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Folk Music On PBS

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Dharmabum 28 Nov 02 - 08:48 PM
Genie 29 Nov 02 - 11:41 AM
katlaughing 29 Nov 02 - 12:39 PM
johnross 29 Nov 02 - 01:51 PM
John Hardly 29 Nov 02 - 02:32 PM
GUEST,Guest, ReformedRocker 29 Nov 02 - 03:27 PM
Ballyholme 02 Dec 02 - 09:47 AM
wysiwyg 02 Dec 02 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,Geordie 02 Dec 02 - 10:55 AM
BuckMulligan 02 Dec 02 - 11:07 AM
Rick Fielding 02 Dec 02 - 11:13 AM
BuckMulligan 02 Dec 02 - 12:07 PM
Genie 02 Dec 02 - 12:17 PM
Don Firth 02 Dec 02 - 01:00 PM
beadie 02 Dec 02 - 01:41 PM
Dharmabum 02 Dec 02 - 01:44 PM
Ballyholme 02 Dec 02 - 02:03 PM
Bev and Jerry 02 Dec 02 - 02:16 PM
Genie 02 Dec 02 - 02:54 PM
Ballyholme 02 Dec 02 - 03:07 PM
wysiwyg 02 Dec 02 - 03:14 PM
artbrooks 02 Dec 02 - 03:28 PM
Francy 02 Dec 02 - 03:41 PM
Ron Olesko 02 Dec 02 - 04:11 PM
euclid 02 Dec 02 - 04:20 PM
Ron Olesko 02 Dec 02 - 04:51 PM
SINSULL 02 Dec 02 - 05:06 PM
GUEST 02 Dec 02 - 05:15 PM
Ron Olesko 02 Dec 02 - 05:31 PM
jimmyt 02 Dec 02 - 05:38 PM
Ron Olesko 02 Dec 02 - 05:54 PM
jimmyt 02 Dec 02 - 05:58 PM
BH 02 Dec 02 - 06:33 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 02 Dec 02 - 07:26 PM
Lane 02 Dec 02 - 09:30 PM
Rick Fielding 02 Dec 02 - 09:49 PM
Sandy McLean 02 Dec 02 - 09:57 PM
DonMeixner 02 Dec 02 - 10:31 PM
Duane D. 02 Dec 02 - 11:20 PM
Rick Fielding 02 Dec 02 - 11:36 PM
Rick Fielding 02 Dec 02 - 11:41 PM
Barry T 03 Dec 02 - 12:12 AM
jimmyt 03 Dec 02 - 09:10 AM
Jeri 03 Dec 02 - 09:21 AM
Barney the Fifer 03 Dec 02 - 09:23 AM
Stilly River Sage 03 Dec 02 - 10:22 AM
jimmyt 03 Dec 02 - 10:27 AM
Kim C 03 Dec 02 - 10:31 AM
Barney the Fifer 03 Dec 02 - 10:39 AM
Ron Olesko 03 Dec 02 - 10:52 AM
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Subject: Folk Music On PBS
From: Dharmabum
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 08:48 PM

American Soundtrack;This land is your land.
This special follows the evolution of modern folk music,from it's roots in bluegrass to San Francisco coffee houses to Greenwich village clubs.
Hosted by the Smothers Brothers & Judy Collins,it features performances by Glenn Yarborough,The Highwaymen,Roger McGuinn,John Sebastian & others.

This two hour show will air at various times & nights starting this Saturday night 11/30 here in the northeast (NJ).

Check pbs.org for other areas.

DB.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS / American Sountrack
From: Genie
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:41 AM

I caught a bit of this in Seattle last Saturday night (Nov. 23). Heard Glenn Yarborough and The Brothers Four, saw the Smothers Bros. and Judy Collins hosting. Would love to hear the whole thing. Have to watch for it on other PBS stations over the next few weeks.

Genie


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 12:39 PM

Thanks, we'll watch for it.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: johnross
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 01:51 PM

It's a fine program if your idea of folk music extends from The Kingston Trio to The Smothers Brothers. Feh.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 02:32 PM

Hey, maybe it's a fine program if your idea of folk music extends TO, The Kingston Trio to The Smothers Brothers.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: GUEST,Guest, ReformedRocker
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 03:27 PM

Hey, maybe it's a fine program if your idea of entertainment extends somewhere past the ghetto/porn mix that's polluting the airwaves these days. I'd rather hear the Smothers Brothers than all this commercially-produced illiteracy set to a drum machine.


deep breath... calming down now.

RR


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Ballyholme
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:47 AM

Saw the program several times over the weekend. Seems to me the criterion for inclusion was based upon artists who had chart success in the 50s/60s. I gotta say it didn't do a thing for me but it must have been a great help to the clothing industry - all those black shirts!


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:56 AM

Well, as was first posted, This special follows the evolution of modern folk music, from it's roots in bluegrass to San Francisco coffee houses to Greenwich village clubs..

Did you think they were going to resolve the "What is Folk" issue in one short show and give exhaustive examples going back to whenever YOU date its inception?

DB posts what's coming on TV, from time to time, and it's up to y'all if you tune in or not.

Thanks, DB.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 10:55 AM

Saw that, thought it was dreadful and wondered what Judy Collins was doing there ? I do believe that the artists present did make a significant contributionto commercial folk during the sixties but they have not contributed anything since. The whole thing seemed badly dated, poorly performed and offered nothing but the most cyncical aspects of nostalgia. Sorry folks, I hated it.
   In fact I think PBS is a mere shadow of it's former self..sort of like the CBC.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 11:07 AM

It would perhaps more properly have been called something like "A Survey of What the Big Name Record Labels Were Putting out as Folk Music During The Great Folk Scare." Of course it had little (but not nothing) to do with "folk" music of the "rit-ti-doodle-fol-de-ro" school of purism. I'm sure some of the stuff sung by the slick groups of the 50s and early 60s had Child numbers. But like it/them or not, these groups had enormous influence on the immediately-pre-Hippie generation, as well as on their kid siblings who turned into the Hippies. Judy Collins was there because she was a huge part of that whole thing. It was a little sad to see so many groups with only one (or even fewer) "original" name/voice left. Overall, the whole endeavor was a little seedy, except for The Limeliters' (only Hassilev left) very witty "Generic Uptempo Folk Song" which is worthy of Bob Gibson. I loved the show. Guilty pleasure, nostalgia, sure, whatever, but we do like things that at least remind us of happy times & places in our lives, don't we? It was folks music because we high school and college kids of the time were folk, and by damn, we sang it.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 11:13 AM

Thanks Dharmabum.

Wheww, wish I could say otherwise, but I thought it was simply abysmal. I had a lot of reservations about PBS's bringing the "British Invasion" folks back, and did a Mudcat thread on it, but my gosh it was wonderful compared to this. At least the Smothers Brothers look like they've actually been WORKING over the last few years, and still have their old skills. Much of it felt really painful to watch. Like the others in the series (The Doo wap Black Bands seemed to have survived the ravages of time the best) the constant focusing on the audience fascinated me. All folks of a certain age happily singing along. Glad they were having fun, but I found it sad.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 12:07 PM

Agree about the excessive focus on the audience, but then, that's the point of the shows PBS has been doing for years now at pledge time (PP&M, DooWop, etc.) - trying to get the old farts at home (me, e.g.) to identify with the old farts in the hall, and shell out so the network can keep bringing us our youth back, or at least reminding us of it. Y'know, I'm not altogether sure any of those groups were any better in 1962 than they are now. Maybe we were a lot less sophisticated and discerning then - I know I was certainly more forgiving and enthusiastic about music that wasn't "Doggie in the Window" and Perry Como.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Genie
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 12:17 PM

Ballyholme, Yeah, one criterion for inclusion was ...chart success in the 50s/60s. But, as Geordie said, most of them have not contributed anything since. (Are
the Brothers Four and the Highwaymen still working as musicians?)   Collins and the Smotherses were there as much as emcees as they were performers.

Badly dated, poorly performed and offered nothing but the most cyncical aspects of nostalgia, yes. The emcees even admitted that they couldn't get some of the
bigger names like Baez to appear on the show. (Where were PP&M, Dylan, Paxton, Ian & Sylvia [or just Ian Tyson], Joni Mitchell, etc? As Rick hinted, it almost
seemed like most of the performers who can still draw an audience commercially declined to do the show. Many of them, we were told repeatedly, are on
the CD set that you get for a big donation.) But if this kind of show what brings in pledges from the great masses who loved the KT and tuned out "folk music" as
soon as the Beatles came on the scene, fine. PBS needs viewer support. It still beats what's on most network and cable shows.

I enjoyed watching it, but the only thing I taped was that Limelighters song, and I'm saving my pledge for another show, another time. I already have pretty much
all the music from this show in my collection of tapes and records.

Genie


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 01:00 PM

Nostalgia trip for Sixties kids. Kinda fun to hear some of that stuff again, but let's face it. It was folk-lite.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: beadie
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 01:41 PM

For what its worth, Judy Collins IS still a working artist, playing dates refularly through the year. I saw her a year or so ago at the Lake Superior Bigtop Chautauqua. Great show, . . . just her, her guitar and a pianist.

Of course, she retains her political activism, as well. After the show, she slipped downstate to visit her brother who was hosting a political fundraiser for some local liberal candidates for statewide office.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Dharmabum
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 01:44 PM

I too was not very impressed.
I thought Glenn Yarborough was just plain sad.
I'd hoped McGuinn would add some redemption to an otherwise wasted 2 hours,but his set mainly consisted of Byrds radio hits.
Sorry PBS,You aint gettin' a nickel outta me for this one.

Nostalgia aint what it used to be.


       DB.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Ballyholme
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 02:03 PM

WYSIWYG: "Did you think they were going to resolve the "What is Folk" issue in one short show and give exhaustive examples going back to whenever YOU date its inception?"

What makes you think I expected that? When these guys were in the charts, I was growing up in Ireland, so when I saw the show advertised, I was intrigued to see what 50s and 60s American "commercial" folk groups were like. A few of them did have hits in Europe (Kingston Trio, Highway Men)and probably did influence a number of musicians on our side of the pond. As Don Firth said, it was folk-lite. Pretty banal, inoffensive stuff that, as I said, didn't do anything for me. Simply my opinion.

Give me Van Ron, Ochs, Seeger, Proffit, Watson, Hurt, any day of the week.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 02:16 PM

We didn't care for the program either. But, this was the music we liked in high school and college and it was the stuff that turned us on to folk music. How else would a couple of kids from Cleveland, Ohio, the rock and roll capital of the galaxy, ever get exposed to folk music?

Bev and Jerry


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Genie
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 02:54 PM

Ballyholme, how could you tape a live show with Ochs and Van Ronk?


beadie, yes, Judy Collins IS still a working artist, and so, I think, are the Smothers Brothers (occasionally). Tommy, Dicky, and Judy were, IMO, the headliners of the show. The Kingston Trio and The Limeliters, too, I think, are still touring (though each group has only one original member, and I'm not sure Bob Shane tours with the KT much any more).

Just think: Around 2045, there'll be a nostalgia Rap Show featuring old fogies such as Eminem, P. Diddy, Culio, etc.! Or how about a "boy band" reunion, with special guest Britney Spears still showing her navel (above the hip-hugger Depends)!


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Ballyholme
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:07 PM

Genie,

I imagine there'd still be a lot more life in Ochs, Van Ronk, etc (you do know who Proffit and Hurt are, don't you) than in some of the people I saw on Saturday's show. McGuinn, as ever, was excellent. But then again, that's just my opinion.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:14 PM

No, I just think (because I am sick and crabby today) that pissing and moaning about it HERE is kinda silly.... write PBS!

In other words, I am pissing and moaning about pissing and moaning! *G*

I guess folkies are, by nature, alert to the negative so a protest can be written and/organized.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:28 PM

Regretably, the Albuquerque PBS station did not give me an opportunity to see the show and be able to express my opinion on it.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Francy
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:41 PM

I emailed PBS with my feeling...so I have to express them here also......It was absoluted ""awful". They should be indicted for their use of the words Folk Music.....Yukkkkkkkkkkkk
                Frank of Tolledo


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 04:11 PM

Don't blame PBS - blame all those people who bought the albums way back when.   If they didn't sell back then, there wouldn't have been a special today.

Frankly I enjoy some of the music of that commercial style.   While I enjoy a well cooked meal, a bag of cheese doodles sometimes is comfort food. This commercial pap is also comforting in its own way.

I do fault the producers of PBS for making it appear that the groups they presented represented the pinnacle of the folk boom. Of course the Kingston Trio and Limeliters were influential in their way, but the rest of the performers seemed to be filler.   I was shocked that Roger McGuinn participated.

The special was crap and I don't recommend it to anyone who loves folk music, but it was still better than watching "Wild On" on the E! channel. Well, maybe not.

Ron


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: euclid
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 04:20 PM

How does one write folk music? It seems sort of like writing a tradition.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 04:51 PM

Someone has to write them!

Yes, I know all about the folk process and the endless stream of changes that occur - I'm just teasing!   

You are right Euclid, however as we all know the term "folk music" has evolved to encompass the tradition of the songwriters.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:06 PM

My TV didn't pick up the PBS station, so I missed it. But it sounds as if it was exactly what I expected. Haven't any of you seen the Doo Op Bands PBS shows? Painfully dated right down to the matching pink silk suits and performed - well, by a bunch of out of shape old fogies. But the audience who paid (I guess) to see it, loved it.

I also expect I would have enjoyed seeing and hearing the Top Ten Commercial Folkies of the 60s. Before "Tom Dooley" by the Kingston Trio, my folk music was limited to family sings and some Burl Ives' recordings, and a pretty mediocre LP of Civil War songs. There was more out there. WOW! I, like a bunch of other 'Catters, am a product of the folk scare. I have come to terms with it and moved on.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:15 PM

Ron, I think it's okay to blame PBS, and to do it where they can hear it. They, like the networks, have a small insular clutch of people selecting programs to produce, fund, or purchase. Sometimes I think their policy is to buy programming from close personal friends and/or Ken Burns, everyone else is outside the fence.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:31 PM

Guest,

I realize that. You missed my point. I was trying to say that this "special" would not have been produced if it wasn't for the fact that back in the early 1960's there were large numbers of records sold for this type of "folk" music. Sure we can blame PBS for airing it, but I was trying to say that we should also fault those who bought it, if we are looking to blame. Personally I think everyone is entitled to get pleasure from whatever they want.

Many people first discovered folk music through these artists and they should receive credit for that.   However the special did not exactly give an accurate portrait of the time or the music.

You are 100% correct in your opinion of PBS. I know a number of former PBS producers who can't find work because the network has become so insular and panders to a commercial audience.

Ron


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:38 PM

I also saw the show and was, I admit, a bit disappointed, as I also am when I have seen the old Do-woppers, a little sad, however, I think we need to keep in mind, that , Damn, people, these folks in both shows are getting a little old. WHat do you want to do with them, take them out and shoot them just because they happen to be getting a little long in the tooth? Oh yes, perhaps this music wasn't exactly "protesty enough" to suit some of you, perhaps some of these folks haven't "made any contributions"since the 60's, but they did make them then, and I for one, enjoy that type of music, as I do many many other types. If I had a chance to go hear a nostalgia group that I had liked back in the 60's I would probably do it, but I would also go hear a young singer-songwriter. Would I be a little disappointed at the nostalgia group? maybe, but hey, not every singer songwriter happens to be setting the woods on fire either. I suspect that the reason they put these shows on is that people...maybe not as "sophisticated musically"as you, but people, like to watch them. I imagine most folks are a little disappointed deep down, but they are still the ones who did the music in 1962 or whenever, and I think a lot of folks are willing to cut them a break and say, hey, he's not as young as he used to be. I play this music all the time to lots of audiences who are tickled to death to hear old weary old songs like Greenback Dollar and Tom Dooley. LOTS of folks (is it OK if I use the word folk here?) enjoyed Kingston Trio, Limeliters, Peter Paul and Mary. It was deep enough for them, although maybe a little too "commercial" for the folk masses, it beat Living Strings in 1964.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:54 PM

Jimmyt,

I too listen, and play on my radio show, SOME of the artists that appeared on the show. I have a deep respect for the Kingston Trio and I think that the Limeliters have ALWAYS been good. The Limeliters continue to this day recording decent music.

I don't fault anyone for singing folk songs and getting others to sing. That should be applauded, even if their motives were commercial.   

I don't think anyone is faulting the program for showing aging performers. The problem that I had with the show is that they tried to pass it off as the "best" of what folk music had to offer during the folk revival.   That simply isn't the case. They presented a slice of a very commercial sound of folk music of the day. Where were the Greenbriar Boys? the New Lost City Ramblers? Pete Seeger? Joan Baez? any one of dozens of folksingers that represented folk music during the 1960s?

The fault we had is that the image they tried to present was not 100%accurate.

Ron


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:58 PM

Well, maybe they just happened to get the folks that were willing to come on? I agree that this was disappointing, however, I think there is a tone of "elitism" about any group that had commercial success that I find annoying. Sorry, just had to vent. I agree with you, though Ron


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: BH
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 06:33 PM

For what it is worth---I thought the show was pure "crap".

That said, I have to admit that some of those groups were what turned people---me included-- on to "folk" music---though, as it turns out they were really '5os and '60s commercial music that sold---and sold because of one of the groups that could not be represented---The Weavers. In hindsight--they were also commercial but with a difference once they left the Gordon Jenkins aegis.   Now I am getting too pedantic.

As to PBS. It is the annual---or it seems the almost daily shell game they play.   The Fund Raiser---present what they perceive the people want---then do their real quality programming in non fundraising times. Perhaps for truth in Advtsg they should do Nova, Frontline,etc; specials and pitch for that.

As to the filmed Audience: A standing ovation for every performer who graced the stage.   Perhaps they might have given one for the Brothers Four's bad toupees. That was pathetic.

I must say I pledged nada.   For my local NPR station I do---at least their fundraising is an honest presentation of what they do---as is the station I am affiliated with---like it or not this is what we do--that is our statement. You pledge for what you get.

And on radio you cannot see the bad wigs either.

PBS, sadly, wants to be everything to everyone. Does not work.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:26 PM

Jimmyt - it is good to vent!   I agree with you about elitism. Your point about judging the performers on appearance was well put. It is not fair to make easy jokes about their wrinkles and toupees. That is not right. Take the music for what it was.   While I would not want a steady diet of it, some of it can be fun. It is chewing gum, but there is nothing wrong with that.

This has been said elsewhere, but some of these groups were the first "boy bands". Perhaps N'Sync owes more to them!

It's odd when you think about it. Back then groups that went "commercial" were frowned upon.   Today's generation of singer-songwriters seem bent on finding that commercial success. The only difference is today's crop of "folk" artists are not compromising their art.   I'm speaking in general, there are exceptions of course.

Ron


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Lane
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:30 PM

Well... I missed the show and will see it on the repeat airing on Wednesday. But this thread has pretty much killed my enthusiasm, thanks. Jeez.... Mudcat has changed from the postive group that I used to see.... Hey, we've all played and listened to engough music to know that there is some we enjoy listening to and other that we don't, but its the vast variety of music and people playing music, some wonderful, some horrid and others in the middle... that makes it folk music. Heck, I've made a few people cringe as I played around the campfire as I learned - but they always said something nice, or said nothing at all...

Eliteists? Maybe its not PBS or the musicians from the 60s and 70s that I still happen to respect.... maybe the elitists are a little closer to home.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:49 PM

Wow, this IS a negative thread ain't it? You'd think that at least fifty percent of the Mudcatters would say "Hey, give 'em a break, they did their best, I'd like to see YOU do better job yadda yadda yadda....."

But sometimes a project is simply So cynically done, and So poorly sung, and so blatantly commercial that almost ALL folks see through it. I love PBS (and CBC in Canada) but I doubt they'll get the donations they expected from this show.

Look I don't think all poetry has to be Shakespeare, but watching the Smothers Brothers WHO DO KNOW BETTER, introducing Barry McGuire (still) singing "Eve of Destruction" as if it were ever important, and not simply 'dreck' of the highest order....well, I found that sad.

If only the brothers had mentioned their fight to get Pete and "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy" on the tube.....and even if....."my heart be still"...Roger McGuinn had sung it on this program. Just imagine, a song that was completely relevant in the sixties AND currently.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Sandy McLean
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:57 PM

I have not seen the show in question so my comments are on past PBS folk legend / fundraising specials.
There was one on Woody done quite some time ago that I have on tape and often watch. It has Arlo discussing his father with some of Woody's friends such as Pete , Rambling Jack Elliot , Sonny Terry etc.
They would then jam with Arlo on some of Woody's songs. There were also later singers whom Woody influenced such as Joan Baez , Judy Collins, and Emmylou.
There was an excellent one on The Weavers , and another on Leadbelly.
They were great shows and perhaps they will be repeated some day.
My only complaint is that they only air this stuff when they are fundraising.
                   Slainte,
                      Sandy


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: DonMeixner
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 10:31 PM

Nice to hear Alex Hasilev and his back up band. The Brothers Four were still OK. Some was a nice trip down memory lane. Mostly it was pretty lame. I wanted more and better. Oh well.

Don


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Duane D.
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 11:20 PM

I don't know how this program was presented in your respective localities, but it was used as a fundraising attempt here on channel 21 (cable)WLIW (Long Island, NY)PBS. I found it, at best, to be reminiscent of what I remember of the Hootenanny TV show I watched religiously as a kid. This was my introduction to what was considered (commercial)folk music of that era, before I learned better. What made this program experience worse, were the people who were trying to raise pledges during the long breaks, who didn't know their folk music from a hole in the ground. And, if you pledged at the $250 level, you would receive the 10 cd boxed set of the selections from the show plus scores of rock hits they had the audacity to call folk music. BTW, the producer of the boxed set was some young guy in his twenties, who obviously wasn't even alive when this music was new, and doesn't know any better. I'm disappointed with PBS's ignorance(or naivete).


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 11:36 PM

Jeez, DUANE! ONCE AGAIN you hit a home run! All the things that I tried to skip around a bit, you just came out and said. Bravo. And once again, you nailed a couple of "between the lines" things about that show that are SO accurate.

You don't say much, but yer a smart guy!

Rick


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 11:41 PM

Rick, Flaming Himself!!

Hey Fielding, do youse 'tink dat Duane's so smart 'cuz he agrees wit youse?

Ya....probably. But at least he REMEMBERS the old 'Hoot'nanny' Show. Remember how many great folk performers refused to go on 'cause they wouldn't let Pete Seeger on'? The Producer said "P.S. couldn't Hold an Audience!!!"

Cheers


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Barry T
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 12:12 AM

I agree with Don Meixner... that it was a nice trip down memory lane. For a few moments I was in my university youth again, filled with fond memories of good friends and great times triggered by specific songs. I didn't care particularly if it was official folk or commercial folk or any-other-adjective folk. It was music that I liked back then and still do. That's all that counts to me.

I remembered the lyrics and could sing along with most of them from start to finish. After 30 years, that says something about those songs. See if that happens with today's pop drivel!

Quality of performance? Probably a C+ at best... but I still watched it!


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:10 AM

Barry T, You managed to casule what my feelings about this were without getting on the whining soapbox I did (I am sorry, I think I was retaining water yesterday) I think it was a little like a situation a couple weeks ago, I was at Epcot with my grandchildren, and in the France part, there was one of those crepe stands you find on every corner in Paris. Well, I thought about how great they were in Paris, stepped up and ordered a chocolate crepe, and it was nothing like the original ones I have eaten in Paris. A great disappointment. OK I guess I am rambling again. time to get back on my medicine. Sorry if I overreacted in yesterday's post. Jim


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:21 AM

Stuff that airs on TV to the usual audiences is aimed at getting the biggest bang for the buck...er, the biggest buck for the bang, in this case. They go for the most popular, not necessarily the best (in our opinions) music or even the truth. Music isn't bad just because it's popular, but a show aimed at the widest audience is probably not going to include the obscure (to most) gems we love. Taking risks isn't good for finances.

As for our history of being nice to shows that include folk or folk-like music - remember discussions of 'Riverdance'? 'Brother Where Art the Kossoy Sisters on the CD'? Ken Burns' Jazz series? Ow...


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Barney the Fifer
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:23 AM

The show was an embarrasment. Watching a bunch of 60+ year olds who didn't appear to have a learned a new song in 35-45 years.

Glenn Yarborough lip-synching "Baby The Rain Must Fall" was the worst. Did he think we wouldn't notice the missing orchestra and choir of backupo singers?

Now I know that Judy Collins and Roger McGuinn have progressed past what they showed on the show, but you sure couldn't tell.

It was a poorly done appeal to rich and aging pre-boomers and early-boomers.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:22 AM

Trouble is that the "fans" won't tolerate new songs from these folks--they're all stuck in a time warp. Remember Rick Nelson's song "Garden Party?" There have been others making similar observations.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:27 AM

Barney, What is the "rich and aging" reference supposed to mean? Are we to infer that "rich people have no musical taste? or that they in fact make donations to PBS? or maybe aging pre-boomers and early boomers make donations? or they also have poor musical taste? Sorry, but again, I get the feeling that there is an implied thought that if you are wealthy, you have substandard musical tastes.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:31 AM

Mister and I caught part of it while we were waiting on another show to start. We both agreed that some of what was shown, was not what he & I consider to be "folk" music. However, I have secretly had a crush on Tommy Smothers since I was a little kid, and I loved seeing them. (chirp chirp)

We enjoyed seeing Roger McGuinn, even if he did play old Byrds hits.

I have to say that our PBS affiliate in Nashville has a pretty diverse program slate. There's something for everyone. Nashville Public Television separated from government funding a couple of years ago, and is now entirely funded by the community.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Barney the Fifer
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:39 AM

Jimmyt,

When I said it was a poorly done appeal to rich and aging pre-boomers and early-boomers, I was referring to the fact that it was a fund raising special aimed at a specific demographic group who are now in their fifties and sixties. I used the word rich becuase the special was so devoid of artistic merit that it's usefullness was only in its appeal to specific people with money to throw at PBS in gratitude.

I do not believe that anyone's financial status predetermines their musical taste. In fact, I'd bet that most rich people are not big fans of the Brothers Four.

And Stilly River Sage, I disagree that fans don't let the artists progress. I've seen Peter, Paul and Mary many times and they always include a lot of new songs in their concerts.


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Subject: RE: Folk Music On PBS
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:52 AM

Hold on, there is a lot of generalization going on here.

First of all, you saw an EDITED broadcast. A producer (apparently one with little knowledge of folk music) decided what "highlights" to present.   The producer's purpose was to put together a show that might catch the interest of a viewer, not necessarily the sages of folk music that dwell here at Mudcat. The second purpose was to raise money for PBS. The producer decided those goals could be accomplished by having Glenn Yarbourgh sing his hit (was he lip syncing? I'm not positive.)   While I think the show gave the wrong impression of the folk revival, I do understand what the producer and PBS was trying to accomplish.   I was not inspired to donate after watching this show.

To say that these groups haven't done a new song in 30+ years is not correct. I have played recent recordings from the Limeliters.   They do have an audience that enjoys their music and yes, they do have to cater to that. You won't see the Limeliters headling Falcon Ridge but they will continue to perform around the country.

Roger McGuinn is writing great songs and giving outstanding performances. If any of you saw him at the Philadelphia Folk Festival you know that he isn't the lounge act that this TV special perceived these artists to be.

Be thankful that TV's still have dials - or buttons.

Ron


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