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Help! Open Stage and C**p performers

Scoville 28 Feb 07 - 02:57 PM
GUEST 28 Feb 07 - 02:42 PM
Janice in NJ 27 Feb 07 - 10:01 PM
GUEST 27 Feb 07 - 09:37 PM
Stewart 27 Feb 07 - 06:09 PM
Girl Friday 27 Feb 07 - 05:49 PM
Tim theTwangler 27 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM
Jim Lad 27 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM
Scrump 27 Feb 07 - 12:05 PM
Bernard 27 Feb 07 - 12:02 PM
Scrump 27 Feb 07 - 11:57 AM
Scrump 27 Feb 07 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,HW 27 Feb 07 - 11:34 AM
Tim theTwangler 27 Feb 07 - 09:29 AM
GUEST,Neovo 27 Feb 07 - 08:13 AM
Scrump 27 Feb 07 - 08:00 AM
Jim Lad 26 Feb 07 - 10:13 PM
Stewart 26 Feb 07 - 10:05 PM
Janie 26 Feb 07 - 09:40 PM
GUEST,dax 26 Feb 07 - 07:19 PM
Jim Lad 26 Feb 07 - 07:11 PM
LukeKellylives (Chris) 26 Feb 07 - 06:39 PM
Jim Lad 26 Feb 07 - 02:57 PM
catspaw49 26 Feb 07 - 02:21 PM
Tim theTwangler 26 Feb 07 - 01:36 PM
Leadfingers 26 Feb 07 - 12:49 PM
The Villan 26 Feb 07 - 12:44 PM
treewind 26 Feb 07 - 12:35 PM
Scoville 26 Feb 07 - 11:24 AM
Big Al Whittle 26 Feb 07 - 11:15 AM
Bernard 26 Feb 07 - 11:11 AM
Midchuck 26 Feb 07 - 11:03 AM
leeneia 26 Feb 07 - 10:53 AM
Jack Campin 26 Feb 07 - 07:27 AM
jonm 26 Feb 07 - 06:45 AM
the lemonade lady 26 Feb 07 - 05:29 AM
Nemesis 09 Jul 02 - 11:42 AM
wysiwyg 09 Jul 02 - 08:57 AM
HuwG 09 Jul 02 - 08:25 AM
Dave Bryant 09 Jul 02 - 05:37 AM
Nemesis 08 Jul 02 - 07:51 PM
GUEST,Peter from Essex 08 Jul 02 - 05:09 PM
Nemesis 08 Jul 02 - 03:09 PM
Hawker 08 Jul 02 - 03:05 PM
Genie 08 Jul 02 - 12:41 PM
SharonA 08 Jul 02 - 12:22 PM
SharonA 08 Jul 02 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,Sonja 08 Jul 02 - 11:38 AM
Dave Bryant 08 Jul 02 - 10:18 AM
wysiwyg 07 Jul 02 - 10:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scoville
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 02:57 PM

Amen, HW. Thanks. Everybody has to start somewhere.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 02:42 PM

What is all the fuss about? If you can't live with the quality of whoever shows up, don't hold open mics. Open mics do give new performers a chance to develop their skills, and give seasoned performers the chance to try out new material and new styles, and once in a while you find an unexpected gem at an open mic. So there are many good reasons to have them. But if you would rather not put up with the few really terrible performers and with the masses of mediocre performers, then don't have them. That's an easy solution to this problem.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:01 PM

Thank you GUEST HW for your comments. They are both well stated and true.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:37 PM

Any club where they give the emcee or bartender a small gong to use in case of true emergency?


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Stewart
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 06:09 PM

This reminds me of an open mic several years ago. A young fellow was up flailing away at his guitar unmercifully and hollering at the top of his voice. It was BAD, and I moved to the back of the room to get as far away from the noise as possible. I then turned and rolled my eyes at my friend Jim, one of the long-time open mic regulars. Jim then said,"you know, this is an open mic and we have to give everyone a chance." With that remark, I knew he was right. Fortunately a string snapped and put the guitar player and everyone else out the their misery. I think another open mic regular talked to him in a nice way, suggesting how he might improve. But then he never came back. So that's how it goes sometimes.

We have another singer who's so bad that he's developed a sort of cult following, and always gets a big round of applause. But then we have some great performers and everything in between. That makes the open mic interesting. We have a great community of musicians that really care about the music and helping new performers. And a great listening audience. The only downside is that we're too popular and most times it's just a one-song night.

I can't think of a better way to get involved in the music. The more participants the better.

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Girl Friday
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 05:49 PM

I've read most of the postings on this thread. Yes, thank heavens the voice of reason has surfaced. May I come in on a few points here... My Club would not survive if everyone who plays didn't pay!
Not everyone is top quality - they'd be playing elsewhere if they were, and getting paid for it.
We have a guy- he's only allowed to sing on singer's nights. He's so bad he's become a cult figure.
My duo TDL are often thought c**p, but we too are a cult, and are constantly surprised when our songs go down well. We were interviewed on local radio today, because they had heard about us.
These open mic/ singers nights are just that. You never know who may turn up, and good, bad, or indifferent, they all deserve a hearing without the organiser's ego getting in the way.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM

I only been doing this about three years.
All the people I hear who are great with the instruments they play
Seem to have at least twenty years of experience under their belts.
The majority of them are helpful and will find something kind to say after the latest disaster and are well worth listening too.
I do not however expect them to stop enjoying their evening out to wet nurse me through my trauma and if you do keep bothering someone who is initialy pleasent and helpful you may find that their attitude cools somewhat the more of their time you take up.
I have noticed that the more I play in public places the more I come to realise that the performers I look up to and admire make mistakes of their own.
I would hate to be one of those really good performers who have no time or patience with the begginers of this world who then step up to the mike and errrrrr are less than the perfection they believe themselves to be.
SOrry going of topic will bugger of now gotta singaround to go to.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM

Scrump: I think a few of us have tried breathing a little tolerance into this thread. Thanks for joining in.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:05 PM

Why, is there only one of us then Bernard? :-)


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Bernard
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:02 PM

Erm... what's with this 'we' all of a sudden?!!

;o)


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:57 AM

There have been a lot of scathing comments in this thread about 'crap' performers.

This seems insulting - if someone who happened to be better than you described you as 'crap', I daresay you might be offended.

I would never dream of describing some of the poor performers at the sessions I go to as 'crap'. Even though some of them aren't very good, at least they have a go and can be entertaining in their own way.

Shouldn't we brilliant performers show them more tolerance?


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:51 AM

I have almost no experience singing through a mic or PA. Have been told I ought to sign up for some open mic nights to get the experience and the feedback.

If you do get feedback, try moving the mic away from the speakers :-)


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST,HW
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:34 AM

OK - a few points that I'd like to make about my view on the subject. They are only my views, of course and I'm not trying to criticise anyone else's perspective but ...

1. 'Open mike' (or 'singers night' as it would more usually be known amongst the British folk venues) means anyone can have a go. People attending know that, or if they don't, then they should be informed. Therefore as audience members they are expecting to take the good with the bad.

2. People's opinion of what is awful varies. Me - I can't stand flash guitarists who concentrate on their playing at the expense of the sense/words/projection of the song. But I can happily listen to any number of unaccompanied ballads sung by people who may not hold a tune great, or structure their breathing perfectly, but who can nonetheless convey the soul of the song and their love of it. (I'm in a minority, and I know it, but it makes a point!)

3. As has been pointed out, everyone has to learn. Doesn't matter how much you practice at home, it's fundamentally different performing to an audience, and No-one will get it right first (or third or twentieth) time. I can afford to look sympathetically on beginners cos I've been there myself. And so can almost everyone I talk to.

4. I've seen some of our most revered performers have a dreadful time. Sometimes it's caused by nerves that you spend a lifetime fighting, sometimes there are outside influences distracting you. Sometimes it's just plain goblins at work. If it can happen to them it can happen to us, too.

5. These evenings don't often occur in isolation. They are generally a regular event with at least a core of regular attendees. That means that a particular person's stage performance is only a part of what they contribute. I don't expect my friends to attain some pre-specified standard in any skill before they can be my friends. I like them for who they are. And any organisers who are worried about the standard of performers might remember that the other club members may not be expecting to be amazed ... they might just enjoy each others company.

6. Sometimes 'crap' perfomers astound you and come out with a real gem. I've seen it happen and it's given me more pleasure than yet another beautiful rendition from the best singer in the room every time!

7. If you don't like the prospect of potentially having to hear less than perfect performances, then don't go to an 'open mike'. Go to a concert instead. But don't deny the people who enjoy the format the opportunity to do so. And allow that the people who return to the 'Open Mike' may not share your aversion to the differing standards they find there.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:29 AM

Glad I saw this. I have almost no experience singing through a mic or PA. Have been told I ought to sign up for some open mic nights to get the experience and the feedback. After reading through the majority of these posts, I now know not to do it.

Sheesh.

Janie
Dont you dare give up without trying.
If is your first time prepare well as you can.
When you get on the stage dont be rushed but be tuned up and ready to roll.
Say hello and see how it goes.
Even the experts on hear wouldnt lynch a girl on her forst attemt.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST,Neovo
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:13 AM

Dax is right about newcomers starting out who should be encouraged and nurtured but there are people around who have been c**p for forty years and never seem to get any better. The heart sinks when you see them walk in!


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:00 AM

The only 'good' thing about crap performers getting spots is that it CAN encourage some one else to 'Have a Go' !

For a moment there I thought you were talking about teenagers with acne, Leadfingers :-)

But actually, you make a valid point. Usually the first time I go anywhere new (session, etc.) I feel a bit apprehensive about what sort of standard the 'regulars' are, in case they're all brilliant and much better than me. If they were, I might be a bit scared of performing in front of them.

But usually what happens is that there are some people who aren't really that good, which gives me confidence that I'll be accepted OK.

From that point of view, I guess it's good that there are people around who aren't very good but don't realise it, or maybe they just don't care what other people think.

But letting these people perform a floor spot is a different issue - they shouldn't, IMO.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 10:13 PM

Well said, Stewart:
                   People have a tendency to say things here that they wouldn't dare say at a performance. They're just venting and I'm sure even the scariest folks here would be ever so polite at an open mike. Particularly if you appeared nervous. I really like the idea of folks learning how to use a P.A. Makes a lot of sense to me.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Stewart
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 10:05 PM

Janie - I don't know where you are, but I don't think you should give up on open mics, not yet at least. Victory Music, a non-profit acoustic musician's association in the Seattle/Tacoma area of Washington State runs several open mics in the area. As the term implies, they are open to anyone. One of the most satisfying things is to see people improve through this experience, from very scared amateurs to become very professional level performers. This is the way to do it.

We are a very friendly and encouraging group of musicians, and our open mics are characterized by having good listening audiences. In addition, the contacts with other musicians can be very helpful in developing performance skills and later in getting gigs.

Oh yes, we have had our share of truely awful performers, but they don't usually stay around, even though we try to treat everyone well. We have a good community of people who are very encouraging and helpful.

So give it a try.

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Janie
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 09:40 PM

Glad I saw this. I have almost no experience singing through a mic or PA. Have been told I ought to sign up for some open mic nights to get the experience and the feedback. After reading through the majority of these posts, I now know not to do it.

Sheesh.

Janie


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST,dax
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:19 PM

I can't believe some of the postings on this thread! We all have to start somewhere and most are scared shitless at the time. We can't help but sound like crap at first. With encouragement most will improve as they gain confidence, but if some asshole shoots them down they will probably just give up. Folksongs by their very name are songs of the people and the roots of the music is neither professional nor polished. Much traditional music has been preserved over the years by people singing for the love of song. Today it seems more motivated by greed and and over inflated egos.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:11 PM

Oh, I think we'd have guessed that.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: LukeKellylives (Chris)
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 06:39 PM

I have problems with stage fright if I'm in front of someone that's hearing me for the first time. I've been called above average, but I can't get over thinking that I'm just...crap. Then again, I have low self-esteem when it comes to music. :/


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:57 PM

Tim theTwangler: Excellent post. I cut my teeth on the coffee house scene. People were very good to me and I'll never forget that.
Most clubs I've attended start the night with an open stage and the "Feature" takes over after the break. I've gone home after the third song of some feature performers but have never walked out during the opening acts unless it was time to tune up.
I just love to watch people, early in their careers and track their progress through the years. There will always be some who disappoint me but I don't think they should be besmirched for not living up to my expectations. As for thinking they're better than they are .... hmmm!
Guilty, Your Honour. (aren't we all?)


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:21 PM

Just put up a sign that says you don't take no fish of any sort, carp or otherwise. That oughta' do it.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 01:36 PM

Hi started singing and playing about three years ago here in the UK
I was lucky enough to find a local pub The Tap and Spile in Grimsby.
Here there is a monthly open mike and the landlord pays for avery proffesional sound guy to make us all sound the best we can.
I have sat through some prety rough performances and I have given worse ones.
I have seen some of the best players/singers around here crash and burn.
But this is one of the finest most helpful and encouraging bunch of people you could ever hope to meet.
I have also been lucky enough to be allowed to play at the recently renamed Faldingworth LIve.
Again great bunch of supportive and generous folks.
But the people at Faldingworth pay to get in.
It is a concert style club. most of the people attending travel a fair old way to get there(For the UK).
So the guy that runs it has to maintain a higher standard and (apart from me) he does that very well.
Think you gotta decide which you want your event to be and what you need to acheive.
Then take the plunge and go for the one or the other.
I do realise how lucky I have been falling in with peopel who care enough about music and their fellow human beings to give generously of their time and experience.
I hope that it is the same all over the world because it is a great way to make sure we keep music live.
Cheers Tim


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 12:49 PM

The only 'good' thing about crap performers getting spots is that it CAN encourage some one else to 'Have a Go' !


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: The Villan
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 12:44 PM

>>the gurgling of phlegm<<
leeneia
Could that have been applied to Joe Cocker, one of my favourite singers.

Or was Joe gurgling with grit and phlegm.

Nothing wrong with modern music, just like all eras, some good some bad.
I think you may have grown old and not moved with the times.

A young 62 year old :-) Most listened program on the radio for me - Radio1. Bring on the changes.

To think my father used to be just the same as you - whinging about modern music wasy back in 1956. By the time he was 60 we had converted him LOL


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: treewind
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 12:35 PM

Jack:
He *knows* he's not very good, he puts a lot of effort into it

Nail hit firmly on the head, especially the bit about putting effort into it.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Scoville
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 11:24 AM

One of our local venues has singer/songwriter night, in which several promising local acts play half-hour or so sets (depends on how many of them are scheduled). Sort of a step above open mic. I think they sometimes do semi-open mic--meaning that the performer has to contact them ahead of time and probably has to either play fo them first or submit a recording--with very shorts sets as an opener, and then if there is a good response, they might eventually make it to the longer set as a featured artist.

Requires more work but keeps the bar at a reasonable level.

If you really want a true open mic, though, I hate to see the institution bashed so badly. Open mic was invaluable for getting me over a crippling case of stage fright and learning not to talk too much, to talk into the mic, etc. But people do need input--it's dangerous if you let them go on forever in abject crappiness.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 11:15 AM

gurgling with phlegm.........great name for a band!


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 11:11 AM

My pet hate is the performer who hasn't learned the songs, relies on reading the words from a book and rummages through the book when it's their turn to sing! Oh, and once they've deicded what to sing, they can't remember the tune...

Aaaaargh!


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Midchuck
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 11:03 AM

In fact, a person thirty years old has heard very little good singing unless her family took her to church or to classical performances.

I don't fully agree. A person can hear what I consider to be good singing from good folk, old-fashioned pop, or even older country, or bluegrass, performers.

Wretched singing has become standard. When I shop or eat out I am forced to listen to some of the ugliest sounds I have ever heard - singing out of tune, singing through the nose, the gurgling of phlegm, shrieking, wailing. Many people today think that's what singing is.

That part, I do agree with.

Peter


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 10:53 AM

"Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: John P - PM
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 08:39 AM

Guest Quandary, you said:
"Why, oh why, is it in the 'folkish' world we inhabit - is it okay to sing and perform appallingly...Would any other profession put up with dismal or nonexistent standards?"

Of course! In fact, a person thirty years old has heard very little good singing unless her family took her to church or to classical performances. Wretched singing has become standard. When I shop or eat out I am forced to listen to some of the ugliest sounds I have ever heard - singing out of tune, singing through the nose, the gurgling of phlegm, shrieking, wailing. Many people today think that's what singing is.

As for open mic, I can stand anything if they are only going to sing one song.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:27 AM

I'm amazed that everybody on this thread thinks *beginners* are the problem. Round here it's usually people who might have been good 30 years ago but have lost their voice, memory for the lyrics, taste and sensitivity to other people before almost all the current club-goers joined. You can't tell them anything.

In contrast, there is one really crap instrumentalist I often encounter who really *is* a beginner (and has been that way for 10 years) but seems much less problematic. He *knows* he's not very good, he puts a lot of effort into it, and he keeps his spots short and to the point. Everybody I know likes him.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: jonm
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 06:45 AM

Apart from the thought of having one night in six or so as a "new talent" night for people who have never performed at the club to try out and get some constructive feedback, I wonder whether there's an opportunity for new technology here.

It may be possible to hook up a cheap digital recorder to the PA and create an MP3 of each performance, which can then be given to the performer - on a USB pen, or via email etc. etc. They feel they are getting something for their money and also have an opportunity to hear what they really sound like!


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 05:29 AM

just trawling thru my old 'traces' and found this. Quite amuzing.

Sal


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Nemesis
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 11:42 AM

Thanks Susan!

If I'm going to hang around here I'd better learn these things *G*!

Actually - it's the last bit that I think is OTT - scrubbing that for Draft 2 :)


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 08:57 AM

Hille, I've taken the liberty of re-running your guidelines with some line breaks added.

~Susan

=================================================

DRAFT Performers' Guidelines

The team of people involved in organising the club work extremely hard and are committed to providing a worthwhile, sustainable, venue for performers and audience alike. These notes are intended to clarify any misunderstandings and misconceptions.

----------------------------------------------

General Information

1) PA – The Sound Engineer volunteers for and does a commendably good and dedicated job in addition to supplying the PA equipment. He is a reasonable person, albeit pressurised during performances.

So - if you have sound-problem issues:
· Arrive promptly before the Club starts (8pm) to speak to SE to sort them out before you perform. (See notes on PA technical specs).
· You always have the option of performing without PA.

2) Entry fees on non-guest nights:
· #2 to pre-booked performers
· #2 to audience including performers' supporters and fan club, etc.

3) The club aims to make a profit: with profits to be ploughed back into the club - to provide a quality venue and good reputation for performance – and to put on festival events together with the town arts group – which includes your act.

4) Entry fees go towards running costs of the club, including advertising, photocopying, office materials, etc. Donated for free to the club are huge amounts of telephone costs, time arranging free publicity, petrol, and hard work trudging around putting up posters; visiting, supporting and co-operating with other local clubs.

----------------------------

The Club believes in cross-Club co-operation and collaboration in order to promote live music, in particular, and performing arts in general - including your act.

***************************

Do you want to support a healthy venue for live performances - with a sympathetic, music- loving and loyal audience and the support of other musicians? Then please respect these:

Performers' Guidelines:

1) Pre-book a spot
· Whenever possible
· Not pre-booking means a spot cannot be guaranteed. Pre-booking facilitates the smooth running of floor spots including yours.

2) Not pre-booked?
· Arrive by 7.45pm and you can be put on the Reserve List. (First come basis)

3) Late arrival can mean losing a spot

4) Advance notice of late arrival
· Can be accommodated.
· But not to performers who consistently contrive to turn up late to perform late. Strong opening acts have as much impact as strong closing acts.

5) Prioritising
· Pre-booked Performers will be prioritised.
· Prompt arrival performers - will be prioritised. (Prompt means by 8pm)

6) Amateur status does not mean amateur standards:
· A floor spot comprises 15 minutes of rehearsed material.
· Instruments should be tuned and, by and large, ready ' to go'
· Liase before performing with S.E. (Sound) to agree your sound.
· If time allows, encores may be solicited - performers will need other rehearsed material available.
· Stunning, shocking or deafening audiences into silence with an act – does not always equal a good act or one that they might return to see.

7) Respect other performances:
· Performers and audience travel considerable distances to the Club – performers/ audience will not come or return to a club where loud, drunken, talking disrupts acts that they have paid, to hear, or perform.
· First-time audience/performers - may not come back
· Regular audience/performers - may stop coming
· With no performers and no audience – there is no club.
· If you positively want the club – then support the club positively.

----------------------------------------------------

Performers' Guidelines are intended to make the Club enjoyable and run smoothly for all. Performers, their friends and audience members, who consistently and selfishly flout them, to the detriment of everyone's wellbeing – WILL BE EXPECTED TO LEAVE.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: HuwG
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 08:25 AM

It usually takes three people to drag me on stage; and as for time limits, I generally need separate times for my voice and my guitar.

However, there's nothing like friends to cheer me up afterwards.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 05:37 AM

I usually do give a time limit, but you can't really cut a singer off in mid song - although I have curtailed a couple of very dire performances. I can remember on one occasion, it took three of us to drag a singer(?) off - to huge cheers from the audience. Strangely enough the chap turned up the following week and wanted another spot.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Nemesis
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 07:51 PM

Thanks, Pete - hum! Yes, 'heaviness' especially to new performers or regulars who are already towing the line - I think as much as anything it has helped to get my thoughts clarified as to what we should be doing - Maybe I should cut out the last paragraph - does sound a bit threatening! (Altho' expecting people 'to leave' was far less radical than what I was contemplating doing to at least 5 people last club night :) !


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 05:09 PM

Sounds a but heavy put down like that but its no more than what any well run club should be doing. If the public pay to come in then they deserve no less.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Nemesis
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 03:09 PM

Hi,

Thank you all for the welcome - it's positively nice to be here.

These are the DRAFT guidelines I've come up with. Please note they are draft only and apply to the circumstances our club is grappling with. If I issue them I'd point out to folks that they are not intended to be 'heavy' just trying to ensure everyone knows where they stand and also what they can expect (to encounter) and also to get in return. ----------- DRAFT Performers' Guidelines

The team of people involved in organising the club work extremely hard and are committed to providing a worthwhile, sustainable, venue for performers and audience alike. These notes are intended to clarify any misunderstandings and misconceptions. ---------------------------------------------- General Information 1) PA – The Sound Engineer volunteers for and does a commendably good and dedicated job in addition to supplying the PA equipment. He is a reasonable person, albeit pressurised during performances. So - if you have sound-problem issues: · Arrive promptly before the Club starts (8pm) to speak to SE to sort them out before you perform. (See notes on PA technical specs). · You always have the option of performing without PA.

2) Entry fees on non-guest nights: · #2 to pre-booked performers · #2 to audience including performers' supporters and fan club, etc.

3) The club aims to make a profit: with profits to be ploughed back into the club - to provide a quality venue and good reputation for performance – and to put on festival events together with the town arts group – which includes your act.

4) Entry fees go towards running costs of the club, including advertising, photocopying, office materials, etc. Donated for free to the club are huge amounts of telephone costs, time arranging free publicity, petrol, and hard work trudging around putting up posters; visiting, supporting and co-operating with other local clubs. ---------------------------- The Club believes in cross-Club co-operation and collaboration in order to promote live music, in particular, and performing arts in general - including your act. *************************** Do you want to support a healthy venue for live performances - with a sympathetic, music- loving and loyal audience and the support of other musicians? Then please respect these: Performers' Guidelines: 1) Pre-book a spot · Whenever possible · Not pre-booking means a spot cannot be guaranteed. Pre-booking facilitates the smooth running of floor spots including yours. 2) Not pre-booked? · Arrive by 7.45pm and you can be put on the Reserve List. (First come basis) 3) Late arrival can mean losing a spot 4) Advance notice of late arrival · Can be accommodated. · But not to performers who consistently contrive to turn up late to perform late. Strong opening acts have as much impact as strong closing acts. 5) Prioritising · Pre-booked Performers will be prioritised. · Prompt arrival performers - will be prioritised. (Prompt means by 8pm) 6) Amateur status does not mean amateur standards: · A floor spot comprises 15 minutes of rehearsed material. · Instruments should be tuned and, by and large, ready ' to go' · Liase before performing with S.E. (Sound) to agree your sound. · If time allows, encores may be solicited - performers will need other rehearsed material available. · Stunning, shocking or deafening audiences into silence with an act – does not always equal a good act or one that they might return to see. 7) Respect other performances: · Performers and audience travel considerable distances to the Club – performers/ audience will not come or return to a club where loud, drunken, talking disrupts acts that they have paid, to hear, or perform. · First-time audience/performers - may not come back · Regular audience/performers - may stop coming · With no performers and no audience – there is no club. · If you positively want the club – then support the club positively. ---------------------------------------------------- Performers' Guidelines are intended to make the Club enjoyable and run smoothly for all. Performers, their friends and audience members, who consistently and selfishly flout them, to the detriment of everyone's wellbeing – WILL BE EXPECTED TO LEAVE.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Hawker
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 03:05 PM

When I was 16 my then boyfriend sent me some poetry when he had been grounded for playing truant, most poems were soppy love peotry, but there was one that I will never forget, though the sands of time may have altered the wording slightly and the author I have no idea about, but I often think about it at open mike torture sessions:

There was a man with a tongue of wood
Who loved to sing
In truth, it was lamentable.....
But there was one who heard
The clip clatter of the tongue of wood
And knew what the singer wished to sing
With that, the singer was content

It helps me a little..... but it there are many wooden tongues.........AAAAaaarghhh!!!!!! Cheers, Lucy


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 12:41 PM

Yeah, Q, bienvenu au Mudcat!


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: SharonA
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 12:22 PM

By the way, the open mike nights I've hosted have all been at coffeehouses – no BYOB – and I've run into most of the problems mentioned on this thread. So the problems aren't all alcohol-fueled by any means!

And Quandary, let me also welcome you to the asylum Mudcat!!


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: SharonA
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 12:03 PM

Then there are the performers who try to "get around" the 2-song or 3-song limit by playing medleys!! (This is where the time limit comes in handy!)


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: GUEST,Sonja
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 11:38 AM

On the other hand, Dave, if it's "three songs or 10 minutes," a performer shouldn't have to quit after 3 minutes if s/he wants to throw in 3 "quickies" (e.g., the Smothers Brothers' versions of "Hangman," "Blood On The Saddle," and "Streets Of Laredo"). Personally, I prefer to have a time slot specified and have the emcee give a finger signal when I have, say, 3 min. left. [As long as they don't signal you that way when you have ONE minute left. ;) ] Some judgment is called for, of course. If you finish a song at the ninth minute, you don't do another one unless you can finish it in about 30 sec.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 10:18 AM

One bit of advice - when you give a performer a specific number of songs do make them understand that PART of a song counts as a song. There's been many occasions where I've heard a singer forget the words over halfway through a song and then start a new one - they often seem to think that they can keep going until they actually manage to complete one !

When I ran a Folk Club, I would only give any unknown floorspot performer(s) one song to start with. If they were up to scratch they got more.

There are usually many sessions where less-talented or inexperienced performers can improve their skills - we all had to start somewhere, but if you are charging an admission fee or receiving payment for the entertainment, then you must set a minimum standard.


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Subject: RE: Help! Open Stage and C**p performers
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jul 02 - 10:09 PM

Q, I'd love to see your guidelines posted.

Welcome to Mudcat!

~Susan


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