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Politically incorrect national anthems

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O DUTIFUL RAPACIOUS LIES


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SharonA 20 Mar 02 - 04:00 PM
Clinton Hammond 20 Mar 02 - 04:05 PM
Irish sergeant 20 Mar 02 - 04:08 PM
SharonA 20 Mar 02 - 04:09 PM
DMcG 20 Mar 02 - 04:09 PM
SharonA 20 Mar 02 - 04:13 PM
RichM 20 Mar 02 - 04:26 PM
Crane Driver 20 Mar 02 - 04:28 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 02 - 04:33 PM
Helen 20 Mar 02 - 04:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 02 - 04:44 PM
GUEST,Bill Kennedy 20 Mar 02 - 04:47 PM
Metchosin 20 Mar 02 - 04:59 PM
allie kiwi 20 Mar 02 - 05:00 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 02 - 06:35 PM
Gareth 20 Mar 02 - 06:44 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 02 - 06:51 PM
Amos 20 Mar 02 - 07:05 PM
SharonA 20 Mar 02 - 07:12 PM
Amos 20 Mar 02 - 07:23 PM
Art Thieme 20 Mar 02 - 07:38 PM
Joe_F 20 Mar 02 - 08:02 PM
Amos 20 Mar 02 - 08:10 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 02 - 08:41 PM
Peter T. 20 Mar 02 - 09:00 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 02 - 09:18 PM
Greg F. 20 Mar 02 - 09:20 PM
GUEST,John Gray (at work ) 20 Mar 02 - 09:33 PM
Irish sergeant 20 Mar 02 - 09:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 02 - 09:58 PM
Little Hawk 20 Mar 02 - 10:06 PM
Wincing Devil 21 Mar 02 - 12:02 AM
Metchosin 21 Mar 02 - 01:06 AM
alison 21 Mar 02 - 03:16 AM
Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland 21 Mar 02 - 03:54 AM
GUEST,Offspring 21 Mar 02 - 04:14 AM
Hrothgar 21 Mar 02 - 04:15 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 21 Mar 02 - 05:04 AM
Teribus 21 Mar 02 - 05:12 AM
catspaw49 21 Mar 02 - 07:08 AM
greg stephens 21 Mar 02 - 07:21 AM
sian, west wales 21 Mar 02 - 07:54 AM
Grab 21 Mar 02 - 08:37 AM
SharonA 21 Mar 02 - 08:47 AM
AKS 21 Mar 02 - 09:01 AM
The Pooka 21 Mar 02 - 09:02 AM
Teribus 21 Mar 02 - 09:11 AM
GUEST,Bill Kennedy 21 Mar 02 - 09:43 AM
CapriUni 21 Mar 02 - 11:03 AM
CapriUni 21 Mar 02 - 11:09 AM
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Subject: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: SharonA
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:00 PM

While searching for something entirely unrelated, I came across this (admittedly dated) article on www.canoe.ca:

Senator wants to change anthem's sexist lyrics
Thursday, June 28, 2001

OTTAWA (CP) -- A Liberal senator would have Canadians command their sons and daughters to consider new, non-sexist lyrics for O Canada. Senator Vivienne Poy says the Canada Day weekend is a good time to reflect on the English words of the national anthem, particularly the third line: True patriot love in all they sons command.

The wording, Poy said Thursday in a release, "does not allow women to participate fully in the celebrations, nor does it acknowledge their important role in building Canada. "We want all Canadians to have the opportunity to command 'true patriot love' when they sing the national anthem on Canada Day and throughout the year."

Poy doesn't propose specific new lyrics, saying only that many Canadian would welcome a "simple but significant" change. She is working with the Famous Five Foundation to consult with music experts and linguists "to determine the best possible wording for an inclusive version," said the release. The senator has posted a petition on her Web site, www.sen.parl.gc.ca/vpoy, and on the Famous Five site, www.famous5.org, calling for an amendment to the national anthem.

The French-language anthem was first sung in June 1880, and the current English version is based on lyrics written in 1908. A special joint committee of the Senate and Commons recommended changes that became the official English version in 1968, and Parliament proclaimed O Canada the national anthem on July 1, 1980.


I'm relieved to find, after decades of hearing complaints about the US national anthem ("it's impossible to sing", "it's set to the tune of a drinking song", "it's about a battle in a war we lost", etc., etc.), that it ain't just us! Other people in other countries don't always like their anthems, either!

I wonder if this senator's petition ever resulted in any change or even any debate on the subject. Was the English version of "O Canada" revised... and what about the French version?

And what about you? Is your national anthem politically correct? Has it ever been politically corrected?


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:05 PM

I wish they'd stop fucking with my national anthem...

PC feckwits!


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:08 PM

I'd be surprised if any national anthem is politically correct. They are not designed to be. They're to make you feel pride in your nation Kindest regards, Neil


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: SharonA
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:09 PM

Hee hee! Yep, that's pretty much my feeling on the subject, too!


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:09 PM

The British Anthem is so embarassingly incorrect even the British don't sing it!


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: SharonA
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:13 PM

That last bit of giggling from me was in response to Clinton's comment! But I agree with Irish Sergeant, too, that they're not designed to be PC. After all, how could a national anthem possibly be changed to satisfy the anti-nationalist segment of the population? *G*


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: RichM
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:26 PM

All national anthems are exclusive: us versus them. Perhaps it's time to celebrate humanity's common heritage.

The internet is a good example of this; though I don't know how you would put it to music!

Rich McCarthy


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Crane Driver
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:28 PM

The trouble with the British nat. an. is that it's not about Britain, as such. It's an expression of personal loyalty to a dysfunctional Germano/ Greek dynasty that is increasingly irrelevant to most Britons. I feel a sense of belonging to Britain, not because it's particularly good, or well-run, but just because I'm a part of the place. But "Our Gracious Q." isn't part of my world at all, and I feel nothing when singing about her. So, as DMcG says, I don't.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:33 PM

One of myt vaourites s the Romanian one - here are the first two verses - and if you click on this you get the rest, and the link to the stirring tune. It has the effect in any international match of putting them psychologically on top, I reckon (they still tend to lose in the end, but with style):

Wake up, Romanian, from your deadly slumber,
In which barbaric tyrants kept you so long by force!
Now or never is the time for you to have a new fate,
Which should command respect of even your cruel enemies.

Now or never is the time for us to prove to the entire world
That in these arms a Roman blood still flows,
And that in our hearts we proudly keep a name
Triumphant in all battles, the name of Trajan.


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Subject: Lyr Add: ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR
From: Helen
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:36 PM

The first line of the Oz anthem which was introduced in 1974 to replace God Save the Queen (I'm sure Quentin Crisp would have been the only person on the planet sorry to hear about that!) was changed from "Australia's sons" to "Australians all".

The main trouble with this song is that it is hard to sing. According to the official government site where I found the lyrics - because I don't know the words past the first 2 lines, because we sang it as an oddity when I was at school, and no-one knows the words unless they are paid to sing them at the footy or something - extensive research was done and this one was the clear cut winner. Well, it *can* sound good when a real singer sings it, but...

Also, it's an embarrassment reading these two lines given the illegal immigrant detention centre & Tampa affair scandals.

For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;

Helen

ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR

Australians all let us rejoice,
For we are young and free;
We've golden soil and wealth for toil;
Our home is girt by sea;
Our land abounds in nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare;
In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair.

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross
We'll toil with hearts and hands;
To make this Commonwealth of ours
Renowned of all the lands;
For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair.


Advance Australia Fair http://www.pm.gov.au/aust_focus/nat_symbols/anthem.htm


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:44 PM

There can't really be a British national anthem since "Britain" isn't a nation, it's an assembly of nations. That doesn't mean it shouldn't have an anthem.

Personally I'd vote for this one - the suffragette anthem.


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Subject: Lyr Add: OI, SUOMI, KATSO
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:47 PM

Lloyd Stonee's 'Finlandia' appears in the Folk Tradition column of the current Singout! I love the song, but some history may be in order. Sibelius authorized the only official libretto to his song in 1942, (which follows) and it is rather bellicose, but remember, Finland was occupied by the Nazis at the time.

OI, SUOMI, KATSO
by Veikko Antero Koskenniemi, 1940

Oi, Suomi, katso, sinun päiväs' koittaa,
Yön uhka karkoitettu on jo pois,
Ja aamun kiuru kirkkaudessa soittaa,
Kuin itse taivahan kansi sois'.
Yön vallat aamun valkeus jo voittaa,
Sun päiväs' koittaa, oi synnyinmaa.
Oi, nouse, Suomi, nosta korkealle,
Pääs' seppelöimä suurten muistojen.
Oi, nouse, Suomi, näytit maailmalle,
Sa että karkoitit orjuuden,
Ja ettet taipunut sa sorron alle,
On aamus' alkanut, synnyinmaa.

Tr. J. Mark Sugars and Frank, 1998

Finland, behold, your day has now come dawning;
Banished is night, its menace gone with light,
Larks' song again in morning-brightness ringing,
Filling the air to heaven's great height,
And morning's glow, night's darkness overcoming;
Your day is come, o my native land.
O Finland, rise, stand proud, the future facing,
Your valiant deeds recalling, once again;
O Finland rise, in the world's sight erasing
From your fair brows vile slavery's stain.
You were not broken by oppressors ruling;
Your morn has come, o my native land.

There have been hundreds of other verses set to this music, including a piece in the Lutheran Hymnal called Be Still My Soul. Lloyd Stone, a hymn writer hymnself :-), born 1912, first wrote these lines 'This is my song' in 1934, published in 1981, and recorded by the Indigo Girls on their first album, as well as by Susan Osborne, Dar Williams and others. It is sometimes now referred to as traditionally those that have lost the connection to the author. I think it only appropriate that Lloyd Stone be remembered for writing what I, on my radio show, (using the Indigo Girls version as my theme song), referred to as 'The Rational Anthem', and hope everyone learns to sing it on any occasion that seems appropriate, or daily, whichever comes first!

Bill Kennedy


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Metchosin
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:59 PM

Well I for one would love to see the Canadian National Anthem changed. I don't sing it that often anymore but when I was a student in school and had to sing it at every assembly and gathering, it used to piss me off that somehow males rated as far as their country went, but we females didn't. Doesn't bother me anymore, but for any young girl growing up in this country, I think its the least we can do.

The fact that the thing has been dicked with 23 times, once more couldn't hurt. Especially since the original words were not sexist, but were changed to "our sons command" during WWI to honour our troops overseas in Europe.

Go for it and its about bloody time too.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: allie kiwi
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 05:00 PM

I think one of the troubles with national anthems (aside from the sexism or irrelevance of the words) is that because everyone has to sing it at once it is never in a key to suit everyone. Same with church hymns.

A song does not sound good when sung by a third of the population screeching away because it's too high, another third singing one part ok but then dropping or raising an octave to try and sing the rest. Unfortunately, the ones who are having to do both of those things are usually the only ones who know all the words!

Allie


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 06:35 PM

"Advance Australia Fair" - not a patch on Waltzing Matilda, which most people assume is the Ozzie anthem anyway.

How can an island advance anywhere anyway? I hate mealy-mouthed anthems without a bit of swagger.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Gareth
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 06:44 PM

Kevin - never heard of continental drift ?

BTW what were the anti Scots verses of God Save the Queen/King - now confined to the "memory hole"

Speaking as a Welshman are we going to PC this to "Land of my Birth Parents ...."

Nevermind I recall one lunatic who wanted to rename Manchester to Personchester.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 06:51 PM

"We are sailing, we are sailing, we are sailing cross the sea..."

Now that could be a fair old anthem. No more meaningless than the rest, and I think they need to be a bit meaningless if they are going to work. (Like that Romanian one.)


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 07:05 PM

I think the United States should toss the whole Strnagled banner bit and adopt "Teach Your Children Well....", or whatever its proper name is, by Sushie Rhoads and arranged by Crosby Stills and Nash, as a national anthem.

You, who are on the road
Must have a code,
That you can live by....
And so, become yourselves 
Because the past 
Is just a goodbye. 

Teach your children well 
Their father's hell 
Does slowly go by; 
And feed them on your dreams 
The ones they pick 
The ones you'll know by. 

Don't you ever ask them why 
If they told you, you would cry 
So just look at them and sigh 
And know they love you

But it would never get past the Republicans, sorry to say! :>)

A


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: SharonA
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 07:12 PM

Gee, Amos, y'mean that last line wasn't part of the anthem? *BG*


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 07:23 PM

LOL!!

BTW the song was not by Sushie Rhoads...I just found the lyrics in an article she'd written. Mea culpa. I believe it is just credited to CS&N.

A


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 07:38 PM

I thought the first line of the Aussie national anthem was, "Once a jolly swagman sat beside a billibong," ;-)

And I always thought it was pretty telling that here in the U.S. our anthem is all about "bombs bursting in air"---if not on the ground.

Personally, if the Aussie anthem actually was "Waltzing Matilda", a fine song about a hobo that to survive steals a sheep and rather than get caught, drowns himself, I would much prefer it to any war-glorifying rant like "The Star Spangled Banner".

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Joe_F
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 08:02 PM

"God Save the Queen" used to contain the wonderful stanza

O Lord our God, arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall.
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks:
On Thee our hopes we fix.
God save us all!

It is true that "The Star-Spangled Banner" is a war song, but at least it piously sticks to defense. The "Marseillaise" is really bloodthirsty.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 08:10 PM

The Ozzies would do well to choose "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda".

Or maybe if they really insist on the original swagman ballad, they could give "TBPWM" to New Zealand? (ducks and runs out stage left....)

A


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 08:41 PM

Nobody ever started a war because they had a national anthem that can be termed bloodfthirsty.

Your "Star Spangled Banner" is about a small country (in terms of armed might) being attacked by a powerful country and holding on by its fingernails. The bombs and the rocket are British bombs and rockets raining down on an infant United States which hadn't as yet taken over someone else's continent. It's meant to be an anti-imperialist anthem.

As for it being hard to sing - hell, the tune is a drinking song. If you insist on trying to sing it when you're cold stone sober, no wonder it doesn't come out right.

Mock heroic anthems, genuine heroic anthems, songs about struggle, love songs, songs with currently meaningless historical references; even touristy stuff about how pretty the place is - they can all work. Anything except high-minded lyrics saying how we all love each other. Sometimes songs like that can be good songs; I don't think they can ever be good anthems.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:00 PM

The best Canadian anthem was "The Maple Leaf Forever" which was wildly incorrect. Great song, great words. Someone should have a go at it again. Although it is worth saying that "O Canada" is pretty good to sing -- witness the spontaneous singing at the hockey finals of the Olympics. Hard to imagine a spontaneous dose of "The Star Spangled Banner" (where is Whitney Houston when you need her?)

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:18 PM

The trouble with that Star Spangled Banner seems to be people trying to sing it in that over-inflated hyped-up way. At least every time I have come across it on the telly that has seemed to be the case. Sung straight and with a disregard for tearing emotions out of the lines, and I can't see why it's really any harder than the Marseilleise or the Soldiers Song.

Sing it as a folk song, which is what drinking songs are. A Rugby team in a pub wouldn't have any problems with it, if they'd ever had any reason to learn it. They play Rugby in Canada. (They had a team in the Rugby Union World Cup). They could send a team down and show them how it should be sung. (As well as demonstrating a rather better version of football. But maybe saying that counts as trolling.)


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:20 PM

...but at least it piously sticks to defense.

Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just.

And this be our motto--"In God is our Trust"


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST,John Gray (at work )
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:33 PM

Advance Australia Fair. What a joke for an anthem. It works better than mogadons on me. Don't even know the words - not going to learn them - don't even stand when its played.
I've done numerous straw polls with young people, 16-25 years old, asking them if they know the meaning of these lyrics ; advance Australia fair, girt by sea and, in joyful strains. About one in ten can give me a half reasonable answer. So, what's the point in having it as an anthem when the majority of the people don't even know what the lyrics mean. I reckon, in joyful strains, means being told you've won the lottery whilst you're badly constipated.
Yes, Waltzing Matilda would be much better or even I Am Australian, a song written by Bruce Woodley, ex Seekers fame. A great tune with great lyrics, maybe someone with the requisite equipment can post it.

JG/FME


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:34 PM

You won't see the Star spangled banner being sung drunk if our Attorney General has his way. He had the statue of Justice covered because it showed a wee bit of bosom. The man could not get elected running against a dead guy so now we have to have him running the Justice Department. There is soomething tterribly wrong here (Oh Yeah! It's the Neo-Reaganistas!) I'm for making our national anthem "This Land is Your Land" by Woodie Guthrie but the Republicans won't go for that either Neil


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:58 PM

Actually beating a dead man isn't that easy. I'm sure Bush would have lost by even more votes if Al Gore had had the foresight to kick his clogs during the run-up to the election.

And that probably goes for most politicians. After all, people say much nicer things about them when they've gone to glory.

Sooner or later someone's going to twig that. Fake a death a couple of days before the election, get swept into office on the strength of people listening to the people saying what a great guy you were. Then miraculously emerge with a smart cover story about mistaken identity.

Rather radical thread drift there. But to get back on topic again - Greg F's logic seems a bit suspect to me. If you are defending yourself against attack, you hope your side will ultimately be victorious. In other words that you will "conquer". And that is at least how the war of 1812 was interpreted in the USA.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 10:06 PM

"This Land Is Your Land" would be a superb national anthem. It's inclusive and passionate at the same time. It was once a protest song, in its original version.

Most national anthems are by their very nature rather grandiose and martial, emphasizing the divisions of humanity...and most of them are anachronistic, out of date in the sentiments they proclaim.

As for the Canadian one, the words have been tinkered with quite a bit in an attempt to offend no one...which I find offensive! :-) But I'm not too excited about the issue. Who really cares?

I don't know what the words were in the old Soviet national anthem (probably the same old silly stuff as usual), but the music was really magnificent! I used to look forward to hearing it at Russia-Canada hockey games. They generally just played the music, rather than having a singer do it.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 12:02 AM

I'm quite partial to The Star Spangled Banner, with being a Marylander and an 1812 Reenactor. It IS quite a range strecher.

Here's my proposal: During "peace" times we declare that America the Beautiful to be our anthem. As a sabre rattling gesture, we periodically declare The Star Spangled Banner to be the anthem...

Look Out, Saddam, or we'll let loose with To Anacreon in Heaven!

WD
(<--Insert pithy tagline here-->)


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Metchosin
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 01:06 AM

As I mentioned the Canadian anthem has been changed 23 times, Little Hawk, and despite that, it still is exclusive of more than half the population of Canada.

The feeling I had when I sang it when I was young was sort of, I imagine, how the Canadian men's hockey team might have felt singing Helen Reddy's "I Am Woman" before each game. Huh?


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: alison
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 03:16 AM

scroll down to the bottom for I am Australian... a wonderful song

but Eric Bogle's Shelter still gets my vote for what should be our national anthem
especially poigniant for the lines

"To the homeless and the hungry may you always open doors,
may the restless and the weary find safe harbour on your shores."

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 03:54 AM

THE ANTI SCOTTISH VERSE IS:-

LORD GRANT THAT MARSHALL WADE
MAY BY THY MIGHTY AID VICTORY BRING,
MAY HE SEDITION AND LIKE TORRENT RUSH
REBELLIOUS SCOTS TO CRUSH GOD SAVE THE KING/QUEEN

And they expect the Scots to sing the National Anthem.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST,Offspring
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 04:14 AM

McGrath of Harlow write There can't really be a British national anthem since "Britain" isn't a nation, it's an assembly of nations. That doesn't mean it shouldn't have an anthem

I *love* the idea of the British Conglomerate anthem!


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Hrothgar
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 04:15 AM

That was the first and third verses of "Advance Australia Fair" up above. the second verse goes:

When gallant Cook from Albion sailed
To trace wide oceans o'er.
True British courage bore him on,
till he landed on our shore.
Then here he raised Old England's flag,
The standard of the brave,
With all her faults, we love her still,
Britannia rules the wave.
In joyful strains then let us sing
"Advance Asutralia fair."

P. D. McCormick, 1878. It certainly reflects Victorian times and the greatest emoire the world has known. Have three guesses why nobody sings that verse much!

It is a solid, fairly majestic tune, though, and despite what the proponents of "Waltzing Matilda" might say, I'd prefer not to have national anthem about the suicide of s sheep thief. The real solution is probably to get a decent set of words to either tune, with the popuar vote probably being for "Waltzing Matilda."


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 05:04 AM

Just two 'nationally anthem' thingies. In the 50's,60's & into the 70's. Certain venues in Northern Ireland had in the contracts of bands that played that they must finish with 'God Save the Queen' i had a wonderfull John Mayall's Bluesbreakers Live Album which had Eric Clapton and all having to play this otherwise they wern't going to get paid.Also during the late sixties the Republic of Ireland chose a soccer player from QPR who had a Italian surname but had a great granny who was Oirish. When he played his first match they were lined up for the anthems and he turned to his colleague and said 'Bloody hell their anthem goes on a bit' to be met with the response 'Shut up you dozy pillock it's our anthem'


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 05:12 AM

Helen - Advance Australia Fair

"Also, it's an embarrassment reading these two lines given the illegal immigrant detention centre & Tampa affair scandals.

For those who've come across the seas We've boundless plains to share;"

No more bloody embarrassing than the following lines from the proposed alternative from alison:

"Eric Bogle's Shelter still gets my vote for what should be our national anthem especially poigniant for the lines

"To the homeless and the hungry may you always open doors, may the restless and the weary find safe harbour on your shores."

Both about a country whose politicians unofficially maintained a hidden policy of apartheid for decades - nice one.

Kevin - go read about the War of 1812 particularly about one of the main protagonists during the early stages - the Indian leader Tecumseh(Sp??) - He fought on the British side against the Americans. Britain did not invade, or even threaten to invade America - It was America that attacked Canada for extremely self interested motives of their own at all times throughout the conflict they held military superiority - Hells teeth they fighting on home ground - thankfully not very well.

"Your "Star Spangled Banner" is about a small country (in terms of armed might) being attacked by a powerful country and holding on by its fingernails. The bombs and the rocket are British bombs and rockets raining down on an infant United States which hadn't as yet taken over someone else's continent. It's meant to be an anti-imperialist anthem."

Don't know if the date rings any bells Kev, but if memory serves me correctly there was a chap called Napoleon wandering around Europe at the time knocking seven shades of crap out of everybody. The Americans decided on having a go at at driving the British out of Canada, but more importantly for them it gave them the excuse to break a treaty previously made with the Indians that would allow them (America) to expand westwards into the Warbash-Ohio Basin. Preoccupied elsewhere Britain sent minimal forces to protect Canada, so your statement about poor feeble infant America standing up to the imperialist might of Britain just was not the case - this might not fall in with your dearer held beliefs, but those are facts. With the asbolute minimum of support the Canadians of that time i.e. Brits, Frenchmen and Indians. Successfully fought off numerous invasion attempts during 1812 and 1814. The Star Spangled Banner relates to the raid and attack on Fort Henry by British forces stationed in Canada. The raid went on to sack Washington, burning the White House in the process. Having accomplished their mission those forces withdrew.

Interesting side line. When President Reagan visited the UK and attended a dinner given him by Margaret Thatcher at Apsley House he should have felt very much at home. The dinner service he used was that taken from the White House during that raid. It was then presented to the Duke of Wellington (Apsley House was his London home gifted to him by the nation).

In one of your posts above you say:

"I hate mealy-mouthed anthems..."

Then earlier you posted the text of what, in your opinion, you believe to be the best national anthem - that of Romania.

Having read through the lyrics - Boy they don't come any more mealy mouthed than that!!! - It's a bloody wonder anyone can sing it and keep a straight face. Romania's worst enemies were themselves - we are talking about the country that allied itself with Nazi Germany aren't we?

As for God Save the Queen - I take a sort of pride as a Scot for our mention in one of the original verses, where the exhortation is ".....rebellious Scots to crush". Brilliant at least they realised we were on the pitch.

Amos - How could you!!! *LOL* - "Teach Your Children Well". With that as a national anthem it would have the added attraction for the rest of the world in watching American athletes at the Olympics running backwards in order to ensure that they do not have to take part in any award ceremony.

On national anthems - I'm with Billy 'The Big Yin' - The theme music from "The Archers" should be Britains national anthem, nice jolly tune with a bit of bounce in it - would love to see how the English, and I stress English, football hooligans get revved up on that when it gets played at the World, or European, Cup competitions.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 07:08 AM

I hate the whole anthem thing...........Just seems to me that you oughta' feel good singin' yours and all. So many of them are just packed with jingoistic crappola and pretentious crud.............

Why don't we here in the US adopt "This Land" or probably more acceptable "America the Beautiful" or any number of things that make you feel good and are fun to sing? Beats me..........

And the Aussies? "AAF" is just about the ultimate in contrived crap. Any number of other suggestions have a lot more in both tunes and words. Now I understand that there may be problems with "Waltzing Matilda" from several standpoints, but damn if it ain't really inspiring to hear a bunch of Aussies spontaneously bursting into it as they did in Newport in '83 when Australia II won the "America's Cup." Everyday when AII came in from a race, no matter whether they won or lost, the piers, breakwater, and the docks just EXPLODED with "Waltzing Matilda." You had to be there to believe it. Hell, A lot of US were singing it too....You felt that good!!! (and Connor is an ass anyway) Any song so associated with a country and one that makes folks seem to feel so damn good, NEEDS to be an anthem.......no matter what it's about and no matter how PC it isn't!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 07:21 AM

For any country dissatisfied with their currrent anthem(or any newly emerging countries wanting something suitable) I have written one which I think takes care of all necessary sentiments. " I love(insert name of country), I love it day and night/ We are bloody wonderful and all the rest are shite". It's short ( doesn't go on and on like Star Spangled Banner), to the point, and I don't think anybody could disagree with the contents.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: sian, west wales
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 07:54 AM

A minor addition to Teribus's exhortation: if memory serves, the attack from Canada wasn't strictly speaking on the White House. Wasn't it painted pink at the time?

sian


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Subject: Lyr Add: YOUR STATE'S NAME HERE (L & P Berryman)
From: Grab
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 08:37 AM

One song everyone's missed. If you've not heard it, she sings the main bits while he sings the bits in brackets.

ARTIST: Lou and Peter Berryman
TITLE: Your State's Name Here

Sometimes when the grass is blown by the breeze
There's a far away look in the leaves of the trees
A memory returns, heartbreakingly clear
Of a place I call home, [Your state's name here]

No sky could be deeper, no water so clear
As back in the meadows of [Your state's name here]
I'm gonna go back, although I don't know when
There's no other place like [Your state's name again]

{Chorus:}
Oh [Your state's name here], Oh [Again], what a state
I have not been back since [a reasonable date]
Where the asphalt grows soft in July every year
In the warm summer mornings of [Your state's name here]

My grampa would come and turn on the game
And fall asleep drinking [Your local beer's name]
While gramma would sing in the garden for hours
To all of [The names of indigeonous flowers]

The songs that she sang were somewhat obscure
She learned from the local townspeople I'm sure
The language they use is not very clear
Like [Place a colloquialism right here].

{Refrain} I'd love to wake up where [The state songbird] sings
Where they manufacture [The names of some things]
Like there on the bumper, a sticker so clear
An I, then a heart, and then [Your state's name here]

Whisper it soft, it's a song to my ear
[Your state's name here, your state's name here]
It's there I was born & it's there I'll grow old
By the rivers of blue and the arches of gold...

{Refrain}


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 08:47 AM

Kevin (McGrath)says, "As for [The Star-Spangled Banner] being hard to sing - hell, the tune is a drinking song. If you insist on trying to sing it when you're cold stone sober, no wonder it doesn't come out right."

Yeah, the Major League Baseball folks have been doing it wrong for decades: they really should have everyone stand and sing the song at the end of the game, after everyone's been drinking beer for nine innings! *G*


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: AKS
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 09:01 AM

First re: Bill Kennedy, a minor;-) correction: Finland was NEVER occupied during nor after the WWII, neither by the nazis nor by the Soviet.

Koskenniemi wrote the libretto to Finlandia shortly after the Winter War (Dec 1939 - Mar -40). Finland had just survived a massive offence by the Soviet Union, and was forced to cede a considerable amount of territory ('the ceded Karelia') and relocate the +400.000 people (c. 10 % of all) that had lived there. That - added the fact that Finland had to do it on her own; practically no help from outside - is what explains the mood of the text.

Yes, I'd much rather hear Finlandia - if any, in that respect I second Spaw - as our anthem. It is a fine piece of composition alltogether, emotional, but not especially military by nature and can be played as short or full version, or sung, to suit any occasion. I think most Finns agree that it does sound "finnish".

On the other hand, I find very little finnishness in J. L. Runeberg's (poet) and F. Pacius' (composer, originally a German who came to teach music in Helsinki) "Maamme" (=our land, written and sung originally in Swedish 'O, fosterland'). It's simply boring! Also it is quite commonly believed here that our Friedrich chap didn't really bother to compose it at all, he simply took an (boring) old Bavarian drinking song that he thought might fit into the rhyme ... The Estonians have the same melody in their anthem ("Mu isamaa" 'my father's land') as well.

And finally a quiz question: What was Biafra's (now part of Nigeria) national anthem during her short period of indepence some 30 y's ago? (Finlandia)

cheers AKS


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE SOLDIER'S SONG
From: The Pooka
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 09:02 AM

Care to sanitize, pacify, update & "de-exaggerate" this one? :)

The Soldier's Song

We'll sing a song, a soldier's song,
With cheering rousing chorus,
As round our blazing fires we throng,
The starry heavens o'er us;
Impatient for the coming fight,
And as we wait the morning's light,
Here in the silence of the night,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Chorus:
Soldiers are we whose lives are pledged to Ireland;
Some have come from a land beyond the wave.
Sworn to be free,
No more our ancient sire land
Shall shelter the despot or the slave.
Tonight we man the gap of danger
In Erin's cause, come woe or weal
'Mid cannons' roar and rifles peal,
We'll chant a soldier's song

In valley green, on towering crag,
Our fathers fought before us,
And conquered 'neath the same old flag
That's proudly floating o'er us.
We're children of a fighting race,
That never yet has known disgrace,
And as we march, the foe to face,
We'll chant a soldier's song

Chorus

Sons of the Gael! Men of the Pale!
The long watched day is breaking;
The serried ranks of Inishfail
Shall set the Tyrant quaking.
Our camp fires now are burning low;
See in the east a silv'ry glow,
Out yonder waits the Saxon foe,
So chant a soldier's song.

Chorus


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 09:11 AM

Hi there Greg - Your offering is definitely THE BEST national anthem - Absolutely Brilliant!!!

Thanks Sian, I'd no idea what colour it was. There was an old wife's tale, totally incorrect, that as a result of the sacking of Washington, the walls of the Presidential residence was so severely scorched that it could not be cleaned. As a solution to the problem they painted it white - hence White House.

I love(insert name of country), I love it day and night
We are bloody wonderful and all the rest are shite".

Brilliant - absolutely - Brilliant.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THIS IS MY SONG, O GOD OF ALL THE NATIONS
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 09:43 AM

Thanks, AKS, yes, I wrote that a bit hastily, I knew the lyrics were written in response to something going on in the thirties, didn't think it through or look it up, the way I have to do more of these days (if we knew all the things we've forgotten, boy we'd know a lot!) 'O must have been the Nazis', I mis-remembered. Yes, the Winter War.

And I forgot to include the lyrics of Lloyd Stone, for those that don't know them, and to also mention Bill Staines recording among the others. So, here is the
'Rational Anthem'

The first two verses are Lloyd Stones, 1934, the third verse was written by Georgia Harkness in 1939, and is much more religious to my taste, it is included in some Hymnals, but not sung on the recordings mentioned. I would stick with the two verses of Stone's, but I add it here for thouroughness.

THIS IS MY SONG, O GOD OF ALL THE NATIONS
Lloyd Stone
Tune: FINLANDIA, Jean Sibelius, 1899

This is my song, O God of all the nations,
A song of peace for lands afar and mine.
This is my home, the country where my heart is;
Here are my hopes, my dreams, my holy shrine;
But other hearts in other lands are beating
With hopes and dreams as true and high as mine.

My country's skies are bluer than the ocean,
And sunlight beams on cloverleaf and pine;
But other lands have sunlight too, and clover,
And skies are everywhere as blue as mine.
O hear my song, thou God of all the nations,
A song of peace for their land and for mine.

later third verse -
(This is my prayer, O Ruler of all nations:
Let thy reign come; on earth thy will be done.
In peace may all earth's people draw together,
And hearts united learn to live as one.)
O hear my prayer, thou God of all the nations;
Myself I give thee; let thy will be done.


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: CapriUni
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 11:03 AM

Pooka wrote:Care to sanitize, pacify, update & "de-exaggerate" this one? :)

Well, I don't know about "de-exaggerating" -- Hyperbole has its place, too, you know...

The Soldier's Song

We'll sing a song, a soldier's song,
change to: "We'll sing a song, a people's song ?

With cheering rousing chorus, (that's fine, I think)
As round our blazing fires we throng, (ditto)
The starry heavens o'er us; (ditto)
Impatient for the coming fight,
change to: We're eager for to do what's right

And as we wait the morning's light,
(fine) Here in the silence of the night,


We'll chant a soldier's song. people's song


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Subject: RE: Politically incorrect national anthems
From: CapriUni
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 11:09 AM

(oops!) I missed a closing angle bracket. My comment about the "Silence of the night" line" was that with all this rousing singing going on, the night isn't going to be very silent. ;-) But you need something there for the rhyme scheme...


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