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BS: The Ashes

Jon Freeman 21 Aug 01 - 10:01 AM
A Wandering Minstrel 21 Aug 01 - 09:44 AM
Terry K 21 Aug 01 - 05:08 AM
GUEST,John Gray / Australia 20 Aug 01 - 11:34 PM
Linda Kelly 20 Aug 01 - 04:45 PM
Cobble 20 Aug 01 - 01:19 PM
Linda Kelly 13 Jul 01 - 02:18 PM
Gareth 13 Jul 01 - 01:31 PM
Grab 13 Jul 01 - 12:17 PM
A Wandering Minstrel 13 Jul 01 - 11:40 AM
Les from Hull 12 Jul 01 - 01:24 PM
Grab 12 Jul 01 - 01:21 PM
Penny S. 11 Jul 01 - 05:54 PM
Brian Hoskin 11 Jul 01 - 11:54 AM
Les from Hull 11 Jul 01 - 11:45 AM
Jim Cheydi 11 Jul 01 - 11:33 AM
Linda Kelly 11 Jul 01 - 11:28 AM
Jim Cheydi 11 Jul 01 - 07:52 AM
English Jon 11 Jul 01 - 07:43 AM
Linda Kelly 11 Jul 01 - 05:11 AM
Les from Hull 10 Jul 01 - 07:12 PM
Gareth 10 Jul 01 - 05:05 PM
Linda Kelly 10 Jul 01 - 04:51 PM
Linda Kelly 10 Jul 01 - 04:43 PM
Brian Hoskin 10 Jul 01 - 11:38 AM
Les from Hull 10 Jul 01 - 11:28 AM
GUEST,John Gray / Australia 10 Jul 01 - 11:25 AM
Jon Freeman 10 Jul 01 - 11:01 AM
GUEST,John Gray / Australia 10 Jul 01 - 10:52 AM
A Wandering Minstrel 09 Jul 01 - 09:14 AM
GMT 09 Jul 01 - 07:19 AM
Jim Cheydi 09 Jul 01 - 07:07 AM
Jon Freeman 09 Jul 01 - 06:54 AM
Brian Hoskin 09 Jul 01 - 05:41 AM
Linda Kelly 09 Jul 01 - 05:01 AM
Lonesome EJ 09 Jul 01 - 01:25 AM
Jon Freeman 08 Jul 01 - 06:59 PM
Cobble 08 Jul 01 - 06:45 PM
Linda Kelly 08 Jul 01 - 02:37 PM
Amos 08 Jul 01 - 01:58 PM
GUEST,colwyn dane 08 Jul 01 - 01:14 PM
Sooz 08 Jul 01 - 11:57 AM
Jon Freeman 08 Jul 01 - 11:07 AM
Celtic Soul 08 Jul 01 - 11:01 AM
Lonesome EJ 08 Jul 01 - 12:44 AM
Jon Freeman 07 Jul 01 - 09:40 PM
Lonesome EJ 07 Jul 01 - 04:42 PM
Gareth 06 Jul 01 - 07:51 PM
Jon Freeman 06 Jul 01 - 07:14 PM
Gareth 06 Jul 01 - 07:06 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 10:01 AM

Full credit to Gilchrist for making such a sporting declaration rather than going for the draw that they certainly could have achieved. OK, the Ashes were already won but he didn't have to make a game of this match.

Mark Butcher was a joy to watch. In the Daily Telegraph, Gilchirst is quoted as calling it "one of the greatest Ashes knocks" and saying "We could see it was something special, and when he got his hundred, I've never seen so many of our guys go in and congratulate a guy at once".

Jon

PS Terry, you mean Mark Waugh.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 09:44 AM

What a final day and hurrah for Mark Butcher. However methinks a certain umpire needs a new set of glasses regarding quite a number of "catches" in this match. Onwards to the Oval where (word has it) we may even see some England spinners :O


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Terry K
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 05:08 AM

Well done Gilchrist for taking the risk which made it such an exciting match. (I will ignore the rather inane comment in the previous post). I think it was a good captain's call; after all, who would have believed that England could get the runs, or that Australia couldn't bowl us out in three full sessions. Gilchrist wanted to win so as to get the whitewash the media talk about and any other decision would have resulted in a lame draw.

Cricket was the real winner but it goes to show we can perform to the best standard from a technical standpoint. It's just that "mental toughness" that we lack and in which the Aussies abound. Fantastic stuff. And yes, I thought Mark Hughes looked just a little guilty when he caught Ramps - but then I am English!

Cheers, Terry


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: GUEST,John Gray / Australia
Date: 20 Aug 01 - 11:34 PM

What price England to win ? Now if Gilchrist and the boys had of slipped into Ladbrokes and placed a bet or two well, that's how disenchanted I am now that the lovely game of cricket has been corrupted. Sigh.

JG / F.M.E.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 20 Aug 01 - 04:45 PM

Sqw it Brian - I was on the edge of my seat! Thank god gilchrist declared and gave us a fighting chance. Did you think the Ramprakash catch was a bit suspect?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Cobble
Date: 20 Aug 01 - 01:19 PM

WOW !!! At last England give them aussies a beating.

What a great second innings from Mark Butcher.

I understand it's twenty years since the aussies got beaten in the uk and that was at Headingly too. Well done to the LADS.

Ickle did you get to see it?

Hope Yorkshire can win too. 1968 sice they last won the Championship

Mrs C.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 02:18 PM

I have now come to the conclusion that since it appears that only the girls (and later boys) at my particular school were made to play gym and games in their knickers, that we were in the hands of a pervert for all those years, which could have explained the gym teacher Miss Lumley's deep voice and strange behaviour in the showers -I think I need councelling! Not sure Athers is up the job of both batting and captaincy unless they drop him in the order -views anyone?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Gareth
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 01:31 PM

Grad,

The ground with the tree, its Kent St Laurence ground at Canterbury.

The tree needs replacing. I understand it will still be within the boundary.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Grab
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 12:17 PM

I forgot school rules. We played leg cricket with a tennis ball, so extra rules like catching one-handed after it had bounced once.

There's actually a proper pitch somewhere (whose name and location excape me) where there is a tree at the edge of the pitch, and there are local rules for that club about what happens if the ball hits the tree.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 11:40 AM

Les

is that similar to skool rools? :- You can only be out if caught one-handed off the library wall, and hitting it through the staffroom window is six and out!

also if you play at Bray (Michael Parkinsons home ground!) there used to be a rule that if you could hit it over the sightscreen and into the Thames you won a barrel of beer!

I see Athers is going to skipper the Lords game :)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 01:24 PM

What about 'three back gardens and you're out!'


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Grab
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 01:21 PM

Ickle Dorrit, when were you playing sports in your knickers??? Do you still do it? that'd be a sight worth paying for! ;-)

LEJ, you stick 3 posts in the ground with an inch or so between them and stand in from of them. There's another post (or 3) in the ground some distance away. Then someone chucks (without bending their elbow) a ball at your posts from the far posts - usually the ball hits the ground and bounces first (this allows spin to be used) but not always. You have to stop them hitting your posts whilst belting the ball as far as you can. 10 (or less or more if you're playing with friends) other ppl stand around and try to catch or intercept the ball, while you leg it up and down between the sets of posts as many times as you can - each time counts for 1 run. If the thrower hits your posts, if someone catches a ball you've hit before it touches the ground, or if the other 11 ppl tag either set of posts with the ball before you've reached that set of posts, you're out.

If you belt the ball out of the grounds, you get 4 runs if it bounces first or 6 if it goes clean out. Pub rules - if the ball goes somewhere unreachable or unwanted (up a tree, in a pond, over a fence, through a window, etc) then you get 6 runs and are then out.

Terms: "you" are the batsman, the "thrower" is the bowler, the "other 10" are the fielders, the "posts" are the wickets.

Penny, there's others too - think of polo, croquet, lawn bowls, lawn tennis. All developed for use by rich ppl with large gardens which were well cared for by legions of gardeners.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Penny S.
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 05:54 PM

LEJ, what you need to start with is beach cricket. You only need four stumps, one at the bowling end, three at the batting end, and usually no bails. It is traditionally played on an as flat as possible sandy beach, parallel to the sea, so the line between the wickets is as flat as possible, but could in theory be played on any suitable level surface. I would not recommend a road, as though tarmac is good to bounce the ball off, the authorities may not like the holes. When I played, there would be a batter against everybody else, depending on how many there were in the family or group, with everyone taking turns in order. It avoids a lot of the technical stuff like calling whether to run or not and getting run out, but uses the bowling and batting skills.

What always puzzles me about the game is how we developed a game which demands a special surface for which there is no other purpose. Although it began in areas where there are flat sandy heaths. Almost all our other games, including baseball (which Jane Austen referred to) use pitched balls, off the ground. The closest relative is stoolball, played in the same area as cricket began, by women, with the same game structure of team size and innings, but which (according to cricket historians) has nothing whatever to do with cricket as it was played by women. The one which does require a special pitch is Bat and Trap, played round the back of pubs, and in which the batter can play with a pint in hand.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 11:54 AM

On the basis that it's a five test series(?), that'll be on day 2 or 3 of the third test.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 11:45 AM

It's a pity there's no whether in the Ashes Series. It's not whether or not we're going to lose to the Aussies, it's when.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Jim Cheydi
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 11:33 AM

Oh yes, we have weather in baseball too.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 11:28 AM

Then of course you have to have a couple of Malaysian business men whose job it is to ask the players about the weather -do you get that in baseball?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Jim Cheydi
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 07:52 AM

You missed a bit EJ.

Having shot someone and nicked his country, the colonisers taught cricket to the locals. They would then organise a match (colonists v locals). The newspapers would talk up the colonists chances and then pillory them after the locals had won by an innings and 5 billion runs by lunch on day two. Only then would they politely withdraw.

JC


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: English Jon
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 07:43 AM

It seems to me that the British empire used to colonise places, teach the locals how to play cricket, then politely withdraw.

EJ


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 05:11 AM

Tee Hee Les!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 07:12 PM

Ickle - Goran IvorNovellovich? I thought that was his Dad up in the stand. Are we to believe that the famous band leader had a hand in it (well not really a hand).

Les


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Gareth
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 05:05 PM

Non Celts should remember,

"Its another triumph for Gt Britain !"

or

"England loses again !"

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 04:51 PM

Sorry to post again so quickly -but I've had one of those Road to Damascus moments! I have just realised why as a nation the British are so crap at sports -it's so simple and yet noone else has thought of it! -We are all psychologically damaged from having to parade around in public wearing a sports top and KNICKERS. What other country in the world would allow young men and women to parade in public in this manner -what was wrong with shorts? My grey flannel jobs even had my initials sewn on them -God who would want to steal them!!!! I bet Goran Ivanellofanich was never made to play in his underpants as a lad.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 04:43 PM

Humblest apologies to the national sides of Wales and Scotland- John Gray LOL. Do we have an opinion on Channel 4 coverage -I think I approve, the visual aids certainly help and the adverts are minimised -then of course there is the gorgeous Dermot Reeve .....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 11:38 AM

Re: Nasser needing steel guantlets - that would certainly be one answer, the other would be for him to get his bat on the ball!

Brian


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 11:28 AM

or the the bowler's Holding the batsman's Willey.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: GUEST,John Gray / Australia
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 11:25 AM

And what other game in the world would have such a beautiful term for a piece of play as ; bowling a maiden over.

JG / F.M.E.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 11:01 AM

I love it John.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: GUEST,John Gray / Australia
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 10:52 AM

For about 50 years now historians here in Oz have been hotly debating the main reason as to why England decided to colonise this land 212 odd years ago. One school of thought opts for the military theory, in which if the English didn't take possession their long-time foe, the French, would. ( Possession took place 12 years after Cook discovered the east coast of Oz ) The other theory is the convict problem. At the time there were prison hulks and gaols all around England that were chockablock with convicts. Local populations were becoming very chary that mass escapes might occur. So, the gov't solved the convict problem by shipping them out to Oz. Both these theories are of course totally wrong. What actually happened was this ;

It was winter in England. Parliament was in session and they were bored shitless. They were waiting for summer - the start of the cricket season. The minister for sport, Lord Adidas, in a statement of breathtaking vision, sleepily said to his collegues ; I say blokes, do you realise that in the southern hemisphere its summer now. The minister for overseas travel, Lord Branston, jumped to his feet shouting 'get me a map of the Southern Ocean. Didn't we have a navy boy discover a bit of real estate down there a few years ago? You know, lieut. Chef or something, the dickhead who got himself speared and eaten.' All the other Lords gathered around, at last they had found a place for the English cricket team to go and play during the off season. So they put together a fleet of 11 ships, filled them to the brim with convicts, put them under the command of Captain Arthur Phillip .( who was known to be able to occasionally roll his arm over and send down a respectable leg-break ) Quite symbolic that, 11 ships in the first fleet, 11 players in a cricket team. Breed Phillip were his instructions, get these buggers down to that bit of southern real estate, put up the flag, mark out a cricket pitch, and start breeding. You have to build up an audience so that there is a decent crowd to watch the MCC First Eleven when we send it down there in winter.

So there you have it, nothing to do with the Frogs, nothing to do with excess convicts. Australia was developed for the love of cricket !

JG / F.M.E.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 09:14 AM

Oh deeping gloom :(

Nasser will have to bat in steel gauntlets if this keeps up.

Where is David Stanley Steele when you need him (or his successor?)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: GMT
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 07:19 AM

You have two sides one out in the field and one in.
Each man that's in the side that's in goes out and
when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in
until he's out.

When they are all out the side that's out comes in and
the side that's been in goes out and tries to get
those coming in out.

Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When both sides have been in and out including the not
outs , that's the end of the game !

Borrowed from the web

Cheers Gary


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Jim Cheydi
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 07:07 AM

Wales also has a national side. Two if some of the commentators on BBC Wales are to be believed as Glamorgan v anyone else is looked on as Wales v England.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 06:54 AM

Probably more than you want LEJ but this page looks quite good.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 05:41 AM

Well, I hate to say it, but I was right! Even with interuptions because of rain we didn't manage to last the full five days. Still, we can hope for a heroic (miraculous) fightback in the next test.

BTW Ickle Dorritt, Scotland DO have a national team, and Wales (although clearly very careful to keep their good name out of it)are part of the 'England' team.

I liked the Austin cartoon on the front of today's Guardian - it features a man informing the Australian Immigration service that "I took the Tebbit test and found I'd become Australian".

Brian


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 05:01 AM

It's easy Lonesome, on an international level, you get 12 men, usually from New Zealand or Australia, but whose granny ate a slice of Dundee cake once and can therefore claim to be British; who in the absence of homegrown talent form the English cricket team. (Note that Scotland and Wales do not have a national team, thus displaying far more common sense that we have previously given them credit for.) We then equip them with a large willow bat, a box for protection of various genitalia and point them in the direction of some other idiot who is hurling a hard leather object at them at 120 m.p.h. Needless to say, the national expectation of each batsman achieving several hundred runs is not met by their own personal target of say 2 or 3, which most of the middle order fail to achieve. But hey, it's not the winning, it's the taking part that counts.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 01:25 AM

Years ago, I bought a cricket kit while in England, but I've never taken it out of the bag. Maybe someday one of you blokes can give me the basic rules.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 06:59 PM

Ickle Dorrit, I wouldn't bother sabotaging them - just make sure that Shane Warne gets his share. I've heard he is only really happy eating burgers and other junk food

Now, thats 1 down, 10 to go...

(I'd better say I'm not knocking his choice of diet - I'm just making use of somthing I'd read about).

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Cobble
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 06:45 PM

TOO RIGHT COBBER

Mrs C


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 02:37 PM

Well guys, I think we need a new plan of attack - we have to sabotage the cucumber sandwiches - these Australians cannot be allowed to get away with it!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 01:58 PM

In baseball they are taking with a radar gun, I believe, which can capture the speed in midflight by gauging two datapoints only fractions of a millsecond apart.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: GUEST,colwyn dane
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 01:14 PM

Thank you Lonesome for your feedback.

I would,IMHO,think that measuring the speed of a pitched baseball is much easier than in cricket.
I don't know how they do it but presumably it is the time taken by the ball to travel from the hand of the pitcher
to the batting plate which is approx 60 feet away, give or take a few inches.
This would take, if my maths are correct, .43076 seconds.

In cricket the distance from stumps to stumps is 66 feet but the batsmen usually stand astride the popping crease, which is 4 feet in front of where the stumps are.
The bowler can release the ball providing all of his front foot is not over the non-strikers popping crease;
this makes the distance the ball travels from bowler to batsman approximately 58 feet.
This distance can vary depending on what size boots the bowler takes to the angle of the bowler to the batsman.
To travel 58 feet in .4306 seconds would require the ball to be bowled at roughly 92mph.

Does anybody out there know how the speed measurements are taken?

Thanks for your time.
CD.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Sooz
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 11:57 AM

Five days is a bit of a joke. Mike and I have tickets for days 4 and 5 at Trent Bridge next month, I suppose we might get to use them if it rains on the Thursday (and Friday and Saturday).


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 11:07 AM

O well, first test all over - we only lost by an innings an 118 runs!

LEJ, that made sense to me, thanks.

re my comments on feilding positions, something was mentioned on the tv today that I hadn't thought about: The bowlers are often given easier fielding positions in an attempt to give them some rest between overs/ bowling spells.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 11:01 AM

Cricket will never be the same since I read the "Hitchikers Guide to the Universe" (ahem) trilogy.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 12:44 AM

There are nine players on a baseball team, Jon. The same players who play the field positions also bat. At any time, the coach may substitute a new player at any position, but the original player may not return to the game thereafter. A "pinch hitter" may be put in the game to replace a weak hitter in a crucial situation (often a worn-out pitcher who is ready to be replaced), but thereafter the pinch hitter must play or be himself replaced. A team having a bad game can use all of their players in this manner, and have to resort to such oddities as a reserve first-baseman who has to pitch.

Confusing, I know, but did I answer your question, Jon?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 09:40 PM

Thanks LEJ for a little insight into baseball.

With regard to cricket and fielding, the standard seems to me to be very good all round. There are no hard and fast rules about fielding positions and bowlers and batsmen but I think there is (maybe just my imagination - I'm no expert) that batsmen tend to field in the closer positions (I'd guess because they may have sharper reactions and hand/eye co-ordination) and bowlers tend to feild in the outer positions (perhaps they have stronger hands to throw the ball in).

I notice you mention speed, they show the speed on the TV a lot of the time in cricket now. A fast bowler may exceed 90mph, and a spin bowler may do say 55mph.

One question re the team, in cricket, you are basically allowed the 11 players. When fielding but a "12th man" is allowed when a player has to go of the field (not allowed to bowl though) and when bating, a batsman can have a runner if injured. Am I right in thinking that from your description, a baseball team may field any combination from a set of players at any time?

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 04:42 PM

Is the hitter allowed to move his feet so as to get near to the line of the ball? If not and he does what is the penalty?

What happens if the hitter receives 3 wide pitches is he required to move on to 1st base or can he opt to receive another 3 legal pitches?...colwyn

The hitter can move his feet no closer than the edge of the five-sided flat rubber thing called "home plate". The usual stance is with feet about 12 inches away from the plate. If the batter moves to the edge, his upper body is often in "the strike zone" the area overlapping the plate on both sides and starting about knee-high and going up to nearly the breast-bone, and he's said to be "crowding the plate." He does this at his own risk, since Major League fastballs often exceed 95 miles per hour. An "inside" fastball (close to the batter) is designed to dissuade the batter from crowding, and is often called a "brush back" or "brush". There's no penalty assessed for crowding, though. A batter struck by the ball may go safely to first base.

Pitches wide of the strike zone are called "balls" as opposed to pitches within the strike zone ("strikes"). Strikes are also any pitches that a batter swings at and misses. Three strikes makes an "out", four balls and a batter takes first base safely on a "walk". There are no other options.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Gareth
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:51 PM

Jon Ye Gods that was fast- 8 minutes !

Thanks

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:14 PM

here you are Gareth - 1950 apparently.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: The Ashes
From: Gareth
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:06 PM

"Cricket, lovley Cricket,
At Lords there I saw it,
With those two good friends of mine,
Rhamadin and Valentine"

A mock calypso dating from a WIndies tour of the Uk in the 1940's or Early 50's.

Any body remember or know the lyrics ?,

or does this call for a New Thread ?

Gareth.


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