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BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?

GeorgeH 09 Jul 01 - 01:54 PM
Little Hawk 09 Jul 01 - 01:58 PM
SueH 09 Jul 01 - 02:15 PM
Amergin 09 Jul 01 - 02:30 PM
Les B 09 Jul 01 - 02:35 PM
Bev and Jerry 09 Jul 01 - 02:41 PM
Celtic Soul 09 Jul 01 - 06:28 PM
Clinton Hammond 09 Jul 01 - 06:33 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 09 Jul 01 - 06:41 PM
Patrish(inactive) 10 Jul 01 - 04:39 AM
KitKat 10 Jul 01 - 04:55 AM
Deni 10 Jul 01 - 04:59 AM
GeorgeH 10 Jul 01 - 06:42 AM
bbc 10 Jul 01 - 10:16 AM
jmdornan 10 Jul 01 - 10:56 AM
GUEST,Les B 10 Jul 01 - 11:23 AM
The Cat's Whiskers 10 Jul 01 - 11:39 AM
M.Ted 10 Jul 01 - 12:52 PM
GeorgeH 10 Jul 01 - 02:03 PM
GUEST,Russ 10 Jul 01 - 05:12 PM
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Subject: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 01:54 PM

Over in another thread (don't ask!) a few days ago, someone suggested that it's generally unsafe and unwise to mix business and friendship . . .

Certainly I can see the sense in what they said . . however, it strikes me that there is widespread mixing of business and friendship in the UK folk "scene"; indeed, that it's almost characteristic of it - between promoters, artists, agents, helpers (not to mention punters; they do have a business relationship, at least with the promotors). And it seems to me that mostly we wouldn't want it any way. Of course, sometimes something goes really sour . . but sadly "that's life".

Then I started wondering, Perhaps it's a UK thing?. Certainly at time the USians seem a little more hard-headed, business-like in their approach. On the other hand, they seem to have given us the House Concert, which seems to me to rely on a mix of business and friendship.

So . . what to you guys think?

G.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 01:58 PM

It's definitely risky, but it can work on some occasions. You've got to judge each situation on its own merits, and work hard to handle it properly. I find there's a lot more good will and good attitude in the Folk scene than in many other lines of business. Generally, the larger the amounts of money involved, the nastier things are likely to get. - LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: SueH
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 02:15 PM

I agree with you, George. There is a very tightly-knit community here, & not just among amateur performers either; there's a massive amount of genuine friendship & providing everyone plays fair it doesn't usually founder....


SueH


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: Amergin
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 02:30 PM

Well, from what I have heard here on the cat the Patons are a good example....


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: Les B
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 02:35 PM

So what is a "punter" in the UK ? Here in the US it's a special kicker on a football team !


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 02:41 PM

We have done several house concerts and festivals booked through friends. We have also done several school gigs arranged through friends. We have been turned down several times by friends. We even sold our house to friends, So far, none of this has affected our friendships. But.... there's always a risk so think carefully before doing business with friends. Is the risk of losing their friendship worth the reward of getting the gig?

Bev and Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 06:28 PM

Jumping in yet again.

I have had both very rewarding long term experiences and some not so wonderful experiences as well. It really depends on the people involved.

My only suggestion to you is this; Do not ignore your instincts. If your gut says watch out, then watch out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 06:33 PM

All I can say is this... I'm fortunate enough to have some good business relationships with some good friends... and we're all on the same page as far as keeping the 2 seperate goes...

;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 06:41 PM

Some of my best friends are folk singers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 04:39 AM

The only time I ever mixed business with a folk musician was a disaster. But the silver lining was that so many other folkies rescued me with their kind thoughts and deeds
Patrish


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: KitKat
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 04:55 AM

Dear Les B

A punter in the UK is just a slang word for customer. Not sure of the origin of the word - I'm sure someone will enlighten us!

pat


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: Deni
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 04:59 AM

I don't think the folk scene would have ever got off the ground, or would stay off it, without people with similar interests pitching in. I have started several 'business' ventures and then found fellow participants become friends over time and we support each other. You can't ditch them just because you like them!!!

D


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 06:42 AM

Derri . .

Thanks greatly for your final sentence! I feel much better for it!

G.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: bbc
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:16 AM

Generally, I'd recommend against it. In my past, it ruptured the closest friendship my ex-husband had. It took me years to mend the friendship & may have only succeeded because I was no longer married to that man. In more recent times, a close friend's attempt at mixing business w/ friendship put a strain on a relationship. I think that friendship is more important than business & that's a good enough reason to keep them separate.

bbc


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: jmdornan
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:56 AM

I think it has to be judged on a case by case situation. I have had both good and bad experiences with friends. I found out one thing though in the process, the pros are ALWAYS pros, and though are the people you WANT to work with. There is also a great list of Don'ts in my bag of tricks now :) So I won't make the same maistake twice, and I also won't help the ones who burned me in the past. Someone once said to me " never step on people on your way up, you are going to meet them agian on your way down" Good way to look at the buisness all the way around. SO there's my 2 cents for what it's worth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 11:23 AM

KitKat - Thanks. My vague recollection of the British meaning had something to do with betting on horses, but it seemed to be something different in the first post above.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: The Cat's Whiskers
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 11:39 AM

I think the folk scene is a bit different from "business", because although people are there to make a living, their primary goal is to make good music - and most of us enjoy doing that. I've always felt that money is generally the reason why business partners who are pals fall out, but with low-key folk music the problem is largely absent.

As Little Hawk said: "Generally, the larger the amounts of money involved, the nastier things are likely to get."

The other thing is that generally folk singers respect each other and what everyone else is trying to do - and if you help one person out a few times, it's likely that in the future they will support you in return. No folk singer wants folk music to dissappear, so if anyone can prevent this by helping a fellow artist out, they will. And this involves a great deal of friendship. I can't think of any other "business" where this would occur.

TCW


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 12:52 PM

I think that doing good business is really a matter of expectations-when you are clear all around on what you expect from one another, then when there are problems, you can work them out,friends or not--If expectations aren't clear,there will be trouble, friends or not--

We once owed a favor to musician Friend "A", who asked us to play for an end of the season party for a dance company at the home of Performing Arts Acquaintance "B". A year later, Acquaintance "B" called and booked us to play the same party(a Saturday nite, in Wedding Season,we had an afternoon gig in another state and, we really had to scramble to tear down, travel, and set-up, and we turned down last minute offer, to boot) at the end of the gig, there was no money. "But, you did this last year, and so I assumed you'd do it this year, after all, we're friends!"

We never got any money, and, though we ended up playing for free, the company members and sponsors hated us for asking to be paid. The lessons were: A) in the "Peforming Arts", everyone is a "friend", B) no one gets paid unless it is budgeted in the grant application, C) If you book our band, sign a contract!


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 02:03 PM

Yup, if I book a friend I want to sign a contract!

Lots of good sense and interest here; thanks one and all.

G.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can (Folk) business and frienship mix?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 05:12 PM

When you are dealing with a relatively small community it can be almost impossible to keep business and friendship separate.

Any hard-headedness you might have noticed in the US might simply be due to the fact that the folk community is a larger community.


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