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Help: How did John the Baptist die??

GUEST,Dave 29 Sep 02 - 02:08 PM
Sorcha 29 Sep 02 - 02:18 PM
songs2play 29 Sep 02 - 02:19 PM
mack/misophist 29 Sep 02 - 02:19 PM
GUEST,Dave 29 Sep 02 - 02:37 PM
JohnInKansas 29 Sep 02 - 02:40 PM
alanabit 29 Sep 02 - 02:42 PM
JohnInKansas 29 Sep 02 - 02:46 PM
Don Firth 29 Sep 02 - 03:00 PM
Nigel Parsons 29 Sep 02 - 04:19 PM
Liz the Squeak 29 Sep 02 - 04:46 PM
mousethief 29 Sep 02 - 05:16 PM
GUEST 29 Sep 02 - 05:46 PM
Little Hawk 29 Sep 02 - 06:25 PM
Bill D 29 Sep 02 - 07:29 PM
Amos 29 Sep 02 - 09:17 PM
SINSULL 29 Sep 02 - 09:33 PM
Amos 29 Sep 02 - 10:01 PM
Hrothgar 30 Sep 02 - 04:28 AM
Dave Bryant 30 Sep 02 - 05:38 AM
Don Firth 30 Sep 02 - 02:28 PM
beadie 30 Sep 02 - 04:44 PM
catspaw49 30 Sep 02 - 05:32 PM
Jim Dixon 30 Sep 02 - 05:39 PM
Glade 30 Sep 02 - 06:28 PM
Joe Offer 30 Sep 02 - 06:52 PM
Dave Bryant 01 Oct 02 - 04:49 AM
beadie 01 Oct 02 - 09:26 AM
beadie 01 Oct 02 - 09:48 AM
EBarnacle1 01 Oct 02 - 02:52 PM
BH 01 Oct 02 - 06:13 PM
Jon W. 01 Oct 02 - 06:21 PM
Don Firth 01 Oct 02 - 06:22 PM
Steve Parkes 02 Oct 02 - 12:26 PM
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Subject: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 02:08 PM

There's got to be a bible-thumper out there somewhere who can tell me how/when John the Baptist died. I'm completely clueless. I'm trying to help my son with a school report, and I'm about to look stupid. Somebody please throw me a bone.


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 02:18 PM

John the Baptist. Scroll to the bottom if you only want his death.......


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: songs2play
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 02:19 PM

Be-headed.

See

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintj02.htm


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: mack/misophist
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 02:19 PM

His head was cut off as a favor to Salome. Don't have to be a bible thumper to know that. A pretty good play and a great piece of music about it. (Dance of the Seven Veils)


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 02:37 PM

Thanks guys. The Mudcatters have come through for me again. You guys are better than britannica. Cheers


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 02:40 PM

A "popular" subject for classical artists.

Click on the first picture at ARC for enlargement.

Same artist (Carravagio) noted for his "Salome with the Head of John the Baptist."

Many others.

John


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 02:42 PM

There is an Oscar Wilde play on the subject "Salome´", which he wrote in French. I read it in translation and thought it was interesting.


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 02:46 PM

The 3d painting on page 3 of the Carravagio exhibit at ARC (clicky above) is the more famous:

Salome with the Head of St. John the Baptist c.1607
Oil on canvas
35.63 x 65.75 inches / 90.5 x 167 cm
National Gallery, London, England

John


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 03:00 PM

Salome by Richard Strauss. A whole opera about it. "The Dance of the Seven Veils" is from the opera. Salome comes on to John the Baptist who is in Herod's dungeon. John is indifferent to her and it pisses her off. At the same time, her mother, Herdias, hates John's guts. When at a party, Herod tells Salome that if she will dance for him, he'll give her anything she wants. Herodias puts a word in Salome's ear, so she dances (7 veils--pretty steamy stuff). Herod then asks her what she wants. She says, "The head of John the Baptist on a platter." Herod is horrified, but she holds him to his promise. Grim opera, but some pretty terrific music.

Check Sorcha's link. The story in detail.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 04:19 PM

How did he die?

Circulation failure!

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 04:46 PM

Aubrey Beardsley did some wicked (in all senses of the word) illustrations for Oscar Wilde.... one of his most popular pieces... the originals had to be heavily edited before publication because they were just too TOO rude... Lots of hidden and not so hidden phalluses.... Herod and the Woman in the Moon are portraits of Oscar.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: mousethief
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 05:16 PM

John the Evangelist, on the other hand, died of old age.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 05:46 PM

Matthew 14:10


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 06:25 PM

He lost his head.

And here was I, thinking he'd been trampled to death by drunken camel jockeys out on a toot...

Thank God for the Mudcat.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 07:29 PM

well, in an early thread, Max agreed it was fun playing God, I seem to remember...so thanking God for Mudcat is redundant


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 09:17 PM

Now, this is what old John the Baptist said,
Yes this is what Mister John the Baptist said.
Well, here's what John the Baptist said,
It was just before he lost his head,
He said "Come on, boys,
Give me those separation blues!"


Separtion Blues

Who needs opera when ya got folk music?

Regards,

A


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 09:33 PM

Remember "Citizen Kane"? He had his "opera singer" wife debut in "Salome". A disaster. More salami than Salome.


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 10:01 PM

More salami than Salome.

Ooooh Sinsull!! Wotta line!!! LOL!!! Dunno whether to kiss you or incinerate you!!   ROTFLMAO!

A


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Hrothgar
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 04:28 AM

Anoxia. Same as everybody who dies.


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 05:38 AM

I always thought that it would have been more fitting for him to have drowned !

I heard a lovely story about a production of the opera Salome in which the guy singing J.T.B. was a terrible hypochondriac who used to stick medicated cotton wool in his ears and nostrils to prenent him getting any infections. One night the "props" head which was presented to Salome had been similarly treated by some wit. The singer who was playing Salome (and who disliked the J.T.B. siger) collapsed in paroxysms of laughter and they had to bring the curtain down.


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 02:28 PM

Matthew 14:3-11

For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife. For John said unto him, "It is not lawful for thee to have her." And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.

But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod. Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask. And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, "Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger." And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her. And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison. And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: beadie
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 04:44 PM

A little help here, . . . . . .

I'm trying to remember the actor who played Herod in the 1950's movie "Salome." I believe it was either Ustinov or Laughton, but I may have that awry.

At any rate, the title role was given to Ava Gardner who played this middle-eastern princess of Hebrew stock as a remarkably fair-skinned, blue-eyed blonde . . . . imagine that!


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 05:32 PM

Amos forgot to attribute "Separation Blues" to Patrick Sky.

Funny thing, I would have figured he drowned........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 05:39 PM

I once played "Second Soldier," I think it was, in a community theater production of Oscar Wilde's "Salome." Most memorable lines:

"The Tetrarch has a somber look."
"Yes, he has a somber look."

Probably the most tedious play I've ever been in. I had to stand in the background through the whole dang thing and only had a few lines. Our Salome did disrobe to the waist during her dance of the seven veils, but she only did that during the final dress rehearsals and performances, and for those, they didn't let me wear my glasses.


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Glade
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 06:28 PM

It was a case of mistaken identity. Herodias told Salome to ask for the head of John the Methodist and like all blue-eyed blonde Middle Eastern dancing princesses, she got mixed up.


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 06:52 PM

I feel compelled to make an important theological point. Salome was played by Rita Hayworth, the most beautiful woman that ever lived. Ava Gardner was pretty, but nobody would bother beheading John the Baptist for her sake.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 04:49 AM

BTW The Herod who beheaded JTB was a different one from the one who ordered "All children young to slay".


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: beadie
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 09:26 AM

To Mr. Offer:


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: beadie
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 09:48 AM

OOPS!

To Mr. Offer:

No intent to disparage the memory of Ms. Hayworth, I assure you. It was simply a matter of my aging (and occasionally failing) capacity for remembering names, dates, things of that sort.

(Ms. Gardner wasn't even a blonde, was she?)


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 02:52 PM

Certainly not a natural blonde.

Convergence: An interview on WNYC today mentioned that the phrase "Dance of the Seven Veils" was originated by Oscar Wilde.


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: BH
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 06:13 PM

The interview was interesting since it also put to rest some of the legends and myths that have arisen over the years about some exotic dancers---Salome included. The interview was with an author about her book---the title, I believe, is Salome and her Sisters.


Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Jon W.
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 06:21 PM

Hmm - I followed Joe's link, then clicked on Rita Hayworth, and guess what - she was originally a brunette. Should've gone back to it to play Salome.


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 06:22 PM

Rita Hayworth was a redhead.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Help: How did John the Baptist die??
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 12:26 PM

Tom Robbins novel Skinny legs and all features the Dance of the Seven Veils, in its original form as the attainment of enlightenment; indeed, it's the whole theme of the book.

Did you know that if your head is cut off cleanly you can be conscious for up to ten seconds before the oxygen in your brain gives out? Yecch!

Steve


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