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Any serious 12 strings players left?

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GUEST,Taliesn 23 Aug 02 - 12:42 PM
Clinton Hammond 23 Aug 02 - 12:47 PM
Mark Ross 23 Aug 02 - 01:06 PM
GUEST,Taliesn 23 Aug 02 - 01:09 PM
GUEST,alinact 23 Aug 02 - 01:12 PM
Clinton Hammond 23 Aug 02 - 01:14 PM
Mark Clark 23 Aug 02 - 01:26 PM
TJO 23 Aug 02 - 01:28 PM
Stefan Wirz 23 Aug 02 - 01:36 PM
Stefan Wirz 23 Aug 02 - 01:41 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 23 Aug 02 - 02:18 PM
Mark Ross 23 Aug 02 - 02:29 PM
John MacKenzie 23 Aug 02 - 03:38 PM
Rick Fielding 23 Aug 02 - 03:57 PM
ChanteyMatt 23 Aug 02 - 04:29 PM
GUEST,Taliesn 23 Aug 02 - 05:30 PM
Murray MacLeod 23 Aug 02 - 07:09 PM
Rick Fielding 23 Aug 02 - 08:57 PM
GUEST,Taliesn 24 Aug 02 - 01:15 AM
GUEST,knutec55371@yahoo.com 23 Feb 04 - 05:09 PM
GUEST,bid andy 23 Feb 04 - 05:24 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 23 Feb 04 - 05:49 PM
George Papavgeris 23 Feb 04 - 07:47 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 23 Feb 04 - 08:03 PM
kendall 23 Feb 04 - 09:05 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 23 Feb 04 - 09:45 PM
freightdawg 23 Feb 04 - 11:50 PM
Mooh 24 Feb 04 - 12:01 AM
Roger the Skiffler 24 Feb 04 - 03:38 AM
George Papavgeris 24 Feb 04 - 04:10 AM
Steve-o 24 Feb 04 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 24 Feb 04 - 12:57 PM
Rex 24 Feb 04 - 01:06 PM
GUEST 24 Feb 04 - 01:20 PM
Wesley S 24 Feb 04 - 01:50 PM
freightdawg 24 Feb 04 - 02:24 PM
johnfitz.com 24 Feb 04 - 08:42 PM
GUEST,barry biesanz 25 Feb 04 - 08:24 AM
George Papavgeris 25 Feb 04 - 08:35 AM
Roger the Skiffler 25 Feb 04 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,AT 25 Feb 04 - 10:04 AM
GUEST,Shaldon 25 Feb 04 - 11:09 AM
Dave Bryant 25 Feb 04 - 11:57 AM
Ironmule 25 Feb 04 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,JB 25 Feb 04 - 03:48 PM
Gorgeous Gary 25 Feb 04 - 08:42 PM
GUEST,Whistle Stop 26 Feb 04 - 08:08 AM
musiclover 28 Feb 04 - 03:21 PM
GUEST,cocoberry 06 Mar 04 - 05:56 PM
GUEST,Greg in Australia 26 Mar 04 - 12:36 AM
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Subject: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 12:42 PM

Whenever I have the golden oppurtunity to join a gathering of singer/guitar-picker / players I *always* ask if there be a 12 string guitar player in the house. I've found that most well-endowed guitar homefronts ( 3 or more gutiars ) *may* include a 12 string yet ,more times than not , they then go on to fail to pass my white glove test ( Yeah,that's right , the presense of "undisturbed dust" on the fret neck ). Might I humbly suggest ; " This is an *outrage* Might I humbly suggest why. Anyone whom has more than even a passing partiality to the unique "voice" of guitar can not be taken aback , if not downright enchanted , by the fuller voice of the 12 string *choir* of strings.

Yeah, and I've heard all the usual excuses we're ALL aware: Too hard to keep in tune ,Too hard to fingerpick , too hard to work that fretneck ,Too expensive , yaday,yada,yada.

Give me a break!

The 12 string is as fine and as unique a presense as any stringed instrument and to find players so rare is "danged" exasperatin' to say the least. I mean it's not so exotic an instrument as the guitar-harp. Worse , I visit well-endowed Music shops fromn time to time and amidst legions of electric and accoustic guitars perhaps 2. Meaning the next generation that bothers to try an learn certainly ain't bothering with the 12 string. This concenrs me no end.

Prompting the question: Are there 12 stringers left? I mean in recording there's Leo Kotke and , to some degree Preston Reed and whom else? I must add that the British guitarists/ virutosos ( Steven Howe springs to mind ) have shown substantially more versatility in giving the 12 string more artistic attention than I see generated here on our soil or am I missing something. Correct me please otherwise it's just a damn shame and it ain't gettin; any better.

So , folks ,' fess up. Where can one go to hear some 12 string once in a while. Also , my anguished cry goes out to the UK members of this messaageboard. Whom in the UK has recordings that I'm missing entirely. Links would be most welcome.

OK, said my piece now have at it

Taliesn


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 12:47 PM

I find a 12 string to be more trouble than it's worth...

I guess I can see it being used occasionally for a soloist for the different tone, but if yer playing with more than one person, I just can't see the point...


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 01:06 PM

Clinton, I beg to differ with you. On this last tour with the Rose Tattoo, I was privileged to play Rik Palieris's Bruce Taylor 12-string, a copy of Pete Seeger's old Stanley Francis. It has a 28 inch scale, and tuned down to B it rocked the building on our version of the old Almanac Singersw' GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN. YOu would not believe the resonance of this guitar. I mean it felt like I was riding an earthquake!

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 01:09 PM

(quote) "Yu would not believe the resonance of this guitar. I mean it felt like I was riding an earthquake! "

Now *that's* the kind of musician's passion and spirit that I wasfishin' to catch hold of here like so much ligntenin' in a bottle. Keep it comin'


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 01:12 PM

50% of the stuff I play when we perform is on a 12 string (Fender) but it is mostly as rhythm guitar with the occasional little lead-y bits.

I'm with Taliesn on this - can't understand why there is not more use made of 12 string guitars in accoustic groups.

Allan


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 01:14 PM

Hey Mark, you can differ all you want...

It's just personal opinion eh... yours and mine both...


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 01:26 PM

I hear that Leo Kotke's isn't dusty.

I love the sound of Lead Belly's 12-string and I always loved hearing Pete Seeger's at concerts. There used to be a bunch of 12-string players, (Fred Gerlach comes to mind, and I've owned a couple of them at various times. Still, a lot of the 12-strings you run into sound sorta like a load of dog tags falling down stairs. I know that's just because they're cheap guitars or haven't been set up properly but one eventually begins to dread running into a 12-string player.

Set up and played well though, they're still inspiring.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: TJO
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 01:28 PM

My experience is that the rarity of dedicated 12 string guitar players can be explained in one word -- tendinitis. It's also one of the reasons the popularity of the smaller guitars is growing. And didn't Leo Kottke have to take a couple years off from wear and tear and revamp his playing style before he came back? ( Playing more nylon string guitar instead of 12 string.)

I have a Martin and a Gibson 12. I love 'em both. Sound to die for. But after a couple hours of digging in to get that sound, I have to put them away for a couple months until I recover.

T.J. O'Malley


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Stefan Wirz
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 01:36 PM

What about Paul Geremia, Fred Gerlach and Mark Spoelstra (just having out a new CD after more than 20 years!) !?!


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Stefan Wirz
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 01:41 PM

and how could I forget Harry Lewman ?!


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 02:18 PM

I only have three words to say about how a 12-string guitar should be played:

Richard Leo Johnson

And as far as not staying in tune goes, I have a Guild JF3012 and a Martin J12-15 and they both stay in tune just fine. Admittedly, for folks like me with less than perfect pitch, the advent of electronic tuners has made the job of getting them in tune in the first place a little less daunting.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 02:29 PM

The problem with most 12-string players is that they tune their instrument to E. They sound much better tuned down at least one whole step. My personal preference is to C or B. Blind Willie McTell I'm told used to tune to A!

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 03:38 PM

Well I've got an old Epiphone FT85 12 string that I've played as a solo instrument for years, and, yes I'm afraid that I tune it to E. However I've at long last got a decent capo [Shubb] so I can tune it down now, but still capo up to play along with others, if I need to. Failte.....Giok


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 03:57 PM

I absolutely LOVE the 12 string and I'm quite fanatical about all it's aspects. Leadbelly is still the most creative folk musician I ever heard and although I sure could never sing like him I've played his stuff for many years. My current Twelve string which seems to be able to handle my very low tuning well (B to B with a 67 on the bass) is a big Takamine.

Over the years I've owned a bunch......Stella, Three Harmony Sovereigns, Martin, Epiphone, Three Guilds and a couple of others I can't remember.

Fred Gerlach was a blast....wonderful player. He's the one who first got Pete S. playing, apparently by either loaning or selling Pete one of his instruments. This was prior to Pete's getting the Stan Francis.

Cheers

Rick


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: ChanteyMatt
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 04:29 PM

Thanks, everyone. I just decided to add a 12 string to my selection of instruments. I love the sound. Listening to Gordon Bok and Stan Rogers, as well as others, convinced me I should try it. My music friends thought it was just a plan to get yet another guitar.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 05:30 PM

(quote) "Thanks, everyone. I just decided to add a 12 string to my selection of instruments. I love the sound. Listening to Gordon Bok and Stan Rogers, as well as others, convinced me I should try it."

Iwhat a pleasure to read. it was my sincereest wish that if thus thread inspired even just "one" stalwart soul of a musician to *court* this grand instrument's muse then it was well worth taking the chance to post.

And ,as to Rick Fielding's unabashed love affair with the 12 string.... (quote) "I absolutely LOVE the 12 string and I'm quite fanatical about all it's aspects."...... ..... well what more can I say but that your 12 string passion is *music to my ears*. Any mp3 samples you'd care to make available. Would love to hear what your level of devotion has wroth. Please consider about sharing your favorite material of what you consider to be the best expression of that devotion because there's far too few of ya'. Mean while I'm still waitin' for the UK members here to contribute some of their low hangin' fruit to this "12 string" thread-basket.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 07:09 PM

The first time I (and probably millions of others )ever heard a twelve string was in 196something when the Rooftop Singers recorded "Walk Right In". Loved the sound. Visceral, that's what it was.

Then of course, Roger Mcguinn took the instrument (electrified) to new heights with the Byrds. And trust me, he can STILL create magic, solo, with an (acoustic) twelve string.

But IMHO there is no question that Leo Kottke, when he was at the peak of his powers, was THE master.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 08:57 PM

I've gotten to know Erik Darling a bit over the last couple of years, and one of the hilites for me of the Folk Alliance in Cleveland was gettin' to pick with him for an hour. He told me how the arrangement to "Walk Right In" came about.....he was a huge fan of Leadbelly's and used to see him while growing up in New York city.

Taliesen, I'm afraid that I'm far too computer illiterate to do mp3s, but my last three albums have had 12 string songs on them. If you wanna send me a PM, I can send you to a couple of websites that have sound bites of my stuff.

I'm workin' on a new album at the moment (still with Borealis Records in Canada) and there should be at least three 'pickin' tunes on the 12 string.

Have to agree with Murray. Leo Kottke hit like a bolt of lightening. Wonderful player, and I even like his SINGING!

Cheers

Rick


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 01:15 AM

(quote) "If you wanna send me a PM, I can send you to a couple of websites that have sound bites of my stuff. "

Heck-fire , just send on your email to taliesn@mac.com. It would be my pleasure to hear what y'all got.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: GUEST,knutec55371@yahoo.com
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 05:09 PM

I got my first 12 string when I was 16. It was a Decca. I spent more time glueing it back together than playing it. When i was 18 I got a gibson B25-12. It was a wonderful little guitar. It died in an airline luggage compartment. For awhile i had a Guild electric 12 string (Guild Starfire 12) that I bought in a pawn shop in Albuquerque for $75. In 1975 I took out a student loan for $2000 and went directly from the financial aid office to the Podium Guitar shop in Dinkytown (Minneapolis, MN) and bought a Guild F212xl. It is a wonderful guitar and has had a lot of wear and tear over the years. I usually tune it to an open G (d bass). I have several other guitars and I have to admit, that I play them. I have a brass bodied dobro and a 40 year old guild classical guitar that I play on a regular basis. When I want to relax and enjoy myself, I play my 12 string. It has a deep bass voice and the high notes ring like a bell.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 stings players left?
From: GUEST,bid andy
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 05:24 PM

Get you're self's a full power welsh longbow. It has one string but when shot at uke players it's a dam sight more satisfying, the thing is though it only has one string, unless you keep one under your hat


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 05:49 PM

I've owned some 12 string guitars over the years and ended up getting rid of them as I've gone farther and farther from my folk roots to just country and mostly bluegrass.

Once in a while you hear a 12-string in country, but never in bluegrass.

I think the instrument is basically more than ever just a novelty with applications best for solo work.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 07:47 PM

"Just a novelty with applications best for solo work"? Really? No way! What have I been doing for the last three years then? 90% of my output of 104 songs to date are written specifically with fingerpicking on a 12-string in mind. That's how I perform them and it's becoming my trademark ("you're not supposed to fingerpick it", I was told several times - well, what do you know, nobody had told me when I started and it's too late now to change).

Neither do I tune it down - concert pitch it is, and it sounds great. Sure, I can thread needles through the callouses on both my hands (no fingerpicks for this guy, bare flesh does it best for me). But it's worth it for the fullness of sound and the variety of emotions it can evoke. You can imitate a mandolin or bouzouki on the higher strings, and base lines from a 12-string leave all others standing.

I started playing a Yamaha that I bought in the Netherlands 10 years ago, and only 3 weeks ago I took possession of a Custom Jumbo Cort electroacoustic - not just a beauty to look at, but it fills a room wall to wall just in acoustic mode.

And 12-strings are not just for bashing rhythms out of. They can produce really mellow, sensitive sounds for the slower numbers also.
Just go to http://www.folk4all.net, click on "albums", then on any of the album images to go to the tracklists, and finally on the headphone icons to hear how versatile a 12-string can be.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 08:03 PM

I'm glad it's your "trademark." Not mine though. Like I said, it's used mostly if not always for "boy and his guitar" acts.

I never heard anyone say that you weren't supposed to fingerpick it. I did when I owned one. I always enjoyed Leo Kottke's playing and he can do some amazing things with it, but I still think they are a pain in the ass and like I said are hardly ever used in country and never in bluegrass ensembles.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 09:05 PM

Anyone who doesn't like the 12 string guitar should hear mine in Rick Fieldings hands.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 09:45 PM

It's not that I don't like it.

I just don't find it interesting any more.

I lost interest long ago with Bob Gibson and The Rooftop Singers.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: freightdawg
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 11:50 PM

I had an Alvarez 12 string as a teenager and now own a Pimentel. In terms of active players, I have a video tape of Paul Stookey with an awesome rendition of his "Wedding Song" (fingerpicking, no less). If I'm not mistaken, Gordon Lightfoot plays the 12, and of course my favorite, although not among us anymore, was John Denver (both flat pick and finger pick). I love the 12 for its versatility, although I must admit to being more of a hacker than a player. They can be dreadfully finicky animals, but like most things that demand a little more effort, they make the effort more than worthwhile. Just wait a little while. In a few years someone will "rediscover" the 12 and everyone will act like it is a new invention. Meanwhile, those of us who love and adore our 12 strings will grin knowingly and go back to our pickin'.

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: Mooh
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 12:01 AM

Dan Crary plays a pretty mean 12 string, Taylor I think.

I love mine, a Beneteau rosewood and spruce. There might be a picture of it in the Mudcat photos. Stays in tune as well as my 6 strings.

There's precious few of them these days but I've a notion to get another sometime so that there's less downtime stringing and changing tunings. Trouble is, I'd like another a lot like the one I got and I don't think I can afford one right now or anytime soon. Wanna take up a collection? Charity's fine, subscribe to mine.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 03:38 AM

It must be a Greek thing, George. My Greek guitarist friend, Yorgos Glinatsis, also favours the 12 string, plays bare fingered and can make it sound like a bouzouki at times.
If you ever get to Kalymnos pop up to Emborios and drop in at the Atistico, the two of you would have a blast!

RtS


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 04:10 AM

Could be right there, Roger - opa!
Thanks for the compliment, Martin -I haven't been called a "boy" in a looooong time.
It does boil down to taste with the 12-strings, I guess. Greightdawg is right, I can see the fad reappearing in a few years, and we can be "gurus" then!
Meanwhile, 2 weeks ago I heard that Dave Pegg (he of Jethro Tull and Fairport fame) is splitting up with his wife and selling all his kit, including a very interesting Guild 12-string that used to belong to Ian Anderson. Aaarghhh - I only just bought my new Cort, I think the wife won't talk to me for a month if I go out and buy another one....


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: Steve-o
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 12:38 PM

M-G, I basically agree with you- the twelve has limited applications, but there are good examples of what can be done with a 12-string in Bluegrass. Dan Crary currently does a few good things, although he is a little too "flashy" for my tastes. If you want to hear the best, find an old album by Tut Taylor- I think it's called "12-String Dobro" or similar- with the unmatched Clarence White flatpicking a 12-string. That'll pique your interest.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 12:57 PM

Clarence White was amazing and 'ol Tut is still a dobro king, but these recordings are from over 30 years ago and at best can be considered a novelty.

Anything can be used in bluegrass once in a while, just for a change of pace.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: Rex
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 01:06 PM

The 12 was my main instrument in the 80's. These days I play more on the fiddle and mandolin but still enjoy the jangling sound of the 12. I like to finger pick it.

Rex


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 01:20 PM

TBH, I own a 1968 Martin D12-20 I didn't play for so long that I loaned it to a friend 10 years ago; he plays it regularly. I saw a Taylor 12 a couple of months ago that I would definitely play if it lived with me, though.

But the reason I stopped playing the 12 was simple: too many instruments to carry on the road. And autoharp atm fulfills any desire I have for a fuller stringed sound.

wg


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: Wesley S
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 01:50 PM

My first 12 string was a cheap Italian Eko Ranger. It must have been 50 pounds. A real pain to carry around. Currently I own a Lowden made with Ovenkol and a Cedar top. In my opinion it spanks any Taylor I've ever played. YMMV.

My favorite 12 string belongs to my brother. It's an old { mid 60's } Gibson B45-12 as I recall. And if you can wrap your hands around the neck it has a bass response that sounds like a train rolling through your living room.

Now as far as 12 string players goes I'm suprised that no one has mentioned Fred Neil. He's the guy I always wanted to sound like. His old Electra LP's were classic.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: freightdawg
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 02:24 PM

My new and most honored friend El Greko,

Never in the history of the English language has an unintentional slip of the finger been more noted and appreciated.

Ah, or was it unintentional? Is it possible that out there somewhere a star has begun to shine on my presence?   Perhaps my aura is beginning to exude its splendor? Is the grand poobah of 12 strings recognizing my pitiful contribution to the artistry of the 12 string?

I seriously doubt any of that. However, for the brief life of this thread, and for its little niche in history, I hereby humbly accept and will graciously bow to the most honorable and unexpected title of "Greightdawg."

Tail held high and laughing hysterically,

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: johnfitz.com
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 08:42 PM

I love my Taylor 12 string, but I play with Hatrack Gallagher on harmonica. Damn, if he doesn't give me the evil eye when I pull out a capo. It always puts the guitar just slightly out of pitch. Any suggestions there? I've tried every tuning known to man. I'd hate to think of having to upgrade from a guitar that already cost an arm and a something.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,barry biesanz
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 08:24 AM

I believe Spider John Koerner still plays 12 string regularly in Minneapolis. I recently saw an old video of him, Tony Glover and the late Snaker Dave Ray, who also played 12 string. Made me want to get one!

Barry


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 08:35 AM

It was definitely intentional, Frayeddawg!
Or it should have been. :-)


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 09:23 AM

Robert Lockwood Jnr.

RtS


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,AT
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 10:04 AM

I have a rare instrument an Ovation Custom Balladeer 12 string about 16 or 17 years old now. She'll whisper, croon, sing, scream, holler and yells if you need her to. Best memory is Ken Hamm playing Last Steam Engine Train Blues on it. Hope he converts to 12 strings in future albums! Leadbelly and Leo Kottke are up there still.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,Shaldon
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 11:09 AM

I have been to folk clubs where Paul Mitchell plays. He visits this board somethimes. He plays a mean 12 string. He plays it different to anyone else I have ever heard. Sings well as well.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 11:57 AM

Pete Hicks (of "Slattery", somtimes "Skinner's Rats", and "Crayfolk" etc) still uses a 12-string. He was playing it at the "Fenn Bell" session the other Sunday as about nine mudcatters can testify. I'm waiting for him to make his entry onto Mudcat - probably as "Streaky".


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: Ironmule
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 02:16 PM

I'm WesleyS's brother. Thought I'd say the serial number of my B45-12 Gibson puts it's birth date about '57. I'd loved the 12's I heard on the old "Hootenany" TV show, and dropped into every music store and pawn shop I went by for more than two years trying actions and listening for the sound I wanted. I was then a GI stationed in Charleston SC, and took many different back roads to and from Florida to find more music stores to visit. When I was reassigned to the Puget Sound area, I finally found my "friend" in a small pawn shop in Everett WA, in the winter of 66-67. Hours spent with it helped me stay sane in those days. ....BG

Took quite a few hours of practice to get precise enough finger placement to cleanly do ragtime fingerpicking of things like "Alice's Restaurant" "Cocaine" and such.

I've remembered Wesley in my will ...VBG

Jeff Smith


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,JB
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 03:48 PM

Brilliant guest Taliesn,

You have awoken great interest in this fantastic and very underestimated instrument.

Naturally there will always be a few cynics out there who know everything better and have already buried the 12-string, but we`ll survive without them.

I play an old Guild 12-string F112 myself. I think it`from the 60`s and it doesn`t look in any way imposing. The action is incredibly low, but still does not buzz when I use a capo on the fifth fret. It also keeps the tuning very well and picking can be very effective using picks.

Gordon Lightfoot has always been a great exponent of the 12-string. He plays a Gibson Sunburst, (just see that very sexy picture on his Sundown album. He constantly alternates between the 6-string and the 12-string and the effect is pure magic.

Long live the 12-string!

JB


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 08:42 PM

I have a Seagull 12-string. I use it for the Renaissance dance band I play with, and like to use it for the faster and peppier songs in my reportoire.

Especially, the space-themed songs I write for the filk community really ring out when I'm playing them on the 12-string. Also "Sedona" (which has been mentioned in other categories here and which I've played at the FSGW Getaway).

For the dance band, I'll admit part of the reason I like the 12-string is that I **do** keep it tuned down so I can take the capo off and transpose songs we do in Bb and Gm a step up into keys I don't have to learn bar chords to play. Yeah...I'm lazy. But since I basically play rhythm guitar for the band, the 12 works nicely for that.

As for other 12-string players, Sean McGhee of Dc-area duo Side by Side comes to mind.

-- Gary


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 08:08 AM

I love the sound of a well-played 12-string. Along with all the other fine players mentioned in this thread, I would add the name of Ralph Towner, a guitarist who has done outstanding work as a solo and with various ensembles (including Oregon and the Paul Winter Consort, and side projects with musicians from the jazz world like Gary Burton, John Abercrombie, and others). Anyone who thinks the 12-string is a limited instrument should give him a listen; it'll open your ears to all sorts of possibilities.


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: musiclover
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 03:21 PM

hi all, I only own a 6 string now. but i want a 12. I would figure that the six string would be more limited. But as far as i go when playing an insrument, they are all limitles! (even though there is only like 13 notes on a guitar)


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,cocoberry
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 05:56 PM

Fine subject for a thread my brothers & sisters. I think what would awaken even our tightass-bluegrass players to the beauty of 12 string was the music of the late great Gabby Pahinui and the recent work of his son Cyril. I have two Guild 12's: a 1967 f212 (retired) and an active duty 1976 f412SB. Both instruments are non-original-they have the imprint of artistic lutiers adding touches over the years. I use them any more to get inspiration when I'm in a writing slump because sometimes the subleties of a different sound in your ear can take you to pleasurable places indeed.
What I would recommend to those having tuning troubles on a good quality 12, is to spend some dough on your axe and get your saddle completely compensated. True, this is time consuming for the luthier to do correctly and will be reflected on the invoice he hands you, but you will nver regret this!
Aloha & malama pono


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Subject: RE: Any serious 12 strings players left?
From: GUEST,Greg in Australia
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 12:36 AM

Had a 12-string since age 19 after I emigrated from the UK to Australia, and never been without one since. There's something about those shimmering overtones that completely satisfies MY musical soul. Never play with picks - have learned to get the most out of it with fingertips (don't use my nails). Managed to record a 24 track CD ("EKO12") containing bluegrass instrumentals, a few songs and some classicals, just to show what a 12-string can do. Still have my original EKO (it would break my heart to part with it) but recently also bought a new Takamine 12 with pickup for a new CD of original songs.
The story on everything can be found on www.clancys.com.au/music/music.html
PS. The guy who said a capo puts him out of tune ... probably capo pressing the strings too hard ... try a SHUBB capo (use the 12-string version which has a longer bar)... it provides an infinite range for clamping pressure ... adjust it JUST enough to stop the strings buzzing.


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