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Help: UK Catter at Risk

GUEST,friend 31 Jul 01 - 04:37 AM
paddymac 31 Jul 01 - 04:44 AM
GeorgeH 31 Jul 01 - 04:49 AM
okthen 31 Jul 01 - 04:59 AM
Mark Cohen 31 Jul 01 - 05:10 AM
GUEST,friend 31 Jul 01 - 06:02 AM
McGrath of Harlow 31 Jul 01 - 06:34 AM
English Jon 31 Jul 01 - 07:42 AM
DancingMom 31 Jul 01 - 09:25 AM
GUEST,Friend 31 Jul 01 - 09:28 AM
GeorgeH 31 Jul 01 - 09:41 AM
Linda Kelly 31 Jul 01 - 11:41 AM
smallpiper 31 Jul 01 - 11:47 AM
Peg 31 Jul 01 - 11:51 AM
SharonA 31 Jul 01 - 12:02 PM
katlaughing 31 Jul 01 - 12:13 PM
Noreen 31 Jul 01 - 12:36 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 31 Jul 01 - 12:38 PM
Bernard 31 Jul 01 - 01:21 PM
Bernard 31 Jul 01 - 01:27 PM
GeorgeH 31 Jul 01 - 01:37 PM
Bernard 31 Jul 01 - 01:51 PM
Paul Mitchell 31 Jul 01 - 02:39 PM
Mr Red 31 Jul 01 - 04:10 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 31 Jul 01 - 04:26 PM
McGrath of Harlow 31 Jul 01 - 06:59 PM
GUEST,Friend 01 Aug 01 - 11:21 AM
Kim C 01 Aug 01 - 11:31 AM
SharonA 01 Aug 01 - 11:46 AM
smallpiper 01 Aug 01 - 11:48 AM
Noreen 01 Aug 01 - 11:53 AM
Skipjack K8 01 Aug 01 - 12:07 PM
SharonA 01 Aug 01 - 12:39 PM
katlaughing 01 Aug 01 - 12:47 PM
GUEST,Don Meixner 01 Aug 01 - 01:23 PM
Naemanson 01 Aug 01 - 01:52 PM
GeorgeH 01 Aug 01 - 02:37 PM
Mr Red 01 Aug 01 - 03:05 PM
mg 01 Aug 01 - 03:29 PM
selby 02 Aug 01 - 02:30 PM
Paul Mitchell 02 Aug 01 - 04:47 PM
Mr Red 02 Aug 01 - 04:52 PM
Penny S. 03 Aug 01 - 06:44 AM
GUEST,friend 03 Aug 01 - 08:49 AM
SharonA 03 Aug 01 - 09:45 AM
Kim C 03 Aug 01 - 10:05 AM
katlaughing 03 Aug 01 - 11:32 AM
SharonA 03 Aug 01 - 11:39 AM
georgeward 04 Aug 01 - 03:44 AM
Naemanson 04 Aug 01 - 07:32 AM
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Subject: UK Catter at Risk
From: GUEST,friend
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 04:37 AM

a uk member of the mudcat has confided in me that suicide is the only way out. i am not sure what to do i have tried to get professional help but its been of no use. i am not a member of mudcat and if i leave my name you will know who the person is. should i do that, no i cant break a confidence. the person has not got access to the internet for at least two weeks that is why i ask now for some help. MW


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: paddymac
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 04:44 AM

I presume you're joking. Not being able to visit mudcat for two weeks could put lots of folks into a blue funk, but it's not anything to get suicidal over.

However, just in case you're not, find 'em some real-world professional help.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: GeorgeH
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 04:49 AM

If this is serious . . . well, in the UK the Samaritans are the obvious first port of call.

G.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: okthen
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 04:59 AM

Get proffessional help, if your friend is truly serious, you can't help on your own. Ask advice from a doctor or Samaritans.

cheers

bill


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 05:10 AM

This doesn't sound like a joke to me at all. Paddymac is correct, though, you do need to help the person find professional treatment. I don't know about the UK, but most communities in the US have a crisis hotline phone number which is staffed 24 hours a day by volunteers with training in mental health crisis intervention. You should be able to find such a number in your local directory. Call them and tell them the situation. Or else find the number for a psychiatric hospital and call their emergency number, or call the emergency room at a large general hospital. Any one of these calls should put you in touch with a professional who can suggest the next steps to take.

In the meantime, if you are in contact with this person, STAY in contact. It is a myth that mentioning suicide to a depressed person will cause them to commit suicide...it's ok to talk about it. Or just talk about other things, people you know, upcoming events, whatever...just be present.

For many if not most people, suicide is not a rational decision, but one that is provoked by severe depression, which in turn is frequently caused by electrical or chemical abnormalities in brain function. These abnormalities are TREATABLE, so it is critically important that the person be evaluated by a competent mental health professional as soon as possible.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: GUEST,friend
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:02 AM

thanks for your replies. I will see her at lunch and try to get her to go to the samaratins. i do not think i am able to talk to her about suicide though. MW


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:34 AM

Click on here The Samaritans


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: English Jon
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 07:42 AM

Stay with her. Try and do normal things with her. Get professional help ASAP.

Good luck.

EJ


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: DancingMom
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 09:25 AM

Mark Cohen is right. You won't cause someone to commit suicide by talking about it. It's the same as being afraid to talk with a bereaved person about their loved one for fear of upsettin them; you're not "reminding them" of the situation, because it's all they're thinking about, anyway.

A person who has actually developed a plan for how they will commit suicide is in real, immediate danger. It's okay to ask them. And call for help. I'll be thinking of you both. Sharon


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: GUEST,Friend
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 09:28 AM

had a good lunch she didn't mention suicide once. she gave me her melodeon, said she wanted to concentrate on singing. Its a lovely honer, but I feel a bit guilty taking it. but am glad to say she seemed quite chirpy. thanks for taking the trouble to reply, it looks like a was a little panicy MW


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: GeorgeH
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 09:41 AM

One doesn't wish to be alarmist, but . .

There is another possible interpretation to her giving you her melodeon, you know. Clearly we're not as well placed as you to judge whether she's over her "suicide is the only way out" phase, but unles you are very certain there was never anything in the suggestion then I believe you should think very carefully about:

Asking her straight out whether she was serious when she talked about suicide,

Do your damn best to persuade her to seek professional support (offer to go with her

Extract the most solem promise you can from her that the melodeon gift isn't a "parting gesture".

As I said, I'm sorry if this seems alarmist . .

George


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 11:41 AM

This sounds scary - depression is a deceptive thing and you may assume it has gone when it has not. Please get her to see someone or to telephone a counsellor. If you feel I can help at all, then please say.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: smallpiper
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 11:47 AM

If you would like to get in touch with me either email or PM me I am a professional Counsellor and would be happy to help - you can check out my credentials at www.counsellingcharity.co.uk John


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Peg
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 11:51 AM

I don't know if he is online these days but the Popular Halfwit (in Wiltshire) also does counselling work with teens I believe...

I wish you the best of luck and do continue to stay in touch with her. Give HER a gift of some sort; even just freshly picked wildflowers..

Peg


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: SharonA
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 12:02 PM

I agree with George. Giving away one's possessions is typical pre-suicide behavior. A change in behavior from verbally expressing hopelessness to being "chirpy" is also typical: it can mean that she's made up her mind to do the deed, has a plan worked out to do it, and is now at ease knowing that her inner turmoil is about to end.

I'm willing to be alarmist here. DO NOT DELAY. Get her some professional help NOW, just in case. If she lives alone, don't leave her alone. If she lives in an environment that is driving her toward suicide, do anything you can to get her out of it. TODAY.

SharonA


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 12:13 PM

And, do please call some other Mudcatters, those who've offered, or those who may know her and talk to them; maybe they can be of help, too. If she is one of our younger members, I would definitely consider talking to a family member, unless they are a major reason why she is feeling suicidal.

Please keep in touch.

kat


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Noreen
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 12:36 PM

MW, don't feel you have to talk about suicide or anything in particular wih her- just be there and by doing so, show that you care what happens to her.

Encourage her to make plans -as you have been doing- meeting up for lunch and so on. A friend who is in a similar situation has told me that's the only thing that's actually prevented her killing herself- "such-and-such is happening on Wednesday so I can't do it 'til after that...".

Has your friend seen a doctor? There are many drugs that will help her over the worst, and her GP can also refer her for counselling, for her long-term well-being.

If there's anything else I can do, please say. You could become a member here (it's free) and send personal messages, to keep details off the main forum, if that would help.

The world needs more friends like you.

Noreen


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 12:38 PM

I hope your friend is ok, if you think there is a real risk of her committing suicide, you could consider having her sectioned under the mental heath act, (a police officer above the rank of inspecter can do this). Also the Samaritans have a cheap rate number 0345 ??????, MIND have a similar thing, your local church may also be helpful, in Hull the church run a confidential listening sevice called Crossline, I really hope your friend is ok.john


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 01:21 PM

Talking helps - but listening is the important thing.

I know - I'm in and out of suicidal moods on a frighteningly regular basis, and the few friends who have stuck by me are the reason why I haven't done it - yet...

Samaritans et al are all very well, but they aren't 'real' people, if you know what I mean. There's no way I would ring them - I don't see how a total stranger can help me. That's all part of depression. I imagine your friend may see it the same way.

My life saver was St. John's Wort - the medical profession let me down with their chemicals that just didn't suit me. The side effects were intolerable, and caused me to drive away the best friend I'd ever had.

Medication helps - if it's the right stuff - but it doesn't make the root problem go away. It just makes it more tolerable.

If your friend wants to contact me by phone, send me the number by email...

Whatever you do, don't try to 'make them see reason' or 'snap out of it', because depression takes away that ability. Such conversations have quite the opposite effect from what was intended.

As I said - I know. I'm there myself...


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 01:27 PM

Sorry - I've just re-read that, and it came out wrong...

St. John's Wort hasn't got any side effects - it was Paroxetine that was the nasty one for me.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: GeorgeH
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 01:37 PM

Bernard . .

You're entitled to your view of the Samaritans, but I think it's quite wrong, generally (though clearly it's true for you). As you say, listening is what they are trained to do . . and there's plenty of evidence that they do provide an invaluable service. Also - as I understand it - they are pretty "hot" on referrals to a "face to face" support service.

Also, there are many folks who find it easier to talk to a total stranger, and even find the impersonal nature of a phone connection helps.

(All of which is totally irrelevent to the central concerns of this thread!)

G.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 01:51 PM

I beg to differ.

It's not my view of the Samaritans, but the way clinically depressed people see the 'interference' of strangers.

I have nothing but praise for the work they do, but people with my condition cannot face the idea.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, but I do know what I'm talking about.

Advice 'from the inside looking out' is just as valid, if not more so, than advice 'from the outside looking in'.

It all depends on whether the person in question is clinically depressed, or suicidal for some other reason...


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Paul Mitchell
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 02:39 PM

I know I've done this sort of thing on another thread.. but hey.. it's part of what I do for a living.. so here goes.

Listen to the people who are advising you to seek some help from the Samaritans. They are a good place to start. You are supporting your friend, who's supporting you? Mudcat is cool, but we can already see that it is a forum in which stuff will be discussed, rather than in which you can be "listened" too. So get yourself some support as well.

I've also seen suicidal behaviour turn into chirpy behaviour. It isn't always a good sign (sometimes it's fine). Get some proffesional help. If people are offering it for free, grab it and use it. I'm sure you are aware that the Samaritans aren't Counsellors (note the capital "C"). However, they can be just the thing that starts a recovery off.

Good luck. Again, P.M. me if you think it might be useful.

Thinking of you.

Paul


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 04:10 PM

Pretty Eilidh
There's a song lyric that might help. It worked once
Only the name has been changed to hide the identity.
Give it a go, it was written to work at a distance.
Keep us posted.
There are probably other avenues to help with this - keep thinking for both of you.
If that doesn't work I have 500 banjo jokes - mostly unused!


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 04:26 PM

Coming out of depression into that "chirpy" state can be a particularly dangerous time for manic depressives, as can any change in the treatment regime, Sylivia Paath's being one of the classic cases. Not a goood time to be given too much space.

But there's an important factor in all this, that no-one's given any value to, so far: namely that there are some perfectly intelligent people, clinically ill or not, for whom suicide becomes the necessary course. Where the individual has been committed to this view over the longer term I think it's a view that has to be respected.Any hint that it's a passing mood, or driven by ephemeral external factors, I think intervention is appropriate. A reasonable test might be: would the person at risk be pleased or sorry, six weeks, six years hence, to have been prevented from committing suicide?

The one-time poet and literary critic Al Alvarez has written thoughtfully and extensively on suicide - in particular his autobiographical book, The Savage God. In his case he decided to stick around, gave up the academic life and took up a high-risk career of poker and rock-climbing. The Savage God is probably out of print, in which case settle for one of his more recent books, Where Didt It All Go Right?


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:59 PM

The Samaritans site I gave the line to has email and other contact details, and a range of links that might be useful. I would think that they could give helpful advice to somebody in the situation of GUEST friend.

And here is the link once again


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: GUEST,Friend
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 11:21 AM

Lots of good and useful advice from you all. But things have taken a serious turn, she has handed in her notice at work and is talking about everything being sorted out in a couple of weeks. she seems to be handing over lots of her things. I have contacted her father and told him of my concerns and he is coming down today.I don't want her bloody melodeon MW


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Kim C
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 11:31 AM

Don't give up!


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 11:46 AM

Hoo boy.

Bravo to you, Friend, for taking action; hope her father can be of some help too. Is it possible for you to band together with others to whom she's giving her things away, to present a united front to her saying "We'd rather keep you than your stuff"?

Please know that we're all pulling for you, and her, and hoping she finds what she needs in order to be at peace with the idea of continuing to live.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: smallpiper
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 11:48 AM

It would seem that you are doing what you can for your friend but it sounds to me like you are the one that needs help - don't take that wrong - if you friend has decided take that course of action then she will and there is in reality not a lot anyone can do she may be prevented for a while but if she is determined then she will do it. But what about you are you going to be left with terrible feelings of guilt, did I do enough and if only I'd... no its time to start looking after you (as selfish as that might sound) email me john@oboyle.karoo.co.uk john


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 11:53 AM

Oh, not good... Keep making plans with her, for spending time when she finishes work. Very difficult to know what else to do.

Fionn makes an important, but unpalatable point.

A thought I was given that helped me put a lot in perspective over the last couple of years: We are each responsible for our own destiny. Though you can help her as a friend, you cannot control her actions nor are you responsible for them... I would be very happy to talk more about this with you.

Much love to you both,

Noreen


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 12:07 PM

MW Friend, this affects us all. If the worst does come to pass, we will all be raking over things we may have posted to your friend, wishing we perhaps hadn't, etc. I absolutely respect your desire for anonymity, but please, can I ask that you join Mudcat, to use the Personal Message system, and then post Personal Messages to any UK Mudcats who may be close to your, and by association, our friend. Short of that e-mail me at

greg@johnwyattltd.co.uk

and I will PM any Mudcat members who you think canb help.

It might help, just might. If the worst happens, the identity will out, and if the best happens, you will be exposed as the true friend you are.

Skipjack


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 12:39 PM

MW, Skipjack's right. If you become a member, you will be inundated with supportive Personal Messages!

Has the "UK Catter at Risk" found her membership at Mudcat to be a positive experience overall, or has she stepped away from it because something or someone here has upset her? If she misses the discussions here and has found them supportive, it may help to find a way for her to access the internet (via library, a friend's house, etc.) to guide her back into a positive routine. If, on the other hand, she doesn't want to log on here for some reason, it might be better not to try to persuade her (flamers and such can be upsetting if one takes them seriously).

BTW, if someone here really has gotten way out of line and said something to her in the Forum or in a Personal Message that's in any way threatening or similarly demeaning, that incident should be reported privately to Max (the Mudcat head guy) or the other volunteers listed in the FAQ (the FAQ gives instructions on how to contact them in a case like that).

smallpiper has a good point, too: Don't forget to take care of yourself and your emotional well-being through all of this, whether you decide to join Mudcat or continue to post as a Guest. No matter what happens, you are indeed a true friend; thanks for giving the rest of us hope in the knowledge that such people still exist in the world!!!


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 12:47 PM

Also if there is a Mudcatter whom she has mentioned in particular, in a positive manner, you could let them know, by Personal Message if you join, or in this thread, if you feel okay with it. That way they could also try to contact her and maybe help.

Good for you for calling her father. I hope he can persuade her to see a professional.

I've been through many scares with my brother and though it was a hard lesson to learn, I finally had to let go and just know that I'd done all I could and if he decided or decides to one day commit suicide, it will be his choice, not that of anyone else.

May all the best come your way and to your Mudcat friend,

kat


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 01:23 PM

Guest,

If no one has yet mentioned it and if things go baddly for you and your friend now is the time to find someone who YOU can talk with. This kind of confidence is a resposibility that is impossible for a friend to ignore and almost as impossible for a friend to bear.

A similar situation came to me twenty five years ago and now and then I still relive the whole experience and it affects me for days.

One thing you must know is what you can't do. You can't stop a person who is determined. And should your friend be so determined you mustn't think any of this is because you didn't act quick enough or direct her to the right resource.

I hope all works out well for you,

Don Meixner


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Naemanson
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 01:52 PM

MW, I have a friend who suffers from severe depression. Some time ago she gave me her bowed psaltery and one of her dulcimers. I refused to consider them mine. I have taken them as a long term loan. When she conqers the depression with the right combination of chemicals and life style then I will offer them back to her.

Everything said here is on the money. I too suffer from depression and have recently hit the right combination of drugs and have emerged like a butterfly from a cocoon. If your friend can make this same transition she will find there is a lot of life worth living for. I did it with counseling and drugs. It has been a long fight and is not over yet.

Also, remember that you are doing something worthwhile. You are trying and that is more than a little thing. You have done what you can. If she doesn't make it through this crisis you cannot shoulder any of the blame.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: GeorgeH
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 02:37 PM

I agree with so much of what has been said . .

In particular . .

Don't give up on your friend . .

Seek help, advice, guidance - for her and yourself . .

Try to keep some emotional distance from things (far easier for me to say than for you to do . . )

Don't damage yourself in the process of trying to help this friend . .

Accept that, if it comes to the worst, it's not your fault . .

Whatever happens, don't hide or deny your own emotions; the more emotionally draining this situation becomes the more emotional support you will need.

Good luck

G.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 03:05 PM

You Know - humour is a very usefull device in these circumstances - just a little and carefully thought out but just an attempt, on its own, to make someone laugh is another way of showing you care.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: mg
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 03:29 PM

If you can, take her physically to see her doctor, your doctor, any doctor. If things seem eminent, take her to the emergency room if she will go. This is a life-threatening emergency.

mg


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: selby
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 02:30 PM

Hopefully our catter friend has continued to be a catter and has been reading the advice and words of comfort that are available to both her and her friend. I am no expert but reading this thread there are enough people who care enough to take time out to help you both, that alone should be help to get any one out of a dark hole and believe me when I say I have felt desperate a couple of times the best bit of advice I was given was look for & find the positive's of which this thread is one and act on that. Keith


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Paul Mitchell
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 04:47 PM

When that catter returns here hopefully they will read this thread. I hope you get the idea that there are a lot of people out here who give a damn about you and about your friend. I hope you can find the strength to stay with us. There are so many songs and tunes to play and enjoy, and so many more to write!

The best of luck to you.

ragingpagan@hotmail.com (By the way, C.D. for sale, only a fiver. Bargin' guvnor.. I can tell ya')

Paul


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 04:52 PM

Positives?
I am helping someone who now laughs when I say "consider the benefits", it is our catchphrase.
I couldn't be more serious and she knows it but it is a slow process and who knows what real effect I am having.
In this case she is not what we would call suicidal (as far as we can tell) but is definitely that low.
The problem is that people being positive and suggesting things is the last thing they want. AND The first thing they need
and there we have the nub - the gap between need and want is too great - result unhappiness.

I did see a report in New Scientist that the effects of losing weight quickly has many of the same symptoms as depression. In retrospect it rung bells with my youth and more recently with someone close.
the comfort eating that preceeded it in the latter case was a clue to unhappiness we all missed.
Does this apply?


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Penny S.
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 06:44 AM

Is there some situation which has triggered this? Can that be helped? I'm in a similar case at the moment, and there is a situation which needs altering before the pressure to suicide can be lifted. Has your friend mentioned what it is that makes her see this as the only way out?

Penny


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: GUEST,friend
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 08:49 AM

There are lots of reasons that her life is so unhappy. A bad relationship with spouse, children who walk all over her. she really needs to turn around and walk away. But she tells me that she is fed up of moaning to all and sundry, fed up of everything. She just wants a little privacy and respect and the only way she can achieve this is to be dead, and then no one can hurt her or abuse her kind nature.I am at aloss as to what to advise her to do, I have suggested she leave the situation but as small child is involved she wont. she has told me that she is going to make the suicide look like an accident so that her family and friends will not have any stigma. her Dad arrived today so hopefully he will pull her round MW


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: SharonA
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 09:45 AM

We all hope so too, Friend. I'm guessing that it has done no good to point out to her that, by killing herself, she would be leaving her small child in a worse situation (motherless) than if she were an absentee parent, sharing custody or visiting.

As to the "stigma": you and, now, her father know that she is contemplating suicide. If she carries it out, that's a secret with which you will both be burdened. Who knows whether the father would be willing to keep that secret? Either way (secret kept or revealed), it damages other people besides the one who commits the suicide.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 10:05 AM

Privacy? Sure. Respect? No. The people who love her will not respect her for leaving them that way.

I think we all probably know how it is not to feel valuable at some time. Unhappy times eventually go away. Sometimes it takes a long time - a long, miserable time. I know that from experience.

She is not the only person in the world who has ever felt that way.

Do you have a crisis intervention center in your area, or a mobile crisis unit? They may be able to help.

Don't give up on her.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 11:32 AM

Sorry, I thought she was newly married and there were no children involved. Did I miss something? Not trying to be picky, just a bit confused. Really glad to hear her father is going to be there, today.

kat


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: SharonA
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 11:39 AM

No, that's the woman in the "Suspect Physical Abuse" thread. Both are gravely serious situations; both women are in danger.


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: georgeward
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 03:44 AM

Well, Friend, your last post above is heartbreaking.That's the sort of distorted thinking that brings about the suicides that should't happen.

Like others above, I think you were right to involve her father...yet I also hope he's not part of the problem. It is genetics and chemistry right enough, but also social context and a lifetime of learning that feed the sort of thought patterns you've laid out for us. That I know firsthand. It may not be so in this case, but "people, places and things," can all be triggers, just as AA says. So...

I'd say, first, don't let your contact with her slip because someone else is now on the scene. You are the one she turned to (A cry for help that you've answered as well as one can. May be enough, may not. You've just got to put it out there in hope and DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF if she suicides anyway. Others have addressed this. Take us to heart. We've paid plenty to learn this).

Second, undoing that sort of thinking means a lot of capable, professional counselling. Keep that as something to come back to when and as you have the chance. As Bernard has said much better, THE world is not as she sees it, but HER world is. It can be a labor of years for a severely depressed person to learn that and to learn to use the knowledge.

Third (or maybe first)...support for yourself. If I were in your shoes, I'd be on the first bus back to whichever of the good therapists I've worked with could give me the earliest appointment. You may want to turn to someone else. Either way, it is simply one of the necessary tools to getting the job done safely and well.

And, oh yeah, by taking care of yourself emotionally, you are also modelling something she needs to see.

She's got a damn good friend! - George ::-.--O


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Subject: RE: Help: UK Catter at Risk
From: Naemanson
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 07:32 AM

Friend, you have to stay involved. You have to be supportive and you have to protect yourself. All this has been said above and all stands firm.

Sometimes what is needed from a friend, a true friend, is to be smacked up side of the head. Not so long ago I was so deeply depressed I was talking of suicide to a dear friend. I too planned to make it look like an accident. She very gently, but firmly, told me that if I took that route she would tell the authorities I had planned it that way and then my family would be out the insurance money I wanted them to have plus they would have the stigma of knowing I had left them on purpose. It undercuts the determination a little.

I'm not saying to do this. Each situation is unique. But it worked for me. I got myself to a counselor and started trying various antidepressants. I am doing much better now that I have my little pink happy pills.


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