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BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night

DigiTrad:
JOE HILL
JOE HILL'S LAST WILL
SWEET BY AND BY
THE PREACHER AND THE SLAVE


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Bert 25 Jul 01 - 03:01 PM
katlaughing 25 Jul 01 - 03:06 PM
Lonesome EJ 25 Jul 01 - 03:09 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jul 01 - 03:14 PM
Bert 25 Jul 01 - 03:24 PM
Bert 25 Jul 01 - 03:27 PM
katlaughing 25 Jul 01 - 03:32 PM
Lonesome EJ 25 Jul 01 - 04:06 PM
Walking Eagle 25 Jul 01 - 05:44 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jul 01 - 07:29 PM
M.Ted 25 Jul 01 - 09:38 PM
Mark Cohen 26 Jul 01 - 06:08 AM
GUEST,fretless (at work) 26 Jul 01 - 09:18 AM
wysiwyg 26 Jul 01 - 11:16 AM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Jul 01 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 26 Jul 01 - 01:10 PM
GUEST,M.Ted, on another server 26 Jul 01 - 05:18 PM
Charley Noble 26 Jul 01 - 05:43 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 26 Jul 01 - 07:22 PM
Bert 26 Jul 01 - 09:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Jul 01 - 10:07 PM
GUEST,Pete Peterson 27 Jul 01 - 05:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Jul 01 - 06:05 PM
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Subject: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: Bert
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:01 PM

Or maybe it was Ira Einhorn.

Am I the only one who thinks it strange about the body in the trunk.
He is supposed to be reasonably intelligent but even our Cletus would have hidden the body, dammit. And we are expected to believe that he kept it in his apartment all that time while everyone was looking for her.

It just doesn't ring true to me, it smells highly of a set up.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:06 PM

And she was mummified? Interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:09 PM

Who!? What?! Are u talking about Chandra Levy, Bert?


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:14 PM

Some blue clickies here might be a good idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: Bert
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:24 PM

Sorry I'll try to find a news article. We've been swamped with the story here but perhaps that's 'cos we live in Philly.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: Bert
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:27 PM

See if This works!


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:32 PM

Here is a more up-to-date story with background.:-)

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 04:06 PM

Thanks Bert. I watched a tv movie on this a year or two ago. The movie painted him as a real son of a bitch overdue for justice.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 05:44 PM

Yeh, I've wondered about that too. It seems as if police were truly - - looking - - for her, Einhorne's house would have been the first place they searched. Seems mighty funny! Question is, can there be a fair re-trial on this issue? Wonder if there WILL be another trial? Lots of interesting questions here.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 07:29 PM

If they back out of the promise to have a retrial, I imagine that'll be the last time the USA ever gets any fugitives deported back from France, or indeed anywhere in the European Union.

As for whether a fair trial is possible that's another matter. I wouldn't have thought that a conviction in abstentia would carry much weight with juries that have grown up with movies like The Fugitive.

Of course it won't help that the US Media will be running stories about it from now until and during the trial. Of course that applies to any high profile case, I imagine.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 09:38 PM

Bert,

I have always wondered how a counterculture figure managed to get an defense attorney like Arlen "Single-Bullet" Specter, who had just finished serving as the prosecuting attorney(and, if they had found the body somewhat earlier, would have actually prosecuted him), and why they would have released him knowing full well he was going to skip out--I am not sure, but I believe the bail was quite a bit less than the amount mentioned in the article--

I used to work a couple blocks from the notorious apartment, and was pointing it out to some co-workers one day--one of them said, "Are you sure? I used to live in that building!!" It's right around the corner from the first MOVE house, the one that Frank Rizzo burned, then bulldozed--


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 06:08 AM

I think he might have gone to my high school (Central), some years before me. He seems to be one of those people who thinks he's smarter than the rest of the world...

And Bert, I don't think there was any kind of hoax or setup. It doesn't surprise me that the police would not have been looking very hard for her. They most likely would have put anything connected with Einhorn at the bottom of their to-do list. And he was probably trying to prove how dumb the cops were. No conspiracy, in my estimation...just very sad all around.
Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: GUEST,fretless (at work)
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 09:18 AM

Minor thread redirection, re: message from M.Ted: the mayor of Philadelphia at the time of the final MOVE confrontation in May '85, i.e. the one where the Phila police fire bombed MOVE headquarters and thereby burned out an entire West Phila neighborhood, took place during the mayoral tenure of Wilson Goode, not Frank Rizzo.

Rizzo certainly had it in for MOVE, and he and the group had many confrontations, but the final MOVE catastrophe wasn't on his watch.

At the time of the burning, many folks considered it ironic that an African American mayor, Goode, should have presided over this disaster. Many others found it even more ironic and naive that folks would assume that the racial identity of a mayor/politician should have protected anyone from abuses in the use of state power.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 11:16 AM

And all over the news it is being mis-pronounced "in ab-STENCH-ah."

It's ab-SENT-cha. Absentia. Not abstentia.

As in ABSENT, not ABSTAIN.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 12:54 PM

Now the BBC has a pronunciation section to stop them doing thing like that.

But I'd think it makes much more sense to say "in his absence", which takes no longer, trips off the tongue more easily, and is much clearer to people who don't have much Latin. (It takes more letters to write, which is my excuse for using the Latin term.)


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 01:10 PM

Excuse my ignorance but what has Einhorn got to do with Joe Hill, I know Joe Hill was set up on a murder charge, as Einhorn may yet prove to be, but there the resemblance seems to end. Explaination please.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: GUEST,M.Ted, on another server
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 05:18 PM

The house that I was referring to is the one from the April, 1978 debacle, where cops stormed the MOVE house, then at 608 N. 33rd Street, in Powellton Village(which was for many years the center of the Philly radical counterculture)--a police officer and two MOVE members were killed (I believe that there was a strong feeling in some quarters that all three were killed by police fire). Enraged by the policeman's death, Rizzo ordered that the house be burned, then bulldozed the site--This event got national TV coverage, and helped seal Frank's reputation--

One would have thought that, what with the Rizzo and the police department's history of of extreme actions against John Africa and MOVE(and Rizzo's often quoted bombasts of longhairs and leftists), the Philly police department and prosecutors offices would use any excuse to crack down on Einhorn, who was the acknowledged leader of the Philly counterculture. As has been mentioned above, the didn't raise a finger when Maddox disappeared, and, when they finally had to investigate neighbors complaints that included cadaverous smells and fluids dripping from the ceiling in the apartment below, they not only provided him with the best attorney available, they practically opened the door and looked the other way while he left the country.

There has been a lot in the papers and on the TV tabloid programs about the financial support and the other assistance that Einhorn has obviously received over the years, the implication always being that he was being helped by wealthy but politically naive indivuduals who still bought in to his radical chic act--Though it hasn't been covered much nationally, some people have said that they believed Einhorn had regularly supplied the police, FBI, and other authorities with information on his counterculture compatriots--quite possibly including his neighbor, John Africa--


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 05:43 PM

This thread doesn't have anything to do with Joe Hill, just another sorry case of justice deferred. Our police chief in Portland, ME, was one of the investigating officers who discovered the trunk and mummified corpse of Einhorn's former lover. Be nice if Einhorn confessed but I'm sure he's convinced himself that he was innocent.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 07:22 PM

Charlie, I'm glad that I'm not alone in failing to find a connection


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: Bert
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 09:45 PM

Well I said MAYBE. I was just thinking that something didn't seem quite right. Of course we will never know all the facts, but here's a guy that's smart enough to elude authorities for 20 years and dumb enough to keep the body hanging around. It doesn't ring true to me.

Raggy. "I know Joe Hill was set up on a murder charge, as Einhorn may yet prove to be, but there the resemblance seems to end" - I wasn't suggesting any further resemblance.

Just thought it might be interesting to discuss this BEFORE they pass sentence this time.

But I always get suspicious when the authorities would like to be rid of someone and then something happens to that someone. Like Di for instance, we were saying, months before she died, that they would get her. My money was on a plane crash.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 10:07 PM

It's not a bad idea to actually have a trial with the accused person in attendance before even starting to talk about them as guilty. It's called a presumption of innocence.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 05:25 PM

I think I understand. The criminal, knowing he is guilty, ought to be able to prevent a trial by skipping bail , since trials in absentia ought, in your opinion, to be illegal. Sorry, don't agree.


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Subject: RE: BS: I Dreamed I saw Joe Hill Last Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 06:05 PM

In those circumstances when you get them back, you have a proper trial, which is what they have said they are going to do in this case. And since there is going to be a trial, and the previous attempt at a trial is set aside, the presumption of innocence kicks in again.

Just because someone goes on the run, rather than face trial, it doesn't mean they are guilty. There have been so many cases of people being found guilty, and then proved beyond any question to be totally innocent. In the light of that, surely, running from a pending trial cannot in itself give any indication that someone is guilty, just that they think there is a strong likelihood that at this particular time they will be found guilty.

Please note, I haven't given any in education as to whether I think the bloke is guilty, because I don't know enough about it.


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Mudcat time: 24 June 12:56 PM EDT

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