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BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?

GUEST,Guest: Curious 08 Jul 02 - 05:58 PM
GUEST 08 Jul 02 - 06:11 PM
katlaughing 08 Jul 02 - 06:26 PM
GUEST 08 Jul 02 - 06:35 PM
GUEST,Sonja 08 Jul 02 - 06:59 PM
michaelr 08 Jul 02 - 07:19 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 08 Jul 02 - 07:25 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 08 Jul 02 - 08:09 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 08 Jul 02 - 08:20 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 08 Jul 02 - 08:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Jul 02 - 08:55 PM
mack/misophist 08 Jul 02 - 10:17 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 08 Jul 02 - 10:22 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 08 Jul 02 - 10:40 PM
Bill D 08 Jul 02 - 10:55 PM
Jacob B 09 Jul 02 - 09:48 AM
katlaughing 09 Jul 02 - 10:24 AM
mack/misophist 09 Jul 02 - 11:04 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 09 Jul 02 - 11:41 AM
GUEST,Guest: Curious 09 Jul 02 - 01:50 PM
C-flat 09 Jul 02 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,maryrrf 09 Jul 02 - 04:20 PM
NicoleC 09 Jul 02 - 05:01 PM
GUEST,Peter from Essex 09 Jul 02 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,Peter from Essex 09 Jul 02 - 06:03 PM
katlaughing 09 Jul 02 - 08:37 PM
mack/misophist 10 Jul 02 - 11:38 AM
mack/misophist 10 Jul 02 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,Sonja 10 Jul 02 - 10:45 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 11 Jul 02 - 01:37 AM
GUEST 11 Jul 02 - 01:44 AM
mack/misophist 11 Jul 02 - 10:38 AM
Mr Red 11 Jul 02 - 10:41 AM
GUEST 11 Jul 02 - 12:03 PM
Dave Wynn 11 Jul 02 - 12:10 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 02 - 12:13 PM
mack/misophist 11 Jul 02 - 12:18 PM
Dave Wynn 11 Jul 02 - 12:37 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 02 - 12:56 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 02 - 03:25 PM
JohnInKansas 11 Jul 02 - 04:57 PM
harpgirl 11 Jul 02 - 05:27 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 02 - 05:34 PM
mack/misophist 11 Jul 02 - 09:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Jul 02 - 10:07 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 11 Jul 02 - 10:26 PM
khandu 11 Jul 02 - 10:39 PM
khandu 11 Jul 02 - 10:44 PM
harpgirl 11 Jul 02 - 11:33 PM
GUEST 12 Jul 02 - 12:00 AM
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Subject: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,Guest: Curious
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 05:58 PM

Here's a question for the computer experts. I got curious (well, nosy, maybe) and looked up an old high school friend on the internet. I found quite a lot of info, in fact, on several pages. I'm not planning to contact her, or use this information in any way, other than to satisfy my own curiosity.

My question is this: Can she tell that it was me, specifically who looked at her web page and other pages with references to her? If not, how much could she tell?

And what about the ethics of doing this at all? Justifiable or no?


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 06:11 PM

No, is the simple answer. After all anybody could have been using your computer.

Click Here to see the type of information that you give out.

It gives clues, but that's about it.

If you are worried use a proxy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 06:26 PM

If you'd like more of an explanation have an analysation done at www.privacy.net.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 06:35 PM

analysation???

Did you just make that word up, Kathleen?


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,Sonja
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 06:59 PM

Guest, it's a close relative of "paralyzation." We had a local talk show host do a whole show after 9-11 on whether the country was going to be subject to that, out of fear.

Thanks for the link to the explanasis, Kat. ¤;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 07:19 PM

What's that on your forehead, Sonja?


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 07:25 PM

samspade.org is a fun toy to mess around with


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 08:09 PM

MUCH appreciated, gargoyle. Phenomenal. I've bookmarked it so I can go back to it when I've got 10-15 hours free to start trying to understand it all.

To make life a little easier, here's that URL from gargoyle as a clickable blue clicky: CLICK!


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 08:20 PM

Analysation puts Kat in erudite company. It is first recorded in print in 1752, and is defined in the OED as "The action of analyzing. Analysis."


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 08:34 PM

Paralyzation is also perfectly good usage (OED). Grant spoke of the paralyzation caused by the underhand tricks played by Queen Elizabeth (I, of course; II doesn't have the power). These words are not much used, but they are accepted by lexicographers.

Katlaughing, your linked site should be "required reading." Amazon is well-known for implanting a cookie in your hard drive. I fear that they may allow (knowingly or unknowingly) its use by others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 08:55 PM

"paralysation" spelt that way isn't a particularly unusual word. The process that leads to the state of paralysis. (Maybe the z spelling would be American)

So presumably "analysation" would be the process that leads to analysis. Except analysis is a process...

I assume that if "they" want to find out what you are doing badly enough "they" can. Scarey. And the process has only just got started. All these smart cards and interactive TVs and so forth and clever fridges and cars are going to get together and keep us all under constant surveillance.And sooner or later the surveillance won't even be by human beings at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 10:17 PM

Let me add one thing, if I may. If you have dsl or cable, you almost certainly have a static ip address. That means the ip address shown in the first link will lead right to you if a whois is run. As the man said, if you're nervous, use a proxy. BUT DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND, if Uncle wants you, he'll probably get you. In that case, encrypt as well and pray you're not European.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 10:22 PM

Echelon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 10:40 PM

Click Here


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 10:55 PM

**if** you have certain software installed, and keep logs, like some chat rooms, etc....you can identify the IP numbers that come to your website, but those IPs are usually difficult to trace to an individual...they usually only suggest what ISP providers (AOL, Earthink, RCN...etc.) were used...on very rare occasions, courts will demand records from an ISP to try to trace child molesters, etc....and, as noted, there are ways to make even that almost impossible.

but, as was stated, most people never have ANY idea who looked at their web site


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: Jacob B
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 09:48 AM

If you log onto a site that has invested in software to track you, can they derive your email address from any of the info they gather?


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 10:24 AM

Thanks, Dicho!!

Oh, and I learned of that site right here at the Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 11:04 AM

Jakob B: I think your e-mail address is safe in that instance. In THAT instance. Face it, privacy is something you have to work at.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 11:41 AM

Misophist dsl or cable, you almost certainly have a static ip address

Try this at different times of the day. On a windows based platform:
Start - Go to Run - type in WINIPCFG - choose release all - choose renew all - Watch your address change.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,Guest: Curious
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 01:50 PM

Thanks all for the information. It was actually not that reassuring, as I'm using a computer at work, and it looks like at least my company name can be determined. (I tried some of the links above.) So if the person knew or could find out where I worked…

There are also other sites I've (completely innocently) gone back to a number of times. (Just topics of interest, such as music, not people of interest). It looks like if you do this too many times with some sites, it sets up a security alert with your IP address.

But this was all very informative. I never assumed I had ultimate privacy, as I figured there was some ways to trace anyone. The question was whether the average individual could and would bother to investigate specific visits to this degree. (I wasn't sure how difficult this was.) Since I can't know this, I will probably be more careful about this is the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: C-flat
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 01:52 PM

Many cable suppliers in the U.K. only provide "roaming" I.P.addresses. They claim it's for security but I suspect it's a lot less expensive than providing every user with a fixed address.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 04:20 PM

Well, if somebody has a website they presumably WANT people to look at it, so I wouldn't think there would be a problem even if they did find out who you were. But I've wondered about this too, whether people can tell if you've been visiting their site and who you are. In some cases I'd rather remain anonymous. It would seem that they could identify the website visitors but they'd have to go to some trouble to do so, so it's unlikely that they would unless there was a very good reason.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: NicoleC
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 05:01 PM

"If you log onto a site that has invested in software to track you, can they derive your email address from any of the info they gather?"

Jacob,

Yes and no. Via cookies, a site can track that it's you in perpetuity or until you delete the cookie... and some sites will leave several. Kill the cookie, and they don't know it's you unless you tell them again.

Generally, unless you specifically give a site your email address at some point (which they will record in your cookie), they can't just figure it out.

BUT: You probably have many cookies on your hard drive. If I wanted to write a particularly malicious web site, I could create a script that mined your hard drive for common cookies, hoping to snag an email address or other personal info. It wouldn't be that difficult and it would be highly effective since you pretty much have to have scripting enabled to surf anywhere on the web now-a-days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 05:55 PM

The logs that I have for my site tell me browser, operating system, IP addresses and where users came from. If its a search engine I get the query as well.

The IP addresses don't give me anything useful but as a webmaster the rest is important.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 06:03 PM

So my log tells me that I clicked on that link at
09 Jul 2002 / 10:52:41 PM
I use Windows 98 and IE4.01
The hostname is webcacheH12a.cache.pol.co.uk
and I clicked from http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=49357&messages=24

Thats about all that a webmaster can find without using a cookie. What the ISP can tell government agencies is another matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 08:37 PM

Some might also find this site interesting; another one I learned about on the Mudcat, I think it was Gargoyle who first posted about it: Anonymizer.com


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:38 AM

Friend Gargoyle,

Thanks for the reminder. Happens that my isp IS consistent with static ip addresses, though. Wonder how that would effect my router?


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:42 AM

I almost forgot. Anonymizer is said to be a VERY reputable outfit that strongly resists fishing expeditions from law enforcement(like the FBI). I have'nt used the service but be warned that it's said to slow things down immensely.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,Sonja
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 10:45 PM

michaelr, (What's that on your forehead, Sonja? ) it's naturally curly hair, just like Frieda in "Peanuts" has.

~SWO~


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 01:37 AM

Mudcat has sometimes blocked anonymizer then again perhaps the MC server was down as it was wont to do over the past twelve months.

There are several DOZEN good free anonymizers. There are also several DOZEN folks that have been busted in the last few months. Carnivor is GOOD! Don't do anything on the web that you don't want your mother reading about in Sunday's newspaper.

Most criminal types will pick up their information through what 2600 Magazine calls "social engineering"///i.e. places like the "MudCat Community" where people perceive themselves as being within a "Safe Environment" and therefore "TRUST Strangers"....TRUST NO ONE - on the web!!!! Never give out personal information. Always use bogus addresses.

Sincerly,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 01:44 AM

Misophist....Keep following the winipcfg protocol.

k When it becomes dynamic again, you will know that the 30, 60 or 90 day court ordered "wire-tap" has been removed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:38 AM

I was referring to the first and bestest Anonymizer, in Finnland, which the FBI managed to shut down with a bogus claim of Kiddy Porn, even though the web master demonstrated to the local authorities that it was set up to reject all images. (Doesn't that make you proud to be an American?)
Guest: Sorry to do this to you, but in three years, I've had TWO ip addresses. ONLY TWO. It was changed when they put in a new gateway in my city. Configuration for static and dynamic addresses IS different, you know. No dial-up, for one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:41 AM

GUEST,Guest: Curious
If her name was Tracey or Tracy it is too late. SHE KNOWS


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:03 PM

Tracey with a first name of Richard?


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:10 PM

There is a lot of misinformation about computing and the internet WWW Some of it is just wind-up and some is obviously downright lies.

One if the little known facts about PC's (doesn't apply to NON PC acrchitecture computers) is that in every processor made since 1983 there is a routine that analyses your local phone number via any connected modem and then records all calls and conversations made from this phone and sends them to the Pentagon and MI5 for further analysis. This same routine leaves your name and number on any website you visit.

Hard to believe isn't it?

Spot (the techie) dog


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:13 PM

B.S.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:18 PM

Dear Macchiata,

If you believe the Pentagon and MI5 share, regularly, I have a bridge for sale.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:37 PM

No It's True...Honestly! Just like that little green light on the monitor...everyone in the business knows it's a camera!!!

Spot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:56 PM

Guest, by any other name, is still Max to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 03:25 PM

To educate yourself about internet privacy, go to the grandaddy of all the sites for consumer information, EPIC, found here:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/tools.html#surf


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:57 PM

The discussion so far has been mostly on what an "ordinary" site can tell about people who visit. For the most part, the information you leave in your wake is fairly trivial. The typical cookie probably can contain information that could be "extracted" by a malicious site that most people would consider "invasive," but it requires malicious intent for a site to read other sites' cookies.

The "AdAware" program that has been mentioned in several similar threads purports to "clean your machine" of certain "nosy" cookies that are purported to allow businesses to track "surfing habits" of individual users; although it is not clear whether these cookies identify you (when used as they're supposed to be), or whether they merely say that some particular individual looked at some sites that may be related

The contention is that these "spy" cookies (doubleclick is a prime example) keep track, in the cookie, of all sites you visit, so that (for example) a "doubleclick site" can tell where you've been recently.

I haven't made any serious investigation of what's in a "doubleclick" cookie, and I suspect that it's nothing "too personal," but I do take offense to their assumption that they have a right to follow me around without asking my permission. This should be called "stalking" in any criminal court in the country, IMHO.

There is a third "level" of true "spyware," which can record "very personal information," down to "screen shots" of what you look at and individual keystrokes that you type. These programs generally require deliberate installation on your machine, and in theory are used "only by persons like network administrators with a legitimate right to track your activities - or parents who want to keep track of their childrens' surfing." (Wanna buy some lakefront property in Arizona?)

An article in the July 2002 PC Magaxine, titled "Look Out: Under surveillance or undercover, you need to know ..." that gives some information on legal? programs of this kind. I haven't looked, but the article should be up at www.pcmag.com. (No link because this is a rather "messy" site, and you do need to sign in and give them an email addy to be able to get around on the site. I consider them "trustworthy - at arms length," and there is good info there.)

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 05:27 PM

...and remember, if you use a screen name here, type it in on Google and watch all your posts come up. Then you'll think twice about the sensibilities of using "Guest".


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 05:34 PM

Exactly, Harpgirl...


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 09:42 PM

John in Kansas: I have seen convincing proof that outfits like doubleclick indeed try to follow all your surfing. Because they sell the information to market analysts. I allow one ad program on my machine and even that one traces me (they think) to sell my advertising space to the best source. What pisses me off is that the info is worth money and they just steal it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:07 PM

"If you use a screen name here, type it in on Google and watch all your posts come up."

Oh no it doesn't. I just tried. Assuming "screen name" means the name we have at the top of our posts. (Of course if you click on your name at the head of a post all your previous posts come up, if you wait long enough. The recording angel never sleeps. Fair enough. )

(If you click on GUEST all the previous GUEST posts come up as well, and a skim through that explains a few things about attitudes towards those who choose not to use any pseudonym when they come in as a guest.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:26 PM

You would be SURPRISED at the window Google leaves open. Its responce is so fast because it continues to reside in the background.

Let me think awhile....the DOS window command will come to mind soon...let see...winstat? statwin? netstat? help me out here....I'll consult my notes after a few tunes.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

ZoneAlarm - free version
combined with SamSpade.org - free version
will provide you with a worldwide conception of all the TCP FTP PING and printer-port-probes that occur on YOUR machine in 24 hours, Moscow, Korea, China, Sweden, Germany, Massachusett, Boise, Franklin Middle School.


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: khandu
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:39 PM

I typed "khandu" in Google. My Mudcat Photo was there, as was the listing of all post from "guest khandu". However, my "khandu" postings were not in the search. Puzzling.

khandu


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: khandu
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:44 PM

After my last post, I re-tried Google with another of my aliases, but I mistyped and type "goggle" instead and was taken to a site which was amazingly appropos to this thread.

Here it is.

khandu


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:33 PM

...oh yeah McGrath, yours just goes directly to your picture. Haven't you noticed that the listings are constantly changing? Do it a few more times. You'll get to your postings sooner or later. BillD thought I was wrong, as well. I'm not.

harpgirl (all over the web just like McGrath of Harlow)


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Subject: RE: BS: Surfing: Can you be personally traced?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:00 AM

Max is in the data mining business, why not ask him about it Guest Curious?


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