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BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare

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McGrath of Harlow 08 Jun 02 - 07:27 PM
ard mhacha 08 Jun 02 - 05:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Jun 02 - 02:54 PM
alanabit 08 Jun 02 - 01:35 PM
ard mhacha 08 Jun 02 - 12:20 PM
alanabit 07 Jun 02 - 05:36 PM
donal 07 Jun 02 - 12:07 PM
Wolfgang 07 Jun 02 - 10:52 AM
ard mhacha 07 Jun 02 - 10:02 AM
Wolfgang 07 Jun 02 - 08:06 AM
Declan 07 Jun 02 - 07:18 AM
donal 07 Jun 02 - 07:07 AM
Nigel Parsons 07 Jun 02 - 07:04 AM
GUEST 07 Jun 02 - 06:50 AM
donal 07 Jun 02 - 06:44 AM
Big Tim 07 Jun 02 - 06:28 AM
GUEST,Fred 07 Jun 02 - 06:28 AM
Nigel Parsons 07 Jun 02 - 06:11 AM
Escamillo 06 Jun 02 - 09:59 PM
ard mhacha 06 Jun 02 - 01:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jun 02 - 10:47 AM
GUEST,Mikey joe 06 Jun 02 - 10:20 AM
Paddy Plastique 06 Jun 02 - 10:14 AM
Nigel Parsons 06 Jun 02 - 10:07 AM
Bullfrog Jones 06 Jun 02 - 08:35 AM
Wolfgang 06 Jun 02 - 08:17 AM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 06 Jun 02 - 07:16 AM
Declan 06 Jun 02 - 07:05 AM
donal 06 Jun 02 - 06:53 AM
Wolfgang 06 Jun 02 - 06:39 AM
Bullfrog Jones 06 Jun 02 - 06:32 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jun 02 - 05:44 AM
Wolfgang 06 Jun 02 - 05:43 AM
Bullfrog Jones 06 Jun 02 - 04:17 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jun 02 - 02:33 PM
GUEST,Den at work 05 Jun 02 - 02:05 PM
Wolfgang 05 Jun 02 - 01:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jun 02 - 01:31 PM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 05 Jun 02 - 01:21 PM
Bullfrog Jones 05 Jun 02 - 01:07 PM
The Hiker 05 Jun 02 - 12:50 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jun 02 - 12:06 PM
IanC 05 Jun 02 - 11:59 AM
donal 05 Jun 02 - 11:52 AM
Declan 05 Jun 02 - 11:42 AM
Paddy Plastique 05 Jun 02 - 11:28 AM
IanC 05 Jun 02 - 11:04 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 05 Jun 02 - 10:27 AM
Airto 05 Jun 02 - 10:25 AM
Airto 05 Jun 02 - 10:21 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 07:27 PM

I've started that part 2 yet BS: Irelands World Cup Part 2


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 05:13 PM

Wrong McGrath, the Irish team have shown consistency over the last ten years and in no way can you state that population dosen`t matter. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 02:54 PM

The crucial thing isn't so much the population of the country, or even the number of people who play football. Otherwise the USA wouldn't count as underdogs. It's whether there are enough people playing football regularly in top level teams against other top level teams.

That's where Irish footballers win out and the Americans don't as yet.

Maybe someone start a part II of this thread, since Ireland's still very much in the competition.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 01:35 PM

They do very well indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 12:20 PM

Consider sometimes when referring to the Irish team the the population of R O Ireland around the 5 million mark, dear old England and Germany have well over 10 times more people. Also the the bulk of the players are from Dublin, with Cork also supplying the odd player [that is when the odd player decides to play]. And taking a leaf from Englands book we throw in the odd exile. Please don`t ask me to elaborate, I have a long memory of England in all sports playing all and sundry, how about a Russian Prince Oblensky scoring a try against Scotland at Twickenham, and so on. So the oul Irish Granny rule is no harm. So taken all this into account, dont the Irish do well. Ard Mhacha


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 05:36 PM

This is one of the less impressive German sides which I have seen over the years. It's not bad, but it does not look like a heavyweight contender for the World Cup. However, it is rated above England - and because of that -got put in what FIFA considered a more "appropriate" group. Now that England have had a good result against Argentina and - I think - narrowly avoided defeat in München last September - I wonder what the next lot of rankings will show. Mind you, I think I have to go back over fifteen years to recall an England win against Ireland. It was some time ago, wasn't it? Are Ireland above us too?


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 12:07 PM

jeeez..Wolfgang.....u got my head spinning there man!

D


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 10:52 AM

Surprises galore are to be expected in a championship with lots of teams having comparable strength. I've read it today in my newspaper about Germany, but it could have been said about the majority of the teams at the world cup:

"Middle class (among the last 32, of course, is meant). Good enough to beat most of the other teams on one day, bad enough to lose to most of them on the other. Only against the best couple of the teams or against the worst couple of the teams a positive or, respectively, a negative outcome would be a real surprise."

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 10:02 AM

Larrson in great form for Sweden who ran out deserved winners, and England had courage, a trait sadly lacking in a poor Argentine team. The TV pundits are having to eat their words in this World Cup, surprises galore in a great competition. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 08:06 AM

Speaking about lotteries in football world cups preliminary rounds and Ireland it should be mentioned that Ireland has already been lucky once winning second place (instead of third place) with the lot deciding against the Netherlands (they must have an Ireland complex by now). Ireland then played Rumania and went on to the quarter finals, the Netherlands played and lost against later champion Germany. I'm speaking about 1990 by the way.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 07:18 AM

Ireland need to win by (at least) two clear goals to be sure (to be sure).

A high scoring draw in the Germany Cameroon match would see us going out on a 1-0 scoreline because we would only have 3 goals for. (at least I think thats what (c) above means.

But most importantly we have to beat the Saudis - anything less and we're out.

Next match (if we qualify) will be against Spain who looked pretty awesome in their first two games. They may be a bit suspect at the back, but then again who are we to talk !


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 07:07 AM

Yup Guest...looks like youre right - went to the FIFA page and found this.....

- In the first round, the teams finishing first and second in each group qualify for the second round. Ranking in each group shall be determined as follows: a) Greater number of points obtained in all the group matches b) Goal difference in all the group matches c) Greater number of goals scored in all the group matches

- If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above 3 criteria, their place shall be determined as follows: d) Greater number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned e) Goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned f) Greater number of goals scored in the group matches between the teams concerned g) Drawing of lots by the Organising Committee for the FIFA World Cup™

Hmmmmm.........no mention of Roy !!!

D


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 07:04 AM

To quote from the ofFicial World Cup site Ireland's Hopes
McCarthy's dream result would be for either Cameroon to beat Germany or vice versa.
However a 0-0 draw would see both climb to five points and should Ireland only get a 1-0 win then they would face off against the Africans in a drawing of lots to see who progresses.
They would both have scored the same amount of goals, have the same goal difference and drawn their head to head match.
It would be the most painful World Cup exit since the Dutch went out on penalties to Brazil in the 1998 semi-finals and England to Argentina the same year.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 06:50 AM

Donal,

That's wrong. Cards don't come into it. After various permutations concerning goals, it's straight into drawing lots


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 06:44 AM

Nigel.. It would never end up as a lottery. The rules for sorting out teams with equal points are :

1) Goal Difference 2) Number of Goals 3) Number of Red Cards 4) Number of Yellow Cards 5) Number of people sent home unfairly for disagreeing with their manager.

(actually I was lying about no.5 - just cant seem to post anything without a reference to the Boy Roy)

D


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 06:28 AM

Sweden 2, Nigeria 1. Both Swedish goals by Henrik Larsson of (Glasgow) Celtic. Happy, hoopy, heroic, Henrik! (Pity he didn't get a third,I'd love to have been able to use "hat trick" as well!) Commiserations to Nigeria, they played bravely and at times brilliantly and were worth a draw.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Fred
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 06:28 AM

Escamillo,

I think that you mean 'illustrious' instead of 'illustrated'

I wish I could say 'may the best team win' but that would be you!

So I have to say 'may England win' though I very much doubt it

Fred


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 06:11 AM

A one goal win will put Ireland through, as long as Germany-Cameroon is not a draw.
A two goal win for Ireland makes the next round certain, irrespective of the outcome of the other match.
If Germany-Cameroon is drawn, a one goal win by Ireland will reduce the competeition to a lottery!


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Escamillo
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 09:59 PM

9 hours for the match England-Argentina, and our country is already semi-paralyzed. At 8:30 AM local time, planes will stop in the air, the tango dancers will freeze (at that time in the morning they are usually frozen), and vampiroid programmers like me will have already slept at night. And possibly, for one day, nobody will talk about the Reverse Bank Robbery.

Let the most best be the winner, as our illustrated fans would say in English.

Un abrazo - Andrés (from Buenos Aires)


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 01:46 PM

A two goal win for Ireland is a tall order. The Irish team are great battlers but goalscoring is a scarce commodity with this side. Saudia Arabia will take heart from a valiant effort to-day, and Ireland will need a lot of luck to advance. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 10:47 AM

And if Cameroons win and Ireland win, they are the only teams going through. All good fun.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Mikey joe
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 10:20 AM

Sorry can't seem to get anything on that clicky Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 10:14 AM

Yeah, Wolfgang - the expansion of the WC to 32 teams in 98 - meaning that only 2 qualify from each group - has actually led to more teams playing for wins all round. Goals per game seems to be well up on the most dour WC I can remember - 90. Someone needs to tell Uruguay though..
Back to the original Keanegate, though, here's something some wag in Ireland has put together on his Photoshop - might raise a few laughs: The Great Organisers


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 10:07 AM

Only 5 more days and we may be able to continue this thread on "Round Two".


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 08:35 AM

Wolfgang, even a German team as (comparatively) poor as this one is perceived as dangerous opposition. They're not a total bunch of Janckers --- Klose, Ballack and Kahn are all top quality players, and it only needs the others to raise their game a little for Germany to go a lot further. Realistically, the Irish were celebrating the fact that they avoided a defeat which was only seconds away --- that leads to a powerful rush of emotion!

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 08:17 AM

It will be interesting to hear/see the next two games in parallel. Each of the three leading teams can go through to the last sixteen without having to wait for the other result:
Germany (with a draw)
Cameroun (with a win, whatever result)
Ireland (with a two goal win).
For Germany and Cameroun, even a loss could be good enough,
for Ireland, everything but a win is not enough.

The interesting situation for Cameroun and Germany is that in the case the Irish don't win, it doesn't matter whether they lose or draw. So they both (all three, acutally) have to play for victory. Germany by now knows that a last minute goal can quickly turn the tide.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 07:16 AM

I don't claim to know much about football, but as an expat from the late 1980s on I got caught up in the whole social phenomenon of the Charlton era. And I do believe that the successes of that era did contribute something to that nebulous pheonomenon, national confidence;

I came across the following in an interview dated 19 May on the Guardian unlimited site referred to above:

Aside from the old codgers at the front and back of the team, the most obvious unifying factor, according to Quinn, is powerful camaraderie: 'Mick changed the way we played but never changed that great feeling of team spirit and togetherness. It has probably been the ingredient that has helped most in getting the Irish people behind the team. They can see that regardless of whether it's Roy Keane at Manchester United or Mattie Holland at Ipswich nobody is bigger than anyone else in this squad'.

Quinner did go on to refer to Keane as 'colossal to the cause at all times', so there's no begrudgery there. But it does strike me that the team spirit and the close relationship with the fans were essential elements in the success story, and that these seem to be lacking in Keane, so far as one can judge from press reports.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 07:05 AM

I agree with McGrath that next Tuesday's match is not a foregone conclusion. The Saudis were unlucky not to score today. They will be playing for nothing but pride next Tuesday - although sometimes pride is a big motivator.

But a win by two goals and we're through regardless of the other result. And if we play to our best we're surely capable of that.

And given all that's gone on for the past few weeks, as the man said - if the lads want to celebrate and have a laugh and a drink, I have no problem with that.

They played a bit of the sing song on RTE radio this morning. They were singing "Stand by Me" - a bit of irony there maybe?


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 06:53 AM

Now....Imaginr the result if Roy Keanr had been playing.....*Donal ducks for cover*....

D


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 06:39 AM

"Joxer goes to Stuttgart" would have been a good choice too. But why did they celebrate already? They should have a little bit more ambition than not to loose against Germany (which by the way is now ranked at 11th place in the world by FIFA while Ireland is ranked 15th with nearly as much points as Germany).

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 06:32 AM

According to Mick McCarthy, the Irish team celebrations went on into the early hours of the morning and included "a singsong with guitars and squeezeboxes". Any suggestions as to what they might have been singing? I bet The Fields of Athenry was in there at least once!

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 05:44 AM

Just dropped in from watching the game between Cameroons and the Saudis - and the Saudis are a lot better this time. And if they can get away without a hammering today they'll probably be better again when the meet the Irish. Not a walkover, I anticipate.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 05:43 AM

I cannot see the games, only online-read them in the PC. Not as much fun as TV. I expect to be able to see the final but I'm fairly sure that I won't see one of yesterday's contrahents in that game. It is for both above their average abilities.

Right now, I 'read' the Cameroun-SaudiA. game and hope for a goal. It is best for us if that game has a winner (preference: SA, second preference: high victory for Ca). If I read the Irish preferences correctly they should prefer them to draw.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 04:17 AM

Point taken, McG, but the group could hinge on the number of goals scored against the Saudis. Mind you, the Irish seem to be best coming back from a goal down!
As for Carsten Jancker, I think he's well on the way to rhyming slang status.
Just saw a bit of the Denmark v Senegal game. Watch the highlights later for the best (team) goal in the tournament so far.

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 02:33 PM

Interesting enough - a different bunch of cliches.

I can't see how being embarassed about a culture's differences is any great advance on being proud of its differences. And I think that if you are facing desperate odds it's a lot better to admit that and get on with the job, rather than pretending the odds are in your favour. False optimism is a treacherous friend.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 02:05 PM

Nice one Wolfgang. I'm with McGrath on this one. I think it would be very wrong to underestimate the Saudis but having said that I don't think that, that is the Irish way of approaching a game 'cause we're always usually the underdog. Very interesting and insiteful editorial here


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:33 PM

Jancker is worth a special comment. He has played in 17 games (mostly only part time) in the last season for Munich and he hasn't scored a single goal. Has anybody ever heard of a forward striker who has failed to score even once (no injury excuse) during a whole year and being selected nevertheless to represent his country at a world championship? The best German scorer of last season (18 goals) sits at home.

There are some not very nice jokes about Jancker over here like that his only resl task is to make the other team laugh so hard that they forget that not all German players are unable to kick a ball.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:31 PM

"So now Ireland can have shooting practice against the Saudis "

That's dangerous thinking. Ireland's strength has always been playing teams which are expected to thrash them. They won't have that when they play Saudi Arabia.

And the chances are, whichever team does least well against Saudi Arabia is headed home next week. (Though if the Cameroons were to beat Germany that should mean Germany is headed for home, in spite of that 8:0 victory)


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:21 PM

Anything but "Erin go bragh", Bullfrog (see numerous other discussions of this phrase).

"Éire abú" is probably the appropriate expression, though I've never heard it used, probably due to declining standards in teaching the language, says this old fogey.

There's also "Scaoil amach na bobailíní" which can be bowdler-translated as "let it rip".


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:07 PM

Apart from all that -- what a cracking game! I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially the edge-of-the-seat finale. And I particularly liked the irony of Germany taking off Jancker (possibly the worst player ever to represent them?) while Ireland brought on Niall Quinn to do the same job but better! I thought there were great chunks of the game where the Irish were totally in charge, and but for Kahn's saves and Keane missing the overhead they could have won. So now Ireland can have shooting practice against the Saudis while Cameroon stuff the Germans!
What's the Gaelic for Come on Ireland?

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: The Hiker
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 12:50 PM

Anyone notice Mick Mc Carthy singing the Irish National Anthem with the same gusto as any who was born on this fair isle. In reply to Den while no one has disputed the accurecy of Roy Keane's complaints regarding facilities equipment etc, Saipan was not the place to complain and Keane overstepped his position when he lost the rag with McCarthy.The overlooked player in all this furore over Keane is the other Corkman Colin Healy who got the call to go to Japan and was then told not to bother coming when the boy Keane changed his mind and decided to stay on.If Keane had the courage of his convictions why did he not stick to his guns and go home when he said he would the reason in my opinion is that he never had any intention of leaving and was looking for attention like the spoiled child he really is and again an apology sincere or not would have been enough to allow the boy Keane to return to Japan.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 12:06 PM

The sad thing for the missing Keane is that whatever happens he's the loser, permanently. If Ireland does badly, he's to blame, and if they do well, it's "Who needed him?"

Whereas if Ireland does well, the manager could be a Klingon, and he'd still count as Irish. (And already they've done well enough to count as doing well.)


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: IanC
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:59 AM

Declan

Well said. I concur entirely (proud of being Irish myself this morning, even though I'm not).

;-)
Ian


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:52 AM

IanC - y'know its a funny kind of thing...I know lots of guys who emigrated to England and the US in the mid 80's when I left University.......the ones that went to the US picked up the accent and habits in a few months whereas the ones who went to England sound like they never left Ireland 17 years later. I lived in Poole for 5 years and loved it - but if I picked up one hint of an English accent or mannerism I would have been murdered at home (not literally of course)....Anyway - don't think you have to be a history professor to figure out why !!! Hopefully all has changed now...hopefully...

Donal


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:42 AM

Ian C,

There are days when it feels special to be Irish, and this is one of them.

Saying that is not to put down any other nationality. As far as I'm concerned if Mick wants to call himself English thats fine by me two. He can even justifiably call himself both Irish and English, because its true.

Reading other threads it seems that some people are feeling special about being English over the last few days, and thats fine by me too.

Comments made above are in the context of the discussion of Roy's alleged comments to Mick McCarthy and were not meant to imply any superiority of any race/nationality over another.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:28 AM

Well, as I said, there ARE only 2 Keanos... Cameroon were a better side than this German side - media was getting carried away with that Saudi result (although it'll probably get them through in 1st place, sadly). A country that aspires to the semis/final shouldn't be conceding the ball for large parts of the game to little Ireland - Argentina and Italy, to start with, will rip them to pieces. Cameroon might even manage it.

Keane is definitely onto a loser if he's going down that road - Irish football has been all the richer for all the Plastic Paddies down the years - Mancini, Heighway, Lawro, Sheedy, Houghton, Hughton, Aldo, Cas.... one of the precious few rewards for all those waves of emigration. Plus, we are an ENGLISH team, after all - English style of play - has been another of our strengths - even if it's not pretty to watch. The actual English team should try it too, mebbe :->

Great result for the Yanks too - goals scored by 2 fellas that Ireland didn't need the services of too (O'Brien, MacBride). Now, how will Uruguay's O'Neill do tomorrow against the cocks of the walk ???


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: IanC
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:04 AM

Donal

No offence taken, if none intended.

I'm perhaps still a bit sensitive ... a couple of years ago, I nearly walked away from the Mudcat after a number of racist statements about "The English" which went unchallenged. As far as I recall, the most blatant of these was "We should always remember that The English are The Oppressor". One or two of my English friends quietly stopped coming to The Mudcat at the time, but I didn't ... and after a while the remarks seemed to.

I've been here a lot longer now, and I'm much more inclined to challenge statements like that - even if they're unintentionally insulting, they still give the impression that such things are acceptable.

I'm English, and I see no reason to be ashamed of what I was born (whatever it may have been). If people want to insult me, they can do it for something I can change, like the fact that I prefer cricket to football.

By the way, there are plenty of people I know of [Irish, Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, West Indian ...] descent who I regard as perfectly proper English people. Is there something special about being "Irish"?

;-)
Ian


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 10:27 AM

Or perhaps Cheshire accents for Roy Keane's kids.

Got to agree with those who think Roy fucked up, by the way. Even in Cork, where there seems to be no shortage of people willing to forgive the prodigal son, he must be feeling pretty stupid when he shows his face. McCarthy however seems to be enjoying himself - along with the rest of the lads.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Airto
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 10:25 AM

IanC,

If Roy Keane did call McCarthy an English so-and-so, it was the most damaging thing he could do for the cohesion of the Irish football squad.

Basically it would have been telling McCarthy he didn't belong in the Irish camp in spite of having two Irish parents and playing more than fifty times for the team. There are about a dozen players in the Irish squad with a similar background to McCarthy's. What were they to think?

Spaw, Ireland had a difficult game in Dublin recently against USA but won it. Portugal were in our qualification group and were awesome. I didn't expect your guys to do so well today. Well done.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Airto
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 10:21 AM

IanC,

If Roy Keane did call McCarthy an English so-and-so, it was the most damaging thing he could do for the cohesion of the Irish football squad.

Basically it would have been telling McCarthy he didn't belong in the Irish camp in spite of having two Irish parents and playing more than fifty times for the team. It would have been telling McCarthy that he would never be accepted as a proper Irishman. There are about a dozen players in the Irish squad with a similar background to McCarthy's. What were they to think?

If Keane did make such a remark, and wouldn't withdraw it, he clearly had to go. No question.


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