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Eggs and Sessions

ced2 22 Dec 02 - 02:42 PM
banjomad (inactive) 22 Dec 02 - 03:09 PM
John Hardly 22 Dec 02 - 03:16 PM
banjomad (inactive) 22 Dec 02 - 05:07 PM
RangerSteve 22 Dec 02 - 06:18 PM
Declan 23 Dec 02 - 11:19 AM
KingBrilliant 23 Dec 02 - 11:42 AM
Bat Goddess 23 Dec 02 - 12:13 PM
chip a 23 Dec 02 - 12:30 PM
Noreen 23 Dec 02 - 12:33 PM
KingBrilliant 23 Dec 02 - 12:36 PM
KingBrilliant 23 Dec 02 - 12:39 PM
WyoWoman 23 Dec 02 - 12:40 PM
Dead Horse 23 Dec 02 - 02:20 PM
SINSULL 23 Dec 02 - 08:39 PM
Liz the Squeak 23 Dec 02 - 08:50 PM
Doug Chadwick 24 Dec 02 - 01:03 AM
ced2 24 Dec 02 - 04:33 AM
shankmac 24 Dec 02 - 04:55 AM
Dead Horse 24 Dec 02 - 05:27 AM
Nigel Parsons 24 Dec 02 - 05:31 AM
mooman 24 Dec 02 - 05:35 AM
KingBrilliant 24 Dec 02 - 05:36 AM
banjomad (inactive) 24 Dec 02 - 08:20 AM
C-flat 24 Dec 02 - 08:29 AM
Dead Horse 24 Dec 02 - 08:48 PM
JennyO 24 Dec 02 - 10:46 PM
JennieG 24 Dec 02 - 11:48 PM
banjomad (inactive) 25 Dec 02 - 03:33 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Dec 02 - 04:42 AM
Mr Red 25 Dec 02 - 05:48 AM
GUEST,LadyNancy 25 Dec 02 - 08:17 AM
Allan Dennehy 27 Dec 02 - 06:42 AM
Sandra in Sydney 27 Dec 02 - 06:59 AM
ced2 27 Dec 02 - 02:42 PM
banjomad (inactive) 27 Dec 02 - 07:42 PM
Sandra in Sydney 28 Dec 02 - 06:53 AM
leprechaun 29 Dec 02 - 03:15 AM
the lemonade lady 30 Dec 02 - 10:14 PM
JennyO 01 Jan 03 - 10:54 AM
KingBrilliant 02 Jan 03 - 04:04 AM
Sandra in Sydney 02 Jan 03 - 06:17 AM
Dave Bryant 02 Jan 03 - 08:43 AM
Naemanson 02 Jan 03 - 12:19 PM
ced2 12 Jan 03 - 04:28 PM
ced2 12 Jan 03 - 04:31 PM
Dipsodeb 12 Jan 03 - 07:31 PM
Hrothgar 13 Jan 03 - 03:18 AM
GUEST,Davetnova 13 Jan 03 - 04:36 AM
banjomad (inactive) 13 Jan 03 - 05:16 AM
Sandra in Sydney 13 Jan 03 - 06:05 AM
stevetheORC 13 Jan 03 - 06:18 AM
ced2 13 Jan 03 - 07:03 AM
GUEST,Rag 13 Jan 03 - 08:21 AM
banjomad (inactive) 13 Jan 03 - 09:02 AM
Roger the Skiffler 13 Jan 03 - 09:20 AM
HuwG 29 Jan 03 - 12:31 PM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 29 Jan 03 - 01:09 PM
mike the knife 29 Jan 03 - 01:57 PM
dick greenhaus 29 Jan 03 - 06:29 PM
Susanl 30 Jan 03 - 04:03 PM
alison 30 Jan 03 - 08:02 PM
Alice 30 Jan 03 - 08:14 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 30 Jan 03 - 11:18 PM
HuwG 31 Jan 03 - 01:39 PM
Letty 31 Jan 03 - 03:46 PM
banjomad (inactive) 31 Jan 03 - 05:45 PM
Beccy 31 Jan 03 - 05:48 PM
Beccy 31 Jan 03 - 05:49 PM
mooman 31 Jan 03 - 08:52 PM
Clean Supper 01 Feb 03 - 05:55 AM
Letty 01 Feb 03 - 01:54 PM
ced2 10 Feb 03 - 04:26 AM
Dave Bryant 10 Feb 03 - 04:45 AM
Mad Tom 10 Feb 03 - 05:00 AM
banjomad (inactive) 10 Feb 03 - 08:55 AM
GUEST,toribw who should be working 10 Feb 03 - 02:53 PM
ced2 11 Feb 03 - 06:17 AM
banjomad (inactive) 11 Feb 03 - 08:01 AM
ced2 11 Feb 03 - 09:04 AM
mike the knife 11 Feb 03 - 01:11 PM
banjomad (inactive) 11 Feb 03 - 07:53 PM
ced2 12 Feb 03 - 05:50 AM
banjomad (inactive) 12 Feb 03 - 07:02 AM
ced2 12 Feb 03 - 09:01 AM
hacksawbob 12 Feb 03 - 11:22 AM
Mugwump 29 Mar 03 - 01:37 PM
ced2 29 Mar 03 - 02:00 PM
Mugwump 29 Mar 03 - 02:58 PM
Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House 30 Mar 03 - 05:33 AM
GUEST,John Barden 31 Mar 03 - 05:49 AM
GUEST,cath 31 Mar 03 - 07:31 AM
GUEST 31 Mar 03 - 10:27 AM
GUEST,Concepta McFadyen 31 Mar 03 - 05:45 PM
ced2 01 Apr 03 - 07:12 AM
Lynn W 01 Apr 03 - 12:10 PM
GUEST,Danny Mackay 01 Apr 03 - 06:02 PM
GUEST,Rag 03 Apr 03 - 07:20 AM
GUEST,John Barden 03 Apr 03 - 08:30 AM
Clean Supper 04 Apr 03 - 06:30 AM
GUEST,allen woodpecker 04 Apr 03 - 06:58 AM
Roger the Skiffler 04 Apr 03 - 08:47 AM
JennyO 04 Apr 03 - 09:52 AM
GUEST 04 Apr 03 - 10:05 AM
GUEST,allen woodpecker 04 Apr 03 - 10:18 AM
JennyO 04 Apr 03 - 12:48 PM
Sabine 04 Apr 03 - 04:27 PM
GUEST 10 Jan 07 - 08:02 AM
SINSULL 10 Jan 07 - 10:59 AM
Bee 10 Jan 07 - 04:49 PM
GUEST,Cressida Ford 10 Oct 07 - 01:12 PM
SINSULL 10 Oct 07 - 01:14 PM
Melissa 10 Oct 07 - 08:22 PM
alison 10 Oct 07 - 09:35 PM
GUEST,LTS pretending to work 11 Oct 07 - 02:18 AM
Declan 11 Oct 07 - 04:31 PM
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Subject: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 02:42 PM

Advice required please. How does one deal with an egg in a session? Not the useful sort of egg that can be fried, boiled or poached. This type is the sort that gets shaken, most frequently out of time, and at a volume that is just sufficient to put musicians off their timing. I had thought that a 4lb lump hammer was an idea, but my good friend (who shall remain nameless) advises this is a touch on the crude side. He thought that a 1.5lb engineers ball pein hammer would suffice. Any better ideas?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 03:09 PM

nameless good friend now recommends, 1. scrammbling, 2. superglueing to the table or possibly making the unnamed egg shaker an offer he can't refuse ie. death by banjo.
many blessings on you ced2.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: John Hardly
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 03:16 PM

I have been "accompanied" by egg on a rousing version I did of James Taylor's "Close Your Eyes".

I sympathize.

The 4lb hammer sounds about right.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 05:07 PM

Yeah John but on the player not the egg.
Peace and goodwill to all, Dave


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: RangerSteve
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 06:18 PM

Hammers are nice, but how much more satisfying would it be if you just put on a pair of heavy boots, military or engineer, and stomped on it?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Declan
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 11:19 AM

The traditional method is to hit the egg on the top hard with a tea-spoon until the shell breaks into small fragments and then use a knife to remove the top.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 11:42 AM

LOL

:@)


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:13 PM

I was once accompanied on "Aunt Clara" by a female chorus (the Claranettes?) with Slinkies.

Sigh.

Eggs are no worse than out-of-rhythm handclappers (by far the most common), "listeners" who bring tambourines (fer-pete's-sake) to a session, and the occasional clue-less bodhran player who thumps along merrily to a different beat.

My image is of Tom stomping over, grabbing the tambourine and breaking it across his knee, but I don't think he actually DID that. (Wanted to.)

Is education an option?

Linn


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: chip a
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:30 PM

Sometimes they keep the beat just fine. If not overly loud, I don't mind at all. A young spoons (wooden) player shows up at a couple of local jams. I'm always happy to see him. He's very good and tends to pull stragglers back onto the beat. I heard a clawhammer banjo picker with an egg in his right hand as he played. This guy was a good banjo picker and he made the egg work just fine.
If the egg person is off the beat though, I think the best remedy is to kill him/her and hang the body outside as a subtle warning to others.

:-),
Chip


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Noreen
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:33 PM

'Listener' in a session with a fried egg on his head.
ced2:       "Why have you got a fried egg on your head?"
'Listener': "I tried it with my shaky egg but it kept rolling off"
(Well, it is the season for cracker humour?)


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:36 PM

Its christmas - perhaps you could buy the owner a new (quieter) egg?? (this may not sound like it, but it is a serious thought).

Kris


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:39 PM

AND - another thing.....
did you know that you can buy a set of THREE shaky eggs in a tube - which gives you triple the volume!!!!!!!!!!

:@)


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: WyoWoman
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:40 PM

You think YOU got troubles? We have a guy who persists in bringing an entire CONGA drum to our community jams. This wouldn't be terribly awful, on certain songs and in certain ways, if he could actually, like, find the beat.

HowEVer, this is a community jam and the purpose is to encourage people to participate in music, so ... nobody tells him not to bring the damned drum. I have, however, motioned for him to be quiet a few times, or slapped loudly on my thigh (resisted urge to slap loudly on his very head) to get him to hear the beat.

I agree with Chip though that subtle egg-playing or various other rhythm instruments can be nice -- depending on the sort of music the jam is doing. And this truly is a matter of education. Hell, I took a tambourine to MY first jam a few years back -- my only previous experience with group music was rock jams and bands many years back and that was perfectly appropriate. I took a clue, however, from the group and didn't make that mistake again. Unfortunately, some people don't seem to be able to take cues from their surroundings and eliminate behaviors that don't work, don't fit or are just completely frickin' annoying.

The Lord puts these people in our jams to teach us patience, generosity and humility.

Thank you,
Sister Wyo


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Dead Horse
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 02:20 PM

Arrange for a cooking pot atop a primus stove to be placed prominently within the music circle.
Attach a sign reading *Eggs to be placed in here*.
If said percussionist doesn't get the message, THEN use violence.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 08:39 PM

How about just taking him aside and diplomatically explaining the problem to him? Ask him to lower the volume and listen carefully for the beat.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 08:50 PM

I favour returning the said egg to the place from whence it came, but seeing as how we don't have a plastic chicken, your orifices will have to do.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 01:03 AM

Maybe I have just been lucky, but the egg shakers, bohdran players and other percussionists that I've met at sessions seem to be blessed with both good timing and tact. If they are playing too loud, it's probably to drown out my scratchy fiddle playing. The biggest problem I have is sitting to the left of a squeeze-box and having the bass notes drowning out the rest of the players but I don't complain about it. I just try to sit somewhere else.

Technical perfection may be admirable but can't always be achieved. How are you to learn if you are not encouraged to try and join in. Enthusiasm should be moulded, not squashed.

The world looks a better place if you don't look down your nose at it.


Doug C


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 04:33 AM

Thanks for some useful advice folks... I had to say I had contemplated returning the egg via an orifice but I am afraid that it would lead to mass fainting amongst the more squeamish. Primus & cooking pot... I like that. However there must be more still to come. Is it possible to insert superglue into the egg... didn't the CIA once devise a way of inserting something nasty via a needle that could not be felt? I believe their problem was they could not get near their intended victim (Castro), we have solved that problem thanks to the need for the egg player to get beer at regular intervals... and the egg is left unprotected!!! Anyone got a tame skewer?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: shankmac
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 04:55 AM

We have fortnightly sessions in the lounge of a local pub and the landlord thought he would give a helping hand to encourage rythmically challanged people by making up his own eggs and giving them out to everone who does not have an instrument. He used those little plastic photographic film containers filled with dried peas/lentils. 30 eggs sustaining 25 different beats makes it tricky trying to remember the second verse of any song or even why you want to continue living.

Happy sessions

Mac


P.S. Anyone out there coming to the Scottish Borders for NewYear?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Dead Horse
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 05:27 AM

Scottish Borders. Presumably Scotch Eggs supplied?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 05:31 AM

DeadHorse: sod the eggs, I'll just have the Scotch!

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: mooman
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 05:35 AM

Anybody hitting Letty's egg with a 4lb hammer will have to contend with the Wrath of Moo...

moo


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 05:36 AM

Shankmac that sounds like a classic!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 08:20 AM

knowing the aforementiond egg shaker I realised what a mistake it would be to superglue the egg to the table, he would just pick up the table with the egg and shake harder, the truth is it all started with
a christmas present of a plastic shaky tangerine, this was substituted for a real one several times so he invested in a shaky egg. Everybody loves him really, well those of us who are not sane any more.

Peace and love, Dave


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: C-flat
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 08:29 AM

Perhaps if you bought the person in question an egg timer for xmas?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Dead Horse
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 08:48 PM

Egg timer. Vitronome?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: JennyO
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 10:46 PM

I have a shaky peach.

But when I play it, it's only done in the BEST POSSIBLE TASTE!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: JennieG
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 11:48 PM

I have a shaky peach...AND and shaky lime! And a reasonable sense of rhythm.
Merry Christmas
JennieG


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 25 Dec 02 - 03:33 AM

I've just got the shakes in general this morning. I think its an instrumentcalled the DTs.
Happy christmas to all, Dave


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Dec 02 - 04:42 AM

Give him or her a hard-boiled egg to use instead.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Dec 02 - 05:48 AM

shaky banana conjours up all sorts of images - I was too polite to make reference to them when my girlfriend was handed one (I can be polite!)

ced2

One crude but effective way is to record the session and demonstrate the effect to the perpetrator. Particularly if you get emphasis on the egg. It is a "holding up a mirror" wheeze.   How you get to the point of telling the person I don't know though. P'raps on the pretext of wanting the tune and replaying in session and point out you can't hear it for the sizzling egg - hopefully the others will comment. Good luck.

PS how are you on bodhrans? NOW, how are you on red ones?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,LadyNancy
Date: 25 Dec 02 - 08:17 AM

I was subjected to the "egg'n'player" last evening. Why is it that it makes ME doubt MY rhythm...!!**??!!

Oh those people who want to take part and go out to buy a drum to bang and then proceed to bang it loudly, without rhythm, without sympathy or empathy... I guess looking at it that way, an egg is quite harmless - unless glued to a table per se.

Wait 'til I get my hands on the person or people who provided the original tangerine to this egg-shaker....

I LOVE a well-played percussion instrument - bodhran (whatever colour or size), kettle drum, snare drum, any other drum or even egg, and I admire beyond all a percussion player who can vary volume, tone, pitch etc. but I would gladly be the perpetrator of the hammer, size 12 boot, JCB, super-glue or other silencing method for the players who do not/cannot demonstrate such dexterity in playing and manners.....

LadyNancy


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 06:42 AM

Hardboil the bastard! No, not the egg, just the idjit who'se shakin it.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 06:59 AM

Shaky eggs, or "performers" with no ear/rythmn/voice - in this case it's all the same, a person completely oblivious that their contribution is not wanted nor is it appreciated.

In the case that I refer to (& JennyO knows it), I have contemplated a piece of 4x4 thumped repeatedly on the offending head.

sandra (who sings along with the chorus cos she knows she can't hold a tune on her own)


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 02:42 PM

4x4 what? Timber, Bright Drawn Mild Steel, Concrete( if this was reinforced?).... nice thought but have you actually tried out this remedy? I have visions of a high rate of success but it could be a touch messy.
On another note (or lack of it in the case of a shaken egg) where did the shaking eggs originate... they weren't an Australian revenge for rabbits were they?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 07:42 PM

it was probably something similar to the way bohdrans used to be advertised, ' want to join a session and play Irish music, then get a bohdran and join in ', just like that. No musical knowledge whatsoever
required. They are most likely secretly manufactured by anti folk music people or as we know them cuntry and western people.
Cheers, Dave


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 06:53 AM

I didn't know that 4x4 could come in any other material - thanks foor the ideas. Seriously but, I don't think any type/weight of 4x4 would be noticed on that offending head.

I know nothing about shaky eggs, except several good groups I know use them on occasion (use them well & properly, that is)

I think the Akubra is the Australian revenge against the rabbit - many rabbit skins go into making the felt used in these hats.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: leprechaun
Date: 29 Dec 02 - 03:15 AM

If that egg is more than six months old, the hammer idea might need some reconsideration.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 10:14 PM

I've got a shakey lemon.

Sal


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: JennyO
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 10:54 AM

Sandra, just spent the last 5 days in close proximity to that person - aaaaaaaarrrrrggggghhhh!!!!!

Seeya

Jenny


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 04:04 AM

Even a good percussist can be a pain in the A if you want to vary the tempo - the point being that the percussion tends to define the tempo - so while they think they are accompanying, sometimes they end up in the driving seat


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 06:17 AM

Recently my absolute favourite singer/songwriter was nearly crossed off my list of friends when he picked up a drum & joined a very loud pair of musos (hurdy-gurdy & pipes) in a very confined, echoey space!! I had to leave the room & if Jenny does carry out her plan of booking the pair, I might take a sickie that night. No doubt it will be a great evening cos they are fantastic musos, but ...!!

I hope you're feeling better now, JennyO

sandra


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 08:43 AM

I must admit that I prefer shaky egg players to bad but enthusiastic bodhran players - but then Essex Girl usually has several (shaky eggs) with her.

One of the most amusing sights that I've seen was a fellow who played a red coloured one. He held it in his hand with his fingers wrapped round it and just the pointed end sticking out. The action was a forward and back movement in his lap. He had a far-away look on his face and we were all wondering if he'd reach ejaculation !

I suppose one solution would be to spray paint some real eggs and discreetly substitute them for the plastic ones. The player would then try so hard to get some sound out of them that they would probably break them - even if they didn't they'd make wonderful scrambled egg afterwards !


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Naemanson
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 12:19 PM

What is your solution for the fiddle or guitar that's out of tune but is still playing along? You did say this was a session. That means, to me, that you want people to play along. By playing in a session you are opening yourself to musicians of all instrument qualities and musical abilities. So you should suck it up and move on.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 04:28 PM

Person with big hammer needed! Banjomad will direct!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 04:31 PM

Large Hammer needed...banjomad will supply directions.. my head is still rattling


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Dipsodeb
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 07:31 PM

I think shaky eggs can be perfectly fine,as can all percussion instruments they often add life to a tune. Of course this is only true, if played well.
I often feel that some folkies are too far up their rears, in terms of always sounding so perfect and often forget that everyone starts somewhere and often it's with a percussion instrument. What happened to encouraging people?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Hrothgar
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 03:18 AM

Who was that, Sandra?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,Davetnova
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 04:36 AM

Like whiskey and guiness the complex and convoluted rythyms introduced to folk music from the world music scene by the shaky egg are an aquired taste, requiring a sophisticated musical palate. Education is the key.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 05:16 AM

Shaky eggs have turned me into a criminal, I confess I stole THE shaky egg from the person who plays it in our sunday afternoon session
when he accidently left it behind, Ifully intended to return the following week but I forgot, he/she turned up with another one anyway.
Guilt now prevents me from owning up.
The say cofession is good for the soul, I think I will live the rest of my life wracked with guilt and shame/
Humbly, Dave


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 06:05 AM

Our session had to move cos of an excessively amplified (& very good) Irish band in the front bar. We were unable to find another pub, so started having sessions in member's houses BY INVITATION ONLY!! Now we don't have the problem of the person who's head would otherwise have attracted a large piece of wood/steel/concrete ...

full details have been sent to Hrothgar who used to be a Sydneysider & will be welcome anytime he comes back.

Hrothgar - are you running any sessions at the National? Or even, any more workshops? See ya then.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: stevetheORC
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 06:18 AM

I humbly suggest that the said eggs be exchanged in a sneaky fashion for a handgrenade minus pin. This I do believe would solve the problem in a satisfactory manner, Please remember to send eggy shaker out of room to practice first!!!!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 07:03 AM

What a cracking idea! Only problem is I don't think the pub would take too kindly to having to clear up all the mess, there is a remote possibility we may not be invited to return!!!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,Rag
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 08:21 AM

We've had all sorts of scratchy, clicky, bangy things arrive at sessions and they can be a real nuisance. Over Christmas we had a family arrive with little Sebastian (name changed to protect the guilty) in tow who had a new bodhran for Christmas. "Will there be musicians playing tonight because Sebastian want to play his drum?!!". When he did, he was loud, out of time and apparently deaf.

The intervention of a kindly folky who could play and who gave the lad a few pointers seemed to bring things to a head - child gets huffy, parents get annoyed, parents and child leave, music continues.

On the matter of eggs, we passed one around the pub until it vanished but that was exceptional when the owner was being deliberately bloody-minded and trying to irritate.

We try to encourage people to play but also to recognise the effort required to learn how to. Percussion seems to be regarded as the easy and cheap way to get into a session but the effect can be awful with insensitive players. We've had a bunch of desert spoons trying to accompany a slow air on a fiddle (I kid you not!) and also someone on bones trying to join in with unaccompanied singing. Eventually you have to resort to something blunt, preferably verbal. Something like "How about you take it in turns with the rest of us, i.e. you play, then you don't!" At least they get the message.

Other alternatives include bringing a bugle - play only when the shakers get going but site next to them...


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 09:02 AM

Hand grenade ? overkill, anti personnel mine better.
Guilty Dave


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 09:20 AM

memo to self: leave the washboard at home in future.

RtS
(silence is golden)


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: HuwG
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 12:31 PM

Have just suffered from the attentions of somebody on a Bongo drum, while performing Duw, it's hard. Now for anyone recently landed from Mars who has not heard it, it is a slow lament for the death of the coal industry. How on earth anyone could think that a bongo accompaniment might spice it up a bit, is beyond me.

I managed to silence the percussionist with a ferocious glare after half a verse; but I was accosted afterwards by someone who asked me why I put such venom into the lyrics, "... roll to rest amidst the dust ...".

Forgive me, during the rest of that song I was thinking about the scrapyard about half a mile from the session, and its handy car crusher ...


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 01:09 PM

Don't break mah egg,
Mah shaky shaky egg.


Our session has acquired a fellow-traveller who unpacks a whole canteen of cutlery (or at least the spoon department) on the pub table. Fortunately he's a pleasant-mannered individual and exercises some restraint, but it's still a pretty appalling vista when you think what his weapons of mass disruption could do if they fell into the wrong hands.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: mike the knife
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 01:57 PM

Love the shaky "nanner"- a friend of mine had one & would give it to unsuspecting women to play along. Insert joke here.
The slinkys... My God... that's excellent... unless of course you're actually trying to play something.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 06:29 PM

The grand thing about an open session is that anyone--and everyone--can play along.
The horrible thing about an open session is that anyone--and everyone--can play along.

You culd always point to the egg-shaker and shout, "Take it!" and see what happens.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Susanl
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 04:03 PM

I have run into trouble with egg players, spoons players, conga players and harmonica players while playing gigs. The thing I find most frustrating is that these are all grand instruments when played well. But they're also magnets for people who don't want to practise or LISTEN and like to be heard in a room. I believe strongly in encouraging people to play. But I'm tired of dealing with people who don't actually WORK at it and then want to play along without listening. Music is a wonderful thing and everyone should be encouraged to participate. But participation means listening, learning and working on developing what you do. Not just showing up with whatever you've bought and expecting to play along.

I've also played with harmonica players, conga players, egg players and spoons players who play when they should and play well. Imagine how they feel about people who play those instruments badly.

I guess I can't comment about open sessions as I haven't had much experience with them. I suppose an open session should be just that. But wouldn't it be nice if people TRIED to be good at their instrument so they could contribute to the session rather than cluttering up someone else's music?

And to be fair, I'm a guitar player and the worst musicians I know for not listening and just making noise happen to be guitar players.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: alison
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 08:02 PM

I have several eggs, a lemon apple and shakey banana...... and a good sense of rhythm... well I must do ... I'm also a bodhran player..... lol....


admittedly the banana does get you funny looks and comments of "where do you put the batteries".... but the length causes enough delay to be really handy for some blues numbers!!..... *grin*

but I agree a bad rhythm player can be REALLY offputting when you're trying to sing of play.......

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Alice
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 08:14 PM

I've experienced sessions with similar disturbing intrusions.... an idea I just had is this: place a basket in the center (or at the door) with a big sign on it. "Place All Shaky Eggs, Triangles, Tambourines, Kazoos, Maracas and Bongos in Basket Until Session Has Ended"
The one "new" percussionist who has started showing up once in a while has his own contraption, an old vegatable grater with tambourine jingles attached to the side that he strikes with silverware. At least he has a sense of rhythm, but he plays it on every tune!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 30 Jan 03 - 11:18 PM

Hell of a Grand Good Posting....

Stanley Tools makes a darned good hammer...you can find their link here: http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?TYPE=CATEGORY&CATEGORY=BALL+PEIN+HAMMERS

Sincerely
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: HuwG
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:39 PM

I still prefer the thought of the car crusher. It allows you to widen the target area. (I am thinking of the scene in "Goldfinger", where James Bond surveys a three-foot cube of metal which had recently been a car containing a recalcitrant crime syndicate boss, and remarks, "Well, you did say he had a pressing engagement").

One bit of aversion therapy I might try, if I can find an accomplice, is to borrow someone's bongo drums, and then re-enact Stan Freberg's hilarious takeoff of "The Banana-boat Song".

One session I regularly attend sported a tuba player at one time. This is not an instrument to be used lightly to accompany anything; the usual noise it produces can be mistaken from far off as, "I am proceeding on the starboard tack in reduced visibility". On the other hand, I haven't heard anything quite so enlivening as the tubaist rattling through "Mickey Mouse's Son and Daughter" (Viv Stanshull).

We have also suffered from an asthmatic saxophonist (yes, the beat dragged a little).


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Letty
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 03:46 PM

I can't believe I missed this thread so far...
I love my egg! It's red and glossy, smooth and egg-shaped, and it rattles (but never loud and hopefully in time).
I'm trying to hatch it in my fiddle bag, no luck so far.


Letty (and egg)


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 05:45 PM

Did you not know Letty, shaky eggs are sterile.
Dave


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Beccy
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 05:48 PM

We had one harmonica player that showed up at EVERY cotton-pickin' gig and wanted to play between sets. The guy stank up the joint (literally AND figuratively.) We tried to be kind but finally had to eschew subtlety to get the guy to shove off.

Have you ever heard an EXTENDED version of The Hurricane (Dylan) done by someone who THINKS they know how to play the harmonica? Ergh. I'm gettin' hives just thinking about it again.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Beccy
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 05:49 PM

By the way- My Grandma is the World's GREATEST spoon player. I think it helps that she's such a great cook- the spoons just love her!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: mooman
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 08:52 PM

Dear Letty,

I hope you noticed I stood up against the hordes for something I deeply believe in...your egg!

Looking forward to Groningen!

Love

Richard (and Patricia who also has an egg...a green one, mine is blue!)


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Clean Supper
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 05:55 AM

It's excellent that this discussion has been introduced and I hope it is being followed by a large number of people with bad rhythm. I know I will listen carefully to my own rhythm now and see if I am one of them. (A similar string of rants about guitarists has me inspecting that contribution too.)

I do think, though, that all the suggestions involving 4x4 and other varied weapons haven't been helpful. It adds nothing practical to the discussion, the humour value expired during the first submission and it serves only to direct hate at people who are aware of their novice status or, even more so, uncertain and fearful that they may be unaccomplished and THEREFORE NOW APPARENTLY UNWELCOME.

To all who attend geuninely open sessions: note this is not the case.

To type in terms of what a problem the distracting player is makes a person feel that their very contribution is unwelcome. The few valuable submissions on this topic have, in my opinion, been the ones which described honestly the situation faced by a song leader or other performer when people join in poorly. They typed about their own experience of the situation, impressed on me effectively the distress it causes and refrained from projecting ideas, intentions or attitudes onto the perpetrators. I hope that the greatest possible number of these perpetrators will brush off the blustering and intolerance and pick up on the heartfelt message hidden away in the conversation.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Letty
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 01:54 PM

Mooman,
Yes, I noticed your kind remarks. Of course, my egg is very special!
Didn't know it would be sterile, banjomad, what a tragedy... I so wished for a glossy red chick.
Ah well.

Letty


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 04:26 AM

There now exists a cunning plan, so cunning that Mr Fox the professor of cunning at Huddersfield Metropolitan University would be amazed by it!! Has the countdown to to activiation started yet Banjomad?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 04:45 AM

We have an electric bass guitarist who tries to play along with singers even when they are trying to sing unacompanied ! I don't think he realises that people sometimes sing a capella by choice - I think he assumes that it's because they can't play an instrument. The other night I told him that one of our songs was "a base guitar free zone" and since then he won't join in with Linda and myself even when we tell him that he can (which of course upsets us greatly !).


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Mad Tom
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 05:00 AM

Swap the egg for a rainstick - then the rhythm issues will be less obvious.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 08:55 AM

The countdown has started.
ced2 I have cunning devices for sterilising most kind of eggs permanently. The dilemma that I am facing is the same one that faced the Big Endians and the Small Endians which as you know resulted in a war that only Lemuel Gulliver could sort out. Where is he when we need the bugger.
Deeply worried, Dave


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,toribw who should be working
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 02:53 PM

Susanl, beautifully said! The session I attend was created specifically to encourage people to play, but after seven years, there are still people who have not made any progress in their skill level at all. I try very hard to encourage new drum players, but it is painfully obvious that most of them don't even think of their drum in the six days between session night, let alone practice.

I'm not expecting perfection. I am far from perfect myself. I do, however, expect that drummers/shaky eggers/boners...uh, you know what I mean... show either restraint or improvement of some sort.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 06:17 AM

Yes, I understand the problem Dave; which end! Clear scientific analysis is required about the potential ease/difficulty of operation and about the effectiveness of the proposed action! There is also the question of the effectiveness of the delivery method in stage 2 of the operation, not to mention the adequacy of the necessary remedial measures that are required in stage 3. The world is beset by such grave concerns!
I once had a similar problem with an electric base player. I am afraid that there has to be a little suffereing but the problem was resolved by a gentle turning of the volume knob to near zero. Unfortunately that ment sitting near enough the amp to keep tweeking it! Do it steadily amd in small enough stages and they think that their amplifier has developed a fault as in "I can't understand this my guitar is getting quieter!" Alas the base player did not take the next logical step, viz giving the thing a good kick.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:01 AM

Alas another war is something we could well do without, the END problem has me in a state of bewilderment, I do not kno.. wha


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:04 AM

Mon bon ami, nous joueron le veto.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: mike the knife
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:11 PM

Once while hosting an Open Mike night an ill-advised "bass duo" happened (I can hear the "Oh $h*t" already). One of the bassists was fairly well restrained, knew his chops & was trying to create a little "air" for the other guy who, with a couple of bottles of Grolsch in him, decided that he had to play little snatches of every rock song he knew and then for no good reason tried to channel the spirit of Jaco Pastorius. Fast, loud & formless. The other guy put his instrument down and walked away. He ignored the subtle "lighter" ("you have 1 minute") signal, the hand across the throat motion (cut it out) and I finally had to approach him waving my arms like I was trying to clear livestock off of an airport runway.
Some get it, some don't.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 07:53 PM

ecky fecky, ced2 wot duz it all meen


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 05:50 AM

Try the Auto translate that is just above the reply to a thread bit! I would be interested to know how it re-translates.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 07:02 AM

The good friend I already new but the rest of it won't translate into English, is it Keighley speak ? The auto translate hasn't been updated for French to Keighlian.
Dave


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:01 AM

the second part startred as "we will olay the veto!"


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: hacksawbob
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:22 AM

Well I find my egg playing session frequently interupted by fiddle players, guitarists and singers all of whom seem to think that they know how the tempo should go. My advice to all you egg players is to hold 3 in each hand and shake them like you were ringing the bell on a firetruck, stand on the table if necessary until everyone comes 'round to your interpretation of the tempo, or they leave.... Actually that tends to happen quite a lot come to think of it.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Mugwump
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 01:37 PM

The Egg Police patrol our SE London sessions. They have a "stop and search" policy - if they find an egg or spoon on one's person, they are sentenced without trial to listen to hours of painful diddling.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 02:00 PM

Not half as painful as the sound of the distant omnipotent rattlesnake. How strange this thread should re-appear, just bracing myself for getting rattled at at tomorrows session.... Dave have you perfected the cure yet?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Mugwump
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 02:58 PM

Well the Egg & Spoon bashing appears elsewhere, I just chanced on this thread!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 05:33 AM

Yes there is an unsavoury element on the local music scene in SE London,, who seem to think that a folk session involves a small clique of long faced squeeze box & fiddle players playing the same monotonous diddly dee throughout the night, oblivious to any other people, who may have been under the impression that a folk session was a friendly get together of people from varied backgrounds regardless of musical ability.

Percussion instruments such as tambourine, castanets, bongoes, shaky eggs etc are a great way to involve non-musicians in a session. If sessions become exclusive gatherings of self appointed "tunesmiths" then they will - and desrvedly so - DIE!!!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,John Barden
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 05:49 AM

I host several sessions in Kent and regard them as 'open' sessions. Whilst I agree that sometimes the percussion section can be somewhat grating, everybody has to start somewhere, and paticipation is the way to attract people. I truly believe that sessions are not only for the musicians among us, but for the 'wannabees' and also importantly for the audience too. The biggest mistake we could all make is to drive people away. There was a young girl of about 12 who joined us with a bodhran in the sessions in the 'Bedford' at Sidmouth a few years back during the festival week. Her timing etc at first was awful, but with some coaching and consideration from us, and some not inconsiderable hard work on her part, she became quite proficient by the end of the week. Last year, 4 years on, she was joining in with guitar, whistle and of course bodhran, and was singing songs that she had written, and I for one hope that our patience at the beginning paid off and that another 'young folkie' had arrived.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,cath
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 07:31 AM

Folkman, I know who you are and I'm very disappointed in you, I always thought you were a nice guy. I'm one of the long faced fiddlers you mentioned. As for you Charles Atlas, I use my own name so you can easily find out who I am. Are you so gutless that you have to hide behind an alias? Charles Atlas certainly does not describe you at all.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 10:27 AM

It is extremely rude to join in uninvited with some form of percussion that fundamentally changes what a performer wanted to present. ESPECIALLY if the singer has a light voice & gets drowned out in the accompaniment. Sore point, ok?


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,Concepta McFadyen
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 05:45 PM

Monsignor Folkman ...

You seem to take great relish in your use of that word "DIE".

I don't like that.

It's mean and it's nasty.

And a bit creepy.

I suspect you may need expert help. And I would like to be caring and help you source a cure. But I'm not that sort of person. So I'll simply say please don't air your boring, nihilistic, misinformed, pugilistic, monotonous, petty, unforgivably crass bollocks anywhere a decent human being might read it. Save your writings for the place they belong ... a shithouse wall!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: ced2
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 07:12 AM

The problem is defined in two aspects. Firstly if there are more and noisier accompanying devices that drown out the lead instrument the tune is lost... if loud players of eggs, spoons, borans (and the like) play so loudly or are in such number that it becomes impossible to hear the tunes and/or the notes that are being played the session becomes somewhat pointless... One night I sat in a session with a semi-circle of 6 "drummers" to my right. I could not hear the fiddle player sat next to the concertina player immediately on my left. The fiddle player is not known as a retiring violet. There were 6 differet drumming timings, needless to say the only decent boran player had put his instrument away and gone into the other bar. This guy, now dead, could make a boran "talk" he said to me that there was no way that he could play with "that lot thumping away." I might also include in this group the guitar players who spend the evening thumping chords, usually as loud as they can, presumably in an attempt to get some recognition i.e. qantity out weighs quality, thus drowning out the lead intruments.
The second aspect is quite simply bloody awful timing. I have known players of lead instruments be reluctant to play when egg players etc have such bad timing that it prevents them, the lead instrument from keeping time or playing with the intonation that they would otherwise put into their music.
With all sympathy to those who say "we just want to join in" if you are so "off-putting" that lead instrument players decide to go elsewhere to play see how long the session will last without them.
I have yet to find a session that works on two eggs, a boran and a set of spoons.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Lynn W
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 12:10 PM

Well said ced2, I recognise your session there!
One point that has not been made on this thread so far (as far as I can remember) is that shakey eggs seem to fit with some types of music (e.g. Latin, "world" etc.) much better than others (e. g. Irish trad.) It has always seemed to me that this is because they are usually played with a sort of off-beat that does not often fit well with traditional Irish/Scottish dance music. Any other opinions on this? As a mediocre fiddle player I have often been glad of a decent bodhran playing along but can find it difficult to keep time against an egg. (Before I am accused of prejudice against eggs, I will add that I have wielded one myself on occasion!)


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,Danny Mackay
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 06:02 PM

Just to repeat (copy & paste!) what I said in the Duke of Edinburgh thread in case my message hasn't filtered to All Concerned:

Ok - so sorry. What about South London Orchestra of Bangers and Shakers, then, if you didn't like the first one. Or there's the Community of Untutored Non-Traditional Singers...need I go on? No, that WOULD be rude.

The reason Charlie hasn't been back is because he has been discredited, but does reappear as aliases, such as the 2 above, or why don't they come out with their real names, like I shamelessly do?

What IS rude, is for a whole gang of bodhran/bongo-drum-beaters (not players), egg shakers, kazoo-blowers and God knows what else, to traipse, uninvited, into a perfectly healthy session, and proceed to drown it out with a cacophony of unco-ordinated thumping and banging, or attempt to sing in keys which change line by line of the song - which is what happened to our own session not a hundred miles from the Duke of Edinburgh. It got so bad we had to get miked up to be heard over the din. This lasted for a year at least.

AND there's a big difference between thumpers and genuine learners of the music. Learners - or Improvers - have a genuine desire to make progress and will practice as much as they can (at least an hour per day, and do so self-appraisingly and intelligently. The thumper believes it's his right to stomp into a good session and bash away at whatever beat, or whatever 3 chords pleases him, regardless of the fact that he or she has ruined it for everyone else. Instruments played? you're joking - abused more like. Key of D? They couldn't even spell D.

So yer all moaning at me turning up to your rabble, me thinking (erroneously) that it was a session, and attempting to introduce a new concept, ie Music; but ye's seem to have short memories.

Let's all keep to our own territories in future. WE do the Other Place on Sunday nights. Please do NOT show yer faces. I'll probably do the Duke Wed's. Youse can have it Friday - but ye's hardly made the effort last Friday, but that's your problem. Youse can keep the Anchor.

I won't be posting on this thread again so ye's can slag me off to your hearts content, cos I won't look in. I've got more important things to do, ie, some practice on three instruments for starters.

A final thought - if, by some strange chance, the last 2 posts were from bona fide 'guests', they seem to be taking an unnatural interest in a little slime-pond in the back of beyond in SE London Suburbia. Don't they know World War 3 is brewing?

Best Wishes to all Bona Fide adherents of this WEB-Soap!
To the rest of ye - I will not stoop to asking you to crawl under any stone, but please, Get a Life!

Danny


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,Rag
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 07:20 AM

As ever, it's about consideration. Some folks aint got none. We've had sessions turn into free-for-alls because no-one will say shut up. Everyone is so careful not to put anyone off that the music degenerates into a complete mess. We've had singers all but drowned out by other singers who insist that their seventh harmony line just makes the song. We've had DADGAD drones and dischords over really good traditional tunes whilst two other guitarists are adding their jazz-funk thrashings nice and loud too. And the eggs of course.

Occasionally something has been said, then whoever actually said something and stopped the nuisance is attacked for being too hard, then after a little while, a few people voice the opinion that it was a good thing that the guy with football clacker has gone...

If you can get any kind of agreement about the session should be like, you'll still have trouble keeping it sensible because others insist on their rights - whatever they think they are - to do their own thing. Unless someone exerts some control, I fear that traditional sessions will just deteriorate and fall apart. In my experience, most sessions go through a cycle of being quite good for the first year, then being popular they attract increasing numbers of loud beginners, then the good players start giving it a miss, then a rump forms around a couple of players who just want to do their own thing anyway, then the pub gets fed up and throws them out.

Keeping a good session going means making sure the partipants put the music first and have some idea of how to respect what's going on:

1. If you can't hear the person who is leading the set, you're playing too loud.
2. The person who starts the set decides the key, the time, the number of repeats, the number of tunes, and when the set finishes so don't dick about with it and don't try to take it over.
3. If you are accompanying, make sure you're not clashing with other people and if you think you might be, stop! If you have a loud instrument, contemplate that it might not be appropriate for the session. If it irritates more than it helps, stop playing it - this is a social activity and you might just be being antisocial. You don't have a right to expect everyone to put up with you.
4. If a singer want to sing unaccompanied - shut up. If they indicate they are not keen on your guess at a harmony line, shut up! If you want to call the shots, sing your own songs and insist they observe the same courtesies.

Defend your session against the marauders.... Keep live music, music!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,John Barden
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 08:30 AM

Well done Rag.
I must agree with you. I hope this was the point I was trying to put across earlier. As I said the biggest mistake we could make is to drive people away, and this sometimes means making the 'offender' aware in as nice a way as possible that they need to get in time or quieten down. I've done it by saying 'It's your turn now' - the astonished look on faces can sometimes be a joy in itself.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Clean Supper
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:30 AM

Oy - guest Danny Mackay - since when was anyone, percussionist, instrumentalist, singer or audience, "invited" to a session. A session is for people to come and play. There are lots of "shoulds" to be said on this issue but I think it would be very helpful to the creation of enjoyable music if everyone allowed a bit more for all the other reasons than their own for playing music or being there.

I don't know the situation in the specific sessions under discussion so I won't try to tell anyone they're wrong about how bad it is for one group or another. I will say, though, that I've been to some great sessions that were so good BECAUSE the people there listened to the song or tune itself and were able to intuitively agree on whether it was a quiet song with a few singers and a lot of audience, a rocking set of reels where everyone has a bash and the piano accordian is in charge, a chorus song with room for a harmony or twelve if you can find one or a rare chance for the fiddliest tunesters to do their stuff with just one expert guitar or cello for some bass. That has happened and the mixture throughout the night makes each of the kinds of enjoyment more special and exquisite.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,allen woodpecker
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:58 AM

Oh, God in heaven - preserve us from assholes of all persuasions!
Put very simply.
1. A session is not somewhere to LEARN AN INSTRUMENT. It is somewhere to learn tunes, develop technique, and generally improve all aspects of musicianship. People should not try to join in with a session unless they are basically competent on their instrument.
2. If you walk into a pub with a session going on at which you are not one of the "faces" - you MUST either ask to join in, or at least make it so obvious that somone will invite you to join. You wouldn't dream of sitting down at a table full of people having a chat, and the same applies to people making music.
3. An egg is not an instrument, it is a noisy frippery. I've been known to play them on occasion, and even the bones as well (but only with pipers), but nobody really thinks that an egg is in itself a musical instrument, do they??!! Tolerance of morons with no music in their body should not be accepted. Having said that, it is my firm belief that all bodhran players should be able to play music on another instrument, as it means they understand the vibe better, and have more sympathy with the players. Maybe that sounds a bit fascist, but I consider myself to be a good bodhran player precisely because I can also play the tunes I'm accompanying.
Here endeth - a.w.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 08:47 AM

...I knew there was a reason why I never go to folk clubs!

RtS
(a moron with no music in his body- or his washboard!)


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 09:52 AM

GUEST allen woodpecker, I just refreshed the Folk Police thread for you. What a good thing there aren't too many like you in the sessions I go to!


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:05 AM

'Invited' is my euphemism for being paid.
Danny.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,allen woodpecker
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:18 AM

Dear JennyO. I'm not a completely humourless eejit and I am well versed in irony. I've read the Folk Police threads with interest and I really enjoy the mudcat in general. Don't think of me as a curmudgeonly troll, please.
That said, I put it to you, and in fact to any interested 'catter. In what other musical genre is mediocrity and banality encouraged? None. Pure and simple. Blues, Jazz, Classical - in none of these are people persuaded that mediocrity is good. In all other musical forms, people are encouraged to practice (maybe even, gulp, on their own) and strive to become the best that they can be, pay their dues, respect experience, and take advice from people who know more/have wider experience. Not so, "folk", it would seem. Loads of mudcat contributors seem to advocate absolute beginners going to play in pubs with people who actually know what they're doing. Like I say, sessions are for developing technique and repertoire, not for learning basics of any instrument. Absolute beginners should be encouraged to go to sessions, but WITHOUT INSTRUMENTS, listen to people, talk to people, and find their way in. If that sounds snobbish, well it's exactly what I did - paying your dues, learning your trade, gaining experience. From personal experience as a bodhran teacher for 3 years, I make a point of telling my pupils that they will learn more in the first year by watching and listening than they will from playing in sessions. The whole folk ethos of being "good enough" just sticks in my throat, frankly. I know people who have been playing for at least 5 years, and they still play the same tunes in the same way, and have not developed at all. And you think this sort of mediocrity-embracing chumminess should be accepted?? I practice damn hard on bodhran, whistle, flute, pipes, and with singing, because I want to be as good as I can be at each of them - I've never accepted "good enough" and nobody should. Music is not a game - enjoy playing, and the friends you make, but every individual should be 100% committed to their musicianship, and never settle for "good enough. As you're a member, and I'm just an occasional guest, perhaps you'd like to start a thread entitled
"Why does "folk music" accept mediocrity and unwillingness to strive for personal development?".
So yeah, perhaps I appear like PC Plod of the Folk Police - but what you have failed to do is convince me that you believe in playing well, as opposed to just messing about.
As an aside, I'm not sure how we got from eggs and bodhrans to a treatise on standards and attitudes in folk music. Never mind.
Respectfully yours, a.w.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:48 PM

GUEST allen woodpecker, I can see that you are genuine, and there are several points you make which are interesting. When I have the time, I would like to offer a different point of view. However, it is very late at night here in Oz, and I am about to sign off and go to bed before going away for the weekend - I thought I'd let you know just so that you don't think I was taking a pot-shot at you and running away. I'll post again in a couple of days.

Jenny


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Sabine
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 04:27 PM

Not very easy to some fresh air into this thread. Above that I'm sometimes struggling with my English, so please forgive any mistakes I might make :o)

A shaky egg can be fine. Sometimes. Not always. There are some tunes played in a very speedy or swinging way (like e.g. Lunasa is playing). There sometimes a shaky egg can be great if someone uses it who is able to find (and hold) the rhythm.
But people, unable for the finest strings of melody or rhythm who get into a session and hardly shaking this bloody thing without knowin what they are doing just to join - *argh* - I'd like to give them a kick.
Same like people sitting there and hammering two spoons against each other like two bricks, without any method or rhythm.... I can't understand it.

One can accompany a good song or tune with those things but if they are played like the other musicians don't exist I'm really getting angry.

Maybe I'm an ignorant but I also stopped songs whilst such a craze near me shaking his shakyegg (btw...it was An Mhaighdean Mhara). Sorry, but I can't hide my temper in those moments and that's the end of tolerance for me.

I'm also playing bodhran, guitar, mandoline and have a shaky egg. But I know when to shut up!
Some people don't understand and won't understand, no matter how polite you try to explain. They think they have a right to "play" in a session because it's open.

I always thought that those idiots are only here in Germany but from the reactions above I can see it's nearly everywhere. *sigh*


But, never mind, I'm still joining sessions and if it's becoming to bad I leave the table and get myself a good glas of Guinness *g*

Keep the music rolling

All the best

Sabine

CantaLibre - more than just folk


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 08:02 AM

.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 10:59 AM

I think it is illegal but several guests have taken to stealing my whale tambourine. He returns periodically in odd clothes and with odder companions. Once he was actually harpooned.
I got the message and now resort to Mexicali Rose to get attention.
SINS


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Bee
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 04:49 PM

Now, see, this is what happens to me on Mudcat. I enter a thread with a puzzling title, innocent lamb to the slaughter, and end up spending half an hour reading a five year old grumbling session regarding low-end percussion instruments. Why? No idea, just get sucked in because some of you turn a neat phrase, and here and there a gem droppeth (and other things too, but, well...)

There aren't too many shaky eggs hereabouts, but metal spoon players are rather frowned on by the fidlegentia.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,Cressida Ford
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 01:12 PM

Exactly what Bee said - what a fun thread! Rather enjoyed reading it; some of you are very witty and I did a lot of laughing!

But - thanks to the more curmudgeonly among you - I've decided I'm never taking my guitar to another session again. I always thought everyone was very tolerant. I always thought folk music was for the folk - the people in general. I always thought that I'd be welcome to play so long as it was evident how hard I was trying to be sympathetic to the music. I see now that's only true by and large, and I'm not being melodramatic here; I'm completely genuine when I say that I'm not taking my guitar out to a session ever again because as shy as I am I hate the thought that sitting somewhere in the corner there could well be a grumpy git wishing I'd eff off somewhere else.

So thanks, allen woodpecker, I hope you're pleased that you've rid the folk world of another lousy untutored noisemaker. Keep up the good work. x

Cressi


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 01:14 PM

Eggs and Sessions is the title of a monthly breakfasr meeting sponsored by the Portland Chamber of Commerce. This thread gets my attention every time.


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Melissa
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:22 PM

Inflamed Ego Disorder is easier to diagnose than it used to be, but so far, an effective treatment has not been discovered. Symptoms range from mild rudeness to outward cruelty and the most perplexing aspect of the disease is that the sufferer him/herself actually feels very little pain as the disease progresses.
IED is believed to be contagious, but scientists have been unable to isolate the method of transmission so far, which makes it difficult to create an anti-venom.
****
When I realized that I was going to spend more time than I truly enjoy with not-so-great players, I decided that I better figure out a way to benefit from it instead of being miserable.
If they don't play as well as me, it is MY JOB to adapt. If they aren't taking their instruments out more than once a week, I have grace enough to be glad that they take them out at least once a week. If music is their Social Activity and not their income source, they're perfectly justified in playing as infrequently as they choose.
If I had chosen to quit instead of deciding to adapt, the loosely bound group would have stopped gathering...and there would have been a handful of old men losing the chance to keep on playing. They're cranky, rude and sometimes don't play very well at all.
To have a chance to play, they need the security of a consistent guitar for back-up. I'm a snob, but I'm not cruel.

Reading some of the rant threads, I've learned that although I have been thinking that it would be nice to have a chance to play with a new group of musicians so I could play different songs and maybe snag some neat guitar tricks, I think I'm better off with my batches of poor musicians--and I'm absolutely certain that I'm more likely to keep improving my own skills close to home.
Playing with bad musicians has taught me a lot of things I wouldn't have learned with hotshots.
When I'm playing, I want to Play..not exclude (or be excluded.) I have opinions that are every bit as pointed and unbending as a lot of the things I've read lately, but the whole greedy/possessive/competitive thing creeps me out.
Music is like conversation..if you don't like the way it's going, you can change the direction, quietly endure, or step out.

It seems to me that it would be handy if there was a thread dedicated to warning us away from gatherings advertised as "open" when that's not what the session regulars intend.

I find the whole ego-stroking routine exceedingly unseemly.

I opened this thread because I've been thinking about "Green Eggs and Ham" lately..as it turns out, that's kind of what the topic is, I guess?

M


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: alison
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 09:35 PM

discovered something worse than eggs at a session a few weeks back

somone was playing the table with two coins - one in each hand - and for variation he moved onto two coins and an empty beer glass!!

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 02:18 AM

Ah, the old style 50p piece or a 'two bob bit' and a proper dimpled beer pot - the dimples added a bit more texture to the sound and the thickness of the coin did a lot to lessen the tinny noise. Once they shrank the 10p piece and switched to sleeve glasses, the art of beermugging was doomed.

Like the shaky egg, in the right place and in the right hands, it's a great addition, but unfortunately, so often it's in neither.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Eggs and Sessions
From: Declan
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 04:31 PM

We had a session in Sidmouth this year in which we were joined from the next table by an egg shaker. She played reasonably to time, not too loud and at worst didn't interfere with the session too much.

When we'd finished playing a guy at the bar said "that was a nice session you had there - except for that woman with the baby's F**kin' Rattle" - Interesting description.


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