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Guns and hunting

DougR 19 Dec 01 - 04:07 PM
CarolC 19 Dec 01 - 04:02 PM
Lonesome EJ 19 Dec 01 - 12:04 PM
kendall 19 Dec 01 - 11:26 AM
Big Mick 19 Dec 01 - 09:34 AM
kendall 19 Dec 01 - 09:01 AM
kendall 18 Dec 01 - 09:47 PM
little john cameron 18 Dec 01 - 09:30 PM
harpgirl 18 Dec 01 - 08:05 PM
kendall 18 Dec 01 - 08:03 PM
X 18 Dec 01 - 07:32 PM
Steve in Idaho 18 Dec 01 - 06:17 PM
Fortunato 18 Dec 01 - 01:10 PM
Maxine 18 Dec 01 - 01:01 PM
catspaw49 18 Dec 01 - 12:49 PM
X 18 Dec 01 - 12:33 PM
kendall 18 Dec 01 - 12:25 PM
SINSULL 18 Dec 01 - 12:23 PM
Fortunato 18 Dec 01 - 09:28 AM
Jeri 18 Dec 01 - 09:24 AM
Big Mick 18 Dec 01 - 09:09 AM
kendall 18 Dec 01 - 09:02 AM
gnu 18 Dec 01 - 06:41 AM
kendall 18 Dec 01 - 05:39 AM
marty D 18 Dec 01 - 12:50 AM
Chip2447 17 Dec 01 - 11:38 PM
Big Mick 17 Dec 01 - 11:09 PM
GUEST 17 Dec 01 - 10:53 PM
Big Mick 17 Dec 01 - 10:46 PM
GUEST 17 Dec 01 - 10:22 PM
GUEST,GUEST (a different one) 17 Dec 01 - 10:16 PM
DougR 17 Dec 01 - 10:14 PM
GUEST 17 Dec 01 - 10:08 PM
kendall 17 Dec 01 - 09:30 PM
kendall 17 Dec 01 - 09:21 PM
kendall 17 Dec 01 - 09:13 PM
harpgirl 17 Dec 01 - 08:25 PM
GUEST,Desdemona 17 Dec 01 - 07:42 PM
kendall 17 Dec 01 - 07:17 PM
gnu 17 Dec 01 - 05:10 PM
Chip2447 17 Dec 01 - 04:54 PM
GUEST,Desdemona 17 Dec 01 - 04:36 PM
gnu 17 Dec 01 - 04:34 PM
DougR 17 Dec 01 - 04:26 PM
gnu 17 Dec 01 - 04:11 PM
DougR 17 Dec 01 - 04:08 PM
Fortunato 17 Dec 01 - 04:05 PM
Bert 17 Dec 01 - 04:02 PM
little john cameron 17 Dec 01 - 03:58 PM
katlaughing 17 Dec 01 - 03:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: DougR
Date: 19 Dec 01 - 04:07 PM

Training is good.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Dec 01 - 04:02 PM

I posted this to the other thread, and I think it's worth putting here, too.

I've had a pheasant hunter fire a gun from behind me and just to the left of my left shoulder, aiming for a bird that was in the road just ahead of me.

And I've had people hunting groundhogs for sport, shooting right through my yard when I had a small child and a dog in the vicinity.

And another time some hunters actually did shoot my dog.

So I sure as hell think people who use guns for sport need more legally required training in how to use them responsibly.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Dec 01 - 12:04 PM

Like it or not, Hunters perform a vital service. They cull populations of herd animals like deer and elk, that would otherwise overbrowse and overbreed in the absence of large predators, leading to disease, starvation, and environmental damage. Hunters also support, through hunting licenses and fees, preservation of wildlife habitat in national wilderness areas, at least in the US.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 19 Dec 01 - 11:26 AM

You are right Mick. Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, but the pig enjoys it. I'm done


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Dec 01 - 09:34 AM

Kendall, no need to respond any further to this lowlife. In fact, they are feeding off it. Most folks reading this know who it is and think they are slugs. Forget it.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 19 Dec 01 - 09:01 AM

Guest calls me a drunk. You are full of shit, and if you had the guts to face me I would say it in person. I know you are not a friend of mine, if you were, you would know that you could tell me face to face that you dont want to be around me if I'm carrying. You would not have to hide behind "Guest" No one in their right mind is afraid of me. Your gutless paranoia will keep you out of McDonalds, but, I go where I please.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 09:47 PM

Apology accepted, and I glad to honor your request.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: little john cameron
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 09:30 PM

Weel,that certainly sparked a bit o' controversy.Good arguements on all sides.All well thought out and appreciated.I agree,life is dangerous regardless how you live it.Many accidents here on the island this weekend due to bad weather.Then the pub up the road,not my local,burned down and Minnie died.Ah'm a real bundle o' fun these days.Merry Christmas. ljc


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: harpgirl
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 08:05 PM

I posted nothing on this thread anonymously, for the record. Let someone who has been raped at gunpoint by a law professor speak on this subject again. The rest of you should be quiet and listen and think!!!

Here are my questions for the individuals who carry firearms:P

Do you have alcohol and firearms in your home?

Do you imbibe alcohol and have firearms in your home?

Do you know anyone who has committed suicide with a firearm?

Are you on probation and do you own a firearm?

Are you on parole and do you own a firearm?

Have you crossed a state line with your firearm?

Are you on disability for a mental condition such as bi-polar disorder and do you own a firearm?

Have you concealed a firearm without proper permitting?

Have you ever knowingly broken a firearm law with the rationalization that you won't do anything stupid?

Kendall I am publically apologizing for my outburst. But I don't apologize for being afraid of guns. I have reason to be afraid of them. I have vowed to stay away from people who knowingly own and carry firearms. I don't let people in my office with firearms and believe me they bring them in!!!

If you own and carry firearms, do me a favor and don't come around me. I am terrified of them and the people who carry them....harpgirl


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 08:03 PM

Thanks folks for all the support (including all those pm's) Anyone who thinks I'm a dangerous drunk would be a source of great amusement among my friends and relatives. Considering that this person hardly knows me, her concern may be valid, but, attacking me in a public forum is inexcusable.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: X
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 07:32 PM

kendall, I'll jam with you any day, and feel safer knowing your armed.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 06:17 PM

If you are offended by someone carrying a weapon then you have a bigger problem. And yes I think some hypocrisy does go on - what about when you go to your favorite MacDonalds? Somebody does some of all of our killing for us. Better wake up though - just because someone pulls the trigger does not make them the sole responsible party - who buys the bullets? We talked about this a while back in an assasin's thread of some type.

To legally possess and carry a firearm is a thing each of us must make a choice on. I would hope that the choice would not end up damning someone.

A public forum is not my choice of where to publicise the fact though.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Fortunato
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 01:10 PM

Hello, Mary. Thanks for your post. Merry, Happy, HO HO Ho!

Hey 'SPAW, Merry (expletive) Christmas and Happy (expletive) New year!

Your point about eroding safety procedures is well taken. If you've ever tried to tutor your kids in Algebra or those "how fast must a train run to reach Atlanta with 600 passengers" problems, you know we lose accuracy and content over time. Gun Safety Training as taught by a state agency ought to be mandatory to receive a hunting licence, IMHOP. Gun ownership is a right guaranteed by the Constitution, but hunting licences are at the pleasure of the state and can be regulated for the public safety. Parents do not have access to videos depicting accidents. As you know videos showing traffic fatalities do have an effect.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Maxine
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 01:01 PM

We were in Florida in October. My son wanted a pair of aggressive roller skates (don't ask!) and so we decided to look in a shop called 'Outdoor World' stupidly thinking it may stock skates and perhaps golf accessories etc. Now, I know us Brits are not big on this outdoor life, but I have to say I was appalled. Deer and buffalo heads bedecked every wall. Guns, various traps, combat gear so brave men could hide themselves in the woods and elude attack by these vicious beasts adourned every shelf. I hurried my 2 kids out of that shop, and tried very hard to answer the 'whys?' and 'what fors?' they were asking. But the truth is, I had no answers for them. I have no idea what would want to make a grown man (or woman) shoot a deer etc to put it's head on a wall and hope everybody who see's this trophy imagines they must be some brave hero, not too scared to enter a forest, armed with a gun, and shoot something. Now, I have read all the previous posts, and know that this is not the case for all of you. A lot of you seem quite decent and aware that animals lives are also worth a great deal. I am aware, that as a meat eater, leather wearer etc, I may be hypocrital. But as a sport, surely hunting of any sort (don't get me started on fox hunting, badger baiting) is completely barbaric? Katlaughing, every time I read that poem it upsets me...perhaps I'm just emotional with all these christmas carols around!

Byeee


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 12:49 PM

Making hunter safety courses mandatory would certainly help, no two ways about it. As I posted above, my nephew David really enjoyed and learned from them...but such is the passion of youth. My fear is that so many other things, they would become diluted over time for "experienced" hunters who would feel it was unneeded in "their case." I'm really not sure what a solution there is, but I will say that the drinking hunter is a bigger problem. Sadly there are too few wildlife personnel to enforce any law that might be passed so we'd have yet another unenforceable law.

I guess we were talking about this several years ago too, here at the 'Cat. What bothered me then is still going on today and that's the beer company banners wishing the hunters good luck......yeah.......Stop and buy a six pack before you head out with a gun in your hands. It's the same thing as drinking and driving I know, but at least the bigger breweries have put a few bucks into the "Don't Drink and Drive" campaigns while at the same time offering their best to hunters without mention of safety. Well, what should I expect anyway............

Last year in NASCAR there was a car sponsored by Remington, with collateral sponsorship from Ice House Beer........racing in a series sponsored by Winston/RJ Reynolds. Yeah, let's do some unhealthy shit, drink a few, and drive fast on our way to the woods to shoot something. Geeziz..........

LJ, once again, I'm sorry and perhaps none of this applies to this poor family. It's odd though, that our first discussion of this very subject introduced Paw, Cletus, and Buford in a fictional scenario, now all too real.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: X
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 12:33 PM

Poor taste Harpgirl, you never talk about someone carrying concealed. Kendall may, someday have to save your ass with that little .38.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 12:25 PM

I repeat. It is a tool and I am totally qualified in its use. I hear that paranoia is treatable.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 12:23 PM

Chance,
Gun safety classes do work. My father saw to it that all four of my brothers took them and passed them before allowing them to hunt. I had no desire to try it so I did not.
Drinking and hunting is a problem. Unfortunately, there is always one (or more) who see Opening Day as an excuse to get away from the wife and kids. Even better if it happens over Thanksgiving weekend. They come equipped with enough hard liquor to stock a small bar.
Now to a more interesting subject. Am I to understand that Big Mick will only share a cot with old coots who do not carry guns?


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Fortunato
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 09:28 AM

My questions above were ignored. Evidently Shooting Safety Classes are not an exciting topic. Neither is a public health campaign against drunken hunting.

As long as we remain militant and factionalized and wholier than thou on both sides of gun safety, innocents may continue to die.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 09:24 AM

Based on what some are willing to do around here with words alone, I'm glad they don't believe in more lethal weapons. Those prone to violent reactions prompted by unpredictable rage should NOT carry weapons.

Having had personal experience with spraying paint directly into my eyes, (Don't ask - it would make some of Cletus & Paw's escapades look intelligent.) I doubt it would help much with a home intruder. It might work (as would any distracting but non-disabling type of counterattack) if you were in a situation to run away after spraying. For one thing, the person can't see, so they're not going to be able to get out of your house. For another, you have to get close enough to them to spray - bad if they can grab you. For a third, the paint doesn't completely blind a person - they can see where you are in between blinks.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 09:09 AM

What is so funny about all this, Ken, is that with the appropriate software and knowledge of how to use it, the IP addresses of the ANON GUESTS are easy to get. The posters think that they are anonymous, but the fact is that they are not. Let us not continue to feed this poor, pitiable creature. I am amazed that this person, of all, would feel the need to do this shite. But it just goes to show that the early impressions are the most accurate. You can't hide what you really are very long. Eventually it comes out. Let's move on and leave this one ranting in the dark.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 09:02 AM

That area is in a grove of trees whose roots are all above ground. It was dark, and I was NOT drunk. Thou shalt not bear false witness...


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: gnu
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 06:41 AM

harpgirl... tsk tsk. What an awful post. Completely unacceptable in a public forum. You should be woefully ashamed of your poor judgement. I wouldn't want to share a jar with you.

BTW, "stumbling over tree roots in the dark" ? Don't sound drunk to me... if it even happened the way you're letting on.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 05:39 AM

Guest, I know who you are, and you are in no danger from me. Look, a gun is a tool. Nothing more. It is not a problem until some idiot mis uses it. Chainsaws are also dangerous in the wrong hands, wanna ban them too? Furthermore, you are a liar. One who will do or say anything to have the last word, even to violate a confidence. I'm glad I'm not one of your patients, you have a very big mouth. So, go ahead and add my name to the list of Mudcatters whom you have been bad mouthing. I'll be in good company. I have carried a piece for most of the past 42 years, and I guarantee that no one is MORE qualified to do so. The State of Maine Warden service, and the U.S. Treasury dept. will tell you so.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: marty D
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 12:50 AM

So sorry to hear about the incident Little John. I guess because we're not personally involved we start thinking about the larger issues at hand, and of course the adrenalin starts flowing with the opinions. Don't drag yourselves through the mud Mick and Kendall by responding to flamers. You are two of the many here who've made the forum worth reading for me. (you COULD give an opinion in my 'folklorist' thread instead...just kidding)

marty


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Chip2447
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 11:38 PM

I'm going to toss in another two cents worth. In 1926 the state of Missouri banned deer hunting because the animal was nearly gone from the area, wildlife estimates at the time stated less than 400 deer remained in the state.
Click here

In fact, many cities in the state allow archery hunting inside the city limits to control the urban herd.
With few remaining natural predators remaining, wildlife officials now estimate the population of wild deer in missouri to be nearly one million animals.
If you chose not to hunt that would be your prerogative. If you chose not to eat meat, then that is your choice also. I'll respect your choices. Try to respect mine.
I sympathize with those who have had friends and family injured or killed in hunting accidents, but many of them can be avoided; hunt in areas where you know who is likely to be in the area, wear Hunter saftey orange, NEVER FIRE AT NOISE, ALWAYS VISIBLY IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET, know what lies in your line of fire. Drinking and getting drunk have no business in a hunting party, save it for camp or the lodge.
Okay, I'm stepping down off of my soapbox for the time being.
Chip2447


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 11:09 PM

GUEST, I don't respond to this type of stuff often, but in this case I will. Your pitiful attempts to lure me into a flame war demonstrate that you are incapable of intelligent debate. Further, probably due to a very deep resentment towards one or both of your parents, you manifest this by leaving intellectual discussion and doing despicable things like accusing folks like me of manslaughter. This is probably because you lack any cogent arguments to respond with, and folks like me intimidate you. That is OK. There is help for people like you. Drop me a PM with your hometown and I will use my contacts with various agencies to get you some counseling. In time you will come to realize that most folks only pity you, but aren't bothered by you. You will see that the self esteem you lack can be obtained, and that the attention you crave can be so much better than the type you get with this stuff.

As to the rest of you, let us continue our discussion, but don't feed this poor soul. It only encourages him/her.

Sincerely,

Mick


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 10:53 PM

...sorry Kim, I also meant to add that even if Mick wasnt the one to shoot it, he'd at least happily buy the ammunition for the person who did...


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 10:46 PM

Yep, some folks always descend to this. I have also sang, eaten, and made music with Kendall. I would be happy to do so again, anytime, and any place. BUT........and this is a major BUT.........I will not sleep with you, you old coot..........LOL.

I am sorry that kat has chosen to leave the debate. All we have here is a discussion of this issue, and I think that with a couple of exceptions, it is actually going quite civilly. With the exception of unnamed assholes, that is. Kat chose to use the term crap, that is unfortunate. But I really wanted to ask her a question based on her response. She equates Native American hunting with spirituality. In fact she calls it a spiritual right. I think she has it wrong. Hunting by Native Americans, for the most part in days gone by, was a survival practice. But they viewed then, as many of them do now, the whole world as a living being. Hence great thanks was shown to the Creator for the bounty provided. And great reverence was shown to the living creature for the sacrifice made to provide sustenance. Many tales of the hunt were told around the lodge fires, bragging type stories that extolled the skill and bravery of the hunter AND the hunted. This is really not so different from the hunters that I hunt with. We enjoy the hunt, we talk of the skill required to be successful against wily prey, and we waste nothing of the kill. I don't have a single fish mount, or deer mount in my home. I have never felt the need. I do have hides that I have tanned. I have always wanted to get into buckskinning, so I save them. Unfortunately I don't have the time for another hobby so I will likely give the hides to my nephew who is into this sort of thing. But I start to digress.

With regard to the above paragraph, my point is that the aims of the hunters that I hunt with and the Native American hunters is not different. There is a difference in the spirituality involved, but not the reverence. I have learned much of my hunting ethic from the practices of several different tribes of Native Americans. Hunting, in and of itself, is not wrong. But hunting for no purpose but to kill, and with no respect for the creature whose life you take is simply slaughter. The near destruction of the buffalo, and the extinction of the passenger pigeon, are examples of what happens when values and ethics disappear from hunting. And finally, Native American hunting is not purer, or more OK, than any other. You either buy that hunting can be OK or you don't.

With regard to education, I strongly support more, not less. I believe that if a state is going to pass laws that allow weapons to be carried in public places, then training equivalent to what a law enforcement officer must go through to carry should be mandatory.

And as truly sorry as I am for ljc's friends, I still must make this observation. Anyone who fires at a noise in the field or in the home or in public without having exactly identified what it is that s/he is going to discharge a lethal projectile at is guilty of manslaughter. I would never, ever, fire any of my weapons without having positively id'ed the target. Never, never, ever fire at a sound.

I am very sorry for the loss that this family is going through.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 10:22 PM

Kim C, putting something orange on something is a sure-fire way of getting Big Mick to shoot it....


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: GUEST,GUEST (a different one)
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 10:16 PM

A SNUB? Thats only a serious danger to someone whos got it in their back pocket!


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: DougR
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 10:14 PM

DOCTOR? = DR =DougR?

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Kendall is put out at me! **SOB**!


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 10:08 PM

Kendall,

I'm posting this anonymously because now I'm afraid of you. We've eaten together, drank together and made music together. I didn't know you carrying a gun. Now that I do, I will never be in your company again.

I've seen you drunk and I don't want to be around a fucking drunks with a gun.

FUCK YOU!


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 09:30 PM

Actually, it is an email. I'm more than a little put out with you.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 09:21 PM

You have a strong PM from me DOCTOR.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 09:13 PM

I always wait until I am fit to drive after drinking. My brothers didn't "get me drunk" that is such a silly saying. Yes, I carry. I have carried for many years, starting when I became a law man. No one has ever been the worse for it. Those are facts, but, I'm sure they wont stand up in the face of fear. The reptilian brain is stronger in some of us. BTW, I dont carry in places where it is not legal.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: harpgirl
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 08:25 PM

Hmmm, okay, let's see Kendall. When you and I went to the Thomas Point Bluegrass Festival last year I caught you stuffing your snub nose thirty eight into your jeans pocket. I protested but didn't insist you not take it.

Your brothers got you drunk on rum and coke and you stumbled over the tree roots in the dark. You never fell thank goodness! Then you wanted to drive home in the van. I suggested we sleep in the van. Now is this your idea of gun safety????? Just wondering....harpgirl


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 07:42 PM

And that IS a very important lesson, but as any parent can attest, it would be irresponsible for us to assume that children have internalised these lessons when not having done so can be a matter of life & death. It's an important part of our job to ENSURE our children's safety until they HAVE reached the age of reason. Not doing so increases the risk of them never having the chance to do so.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: kendall
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 07:17 PM

One of the very first things I learned as a child was to keep my clam clutchers off things that did not belong to me.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: gnu
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 05:10 PM

Great... the phone company is sending out an installer to check the line AGAIN because the line test syays everything is okay, AGAIN. I'm going to park on the street and when the installer parks in my driveway, I'm gonna block him in and not let him leave until it's fixed.

AHEM... One potatoe is sliced very thin so that it thickens the stew... flour and corn starch were in short supply when my forefathers arrived in the new world. The partridge, preferably two or three Birch (ruffed gruse) and one Spruce, for added flavour (spruce partridge), are boiled first for an hour or so depending on time of year taken because the feed influences tenderness (as well as taste... birds taken while eating alder and poplar leaves will taste much differently than those eating maple seeds and bugs). Of course, one never eats stew the same day as it is cooked. It must "set" to reach it's ultimate flavour.

As far as putting it in the garage, it's all to do with what Mick was talking about. Putting the stew in the fridge is not traditional. Setting it in an outbuilding to keep it cool is paying homage to tradition. You, of course, don't want it to freeze freeze, but almost freezing brings out the taste of the carrots and turnip. Gee, I must go have a plate.

BTW, I see that local craft shows are selling partridge feathers for $5 for a small baggy. That's around a hundred bucks a bird. I could make a bloody fortune but I wouldn't be able to sleep at night because I don't need the money as much as I need to return what I do not use to Mother Nature.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Chip2447
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:54 PM

There have always been unlocked guns in my parents house, through four children, and uncountable friends, cousins, visitors. There has NEVER been an incident involving firearms in my parents household. We were taught firearm safety, and we knew better than to touch the weapons without adult supervision. That was the Law.
When we hunt we consume what we harvest. HARVEST. There are more deer in the state of Missouri now than there ever have been before. Without seasonal hunts we would soon be overrunn by "Bambi." How many of us would be demanding that something be done to keep destructive animals out of gardens, and front yards and off the highways, where if I'm not mistaken, The American Whitetail deer kills or injures more people in the USA due to collisions with vehicles yearly than does any other animal, excluding man. How many of us would be demanding that something bee done to help the poor starving animals because we were hit with a harsh winter? How many farmers would be demanding that something bee done to keep animals from destroying their livlihood Eating meat is an instinct, not doing so is a choice.
Nuff said... Happy Holidays Chip2447


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:36 PM

So, first-glance appearances notwithstanding, it actually looks like we're all ESSENTIALLY in agreement (this is always such a hot-button topic!), that Little John's community has suffered a horrible & unnecessary tragedy, that people who are licensed and trained to hunt with a gun or ANY weapon should be mature, well-trained and responsible, that in some areas an overpopulation of wildlife leads to unhappiness for people and animals, and that everyone has to eat.

LJ, my sympathies to you and your neighbours, who must be experiencing something unimaginably painful and horrific right now. Sending a good thought.

D.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: gnu
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:34 PM

DougR... that should suit my snowbird, golf nut uncle who winters there from BC.

Desdemona... can you hang onto that crap until it peters out rather than letting it come north to the Maritimes ? Thanks.

Still sunny but cooling here. I knew the new moon would bring a change. It's all downhill now, but the snow makes money change hands, so I'll just put a few more spuds in the stew and watch it snow.

I make partridge stew the traditional Kent County Irish way. Potatoes, turnip, carrots, onions and a pinch of summer savory. One potatoe is sliced.... shite... will get back to you... have to shut down for line test...


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: DougR
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:26 PM

gnu: how do you make partridge stew, and what is the purpose of putting it in the garage to freeze? (Little thread creep here)

DougR


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: gnu
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:11 PM

katlaughing... that spray can of paint is an excellent idea !! I'm going to write a "letter to the editor" on that in case there are others as dense as I for not thinking about it earlier. Not only would it be a good defense, but it would also mark the intruder. Chain lube comes to mind as well, because it's got a greater trajectory (sp ?). Still might be a problem with kids, though... but certainly less lethal.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: DougR
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:08 PM

No, Gnu, Bambi probably wouldn't have lived very long because the herds of deer would not be harvested annually, and soon there would be so many deer there would not be enough forage for the game to eat, and they would starve to death. That's more humane?

Hunters should be SURE of their target BEFORE they pull the trigger.

I use to be a hunter, but no more. I'm sure I would have the same reaction that my friend Kendall had were I to have shot a deer. I am glad that there are hunters, though, so that the size of herds can be managed.

Arghhhhhhh! That doesn't make me an environmentalist does it???? :>)

DougR

DougR


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Fortunato
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:05 PM

IMHOP: Here in Maryland and Virginia, USA, when we license people to drive we attempt to educate them through driver training.

Would anyone here object to Shooting Safety Training being mandatory for first time hunting licenses? Retraining every 4(?) years?

I would also recommend "Don't Drink and Hunt" campaigns.

I don't own any guns and I eat fish only. But this is not moral superiority or ennobling, only my preference. A Zen teacher of mine has said: "It is not what you eat, but eating mindfully that is important." In other words, do not kill or eat carelessly, but mindfully. Who among you does not eat?

Have a safe Holiday season. Regards, Fortunato.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: Bert
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:02 PM

Thanks for some real figures Jeri. I'm suspicious when people quote figures without giving a source.

Those 1.4 per 100,000 who died of malnutrition could maybe have used a few bambi-burgers, and probably wouldn't have cared too much whether they were farm raised or hunted.

kat, you're right about geese though. I gave up keeping geese because I didn't like killing them, they are so smart and they seemed to know what was coming.
One cannot live in modern society without exploiting animals, (if you don't wear leather then you are probably buying groceries from someone who does); I respect you for trying to live up to your beliefs though.

I was raised that, as a meat eater, I should be able to take responsiblity for killing the animals that I ate and was taught to butcher chickens at an early age. There was a war on and Dad used to raise chickens and rabbits to supplement the rations.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: little john cameron
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 03:58 PM

Thanks Kat and everybody.That's it from me too. Having a bad week. ooxx john.


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Subject: RE: Guns and hunting
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 03:43 PM

My rattle is made of clay. My drum synthetic skinhead. The feathers I have came from moltings of live birds. I do respect the spiritual rights of my Native American friends to hunt and use all of the parts, but I still DON'T like it and they know it.

ljc, I am sorry to have been sucked into the never-ending gun debate. I hate hunting and I agree with harpgirl (most homeowner's would do better defending themselves with a well-aimed can of spray paint), but that does not diminish the fact of your friend's tragedy and for that I am truly sorry. May you and their other friends and family help them through this terrible loss. Anymore from me will be by PM only.

kat


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