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Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?

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John in Brisbane 18 May 98 - 11:07 PM
dick greenhaus 19 May 98 - 04:36 PM
Susan of DT 19 May 98 - 06:47 PM
Animaterra 19 May 98 - 09:12 PM
Joe Offer 19 May 98 - 11:41 PM
DWDitty 20 May 98 - 06:03 AM
Animaterra 20 May 98 - 05:27 PM
Roger Himler 20 May 98 - 05:49 PM
Joe Offer 20 May 98 - 08:16 PM
John in Brisbane 20 May 98 - 09:23 PM
Joe Offer 20 May 98 - 09:48 PM
murray@mpce.mq.edu.au 20 May 98 - 09:52 PM
John in Brisbane 21 May 98 - 12:55 AM
alison 21 May 98 - 12:57 AM
John in Brisbane 21 May 98 - 01:08 AM
Joe Offer 21 May 98 - 02:36 AM
Roger Himler 21 May 98 - 06:08 AM
murray@mpce.mq.edu.au 21 May 98 - 07:22 AM
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Subject: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 18 May 98 - 11:07 PM

I guess that many of us have had a go at singing harmonies for folk songs. In my own case I can usually knock a harmony line up by ear. Sometimes they're OK, sometimes they're not!

The DT's current storage concentrates on the lyrics, with a simple melody line in (say) half of them. Without wishing to diminish the outstanding efforts to date, I feel that we're missing out on recording part of the real joy of the music we love so much.

I could write more, but would prefer to hear from others so that we collectively could advance this desire.

Regards John


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 May 98 - 04:36 PM

John- When the Digital Tradition was started, we decided that there was no way we could include everything about a song.Chords, harmony...very personal items. I, for one, am weary of arguments about the "right" harmony.


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 19 May 98 - 06:47 PM

We were also playing the tunes on the computer's beeper, which was only capable of one line. Some of the rounds and Copper songs have more than one voice entered.


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: Animaterra
Date: 19 May 98 - 09:12 PM

One of the joys of singing together is improvising harmony on the spot. What I would *really* like would be a way for us to do that! An auditory chat room???


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 May 98 - 11:41 PM

Anybody have any pointers for us who are "harmonially challenged"? Most of the harmony parts I've been able to do are ones I learned by rote. I can't really say I can read music, but I can pick up new melodies easily, and seem to be able to sense what note comes next. Is there anything I can do to help me learn to sing harmony?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: DWDitty
Date: 20 May 98 - 06:03 AM

A great way to learn to sing harmony is to join a church choir. After about a year or two, I have finally learned how to pick out the tenor line. BTW, I do not read music, but I have learned how to sort of follow along using the intervals between the notes as a guide.


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: Animaterra
Date: 20 May 98 - 05:27 PM

Not only a church choir, but any chorus or group of singers. Sit next to someone who seems to know what he/she is doing and sing with him/her/them! (Isn't PC-ness wonderfully efficient??). Over time, you'll get to know what harmony "feels" right at what time. If you're a note'dependent musician it may take longer, but note-dependency can be cured!


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: Roger Himler
Date: 20 May 98 - 05:49 PM

Joe O.! What has helped me immensely is a tape compilation called, oddly enough, "Learn to Sing Harmony." It's available from Homespun Tapes, Box 694, Woodstock, NY 12498. Three cassettes that take you step by step through different styles and ranges of harmony. The teachers are Marcy Marxer, Cathy Fink, and Robin and Linda Williams. All four are well-known in American folk circles and are steeped in the American "tradition" (Cathy is a championship level claw-hammer style banjo player). They cover 18 tunes and give you opportunities to sing along with a harmony singer and then try singing the harmony with just a lead singer. The tunes vary through folk, country, and blues to give some variety to technique.

I cannot sight read music and don't easily learn from notes on the page. This set gave me confidence to sing harmony in groups and even to "stretch out" some and create less than obvious harmonies. I learned quite a bit and I had a good time.

Good luck with your music.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 May 98 - 08:16 PM

Roger, I'm sending off a postcard right now. I've been thrilled with how well I can sing harmony - but only when I'm standing next to Joanne, the only person in our church choir who can sing harmony well. I'd like to be able to do it without her help, since I rarely have the opportunity to sing along with her since I'm usually needed to carry the melody.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 20 May 98 - 09:23 PM

The harmony tapes idea sounds great. If someone could please oblige with an email/fax/phone number I would appreciate it greatly.

Just to kick this off, I went looking last night for a reasonable example of a suitable harmony that I might be able to share. Found that I had on disc a MIDI version of Steeleye Span's "Gaudete" with lead vocal and three harmonies. It's a great sing, and real fun - if you're not put out that it is written in Latin. It could be sung by anything from 2 voices up to a whole choir. Haven't looked yet but I assume that the words are either in the DT or at Steeleye's Web site.

How to proceed?

I have no idea where I located it on the Web, but assuming I can find it in the near future, I can advise in this Forum and those with a sound card can have a listen. Those with programs such as Noteworthy Composer or similar can view and/or print the lead and three harmony parts. There a number of free/cheap programs which would allow users to listen to individual harmony parts.

I could send the MIDI file to Mr Greenhaus.......?

I can and will (if I can figure it out) transpose each of the 4 parts into ABC using Allan Foster's program, and submit to this forum.

Any feedback or thoughts please?

Regards John


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 May 98 - 09:48 PM

Well, I just wasted a perfectly good postcard. Homespun Tapes has a Web site, and the animated graphics on the home page make the visit a real treat. The tapes aren't cheap ($38 US), but I bit the bullet and ordered.

John, I'd really like to see the tune for Gaudete. I'm wondering about the quality of the lyrics text in the database. I've had six years of seminary Latin training, and I can't understand a good number of the words. What I'd suggest for the tune, John, is that you post a link, or post each of the parts as a separate tune, and then we who can will be able to put the parts back together if we like. I don't know if you will be able to post tunes with a bass clef here, though. You may have to transcribe them.


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au
Date: 20 May 98 - 09:52 PM

John, I would like to vote for ABC. It does seem to be the closest thing to a "universal language" that can be posted across different platforms. It has pretty much all of the information of sheet music, although I wouldn't like to sight read from it.

It is a bit tedious writing them though. I think Alan's (of Australia) program will produce an ABC file from a MIDI. I don't know how it handles multiple voices.

If you find something with a particular nice harmony that you would like to share, it is best to post it, say, using Alan's program; but not expect it to find its way to the database. I see the database as a source of information, rather than entertainment. I would only want to see the harmony in it when it was necessary to understand, or appreciate the particular piece. For most folk songs, I would rather just be given the chord patterns in a CRD file like OLGA and Cowpie use (as well as the melody in a MIDI).

Murray


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 21 May 98 - 12:55 AM

OK, I'll give ABC a go. I have a few versions of Allan's (or is that Alan's?) program - so hopefully I have one that works. Have nutted out how I can do this with NoteWorthy to separate the harmony lines - will try it tonight.

Thanks for the tip about transposing the bass clef. I do not have a detailed knowledge of the effective range of ABC notation. If anyone is still awake in the next few hours could you please let me know. Otherwise I'll just stumble through the process tonight.

Regards John


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Subject: Tune Add: GAUDETE
From: alison
Date: 21 May 98 - 12:57 AM

Hi,

I don't know what key this is meant to be in (on the recording), so I stuck it in Am. If I hear the recording I'll fix up the other parts.

Alan's program really is very easy to use.

Slainte

Alison

MIDI file: GAUDETE.MID

Timebase: 480

Name: Gaudete
TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Key: C
Tempo: 100 (600000 microsec/crotchet)
Start
0000 1 69 044 0478 0 69 044 0002 1 69 042 0478 0 69 042 0002 1 67 040 0478 0 67 040 0002 1 69 042 0238 0 69 042 0002 1 71 049 0238 0 71 049 0002 1 72 053 0478 0 72 053 0002 1 72 048 0238 0 72 048 0002 1 71 044 0478 0 71 044 0002 1 69 046 0238 0 69 046 0002 1 67 040 0478 0 67 040 0002 1 67 035 0478 0 67 035 0002 1 67 028 0478 0 67 028 0002 1 69 034 0478 0 69 034 0002 1 71 046 0718 0 71 046 0002 1 69 028 0238 0 69 028 0002 1 67 028 0478 0 67 028 0002 1 69 028 0238 0 69 028 0002 1 71 042 0478 0 71 042 0002 1 69 029 0238 0 69 029 0002 1 67 033 0478 0 67 033 0002 1 69 035 0478 0 69 035 0002 1 69 035 0478 0 69 035 0002 1 69 046 0478 0 69 046 0002 1 67 031 0478 0 67 031 0002 1 69 029 0238 0 69 029 0002 1 71 042 0238 0 71 042 0002 1 72 040 0478 0 72 040 0002 1 72 040 0238 0 72 040 0002 1 71 040 0478 0 71 040 0002 1 69 031 0238 0 69 031 0002 1 67 033 0478 0 67 033 0002 1 67 034 0478 0 67 034 0002 1 67 028 0478 0 67 028 0002 1 69 029 0478 0 69 029 0002 1 71 038 0718 0 71 038 0002 1 69 029 0238 0 69 029 0002 1 67 037 0478 0 67 037 0002 1 69 031 0238 0 69 031 0002 1 71 040 0478 0 71 040 0002 1 69 024 0238 0 69 024 0002 1 67 040 0478 0 67 040 0002 1 69 049 0958 0 69 049 0002 1 69 048 0238 0 69 048 0002 1 69 044 0238 0 69 044 0002 1 67 026 0186 1 69 049 0082 0 67 026 0212 1 72 030 0014 0 69 049 0189 1 71 026 0015 0 72 030 0223 0 71 026 0052 1 69 036 0416 0 69 036 0051 1 69 028 0238 0 69 028 0002 1 65 029 0238 0 65 029 0002 1 64 044 0186 1 65 038 0015 0 64 044 0277 0 65 038 0002 1 62 033 0478 0 62 033 0002 1 62 033 0478 0 62 033 0002 1 62 033 0238 0 62 033 0002 1 62 022 0238 0 62 022 0002 1 65 021 0238 0 65 021 0002 1 62 030 0238 0 62 030 0002 1 65 032 0238 0 65 032 0002 1 67 037 0238 0 67 037 0002 1 69 031 0478 0 69 031 0002 1 72 046 0238 0 72 046 0002 1 69 043 0238 0 69 043 0002 1 71 040 0238 0 71 040 0002 1 72 030 0238 0 72 030 0002 1 69 031 0478 0 69 031 0002 1 69 046 0478 0 69 046
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Gaudete
M:4/4
Q:1/4=100
K:C
A2A2G2AB|c2cB2AG2|G2G2A2B2|-BAG2AB2A|G2A2A2A2|
G2ABc2cB|-BAG2G2G2|A2B3AG2|AB2AG2A2|-A2AAG3/4A5/4c3/4B5/4|
A2AFE3/4F5/4D2|D2DDFDFG|A2cABcA2|A8||


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 21 May 98 - 01:08 AM

Hi Alison,

Didn't see your message before. Thanks to your thread I now have Alan's latest program. If it makes transcription sense I will transpose to C as well.

Thanks John


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 May 98 - 02:36 AM

Let's move Gaudete over here.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: Roger Himler
Date: 21 May 98 - 06:08 AM

John in Brisbane,

So I'm down on my knees digging through the catalog pile at 6 AM. Here are contact points for Homespun Tapes. To order, call 1-800-33-TAPES. Call between 8:30 AM and 5:00 PM, Eastern Daylight Savings Time. Fax 914-246-5282 (24 hours, but you should have an order form.

Learn to Sing Harmony, Ad-FWM-HR $37.50 plus Postage and Handling.

This post is solely the opinion of the writer and does not imply and endorsement by Max, Mudcat, or anybody else.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Harmony, Harmony? Wherefore art thou?
From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au
Date: 21 May 98 - 07:22 AM

John, The document found as The standard in BNF is probably the most comprehensive description of the abc standard. More readable is. The document that com es with abc2mtex

Murray


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