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Origin: Shenandoah

DigiTrad:
OH, MY ROLLING RIVER
SHENANDOAH


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Shenandoah (Fisherman's Friends) (21)
'Singing 'Shenandoah' for Brits (55)
Lyr Add: 'Shenandoah' in the U.S. army (9)
Lyr Add: Shenandoah (32)
Shenandoah Origin (29)
Lyr Req: Shenandoah en francais (7)
Help: Land of Misery (Shenandoah) (10)
Shenandoah (11) (closed)
Shenandoah and free melodies (8)
Origin: Shenandoah (8) (closed)
Lyr Req: Shenandoah (12) (closed)


Lighter 09 Mar 18 - 08:22 PM
GUEST,Ann 04 Feb 16 - 11:49 AM
GUEST,Ann 04 Feb 16 - 11:49 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 Jul 13 - 01:35 PM
Gibb Sahib 26 Jul 11 - 02:24 AM
Gibb Sahib 26 Jul 11 - 02:16 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Jul 11 - 10:25 PM
Snuffy 17 Oct 10 - 02:11 PM
Lighter 17 Oct 10 - 10:18 AM
John Minear 17 Oct 10 - 09:11 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Oct 10 - 11:20 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Oct 10 - 10:49 PM
Slag 16 Oct 10 - 10:45 PM
GUEST,HB out west 16 Oct 10 - 09:21 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 12 Feb 10 - 12:14 PM
GUEST,Steve O'Terry 11 Feb 10 - 08:58 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 May 09 - 08:40 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 04 Oct 08 - 08:11 AM
Art Thieme 03 Oct 08 - 08:33 PM
GUEST,knowitall 20 Jun 08 - 06:16 PM
GUEST,Jim Longley 27 Dec 07 - 09:38 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Jun 07 - 02:46 PM
masato sakurai 15 Jun 07 - 04:53 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Jun 07 - 05:50 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 12 Jun 07 - 02:06 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 Jun 07 - 05:58 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 07 Apr 07 - 05:06 PM
Lighter 03 Dec 06 - 04:27 PM
GUEST,bjtinney 03 Dec 06 - 03:33 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Dec 06 - 05:47 PM
GUEST,Jo Jo Tater 02 Dec 06 - 05:25 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Dec 06 - 04:07 PM
GUEST,Jo Jo Tater 02 Dec 06 - 03:25 PM
JedMarum 27 Sep 06 - 11:49 PM
Nigel Parsons 26 Sep 06 - 03:47 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Sep 06 - 03:37 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Sep 06 - 03:36 PM
JedMarum 20 Sep 06 - 12:30 PM
JedMarum 20 Sep 06 - 12:27 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Sep 06 - 11:50 PM
GUEST,Someinterest - Connecticut 19 Sep 06 - 12:25 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Aug 06 - 11:29 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Aug 06 - 11:11 PM
Rex 02 Aug 06 - 02:55 PM
GUEST,Jed on a borrowed PC 02 Aug 06 - 08:44 AM
GUEST 01 Aug 06 - 08:05 PM
Charlie Baum 02 Mar 06 - 02:44 PM
GUEST,Lighter 17 Dec 05 - 09:35 AM
masato sakurai 16 Dec 05 - 09:27 PM
GUEST,heididoiron@msn.com 16 Dec 05 - 08:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Mar 18 - 08:22 PM

Nice performance of new folkie lyrics, in spite of the unlikely assertion that the song probably comes from the 1790s and was brought West by Lewis & Clark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oigaOkSBhH0


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Ann
Date: 04 Feb 16 - 11:49 AM

There are several different versions of this song. One version may be about Shenandoah Valley derived from the Civil War. "I long to see her." Another version of this song the lyrics may refer to a run away slave missing his love one.

Other versions may be about a fur trader who has fallen in love with a duaghter of an Indian Chief.

The song no matter what set of lyrics are put to it tells a story of love.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Ann
Date: 04 Feb 16 - 11:49 AM

There are several different versions of this song. One version may be about Shenandoah Valley derived from the Civil War. "I long to see her." Another version of this song the lyrics may refer to a run away slave missing his love one.

Other versions may be about a fur trader who has fallen in love with a duaghter of an Indian Chief.

The song no matter what set of lyrics are put to it tells a story of love.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:35 PM

Lyr. Add; Shenandoah
From W. B. Whall, Sea Songs and Shanties

Solo
Missouri, she's a mighty river
Refrain
Away you rolling river
Solo
The redskin' camp lies on its border
Refrain
Ah-ha I'm bound away 'cross the wide Missouri

The white man loved the Indian maiden,
With notions his canoe was laden.

"o, Shenandoah, I love your daughter,
I'll take her 'cross yon rolling water."

The chief disdained the trader's dollars:
"My daughter never you shall follow."

At last there came a Yankee skipper,
He winked his eye, and he tipped his flipper.

He sold the chief that fire water,
And 'cross the river he stole his daughter.

"O, Shenandoah, I long to hear you,
Across that wide and rolling river."

Uncertain whether Whall remembered these verses from his days at sea, or heard them from "a Harrow boy."

Sixth Ed., 1927. Note: Songs added to the Second Edition, 1912.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 02:24 AM

Incidentally, I played the B. Whalers' rendition in my World Music class last semester, and I was disappointed that none of the students (So. California) claimed to recognize the "Shenandoah" tune.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 02:16 AM

Video of the Whalers performing the song posted last by Q:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq4SMyj4R_I

I shot it June 2010 at Mystic.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:25 PM

Lyr. Add: OH MY ROLLING RIVER
Rowing song, St. Vincent

Solid fas' I come to tell you,
Hurrah, my rolling river.
"Solid fas'," our captain cry out,
We are bound away from this world of misery.

Nobody knows about our toilin',
Hurrah, my rolling river.
Only God Almighty knows about our danger,
We are bound away from this world of misery.

"Whale ahead," my little gunman cry out,
Hurrah, my rolling river.
"Solid fas'," my little captain answer,
We are bound away from this world of misery.

And on our way she roll and shiver,
Hurrah, my rolling river.
Down in our way she sport dirty water,
We are bound away from this world of misery.

"Make her so bold," my strokeman cry out,
Hurrah, my rolling river.
"Haul an' gi' me," my centerman cry out,
We are bound away from this world of misery.

Nobody knows about our hardship,
Hurrah, my rolling river.
Our shipowner she don't know our hardship,
We are bound away from this world of misery.

"Solid fas'," my gunman cry out,
Hurrah, my rolling river.
"Solid fas'," my little second bow'e cry out,
We are bound away from this world of misery.

Misery into the ocean,
Hurrah, my rolling river.
Misery in the deep wide ocean,
We are bound away from this world of misery.

With musical score.

"You see, when you strike the fish, anyhow, the captain say "Solid fas'." Sometime the bowman in action already pullin' up the fish. He turn to the captain so the captain have better position to see....... Soon as somebody see the fish, 'e say "Spout-o!" And then we blackfish boys, we start to pull, and I say "Draw-way, boys, draw way." Then the boys start to chant dey, pulling hard....."

In the whaling days, much of the work was done on boats, often following a whale far from the ship. Some of these practices, and song lines, seem passed down from those days in these songs of Antilles fishermen.

Collected at Barouaillie, St. Vincent.
Roger D. Abrahams, 1974, Deep the Water, Shallow the Shore, American Folklore Society, published by the University of Texas Press.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 02:11 PM

The Carpenter Collection index lists only 3 items for "Shenadoah", but over 30 (including duplications) for "Shanadore".

One collected from Alex Henderson of Tayport, Dundee bears the notation Mixture of Sally Brown, while another from Henderson is noted Alternative title "Shallow in the Morning". Mr Henderson is noted Shipped 1885; left sea 1902; was in American ships.

I'm not sure if this clears anything up, or adds to the confusion.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 10:18 AM

Yeah, I hate to say it, but my later research into Alden's shanties (on one of those other threads) makes it very unlikely that he'd known "Shenandoah" or *any* others for "thirty" years.

The most we can say is that Alden's source or sources told him in the '70s or '80s, or gave him the impression, that they'd known them all in the '50s.

Shanties were not a subject that nineteenth-century writers thought they needed to be very precise about. They were just songs sung by laboring sailors - for centuries as far as they knew.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: John Minear
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 09:11 AM

There is some extended discussion of the possible origins and development of "Shenandoah" here, which goes on for about 10 or 11 posts (This is a long thread and takes a while to come up):

thread.cfm?threadid=126347#2877977

And a followup note here:

thread.cfm?threadid=126347#2885057


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 11:20 PM

Slag, that Saray- Saree line is in one of the reported versions, but I have no idea now where I saw it.
Someone here should know.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 10:49 PM

See my post of 05 May 09 and earlier posts by Lighter and Masato. The "Shenadore" version was reported by Alden in 1882, and he said it was known to him from 30 years earlier, thus ca. 1850.
Mention of San Francisco in one of these versions of the sailor's song also suggests that time period.

The 'wide Missouri' likely refers to Missouri territory, not the river.
Did Shenadore derive from Shenandoah? Possibly.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Slag
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 10:45 PM

This is by far, one of the best threads I've read to date here at the 'cat. Most of it appears scholarly, at the very least knowledgeable.

Intuitively I would opt for a rowing song as it has a flexible cadence, a roll if you will, for those long strokes together that a team must make if they want to get anywhere.

Now my two cents: I remember my Dad singing this song in the mid 50's. I'm not sure but the version I remember had the words "for seven long years, I courted Saray (ser-ee) A-way you rolling river and for seven more I've tried to leave her, A-way, I'm bound a-way across the wide Missouri". My Dad and his brothers were all great singers as was my Grandfather (beautiful tenor voice) and I'm told that my Great Grandfather was also a singer so there is a musical tradition that goes back quite far.

As to the origins of this most lovely song, I'll stay tuned. Thanks all.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,HB out west
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 09:21 PM

Here's a peice of documentary info that's interesting if not explanatory on this topic. I didn't notice it while scanning previous posts but may have just missed earlier references, because it would be surprising not to have this on here yet. So maybe this is old news, but there is a very famous (at one time, anyway) Pulitzer prize winning nonfiction book about the western fur trade in the late 18th and early 19th century entitled Across the Wide Missouri by Bernard De Voto, first published 1949. De Voto was a highly noted scholar and author of many books on American History. The frontispiece of the book presents a three verse version of the song he apparently thought was itself entitled Across the Wide Missouri. So he actually named his most famous book after the song, and the song is posted without any attribution or explanation about authorship or history,etc., traditional or otherwise. Considering that this guy was a famous historian, writer and educator and unquestionably wanted to be careful with information, documenting stuff assiduously, it seems that 1n 1949 he certainly thought that these were the lyrics of a very old traditional song indigenous to his subject. He didn't say that though, and of course he could have been wrong about it anyway. Here are the first lines of each verse as he chronicled them:

Oh, Shennydore, I long to hear you;

'Tis seven long years since I first seed 'ee;

Oh, Shennydore, I love your daughter;


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 12:14 PM

Anything that lasts this long and is so pervasive in the musical repertoire must contain very special qualities. "Shenandoah" seems a great example of the "folk process." Its roots may be lost in obscurity; perhaps originally an adaptation using the melody of a familiar nautical song. It has been "gentrified" with strings and choruses added, made into a theatrical and motion picture theme, played on a harmonica in numerous olf "B" westerns of the 1930's and '40's and sung around campfires ad nauseum.

Yet, though many verses and variants have undoubtedly been added, it remains a stalwart part of the folk song book and is still much loved. The melody is the key, at least to me. It speaks lyrically of longing and lonliness and could, even without words, convey those feelings.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Steve O'Terry
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 08:58 PM

Wow! I've had a ball reading through this thread today. I've recently discovered this melody (yes, I live a secluded life) and have recently been looking fervently for a definitive version of the lyrics. However, I have had no luck in such a search until I found this thread. Here I found a bunch of variants and I picked versions and stanzas that struck my fancy. After much borrowing and stealing and adding my own interpretation of the story I came up with the following lyrics. Nothing earthshattering here but I like this one a lot. I do it in couplets with breaks in between. My $.02:

Now the Missouri is a mighty river
Away, you rolling river
And you'll find Indian camps along her border
Away, I'm bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri

'Twas there I fell in love with a beautiful keegsquaw
Away, you rolling river
She was the daughter of Chief Shenandoah
Away, I'm bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri

It's been seven years since first I knew her
Away, you rolling river
Now she's in full bloom for a man to woo her
Away, I'm bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri

Oh Shenandoah, I've come to see you
Away, you rolling river
Oh Shenandoah, may I speak with you
Away, I'm bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri

Oh Shenandoah, I love your daughter
Away, you rolling river
I want to take her 'cross yon rolling water
Away, I'm bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri

Oh Shenandoah, with gifts I'm laden
Away, you rolling river
Please give me the hand of this fair maiden
Away, I'm bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri

Then Shenandoah said you must forsake her
Away, you rolling river
For an Indian brave has come to take her
Away, I'm bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri

Oh Shenandoah, I'll not deceive you
Away, you rolling river
Farewell my love I'm bound to leave you
Away, I'm bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 May 09 - 08:40 PM

The New York Times, January 27, 1884, p. 10.
Article, "Minstrelsy On the Sea. Songs Which the Real Sailor Sings at His Work."
.......
"The following is one of the most popular of the shanties:

Shanadore is my native valley
Chorus- Hurrah, rolling river.
Shanadore, I love your daughters,
Chorus- Ah-ha, bound away, 'cross the wide Missouri.
For seven long years I courted Sally,
Chorus- Hurrah, rolling river.
Seven more and I could not get her,
Chorus- Ah-ha, bound away, 'cross the wide Missouri.
Seven long years, I was a 'Frisco trader,
Chorus- Hurrah, rolling river.
Seven more I was a Texas Ranger,
Ah-ha, bound away, 'cross the wide Missouri.

"These unattractive lines were set by some dead-and-gone old salt, who must have been a genius in his way, to a wild air which is really beautiful."

Also mentioned- "Stormalong," "Lowlands Away," a transformed "Marching Through Georgia," the parlor song with the non-relevant chorus "I Was Bound for the Rio Grande," "Leave her, Johnnie, Leave Her," "Hanging Johnny," "Whiskey Is the Life of Man," "Paddy Doyle" (with variants), and one about the packet "Dreadnaught," a forecastle song.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 08:11 AM

I haven't read many of the above postings, but - if this hasn't been raised before - surely there is a big connection between Shanandoah and Shallow Brown


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 08:33 PM

I'm still partial to the version I sang and posted way up above in this thread. Whew, that was 1998--------------and we're still here.

Best regards to all of us survivors!

Art Thieme -- October 3rd, 2008


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,knowitall
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 06:16 PM

Shenandoah is PROBABLY an early 19th century shanty song that has evolved lyrically through the past two centuries to fit the needs of the musician performing the piece. The intoduction of the word Missouri into the piece most likely stems from the western migration of early pioneers, most probably from the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. It is inconcievable that such a popular old song would not have changed at all from its beginnings until now. It is impossible to portray an accurate history of such a piece without any verifiable written documentation


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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Jim Longley
Date: 27 Dec 07 - 09:38 PM

I only found out recently that my old friend from my Newport days (1967 thru 1970) had passed away. I sang a little country, folk, and sea chanty at the Black Pearl with Jody Gibson (I was just an unknown sailor) and he even invited me up on stage with him a couple of times to accompany him on songs that needed two instruments. Hadn't been back to Newport since 1991 and hadn't been in touch with Jody for longer than that - that city sure did change.

Is anyone here in touch with either of Jody's daughters? I would like to get in touch with Joyce if I could and I can't locate her on the web.


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:46 PM

The original is still unknown. Alden is one of many who speculated on the origin.

The Missouri also appears in early versions; it should be noted that the Missouri was an important artery, first for flatboats, but before the time of the Civil War was carrying a large number of steamboats. Several writers have speculated that the song originated with early shipping on the Missouri.

In 1852, the boilers of the steamboat Saluda exploded at Lexington and 200 passengers and crew perished. The ferry at Lexington, an important crossing, was started in 1819. The river was considered especially treacherous.

Lighter posted the lyrics from Alden in '05 in this thread. He noted that Alden, writing in 1882, speaks of the song being known 30 years before. Versions like Polly Brown (posted above) could point to another possible origin.


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: masato sakurai
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:53 AM

From "Sailor Songs," by William L. Alden (Harper's new monthly magazine. / Volume 65, Issue 386, July 1882, p. 283):
One of the best known of the windlass songs was the "Shanandore":

SOLO. Andante.
You Shanandore, I long to hear you.
CHORUS.
Hurrah, you rollin' river!
SOLO.
You Shanandore, I long to hear you.
CHORUS.
Ah, ha, you Shanandore.

This is clearly of negro origin, for the "Shanandore" is evidently the river Shenandoah. In course of time some shantyman of limited geographical knowledge, not comprehending that the "Shanandore" was a river, but conceiving that the first chorus required explanation, changed the second chorus. Thus the modified song soon lost all trace of the Shenandoah River, and assumed the following form, in which it was known to the last generation of sailors:

SOLO. Andante.
For seven long years I courted Sally.
CHORUS.
Hurrah, you rollin' river!
SOLO.
I courted Sally down in yon valley.
CHORUS.
Ah, ha! I'm bound away on the wild Missouri.


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:50 PM

Lyr. Add: SHANNYDORE

Oh, Shannydore, your good wife Carrie,
   Away, my rolling river!
She says your daughter I may marry,
   Ha ha, we're bound away
   Across the wide Missouri.

Oh, Shannydore, I love your daughter,
   Away, my rolling river!
I'll take her across the stormy water,
   Ha ha, we're bound away
   Across the wide Missouri.

Robert Frothingham, editor, 1924, "Songs of the Sea and Sailors' Chanteys," Houghton Mifflin.


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 02:06 PM

Unusual line in this verse of Shenandoah-Shenandore-Wide Missouri:

SHENANDORE (fragment)

Shenandore, I love your daughter;
Away you rolling river;
We're bound for the green fields and the mossy River;
Ah, ha, ha, I'm bound away across the wide Missouri.

William H. Smith Collection;, "Sung aboard vessels out of Liverpool, Nova Scotia, in the 70's, 80's and 90's,." Smith sailed aboard vessels carrying lumber and fish to the Caribbean and South America; also as a carpenter and rigger in Liverpool shipyards.

Edith Fowke, ed., 1981, "Sea Songs and Ballads from Nineteenth Century Nova Scotia: The William H. Smith and Fenwick Hatt Manuscripts," p. 24,; Folklorica, NY & Phila.


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Subject: Lyr. Add: The Wide Missouri
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:58 PM

As "The Wide Missouri," Shenandoah appeared in Davis and Tozer, 1887.

Lyr. Add: THE WIDE MISSOURI
Davis and Tozer, 1887, in
"Sailor's Songs or Chanties."

Solo
Oh, Polly Brown, I love your daughter,
Chorus
Away my rolling river!
Solo
Polly Brown, I love your daughter,
Chorus
Ah! ah! we're bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri.
2.
Solo
Oh, Polly's girl just took my fancy,
She's clipper built, her name is Nancy
3.
Solo
She lives alone in London City,
Perhaps you'll think it more's the pity
4.
Solo
I take her coral beads and laces,
I love to call her "Queen of Faces"
5.
Solo
The ship sails free, a gale is blowing,
The braces taut, the sheet's a-flowing   (sheets?)
6.
Solo
Oh! Polly Brown, I love you dearly,
My heart is yours, or very nearly

No. 4, p. 10, of the 3rd revised edition, 1910, but unchanged from the 1st Ed. of 1887.
Frederick J. Davis and Ferris Tozer, "Sailors' Songs or "Chanties," Boosey & Co., Ltd. London.


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Subject: Lyr. Add: Ô Schenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 05:06 PM

Version of the chantey, in French, from Scouts website, France.

Lyr. Add: Ô SCHENANDOAH
Scoutspremiere, France

T. = Chorus, S. = Solo
1.
S. Ô Schenandoah, sachem des Prairies
T. Au loin, sur le fleuve d'or,
S. Ô Schenandoah, sachem des Prairies.
T. Il part sur son canot, sur le grand Missouri.
2.
S. Ô Schenandoah, sachem des Prairies
T. Au loin, sur le fleuve d'or,
S. Ô Schenandoah, j'aime ton enfant.
T. Il part sur son canot, sur le grand Missouri.
3.
S. & Oh mon enfant, écoute ton coeur
T. Au loin, sur le fleuve d'or,
S. & Oh; mon enfant, écoute ton coeur.
T. Il part sur son canot, sur le grand Missouri.
4.
S. Oh laisse-nous partir tous les deux
T. Au loin, sur le fleuve d'or,
S. Oh laisse-nous ensemble être heureux.
T. Partir sur son canot, sur le grand Missouri.
5.
S. Oh mes enfants, soyez donc heureux
T. Au loin, sur le fleuve d'or,
S. Oh mes enfants que le Ciel vous garde..
T. Partir sur son canot, sur le grand Missouri.

Not sure, but there may be minor errors in the web text. I have not changed it.

Scout songs

Or direct to song-
Schenandoah


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 04:27 PM

W. B. Whall and John Robinson each knew at least one version of "Shenandoah" learned apparently in the 1860s, though neither writer is absolutely specific on this point. Robinson went to sea about 1859 and Whall a few years later. Both began learning shanties immediately.

Whall's version, not published till 1909 or '10, is similar to Hugill's version "b" that begins, "Oh, Missourah, she's a mighty water." Hugill says that this pattern, with its "skipper" and "maiden," was "very popular at sea."

Robinson's text, published in 1917, starts on a more familiar note, yet manages to be more "literary" as well as less interesting. The great melody must have encouraged various sets of words ad lib from early on:

Shenandoah! I long to hear you--
Hurrah! you rolling river.
Oh, Shenandoah! I long to hear you--
And hurrah! we're bound away!
On the wide Missouri!

Seven long years since I lost Dinah;
I've searched seven years. I cannot find her.

'Twas down in Shenandoah's sweet valley,
Where first I met and courted Sally.

To Shenandoah I am returning,
My heart for thee is ever burning.

When wide Missouri's call is over,
I will go back and stay forever.

Robinson says, "I have endeavored to carry the spirit and the sense of the originals into the words I have written down." How much of his "Shenandoah" is from the '60s and how much may result from later "reconstruction" is, regrettably, not clear.


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,bjtinney
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 03:33 PM

Wow! What amazing information and great references! Thank you to everyone who contributed. This song has a long tradition and history. I hope there is some way to preserve this information for the coming ages. If it is this hard to trace the information today, then in the next 50 years it will be impossible.

And I remember singing it in the 5th grade too! As well as the movie with James Stewart. Today - I heard it played on a PBS broadcast - Celtic Woman. It was a beautiful rendition played on a violin. But I couldn't remember the words... thanks to everyone who helped restore my memory and more!


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:47 PM

Since a verified version from that time has not been found, only speculative answers can be given.

See post by Lighter, 29 Jan 05.

Don't give up hope; anecdotal reports suggest that it may be out there, as yet undiscovered.


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Jo Jo Tater
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:25 PM

Peut-être certains viendront le long qui

I've read all of the posts--all of them. I'm hoping someone will drop in to reveal the answer, if there is one.


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 04:07 PM

Quien sabe!


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Jo Jo Tater
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 03:25 PM

What would be the version if it was sung during the time of the Civil War?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Shenandoah
From: JedMarum
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 11:49 PM

you could 'em all together and record an entire CD: one song!


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Subject: Lyr Add:Shenandoah
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 03:47 PM

So many versions. Let's add one more
Nigel


SHENANDOAH
Sea Shanty

Shenandoah, I love your daughter,
A-way, you rolling river!
Shenandoah I long to hear you;
A-way we're bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri

The ship sails free, a gale is blowing
A-way, you rolling river!
The braces taut, the sheets a-flowing
A-way we're bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri

Shenandoah, I'll ne'er forget you
A-way, you rolling river!
Till I die, I'll love you ever,
A-way we're bound away
'Cross the wide Missouri


These words from Community Sing-Song Book Two: Published by Keith Prowse & Co Ltd (these arrangements copyright 1927)
NP


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Subject: RE: Origins: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 03:37 PM

Refresh


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Subject: RE: Origins of Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 03:36 PM

? The very interesting Talequah verses you posted in thread 4257, Origins: Shenandoah, are accessible. (I have refreshed that thread, which was running a day or so ago.
I think the problem may be that you posted as Guest "Jed on a borrowed PC" (02 Aug 06, 08:44AM), so the post does not show on your list of posts.

Or am I missing something? I checked the closed posts, and found nothing applicable.

The pre-1910 anecdotal references to non-chantey versions are numerous enough that I think proof should be found before too long.


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Subject: RE: Origins of Shenandoah
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:30 PM

Here're the lyrics I posted to the old thread:

It starts out with a typically first 2 verses, then:

At Talequah on the reservation
Far away you rolling river
I joined General Pike and the Cherokee Nation
Away I'm bound away
Across the wide Missouri

The Yankees came to Elkhorn Tavern
Far away you rolling river
The Southern hopes and nations shattered
Away I'm bound away
Across the wide Missouri

Oh Shenandoah I love your daughter
Far away you rolling river
The Cimmeron and Red Fork waters
Away I'm bound away
Across the wide Missouri


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Subject: Origins of Shenandoah
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:27 PM

There used to be another thread on this subject, but you can n longer post to it - so I thought I'd continue the disucssion here.

I had been asked the source of the lyrics I'd posted,lyrics that seemed to tie the Indian Nation history to that of the Civil War, and it seems to me the battle of Pea Ridge, as we now call it. Here's the answer I posted to the broken thread:

There's a little shop in Atoka OK, called the Confederate Museum. Here's the link. I drive by it on my way to Kansas City and points North. I stopped in one day and visited. Browsed the museum and the shop. Bought a book and ran into an old boy and his dog at the rest stop. He'd stopped for lunch apparently but was playing his guitar and singing as I was heading out - so I stopped, listened and chatted for a while. He played the song with those words, as near as I remember. I asked him about the story and he said he'd learned it that way. Said he didn;t know the history. I wrote it down as soon as I got back into my truck.
    I'm confused, Jed. Everything seems OK, so I combined the two threads.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 11:50 PM

That reminded me-
aYears ago my grandfather watched a scene in a western where four men were walking down a board sidewalk. He commented that it wasn't realistic because you couldn't hear their heels striking the wood. In his day, there were only leather heels and anyone walking on a board sidewalk made a racket if they walked normally.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Someinterest - Connecticut
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 12:25 AM

Tonight I Googled, disgruntled with a PBS rendition of Shenandoah that didn't sync with childhood versions from IL and MO. Hit this thread - what a banquet! And how much we've lost. I remember my great-grandmother (part Seminole) and she remembered her's. Three leaps and we are back to 1830's. Three generations with oral "common-history" opportunities to pass forward - not taken - lost facts & lost insights on their evolution in everyday thought and social adaptation.

Nice to think that data banks connected to the internet might retain knowledge captured in the millions of threads like this in cultures around the world - though unlike buried hordes of ancient clay tablets, these modern caches will more likely be erased to free up data space.

But in optimism, a memory of IL/MO Grandpa, who said movies & TV didn't depict towns like Hannibal and Qincey as they were in the 1800's - because they didn't show where the dirt streets sank half way to the knees in muck and horse manure all seasons but drought; where skirt hems sweept down those streets encrusted with said manure, spit, and chewing tobacco; and where every porch and boardwalk was lined with civil war amputees begging, singing, and strumming their war tunes for coins - one he hummed when he repeated the stories was "Shannendah".


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 11:29 PM

Echo of Rex- Source?


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 11:11 PM

Perchance the Cimarron?

Brig. Gen. Albert Pike, Confederate States America, for a short time before The War Between the States, was an Indian Commissioner for the Confederacy. In the late 1850's, his law practice represented the Cherokees. He led a brigade of Cherokee Indians at the Battle of Pea Ridge (Elkhorn Tavern), 1862.

It seems he had no contact with the Cherokees after the War.
He edited the "Memphis Appeal," and then moved to Washington, D. C., where he practiced law. He was a Scottish Rite Mason and wrote extensively on Masonic ritual.

He also was a poet, and wrote "Ode to a Mocking Bird" among many others. He was supposed to be fluent in seventeen languages but this cannot be verified.


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: Rex
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 02:55 PM

Hey Jed, this is most interesting. Would you tell us where you found it?

Rex


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Jed on a borrowed PC
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 08:44 AM

I found some new and interesting verses in my Civil War research. Maybe OK or even AR will like this version.

It starts out with a typically first 2 verses, then:

At Talequah on the reservation
Far away you rolling river
I joined General Pike and the Cherokee Nation
Away I'm bound away
Across the wide Missouri

The Yankees came to Elkhorn Tavern
Far away you rolling river
The Southern hopes and nations shattered
Away I'm bound away
Across the wide Missouri

Oh Shenandoah I love your daughter
Far away you rolling river
The Cimmeron and Red Fork waters
Away I'm bound away
Across the wide Missouri


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 08:05 PM

Does anyone have the lyrics to Jo Stafford's rendition of Shenandoah?


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 02:44 PM

State Song Search Hits Sour Note
House Panel Says 'Shenandoah' Is Out of Tune With the Times


By Chris L. Jenkins
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, March 2, 2006; B03

RICHMOND, March 1 -- The lone, angelic voice did a slow dance through the sixth-floor board room at the state Capitol, lulling the assembled group of Virginia delegates into silence.

"Oh Shenandoah, Virginia's beauty," sang Erin Merceruio, who, along with her college choir, was commissioned to help convince the House members that the lullaby she was singing, "Shenandoah," should be adopted, at least temporarily, as the Old Dominion's song.

"Away, you rolling river, from coast to mountains through the valleys," joined in the women in Shenandoah University's choir. Then the men chimed in: "Away, we're bound away, 'cross our fair Virginia."

"Wow!" House Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford) said, as the 13-member group, dubbed the Shenandoah Singers, finished their rendition of the song that many experts believe has been sung for more than 150 years.

But as sweet as the notes may have sounded, the effort to persuade delegates to bless the song landed with a thud in the House Rules Committee. The panel decided that the four-stanza tune, while certainly a pretty ditty, wasn't quite the right fit for the state and tabled Senate Bill 682, sponsored by Sen. Charles J. Colgan (D-Prince William).

"Although the words were beautiful . . . I'm not sure this is the best song to represent the entire commonwealth," said Del. R. Steven Landes (R-Augusta) whose district includes part of the Shenandoah Valley. "Fredericksburg is different from the Shenandoah Valley. Salem is different, Bedford is different. . . . I'm just not sure this song is as inclusive as it should be."

And there was that pesky point about the song's story line: The narrative is about a white trader who falls in love with the daughter of a Native American chief named Shenandoah, the same man for whom the Virginia valley and river were named, experts believe. Is that really about the state of Virginia?

And would-be historians on the committee also pointed out that the song evokes a period in Virginia that maybe shouldn't be celebrated through rhyme and verse.

"It's about a time in Virginia history when everyone was migrating out of the state because the conditions had gotten to the point economically that things were better in the West," said House Majority Leader H. Morgan Griffith (R-Salem). "I don't think it's appropriate to have a state song that's about folks leaving the state of Virginia."

None of this pleased Colgan, who this year took over the long, tedious process of finding a state song. Lawmakers retired the last state song, "Carry Me Back to Old Virginia," in 1997 because its lyrics were considered racist, leaving the state as one of only a few without one.

To assuage House members' concerns, Colgan had Shenandoah University Dean Charlotte Collins rewrite the original lyrics to make them more Virginia-friendly. For instance, the amended version mentioned the state several times and did not include the original's ode to the Missouri River.

The original goes:

"Oh Shenandoah, I love your daughter . . . Away I'm bound away, 'cross the wide Missouri."

Colgan remixed the song so that the line would have read: " Oh Shenandoah, I'm bound to leave you . . . 'Cross our fair Virginia ."

"The state song is for children," Colgan said. "This song can be sung in school by children . . . at graduations, inaugurations. It's a great song." In a follow-up interview, he remained hopeful: "I think one day it will be our state song." And even though delegates were not swayed by the siren call of the Shenandoah Singers, who traveled from Winchester to serenade them, the group, like Colgan, were convinced that one day the effort may succeed.

"Whether they took it or not it was worth the effort . . . it's a beautiful song," said Merceruio, 20. "It's really special."


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 09:35 AM

Terry published two "parts" (volumes) of _The Shanty Book_ during the 1920s. He was a prominent musician who had learned shanties in childhood from seafaring relatives and later from other sailor singers, at sea IIRC.

Despite the inevitable bowdlerization and collated texts, Terry's _Shanty Book_ remains an important source, with plentiful background notes.


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: masato sakurai
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 09:27 PM

Listen to Jo Stafford's singing of this song here.


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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,heididoiron@msn.com
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 08:38 PM

Hi I am looking for the Shenandoah version that sings about the wanting to see you and rolling river....and smiling valleys.....across the wide missouri.....can anyone help me??? my daughter knows part of it but we are having a very hard time finding the rest of it....please help!!!!!!!!!


from Canada


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