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Politically incorrect national anthems

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McGrath of Harlow 06 Jan 08 - 07:13 PM
Little Hawk 06 Jan 08 - 03:58 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jan 08 - 03:20 PM
Uncle_DaveO 06 Jan 08 - 02:02 PM
Mooh 06 Jan 08 - 01:15 PM
GUEST 06 Jan 08 - 11:00 AM
Mooh 06 Jan 08 - 09:07 AM
Rog Peek 06 Jan 08 - 06:04 AM
Art Thieme 05 Jan 08 - 08:20 PM
Little Hawk 05 Jan 08 - 07:59 PM
GUEST,IRTWM 05 Jan 08 - 05:26 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jan 08 - 02:50 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Jan 08 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice 05 Jan 08 - 01:07 PM
topical tom 05 Jan 08 - 10:22 AM
GUEST,Visitor 05 Jan 08 - 10:18 AM
eddie1 05 Jan 08 - 09:52 AM
Betsy 05 Jan 08 - 08:25 AM
goatfell 05 Jan 08 - 06:33 AM
goatfell 05 Jan 08 - 06:28 AM
SharonA 01 Apr 02 - 11:05 AM
toadfrog 29 Mar 02 - 01:59 AM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Mar 02 - 06:06 PM
GUEST 24 Mar 02 - 04:55 PM
GUEST,Roger O'Keeffe 24 Mar 02 - 04:52 PM
The Walrus 24 Mar 02 - 05:24 AM
The Pooka 23 Mar 02 - 11:24 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Mar 02 - 02:07 PM
SharonA 23 Mar 02 - 02:01 PM
Irish sergeant 23 Mar 02 - 09:59 AM
The Pooka 22 Mar 02 - 11:45 PM
Amos 22 Mar 02 - 11:40 PM
allie kiwi 22 Mar 02 - 11:18 PM
The Pooka 22 Mar 02 - 09:06 PM
allie kiwi 22 Mar 02 - 08:23 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Mar 02 - 05:02 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Mar 02 - 04:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Mar 02 - 04:53 PM
Wolfgang 22 Mar 02 - 11:24 AM
alanabit 22 Mar 02 - 09:16 AM
John Gray 22 Mar 02 - 07:12 AM
John Gray 22 Mar 02 - 07:06 AM
alanabit 22 Mar 02 - 05:28 AM
alanabit 22 Mar 02 - 05:23 AM
Metchosin 22 Mar 02 - 02:59 AM
GUEST,ciarili 22 Mar 02 - 02:14 AM
Amos 22 Mar 02 - 01:35 AM
CapriUni 22 Mar 02 - 01:21 AM
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campion 21 Mar 02 - 09:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 07:13 PM

Here's an interesting twist for one national anthem, sung backwards, and it sounds quite good that way too. I won't say which one, because it would spoil the surprise. An impressive, if somewhat pointless, feat.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 03:58 PM

And then, there's the national anthem of France:

Read the lyrics to the French national anthem while you listen to the "Marseillaise." An alternate translation, where available, is included in parenthesis.

Is the Marseillaise truly the world's goriest national anthem?

Interesting information about the modern-day controversy in France regarding the text of their national anthem follows the lyrics.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

National Anthem of France
Words and music by Rouger de lisle (1760-1836)

Arise children of the fatherland
The day of glory has arrived
Against us tyranny's
Bloody standard is raised
Listen to the sound in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers
They are coming into our midst
To cut the throats of your sons and consorts

To arms citizens
Form you battalions
March, march
Let impure blood
Water our furrows

What do they want this horde of slaves
Of traitors and conspiratorial kings?
For whom these vile chains
These long-prepared irons?
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage
What methods must be taken?
It is we they dare plan
To return to the old slavery!

What! These foreign cohorts!
They would make laws in our courts!
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would cut down our warrior sons
Good Lord! By chained hands
Our brow would yield under the yoke
The vile despots would have themselves be
The masters of destiny

Tremble, tyrants and traitors
The shame of all good men
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will receive their just reward
Against you we are all soldiers
If they fall, our young heros
France will bear new ones
Ready to join the fight against you

Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors
Bear or hold back your blows
Spare these sad victims
Who with regret are taking up arms against us
But not these bloody despots
These accomplices of BouillŽ
All these tigers who pitilessly
Are ripping open their mothers' breasts (womb)

We shall enter into the pit
When our elders will no longer be there
There we shall find their ashes
And the mark of their virtues
We are much less jealous of surviving them
Than of sharing their coffins
We shall have the sublime pride
Of avenging or joining them

Sacred Love for the Fatherland
Lead and support our avenging arms
Liberty, cherished liberty
Join the struggle with your defenders
Under our flags, let victory
hasten to you virile (or manly) force
So that in death your enemies
See your triumph and our glory!

(Drive on sacred patriotism
Support our avenging arms
Liberty, cherished liberty
Join the struggle with your defenders
Under our flags, let victory
Hurry to your evil tone
So that in death your enemies
See your triumph and our glory!)


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 03:20 PM

Here's the original version of O Canada.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 02:02 PM

I might suggest "The Soldiers' Song" from Knickerbocker Holiday". I was a member of the cast of a production of that great musical in 1950 or so, and the part of this song I can now remember is like this:

"To war, to war, to war!
We don't want what we're fighting for!
To war, to war, to war!
But that's all right when soldiers go to war.

Oh, if we leave our homes and go to fight,
It's not because we're certain that we're right,
Or even that it fills us with delight
That we'll be slaughtered heroes by tonight,
Or that we've been offered gold!
No, it's only that we're told!

To war, to war, to war!"
and so forth.

More's the pity, a quick Google didn't get me the complete lyrics.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Mooh
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 01:15 PM

Guest...LOL, sure, whatever.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:00 AM

OAK AND ASH AND THORN!!!!


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Mooh
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 09:07 AM

"...in all yous guys command..." or some such variant would work around here and no one would notice.

O Canada does have other verses, as mentioned above, one which contains the line "may stalwart sons and gentle maidens rise".

My favourite verse:

O Canada! Where pines and maples grow,
great prairies spread and lordly rivers flow,
how dear to us thy broad domain,
from east to western sea,
our own beloved native land,
our true north strong and free!
etc...

But wait, perhaps it's not inclusive enough for oaks, spruce, cedar et al.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Rog Peek
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 06:04 AM

I'm English, and I, alas, haven't got a bloody national anthem!

Rog


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 08:20 PM

My answer to the question inherrent in the title of this thread is "ALL OF THEM!!" I pretty much adhere to the old idea that: If hell has a religion, it is Nationalism and/or Patriotism!!

If national anthems aren't politically incorrect, they sure ought to be that!

Art


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 07:59 PM

They have a chip on their shoulders about it and are over-reacting, in my opinion, in the way that people do overreact when they carry such a grievance.

The primary reason the word "sons" is used in that lyric is that it's a one-syllable word which fits neatly into the line and serves the purpose admirably. The words "daughters", "children", "citizens", "people", "women" are all of 2 or more syllables, and they simply do not work as well. In the context of the anthem, the term "sons" is a generic term that simply means "the children of the nation". "Souls" or "hearts" would also work, and of recent years in fact the word "hearts" (all our hearts' command) has often been substituted.

Another factor, of course, in the use of "sons" would have been that it was normally men who served in the military at the historical time the lyric was written, not women.....but the real key is that "sons" is a one-syllable word that fits the meter and rythm and also conveys the necessary meaning (the children of the nation).

It was not intended as any deliberate exclusion of females, nor should it now be taken as such.

Be that as it may, I have no objection to people singing "all our hearts command" if that makes them feel better. I have no objection to either approach. They both work okay.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST,IRTWM
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 05:26 PM

Reading through the remarks, it seems like women aren't being given enough credit by the people who want to change every instance of 'sons'. Are they really that insecure?


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 02:50 PM

The French "O Canada", the "Chant national" is far better than any of the translations its ever had into English. And there's nothing in any way sexist about it either.

Here's the first verse, which counts as the National Anthem, but without anything about "sons". (The later verses are pretty good too):

Ô Canada!
Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 02:21 PM

Something tells me "The Maple Leaf Forever" will never fly in Québec.

The only maple here on the prairies is the Manitoba maple, which drips goo because it is always beset with aphids and its abundant seedlings are a nuisance in gardens.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 01:07 PM

"Senator wants to change anthem's sexist lyrics"

which proves that the Canadian Senate, like the House of Lords, is a total waste of air and space.

" wish they'd stop fucking with my national anthem...
PC feckwits!"

Which proves the Canadian education system is failing miserably.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: topical tom
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 10:22 AM

Canada's "alternate anthem" that we sang in elementary school, "The Maple Leaf Forever":

                   The Maple Leaf Forever - Lyrics

From: Sean Vanderfluit
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,nb.general,can.general,ns.general,soc.culture.atlantic.canada
Subject: Re: "The Maple Leaf Forever", words to
Organization: Vancouver Regional FreeNet

When I was in elementary school (late 1970's) we'd have school assemblies every Friday. Part of the routine was always the singing of O Canada, God Save the Queen, and The Maple Leaf Forever. IMHO, The Maple Leaf Forever is a far more stirring and patriotic song than O Canada. Of course, it's probably far too politically incorrect, but what isn't these days. It's part of our history, for better or worse, and it's about time Canadians quit throwing their history in the closet as if it's something to be ashamed of. But check out the last verse. If that isn't a rousing call for national unity, we all might as well leave.

The Lyrics

    In Days of yore,
    From Britain's shore
    Wolfe the dauntless hero came
    And planted firm Britannia's flag
    On Canada's fair domain.
    Here may it wave,
    Our boast, our pride
    And joined in love together,
    The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
    The Maple Leaf Forever.

    [CHORUS]
    The Maple Leaf
    Our Emblem Dear,
    The Maple Leaf Forever.
    God save our Queen and heaven bless,
    The Maple Leaf Forever.

    At Queenston Heights and Lundy's Lane
    Our brave fathers side by side
    For freedom's home and loved ones dear,
    Firmly stood and nobly died.
    And so their rights which they maintained,
    We swear to yeild them never.
    Our watchword ever more shall be
    The Maple Leaf Forever

    [CHORUS]

    Our fair Dominion now extends
    From Cape Race to Nootka Sound
    May peace forever be our lot
    And plenty a store abound
    And may those ties of love be ours
    Which discord cannot sever
    And flourish green for freedom's home
    The Maple Leaf Forever

    [CHORUS]

HTMLified by clamen+www@c


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST,Visitor
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 10:18 AM

If you REALLY want to have a NPC national anthem (it is banned now);

Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt,
wenn es stets zu Schutz und Trutze
brüderlich zusammenhält.
von der Maas bis an die Memel,
von der Etsch bis an den Belt,
Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt!

Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue,
deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang
sollen in der Welt behalten
ihren alten schönen Klang,
uns zu edler Tat begeistern
unser ganzes Leben lang.
Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue,
Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang!

Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
für das deutsche Vaterland!
Danach lasst uns alle streben
brüderlich mit Herz und Hand!
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
sind des Glückes Unterpfand;
Blüh im Glanze dieses Glückes,
blühe, deutsches Vaterland.

Provisional translation:

Germany, Germany above everything,
above everything in the world,
When it always, for protection and defence,
Brotherly stands together.
From the Meuse to the Neman,
From the Adige to the Belt,
Germany, Germany above all,
Above anything in the world.

German women, German loyalty,
German wine and German song
Shall retain in the world
Their old beautiful ring
And inspire us to noble deeds
During all of our life.
German women, German loyalty,
German wine and German song!

Unity and justice and freedom
For the German fatherland;
For these let us all strive,
Brotherly with heart and hand.
Unity and justice and freedom
Are the pledge of happiness.
flourish in this fortune's blessing,
flourish, German fatherland.

The third stanza is currently Germany's national anthem, the first 2 are banned.

I personally like the GDR's national anthem, many of my German friends have told me that even Wessie's think that is a much better national anthem for Germany.

The GDR's national anthem;
Auferstanden aus Ruinen
und der Zukunft zugewandt,
lasst uns Dir zum Guten dienen,
Deutschland, einig Vaterland.
Alte Not gilt es zu zwingen,
und wir zwingen sie vereint,
denn es muss uns doch gelingen,
dass die Sonne schön wie nie
über Deutschland scheint,
über Deutschland scheint.

Glück und Friede sei beschieden
Deutschland, unserm Vaterland.
Alle Welt sehnt sich nach Frieden,
reicht den Völkern eure Hand.
Wenn wir brüderlich uns einen,
schlagen wir des Volkes Feind.
Lasst das Licht des Friedens scheinen,
dass nie eine Mutter mehr
ihren Sohn beweint,
ihren Sohn beweint.

Lasst uns pflügen, lasst uns bauen,
lernt und schafft wie nie zuvor,
und der eignen Kraft vertrauend
steigt ein frei Geschlecht empor.
Deutsche Jugend, bestes Streben
unsres Volks in dir vereint,
wirst du Deutschlands neues Leben.
Und die Sonne schön wie nie
über Deutschland scheint,
über Deutschland scheint.

Provisional translation
] German lyrics

Auferstanden aus Ruinen
und der Zukunft zugewandt,
lasst uns Dir zum Guten dienen,
Deutschland, einig Vaterland.
Alte Not gilt es zu zwingen,
und wir zwingen sie vereint,
denn es muss uns doch gelingen,
dass die Sonne schön wie nie
über Deutschland scheint,
über Deutschland scheint.

Glück und Friede sei beschieden
Deutschland, unserm Vaterland.
Alle Welt sehnt sich nach Frieden,
reicht den Völkern eure Hand.
Wenn wir brüderlich uns einen,
schlagen wir des Volkes Feind.
Lasst das Licht des Friedens scheinen,
dass nie eine Mutter mehr
ihren Sohn beweint,
ihren Sohn beweint.

Lasst uns pflügen, lasst uns bauen,
lernt und schafft wie nie zuvor,
und der eignen Kraft vertrauend
steigt ein frei Geschlecht empor.
Deutsche Jugend, bestes Streben
unsres Volks in dir vereint,
wirst du Deutschlands neues Leben.
Und die Sonne schön wie nie
über Deutschland scheint,
über Deutschland scheint.
        
[edit] English translation

Risen from the ruins
and faced towards the future,
Let us serve you for the good,
Germany, united fatherland.
Old woes we will have to conquer,
and, united, so we shall,
For it lies within our power
that the sun, beautiful as never before,
Shines over Germany,
shines over Germany.

Happiness and peace may be granted
Germany, our fatherland.
All the world now longs for peace,
so go forth and extend your hand.
When as brothers we unite,
we defeat the people's foe.
Let it shine, the light of Peace!
so that no mother again must
Mourn her son,
mourn her son.

Let us plough, let us build,
learn and work as never before,
And, in confidence and strength,
a free generation will come forth.
German youth, the best endeavor
of our people combined in you,
You will be Germany's new life.
Then may the sun, more beautiful than ever
Shine over Germany,
shine over Germany.

Now THAT is a good national anthem, amongst others because it talks about peace and NOT about war.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: eddie1
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 09:52 AM

I've enjoyed reading this thread and, having lived through the era of playing in a band where you had to finish the evening by playing "God Save The Queen", I support the Billy Connolly idea of the theme music from The Archers. The great advantage over all other anthems is that the words are unforgettable, namely:

Dum de dum de dum de dum
Dum de dum de dum dum
Dum de dum de dum de dum
Dum de dum de dum
Dum de dum de dum de dum de dum de dum de dum
Dum de dum de dum de dum de dum de dum de dum.

Have to finish now, I'm dribbling patriotic tears in my keyboard!

Eddie


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Betsy
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 08:25 AM

The British National anthem is great - it fits in perfectly with all our other sporting chants and songs - many using Folk song/tunes .
Not many sing the "Queen" instead electing to sing "God save our Greatest team - long live our noble etc. etc." and obviously we want our Team ( as the song says ) to be victorious.

Leave them all alone they were developed by generations who thought or believed a country needed some sort of musical identity and in times when women were not part of the fighting force whether you like that fact or not.

So-called Politically correct people make me sick,we are constantly told that their view overrules the majority, which in itself makes a laughing stock of the basic premise of Democracy.
I say, fair play and full representation of all views.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: goatfell
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 06:33 AM

Advnce Australia fair was written by a man from Glasgow, Waltzing Matlida was written by an Australian about an Australian man, and yet the Australians voted for a song written by a Scotsman.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: goatfell
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 06:28 AM

God save Queen is a anti Scottish song, then the English wonder why it gets booed every time it is played here in Scotland


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 11:05 AM

Well, this thread has hit the magic 100-post mark, so it's time to go to Part 2 of this discussion, on this thread: Politically incorrect national anthems 2 (click here)

I've already copied-and-pasted a comment on that thread, made the other day by a GUEST who couldn't find this thread. So please go to the "Politically incorrect national anthems 2" thread to read the comment and to post any further comments on this subject. Thanks!

Sharon


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: toadfrog
Date: 29 Mar 02 - 01:59 AM

I personally like the Star Spangled Banner. But if we were to choose an anthem all over again, I'd vote for "A Train." That's about as American as a song can get.

Or how's this?

Sons of the Fatherland, arise!
Bring happiness to our beautious shores!
God blesses our noble fight,
Our cringeing enemy to smite!
No more shall they spit on our glorious soil!


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 06:06 PM

Very likely Roger's right there. Here is an extract from a website about the Soldier's Song:

"The phrase Bhearna Bhoil, in the Irish language, means the Gap of Danger, and refers to a battle in the rising of 1798, when John Kelly, the Boy from Killan, led a charge against the Bewley Gates in the seige of New Ross. The carnage at that location earned it the title Bhearna Bhaoil, and it became a symbol of the danger that Ireland's sons were willing to face for her freedom. Even when the Soldier's Song is translated into other languages, the term Bhearna Baoil remains in the Irish."

Though, as the extract from the Ulster cycle indicates, it appears to be a phrase that has a much longer history in the Irish than just 1798. I suspect the word "gap" might perhaps have some other more general significance.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:55 PM

Transmissio praecox. I was editing to add:

" their survival chances would not be a good insurance risk."


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST,Roger O'Keeffe
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:52 PM

I have always assumed that the "bearna baoil" referred to the dodgy moment in a siege where fortifications have been breached, and the area gets a bit uncomfortable for anyone who occupies it as fire will be concentrated on them and their survival chances would not be a.

And speaking about Andrew Lloyd Webber, Ireland is already sliding that direction with the consciously PC "Ireland's call" which is sung as a pseudo-anthem at rugby matches as a gesture towards the sensibilities of the Northern Ireland members of the team who mainly come from the Unionist tradition. The sentiment is laudable, but the music is dire, even featuring a very Eurovision key shift.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: The Walrus
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 05:24 AM

Neil,

It was the US armed forces that invaded Canada, not the other way round (wasn't it a Senator from Kentucky who claimed that one battalion of Kentucky militia could conquer the whole of lower Canada alone?). As for the impressment of American seamen, yes it happened, but then there was always the definition of who was an American? The British principle was that if you were born British, you were British (and as a sailor liable to be pressed, unless you had a "certificate of protection") the Americans seemed to believe that if you could get to any American territory (or ship) and say you were American, that was good enough (hence the number of RN deserters serving on American ships (civil and military - it was the only trade many of them knew). As for the British being on US soil, yes, it was a counter attack, there was as far as I have read it, no plan of conquest in London (everyone was a little tied up with this Corsican chappie causing trouble at the time), that's not to say that London wouldhave turned it's nose up at extending Canada, but it wasn't part of the plan. Oh, and burning chunks of Washinton was revenge for the Americans burning bits of York/Toronto. As for SSB, personally, I think it works better as a poem than a song,but it's not my anthem, so I don't have a say.

Regards

Tom


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: The Pooka
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 11:24 PM

McGrath - agreed.

I've seen the Gap of Dunloe; but never sung the Gap of Danger. Of course this Yank dunno the Irish; but I love it from afar. So to speak. Or not speak.

But Yes that sure is an interesting page, and site. Thanks!! (btw I note therein that one of the Warlords of Ulster was none other than our friend, Amergin the Poet. :)


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 02:07 PM

I doubt very much if anyone in Ireland anyway has ever sung it with "gap of danger" - that's what "bearna baoghail" means. But even though to the best of my knowledge Peadar Kearney, being a Dublin man, wrote the song in English in the first place, these words have always been in Irish.

"Gap of danger" doesn't rhyme and it doesn't scan, and God knows who is responsible for putting it in the versions on some websites. I imagine someone wrote it in as a translator's note in brackets in the line, and some other eejit took out the Irish words. But I can't believe in anyone actually singing it that way.

And when you think of it, "gap of danger" needs almost as much explanation what kit means as "bearna baoghail" does. (I checked on a search engine to find where the phrase crops up except in bastardised versions of the Soldier's Song, and this was one of the few examples. Which doesn't clarify matters much, but it's an interesting page.)


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: SharonA
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 02:01 PM

Thanks, everyone, for making this a wonderful thread. I've been enjoying every word! Write on!!!


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 09:59 AM

I do have to correct an error here. During the war of 1812, The British attacked Fort McHenry in Maryland That is what Francis SCott Key was writing about Not Fort Henry in Canada. Was there expansion involved? Certainly, on both sides. the British were not entirely blameless. There was after all the small matter of the impressment of American seamen, inciting the native Americans to border forays against the Americans to mention a few. In actual fact, the government tended to be pro British as the French revolutionaries and later Napoleon were seen as threats to the nation. As to The U.S. being imperialistic the army numbered possibly five thousand men and the navy consisted of relics from the revolution and Jefferson's embargo barges. Not the stuff imperialism is made of. Kindest regards. Neil


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: The Pooka
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:45 PM

allie kiwi - *BG* - Green hairy fruit, indeed! Lurking Aussies, to be SURE! / I thought of pasting in the Maori, but my posts are too lengthy as it is; & I had left out the gaelic of The Soldier's Song...but being a weary old man all tired sick & sore, I really must get to bed soon; Irish-American bloke needs his beauty sheep y'know :)

[Up jumped the Pooka & jumped into the billabong...]


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:40 PM

Mcgrath:

You hold, as usual, the senior perspective and I agree with your revisions to my alteration of the crustalization of chaos that orignally produced the effing song!! :>) Thanks for the kind remarks.

If I weren't in the deepest, bluest cups tonight, I'd undertake to incorporate yer changes. As it is, why, we're lucky this post is even spelled half-right. (I believe it is, at least, half.) I canbarely reub three chords together undeer the circumstances...

Men will say what women say; And pay what women say they'll pay; And thinking this, all I would say, Is, "Thank the Lord for Beaujolais!"

In any case the bright point of it all is that war is very difficult to prosecure while thinking of children, what they need, and what they mean to the well being of the species.

By all means, please add your version to your wonderful collection and send me a file of it. in your own inimitable style!!

Warmest regards,

A


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: allie kiwi
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:18 PM

Thanks, Pooka, you guessed correct *grin*. As I pointed out to someone else - it's either that or I'm obsessed with green hairy fruit!

One of my favourite anthems would be the Star Spangled Banner, never had any trouble singing it myself, but I guess it depends what key it is in. I didn't realise I knew so many anthems until I came to this thread!

I've always like God Defend New Zealand - all the versus, since they seem to fit out 'peace, not war' nuclear free status etc. Unfortunately we never seem to sing more than the first couple, since we also have to sing it in Maori. If it gets sung too slowly it can sound awfully dirge-like as well.

And for any lurking Aussies - please see no mention of sheep therein! *childishly pokes out tongue*

Allie
going off singing 'And the band played waltzing matilda...'


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: The Pooka
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 09:06 PM

Re Soldier's Song - Amos - belatedly, thanks! Very very good. I agree with the sentiments of course.

McGrath of H. also, thanks for (as always) good info.

allie kiwi - yeah I also learned it with "bhearna baoghail"--the one bit of Irish surviving into the English tranlation, I guess; presumably for the rhyme with "woe or weal". I had copied/pasted lyrics from somewhere or other; I presume "gap of danger" (which I *had* seen before, too) is a translation thereof.

I've sometimes thought that in the unlikely event Ireland were to change her anthem again (I believe it used to be "God Save Ireland"), maybe "Come By The Hills" would be nice. / OK, a bit wimpy --- but nice.

allie kiwi (admittedly I'm guessing here, from your name) -- but this one's pretty good, IMO (as with The Soldier's Song, I'm pasting only the English version):

God of nations at thy feet-
In the bonds of love we meet-
Hear our voices we entreat-
God defend our free land.-
Guard Pacific's triple star-
From the shafts of strife and war-
Make her praises heard afar-
God defend New Zealand.-
-
Men of ev'ry creed and race-
Gather here before thy face-
Asking Thee to bless this place-
God defend our free land.-
From dissension, envy, hate-
And corruption guard our state-
Make our country good and great-
God defend New Zealand.-
-
Peace not war shall be our boast-
But should foe assail our coast-
Make us then a mighty host-
God defend our free land.-
Lord of battles in they might-
Put our enemies to flight-
Let our cause be just and right-
God defend New Zealand.-
-
Let our hope for Thee increase-
May Thy blessing never cease-
Give us plenty, give us peace-
God defend our free land.-
From dishonour and from shame-
Guard our country's spotless name-
Crown her with immortal fame-
God defend New Zealand.-
-
May our mountains ever be-
Freedom's ramparts on the sea-
Make us faithful unto Thee-
God defend our free land.-
Guide her in the nations van-
Preaching love and truth to man-
Working out thy glorious plan-
God defend New Zealand.-


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: allie kiwi
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 08:23 PM

Regarding A Soldiers Song... can some tell me when the words changed a little? I'm from an ex-pat Irish family and we always sing "Tonight we man the bhearna baoghail" not "Tonight we man the gap of danger"

Allie


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:02 PM

I meant keep those lines in that first verse, Amos, so it would read:

We'll sing a song, a children's song, With cheering rousing chorus, As round our blazing fires we throng, The starry heavens o'er us; Impatient for our coming lives, Awaiting what the mornings give, Here in the silence of the night, We'll chant a children's song.

Though I'd see it as a version for children to sing, at least at first. If they grew up with it and took it to their hearts, that would be the way it would have a right to become a national anthem.

The thing about the Soldiers Song is that it wasn't imposed on people by any government committee - it came up from below, and only got printed years after it caught on among prisoners of war in the campsSee this recent thread about it.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 04:53 PM

But essentially I think National Anthems should resist change, and represent a kind oif crystallization of some crucial moment in the history of the nation. That's why I like the Polish one, wioth it "March! March, Dabrowski!" and reference to Napoleon - and it's stately tune.

That's why I think Americans should value their one. (And thta's another reason why God Save the Queen is more dispensable than most, because the historic moment it is associated in it's origin is the putting down of the Forty-Five.)

But I love the way that National Anthems page I keep linking to in this thread has as it's slogan "Make Love, not war!", along with all the falgs and anthems of the world. That's the spirit! Here is the Iraqi one.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 04:53 PM

That's a neat bit of rewriting Amos, and very singable too. But I think if I'd sooner keep the lines there of the original and imagine I was off on a camping adventure. Especially if I was a child.

I think I'd feel it was a bit too cosy with the nice warm fire on the hearth and the roof over me instead of the blazing campfire and the starry heavens.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:24 AM

Yes, Lichtenstein it is and I meant the National anthem (like which is played in the case of a gold medal at the Olympics) and not just a popular hymn.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 09:16 AM

Loved it. No competition,is there?


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: John Gray
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 07:12 AM

Aaaaarrrrggghhh still can't get the double spacing and "Packed our guns----- is supposed to be a line of its own.

JG/FME


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Subject: Lyr Add: CONVICT STREAK
From: John Gray
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 07:06 AM

Okay, so rather than just not liking Advance Australia Fair, let's be really politically incorrect.
Dave Warner from his album in the late 70's, Dave Warner's From The Suburbs - Mug's Game.

Convict Streak.

Maybe its because of our convict streak
We want to fight everyone we meet
Anzac Day is our day of the year
We march our march, we drink our beer
We don't like Slopes, we don't like Yanks
I'd personally like to blow up every Commie tank
We're only few but wee fought in'nam
Packed our guns alongside Uncle Sam

Ask any of us, it were no sin
The only crime was that we didn't win and
The Poms are weak as piss, the French are queer
The Germans are wankers but they make good beer
Don't criticize what you don't understand
If you think I'm talkin' shit you don't belong in this land

I'm an Australian, we all are
We watch the tele and we drive our car
But don't you ever say we're weak
Or you'll learn all about our Convict Streak
The world began with Adam and Eve
But Australia started at Gallipoli
Our fathers put the desert into desert rats
Their uncles slipped the boots in up in Landers Flats
Don't criticize what you don't understand
It's not that we're behind the times
We're a different land

We might be slobs but we're not weak
maybe its because of our convict streak
The Poms are weak as piss, the French are queer
The Germans are wankers but they make good beer
Don't criticize what you don't understand
If you think I'm talkin' shit you don't belong in this land

I'm Australian, so are you
It doesn't matter if you're Ding or Jew
But just remember while you're here
You march our march you drink our beer.

JG/FME


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:28 AM

Just an afterthought for Rick and Little Hawk. Lord Andrew Lloyd Webber made a promise that he would emigrate if Labour ever won an election. It is about time this promise was made good. Is there any prospect of you guys putting in a word at your Immigration Office?


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:23 AM

Amos accredited another author to "Teach Your Children". Was it not actually Graham Nash, a native of the great American city of Manchester? I like the song, but it only really sounds good when sung in three part harmony. For that you need three or more people who can simultaneously hold different lines of melody. It is not always possible to find a group of folk who can simultaneously hold one. And Rick, believe me, if Andrew Lloyd Webber ever pens the national anthem of my country, high treason shall become my hobby, my passion and religious persuasion...


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 02:59 AM

Correction, the original lyrics of O Canada were composed by Sir Adolphe-BasileRouthier. I don't know if they have ever been revised, but they bear no resemblance whatsoever to the English version.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST,ciarili
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 02:14 AM

Well now, where to start...kinda felt like a good rebuttal was in order toward the Knucklehead bashing all the non-Dems/Thought-Police of America....

I like God Bless America, but that would never get past the Democrats, who at this point are but thinly veiled Socialists, something they share with the Nazi party. (After all, who's responsible for all the PC crap in the first place?) That little bit about God couldn't possibly fly, because it sounds Christian, which equals evil to a PC-conscious leftist. Never mind the special considerations given to every other religious group on the planet, or that you can think of God as whatever you conceive him to be. A rose by any other name....

"Teach your children well" is primary in the thoughts of non-Democrat-Socialists, actually. That means taking education (never meant to be in the purvue of the Federal Government in the first place - duh) out of the hands of the Federal Government because it has failed miserably! Remember that little thing about "provide for the common defense?" Nothing in there about education, federal welfare, abortion, etc., etc.. So, I'm not sure whose political sentiments above are misguided, but it ain't us regular folks who have decided that everybody has to think like we do or they're evil commie bastards!


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:35 AM

Capri:

I'm honored; thanks!

A


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: CapriUni
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:21 AM

:::Claps wildly:::

That's beautiful, Amos!

I can't really see a group of 50-something guys with beer bellies and various amounts of stubble on their chin singing this song with much gusto.

... Though, if they did, the world would be a better place


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:13 AM

Pooka:

Sorry this is late, but I had clients to care for. However, I propose the following to "sanitize" your "Soldier's Song":

The Child's Song


We'll sing a song, a children's song,
With cheering rousing chorus,
As round our parents' hearths we throng,
A safe roof warm o'er us;
Impatient for our coming lives,
Awaiting what the mornings give,
Here in the silence of the night,
We'll chant a children's song.

Chorus:
Children are we whose lives will flower in Ireland;
Dreaming to free  the green land of our homes.
Yearning to be whole,
No more our ancient sire land
Shall run with blood, or dream on broken bones.
Tonight we walk into a future
In Erin's hope, come woe or smiles
And stepping into newer, kindlier miles,
We'll chant a children's song

In valley green, on towering crag,
Our fathers lovingly taught us,
And conquered hatred in a hope for times
We'd bring the lives they bought us.
We're children of an ancient loving race,
That knows that bringing joy brings no disgrace,
And as we grow, tomorrow's hopes to face,
We'll chant a children's song

Chorus

Sons of the Gael! Daughters of the Pale!
The long watched day now dawns;
The risingranks of future life
Shall move our music on.
Our heart's fires now are warming high;
See in the east a silv'ry light,
Out yonder wait brave futures bright,
So chant a children'ssong.

Chorus

Regards,

A


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: campion
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 09:49 PM

Peader Kearney, who penned the Irish National Anthem, was uncle to Brendan Behan. Circa 1955, the Irish American playwright JP Donleavy had his play, The Ginger Man, closed down in Dublin due to pressure from the archbishop and government leaders, as it "suggested" that the protagonist "had it away" with a woman not his wife. The leading role was played by the young Richard Harris- it was his first big role. Shaken by the play being shut down, the angry and somewhat pair of Harris and Donleavt made their way to the Bailey where they were comforted by Behan, Patrick Kavanaugh, and a host of other Irish literary luminaries, none of whom, Donleavy related, had even bothered to see the play. Behan remarked that the closing down of the Ginger Man was "the saddest night in Irish history," and that although his uncle [Peader Kearney] had written the national anthem, "we'd have been better served if he had written 'We Ain't Got No Bananas.'"


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