasting 'til the killing's over
He's a martyr, he thinks he's a prophet.
But he's a coward, he's just playing a game
He can't do it, he can't change it
It's been going on for ten thousand years

[Chorus]

Tell the people they are safe now
Hunger stopped him, he lies still in his cell.
Death has gagged his accusations

We are free now, we can kill now,
We can hate now, now we can end the world
We're not guilty, he was crazy
And it's been going on for ten thousand years!

Take your place on The Great Mandala
As it moves through your brief moment of time.
Win or lose now you must choose now
And if you lose you've only wasted your life.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: PHJim
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 11:51 AM

I haven't read the whole thread, but Steve Goodman's Ballad Of Penny Evans deserves a mention:


Oh my name is Penny Evans and my age is twenty-one
A young widow in the war that's being fought in Viet Nam
And I have two infant daughters and I do the best I can
Now they say the war is over, but I think it's just begun.

And I remember I was seventeen on the day I met young Bill
At his father's grand piano, we'd play good old 'Heart and Soul'
Well, I only knew the left hand part and he the right so well
He's the only boy I slept with and the only one I will.

It's first we had a baby girl and we had two good years
It was next the 1A notice came and we parted without tears
It was nine months from our last good night our second babe appears
So it's ten months and a telegram confirming all our fears.

And now every month I get a check from an Army bureaucrat
And it's every month I tear it up and I mail the damn thing back.
Do you think that makes it all right, do you think I'd fall for that ?
And you can keep your bloody money, it sure won't bring my Billy back.

I never cared for politics, and speeches I don't understand,
And likewise never took no charity from any living man
But tonight there's fifty thousand gone in that unhappy land
And fifty thousand 'Heart and Soul's' being played with just one hand.

And my name is Penny Evans and I've just gone twenty-one
A young widow in the war that's being fought in Viet Nam
And I have two infant daughters and I thank God I have no sons
Now they say the war is over, but I think it's just begun.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,AlbertsLion
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 06:39 AM

Surprised no-one has mentioned Bright Golden Buttons by Shel Silverstein. It's one I sometimes do and last night I performed my personal favourite, The White Cockade (Trad updated, by friend Peter Kay),to a bunch of young soldiers in my local pub - they liked it a lot and bought all the beer! Last verse:

'from Flanders to the Falklands, Crimea to Dunkirk
the ones who give the orders are not the ones to do the work
it's not their wives who sorrow, it's not their wounds that bleed
and they are not, no they are not
fit to govern, they are not fit to lead!

Amen!


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: ollaimh
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 12:40 PM

phil ochs also wrote the great song: "the marines have landed on the shores of santo domingo"

I wonder if bruce Cockburn's :" if I had a rocket launcher" qualifies but it's a great song , as his older song:"look away across the bay, yanqui gunboat come this way"

and if you are into poetry I do like "the naming of parts" by reid but w.h. Auden wrote the definitive poem about mass war.if you haven't read:"the shield of Achilles" your are not really participating in the human condition.

Ayden's "sonnet from china have many great anti war poems as well--especially the original unedited version. like

here war is harmless like a monument
a telephone is talking to a man
pins on maps declare that troops were sent
a boy brings milk in bowls,there is a plan

for living men in terror of their lives
who thirst at dawn who were to thirst at noon
who can be lat, and are, and miss their wives
and unlike an idea can die too soon.

but ideas can be real although men die
for we have seen a myriad of faces
estatic from one lie

and pins on maps can really point to places
where live is evil now
nanking, dachau


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Bearheart
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 12:20 PM

I did try the search but it wasn't helpful, just lots of references to the date. Searching Fred Small got me to his site but the link to lyrics hasn't been set up yet. And searching Fred Small here didn't bring it up either. Guess I'll just have to do a separate thread.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: cetmst
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 05:47 PM

Bearheart - type "Denmark 1943" in Lyrics and Knowledge box at top.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 11:35 AM

Ed McCurdy wrote

Last night I had the strangest dream
I never dreamed before


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Eddie1
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 06:56 AM

When I saw this thread I thought, "Looks interesting! Funny, I haven't seen this before!" Then I found a post from me some 4 years ago! I used to have a memory!
Still stand by the two songs I mentioned for the same reasons:

Pete Seeger Lyrics
Bring 'Em Home Lyrics
If you love your Uncle Sam, Bring them home, bring them home.
Support our boys in Vietnam, Bring them home, bring them home.

It'll make our generals sad, I know, Bring them home, bring them home.
They want to tangle with the foe, Bring them home, bring them home.

They want to test their weaponry, Bring them home, bring them home.
But here is their big fallacy, Bring them home, bring them home.

I may be right, I may be wrong, Bring them home, bring them home.
But I got a right to sing this song, Bring them home, bring them home.

There's one thing I must confess, Bring them home, bring them home.
I'm not really a pacifist, Bring them home, bring them home.

If an army invaded this land of mine, Bring them home, bring them home.
You'd find me out on the firing line, Bring them home, bring them home.

Even if they brought their planes to bomb, Bring them home, bring them home.
Even if they brought helicopters and napalm, Bring them home, bring them home.

Show those generals their fallacy: Bring them home, bring them home.
They don't have the right weaponry, Bring them home, bring them home.

For defense you need common sense, Bring them home, bring them home.
They don't have the right armaments, Bring them home, bring them home.

The world needs teachers, books and schools, Bring them home, bring them home.
And learning a few universal rules, Bring them home, bring them home.

So if you love your Uncle Sam, Bring them home, bring them home.
Support our boys in Vietnam, Bring them home, bring them home.

And:
From Ed McCurdy
Last night I had the strangest dream
I ever dreamed before
I dreamed the world had all agreed
To put an end to war
I dreamed I saw a mighty room
The room was filled with men
And the paper they were signing said
They'd never fight again

And when the papers all were signed
And a million copies made
They all joined hands and bowed their heads
And grateful prayers were prayed
And the people in the streets below
Were dancing round and round
And guns and swords and uniforms
Were scattered on the ground

Last night I had the strangest dream
I ever dreamed before
I dreamed the world had all agreed
To put an end to war

Eddie


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 08:41 PM

> and I can't recommend it more highly.

Thank you, Dick.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 07:52 PM

"The Greatest Ant-War Song Ever Written" is the title of Jon Lighter's utterly brilliant analysis of "Johnny I hardly Knew Ye". It's a study of the song's history (which everyone seems to have gotten wrong), and the what it has meant to people in a changing culture.
It's $9.95 from CAMSCO Music, and I can't recommend it more highly.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Bearheart
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 03:55 PM

I found this thread while looking for a Feed Small song about the Danish peoples' evacuation of the Danish Jews to Sweden, when Hitler's henchmen were going to round them up and take them off to concentration camps, called December 1943. Does anyone here have the words? I was told of it by a woman I met whose parents were holocaust survivors. My dad (Danish American) was 13 at the time this happened, and it made a huge impact on him. Something he was very proud of. 2000 Danish Jews were saved by their countrymen.

I would really like to find this for him.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Gulliver
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 02:28 PM

My interest is simply that my grandfather was at Gallipoli, with the Dublin Fusiliers, and I have a few well-worn books of his. He was evacuated and then went on to the Western Front and then to Russia with the Expeditionary Force before being demobbed. Don


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 12:51 PM

My apologies Gulliver. Major Wilhelm Willmar, a Bavarian Cavalry Officer who was in command of the Turkish Forces tasked with defending the heights overlooking Suvla did indeed have a few artillery pieces but no machine guns. No account I have read makes any mention of mines, the confusion on the part of the landing forces is attributed to the landing being undertaken at night, a complete and utter lack of leadership combined with troops being set down in places as much as 1000 yards out of position thereby causing them to miss the landmarks and topographical features that they had been briefed on.

My particular interest in this campaign was initially fired by listening to my next door neighbour when I was a boy, "Pop" Collier, who was fortunate enough to have lived through it. Many believe that the Dardanelles Campaign and Gallipoli only involved the ANZACs - it didn't not by a bloody long shot:

Gallipoli casualties

Allied Total 44,092 Killed/ 96,937 Wounded/141,029 Total Casualties

United Kingdom - 21,255 Killed/52,230 Wounded/73,485 total casualties
France (est) - 10,000 Killed/17,000 Wounded/27,000 total est casualties
Australia - 8,709 Killed/19,441 Wounded/28,150 total casualties
New Zealand - 2,721 Killed/4,752 Wounded/7,473 total casualties
India - 1,358 Killed/3,421 Wounded/4,779 total casualties
Newfoundland - 49 Killed/93 Wounded/142 total casualties

Ottoman Empire (est) - 86,692 Killed/164,617 Wounded/251,309 total casualties

The "Butchers Bill" in full - 130,784 Killed/237,290 Wounded/336,048 total casualties.

""In the English-speaking world, many people who otherwise might not have heard of the landing at Suvla Bay know something of its history through the song "And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" written in 1972 by Eric Bogle and covered by numerous artists including the Clancy Brothers, Joan Baez and the Pogues. The song, while emotionally charged and vivid, is not an accurate historical account of the landing and subsequent events.""

""Suvla Bay also plays a role in the climax of the Peter Weir movie Gallipoli (1981 film) in which the third and final wave of Australian troops is ordered into a suicidal advance to maintain pressure on the Turkish/German troops despite the failure of the landing. The fictional character General Gardiner orders the advance reconsidered, with the famous line "at Suvla" ..."the [English] officers are sitting on the beach drinking cups of tea".""

Of course the incident upon which the film Gallipoli was based had nothing whatsoever to to with the landings at Suvla, the attack was the ANZAC operation to take the "Nek".

""The ANZACs are revered as heroes and, in Australia are stereotyped as typical tough Australians betrayed by incompetent and callous British superiors, impressions re-affirmed by films such as Peter Weir's Gallipoli, even though, according to Australian historian Les Carlyon, "the scale of the tragedy of the Nek was mostly the work of two Australian incompetents, Hughes and Antill.""

As I said previously if you are going to go to the trouble of writing a retrospective song about an actual event then the least you should do is take the trouble to get it right.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Gulliver
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 09:49 PM

Teribus, I'm not defending Eric Bogle's account, I'm just disputing your accuracy in claiming that no-one was killed in the landings at Suvla. And BTW the same source below stated that the Turkish defenders there under their German commander did have some heavy guns and field guns.

From CALLWELL, MAJOR-GENERAL SIR C.E. The Dardanelles Campaigns and Their Lessons. Constable And Co, 1919:
Beach A as a matter of fact had turned out to be a bad landing-place, quite apart from this particular trouble (ie, rifle-fire). The water inshore was shallow and several of the beetles grounded some way out, obliging the troops to struggle to land through water as much as four and a half feet deep. Beetles and troops were, moreover, enfiladed from about Gazi Baba as well as from Lala Baba, and the beach itself was sown with land mines which caused casualties and confusion in the dark.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: LostHills
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 02:48 AM

We're fortunate to have so many great anti-war songs. And then again, maybe we're not....

I'm glad so many folks listed Where Have All The Flowers Gone, and I Ain't Marching Anymore, surprised that I didn't see Turn, Turn , Turn, or If I Had A Hammer, or Down By The Riverside, or I've Got To Know, or Bring 'em Home.

The greatest ant-war song ever written is Blowin' In The Wind.

If you play all the anti-war songs you know at a peace vigil, that is the song that will engage people more than any other. It's the greatest peace song ever written.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 02:46 AM

Sorry Gulliver forgot this one:

"Johnny Turk he was ready, he primed himself well
He rained us with bullets and he showered us with shell
And in five minutes flat we were all blown to hell
He nearlyy blew back home to Australia"

Not at Suvla he didn't

- No Australian troops
- Only 1,500 Turks present against over 20,000 British troops
- The German Officer commanding the Turkish Forces had no machine guns and absolutely no artillery.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 02:40 AM

Teribus wrote: Fact of the matter: The Landings at Suvla Bay were completely unopposed nobody died.

Sorry Gulliver but I will stand by that in the point I was making with regard to Eric Bogle's lyrics:

"Oh its well I remember that terrible day
When our blood stained the sand and the water
How in that hell they called Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter"

The fatalities you mention occurred AFTER the men had got ashore and had started belatedly to move inland. The Turks only had 1,500 men watching Suvla Bay from the inland side of the Salt lake. The delay in moving men inland to take the heights turned what would have been a success into a military disaster and inevitable stalemate of trench warfare, but nobody died during the landings themselves and there were certainly no instances of the carnage suggested by Bogle's lyrics, another glaring discrepancy is of course that while Australian troops did land at ANZAC Cove only British Troops and formations landed at Suvla, what Australians did die on the day of the landings at Suvla were the poor bastards ordered to attack Lone Pine Ridge in support of the landings, similar attacks were also launched to support the Suvla landings to the south at Helles Point.


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Jim P
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 01:57 AM

Like some who responded above, I find many of the songs mentioned above have lost their effectiveness through repetition or, it must be said, sheer heavy handedness. While I understand the need of the singer/songwriter to get the message across, sometimes a light touch works better than a sledgehammer. Here's one that always makes me mist up:

ONE OF THE MANY
by Phil Sampson

She's the center of attraction everywhere she goes
Life of the party, and everybody knows
That trouble's never touched her, they think she never cries
But I saw something in those pretty eyes.

A momentary lapse, it took her by surprise
It came on accidentally and she dropped her disguise
It only lasted for a moment, then the feeling it was gone
But I could see a memory lingered on.

She's one of the many whose life has come undone
And the first of a million more to follow
And as long as soldiers go to war and lovers stay at home
There'll be someone leaving someone else tomorrow.

One night she felt like talking, I happened to be around
She began to tell a story of a love she'd barely found
And how it had been torn away, a story in her life
Leaving only empty in her eyes.

Now the medals and the ribbons and the shiny silver wings
They don't serve to comfort her, they don't mean a thing
They only tell a story about the price of glory
Her lover paid it all at once, now she pays every day.

She's one of the many...


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Gulliver
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 02:51 PM

Teribus wrote: Fact of the matter: The Landings at Suvla Bay were completely unopposed nobody died.

This is not quite correct. The landings at Suvla Bay were chaotic (the commander, Stopford, was subsequently sacked). The first companies of the 11th Division that landed at B beach suffered casualties: one third of the men and almost all the officers. On A Beach shortly afterwards the 11th Battalion suffered 200 casualties upon landing there. They then became targets for Turkish snipers. The following day after a forced march an exhausted 32nd Brigade was practically wiped out after a bayonet charge.

Don


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 01:30 PM

With God On Our Side


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Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 01:25 PM

Is it me or has no-one mentioned The Banks of the nile? Also pady's lament (the one the starts well it's by the hush me boys and thats to mind your noise.) Still eric bogle is the master.


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