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BS: Should UK join the Euro ?

Don(Wyziwyg)T 03 Jun 10 - 07:47 AM
Stringsinger 02 Jun 10 - 09:44 AM
Ringer 01 Jun 10 - 09:47 AM
Wolfgang 31 May 10 - 01:39 PM
Ringer 31 May 10 - 03:11 AM
Ringer 21 May 10 - 05:54 AM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Feb 05 - 05:57 AM
ard mhacha 03 Feb 05 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,a normal person 03 Feb 05 - 07:25 AM
Terry K 30 Jan 05 - 05:27 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 29 Jan 05 - 08:04 PM
Terry K 29 Jan 05 - 09:20 AM
Wilfried Schaum 29 Jan 05 - 07:52 AM
MudGuard 29 Jan 05 - 05:46 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 29 Jan 05 - 05:09 AM
JennyO 28 Jan 05 - 11:16 PM
MudGuard 28 Jan 05 - 05:59 PM
Liz the Squeak 28 Jan 05 - 05:57 PM
*Laura* 28 Jan 05 - 05:47 PM
GUEST,Ferdinand 27 Jan 05 - 11:08 PM
GUEST,Wolfgang 23 Nov 04 - 07:18 AM
Ooh-Aah2 19 Nov 04 - 06:15 PM
dianavan 19 Nov 04 - 01:49 PM
GUEST,Betsy 19 Nov 04 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,Terry K 19 Nov 04 - 11:46 AM
burntstump 19 Nov 04 - 03:59 AM
Wolfgang 19 Nov 04 - 03:55 AM
burntstump 18 Nov 04 - 07:15 AM
Wilfried Schaum 18 Nov 04 - 07:07 AM
GUEST,Boab 18 Nov 04 - 02:46 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Nov 04 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,adam 17 Nov 04 - 08:50 AM
GUEST,sorefingers 07 Jun 03 - 03:07 PM
John MacKenzie 07 Jun 03 - 07:01 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jun 03 - 07:46 PM
mooman 06 Jun 03 - 10:27 AM
John MacKenzie 06 Jun 03 - 09:49 AM
mooman 06 Jun 03 - 08:43 AM
GUEST 06 Jun 03 - 08:39 AM
GUEST,John from Hull 06 Jun 03 - 08:30 AM
Nigel Parsons 19 Jun 02 - 04:36 AM
Hrothgar 19 Jun 02 - 04:33 AM
GUEST 19 Jun 02 - 12:41 AM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 18 Jun 02 - 10:51 AM
Wolfgang 18 Jun 02 - 10:10 AM
Ringer 18 Jun 02 - 08:48 AM
MudGuard 10 Dec 01 - 09:28 AM
Wolfgang 10 Dec 01 - 07:35 AM
Ringer 10 Dec 01 - 07:21 AM
Wolfgang 10 Dec 01 - 07:16 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 07:47 AM

We would certainly need a much more stable situation before tying our currency to an organisation which has so many lame ducks to support.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 09:44 AM

They would be foolish to do it. It is already destroying the Greek economy. It could imperil theirs. There is no advantage to it for the UK.

The problem is that the International Economy is controlled by the World Bank and the IMF.
This centralization of control means that the UK could suffer the same fate as Greece.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Ringer
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 09:47 AM

Thanks, Wolfgang.

Let's come back in 5 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 31 May 10 - 01:39 PM

I'm still here, but only occasionally and even then mostly reading and not writing. So I didn't see your older post.

I'm convinced it'll be with us in five years as well, though with, I hope, changed rules. The odds for that opinion? 75% probability I'll be right, 25% I'll be wrong.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Ringer
Date: 31 May 10 - 03:11 AM

Bump

Are you still here, Wolfgang?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Ringer
Date: 21 May 10 - 05:54 AM

Are you still here, Wolfgang?

I admit that my 5-year prediction timescale was incorrect. But the euro has only just hit its first "bad time". What odds do you offer that it will survive the next 5 years?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 05:57 AM

If you plan taking another trip abroad in the foreseeable future you might do better to stick the unused euros in a drawer somewhere.

I still think it'd go a down a lot better here if it was referred to as "the (euro)Quid". I suspect we'll end up calling it that anyway. Or (euro)Dollar maybe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 07:46 AM

All of the large super markets in the north of Ireland take the Euro, as do most of the small shops, it is all money,


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST,a normal person
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 07:25 AM

get a life, ringer wolfgang...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Terry K
Date: 30 Jan 05 - 05:27 PM

No, I don't work for a bank, nor do I necessarily have very much going for them. But I have heard tedious rhetoric like that trotted out ad nauseam, and am heartily sick of it. So the percentage doesn't matter? So why exaggerate to try to make a non-point? Why not use a more likely figure - less effective is it?

I'd like to introduce to you the concept of people doing work and getting paid for it. Someone changes your money, he gets paid for it. Someone else changes the same money, he gets paid for it. Like if a plumber installs a bathroom for you, he may want paying again when he removes it some time later.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 08:04 PM

Do you work for a bank then Terry?

There's always one who's so focussed on examining the tree, that he's unaware he has walked into a wood.

The same partially trained monkey could also assist you by pointing out that the percentage isn't the point. It's the fact that they grab it in both directions, and you lose twice.

regards back at ya
Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Terry K
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 09:20 AM

"greedy bankers grabbing 15% going in and coming out"

- it's the careless use of throwaway lines like this that cause impartial observers to believe it might be true, rather than just the prejudiced shite it really is.

A partially trained monkey could find a better deal than 15% each way, so I suggest you either get your facts straight or stop using unlicensed rip-off merchants to change your money.

best regards, Terry


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 07:52 AM

Hi Don - d'accord! Eurogatherings in the UK would be less expensive for us continentals.

Liz - that's the way of prices: they always increase. Some dealers took the chance to increase their prices more than usual; others waited till they had to change their menus to € and so avoided additional printing costs. Others changed their prices in the government ratio between mark and €.
Now guess who lost customers, and who gained?.

All in all: A common currency WILL lead to a common economy system, not immediately, but by and by. And as I said in a post some years ago: The costs of a common currency system are cheaper than the next paneuropean war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: MudGuard
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 05:46 AM

Thanks, JennyO (how should a non-native speaker know such things ...)

Don, you mention sovereignty - is the sovereign still used as a coin? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 05:09 AM

Among many other benefits, joining the Euro would remove the current drain on holiday funds caused by greedy bankers grabbing 15% going in and coming out. So YES!!!

Sovereignty is another issue, and we should be able to indicate our feelings on that one to the government, if we shout very loudly about vanishing votes.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: JennyO
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 11:16 PM

Mudguard - "pretty" with a Southern accent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: MudGuard
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 05:59 PM

Hm - my dictionary can't translate "purty". What does it mean?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 05:57 PM

So why do most German folk I know say they wish they'd never voted to join it? And my Greek friend Christiana says prices have more than doubled since Greece joined.

We cannot have a common currency until we have a common interest rate and a common minimum living wage.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: *Laura*
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 05:47 PM

but pounds are so purty!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST,Ferdinand
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 11:08 PM

Sorry to say igno
rance.The Euro is a good invention.   Ferdinand


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:18 AM

Is it bias that a cup of coffee went from 100 pesetas to 1€ an increase of 40%? (burntstump)

No, burntstump, though any single example may be correct, the bias in general comes from selectively recollecting outrageous examples of increases and selectively forgetting instances of decreases. But you could tell that from my post, couldn't you?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Ooh-Aah2
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 06:15 PM

In that case the Europeans should use British money, because it's extremely beautiful - those wonderful chunky pound and 2 pound coins you have, with the words stamped into their rims and Scots thistles, heraldry etc, the wonderful notes - the Euro is plastic monopoly money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 01:49 PM

Yes, the UK should join Euro and Europe should use one currency.

The U.S. should start using Canadian currency because its so much prettier.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 01:36 PM

No, Non , Nein - never - there's not one of those countries you could count on for support in a hard time.
They're all takers takers takers - leave 'em to it.
Cassius Clay (as he was) said " If you put a load of different animals in a cage - after a day or two - only one will be left ".
In this case - I fear the German would emerge triumphant.
so it will come to pass.
Leave 'em to it !!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 11:46 AM

Think on this - we have recently had a period of rampant house price inflation. The Government's response has been to increase the interest rate to try to slow the market down (very sensible, up to a point) and all the signs indicate that it is working. One criterion for entry into the Euro is that we need parity of interest rates with the eurozone, in other words, our interest rate should be reduced to two point something.

My question would be, what would house price inflation be like now, if we did have an interest rate of two point something?

And if we do join the Euro and suffer a similar bout of house price inflation, what would we be able to do to quell it?

Do we really want our mortgage rate to be controlled by Brussels?

Terry


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: burntstump
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:59 AM

Is it bias that a cup of coffee went from 100 pesetas to 1€ an increase of 40%?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 03:55 AM

In questions of inflation I never trust personal experiences and anecdotes. People tend to note the high increases and to forget the decreases. The statistics hvae been sampled by the same process before and after the Euro and there was no net increase. The years before and after looked very similar.

The bias in noticing in particular the increases comes from some highly visible increases which are explained easily. For instance restaurant prices have gone up visibly: All restaurants had to change the printed menues from Mark to Euro. So none of them did any price increase in the last two years before the Euro and all of them waited until the day of the introduction. Doing it twice would have meant double costs. The same is valid for instance for our hairdressers. They made the routine increase coincidental with the introduction of the Euro.

Those prices like in the supermarkets we do not usually recollect because they change weekly, did not go up or even did go down.

It is a bias in perception, nothing else.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: burntstump
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 07:15 AM

Can anyone explain why the € to £ exchangr rate is so low, I am sure the whole thing is being manipulated to get the UK to join the €.

I travel to Spain quite a lot on business and the prices have soared since the introduction of the Euro.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 07:07 AM

Oh please, do it and join the €!
I still remeber the days when you lost changing your money at the border (in 1969: five borders and four currencies on one single day!); but now I can visit a lot of European countries and can exactly compare the prices in a foreign land.
How would I have appreciated the € in Hull this year!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 02:46 AM

I don't think that adoption of the Euro in the UK is inevitable. And while I doubt that it would be to my personal benefit [Pensions--not prices-- tend to be rounded down rather than up!], I do think that it would benefit the people in the long run. It would encourage European integration for a start [and by geography and ancestry Brits ARE European], and would harmonise monetary affairs and facilitate trade. I hope the people vote "yes". Britain is an offshore European island. We should accept that, and cease the harking back to the days of Empire. They are in the past, and a good thing too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 09:23 AM

yes even if its only to upset all the old farts at the tory conference. whatever they want for the country is bad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST,adam
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:50 AM

hi, i was wandering if anyone could advise me on any websites that will help me understand the financial arguments for and against the uk adopting the euro

thanks


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 03:07 PM

The news that there will be a (:uro referendum is a diversion from the very real and enormous - for the UK at least - changes that could result in a Constitutional Treaty for all of Europe being endorsed in the UK by referendum.

If passed -then the EU would begin to do it's thing unimpeded by the naysayers, orif rejected then the rest of the EU would get on with their Federal program - btw this was squished by Bush and his friends in the UK Tories not excluded -.

It looked like a win win situation for the antiEU lobby until last week when oppositiona and backbenchers began asking irritating questions like - where are the WMDs?

The currency is but a very small part of this Global realignment and the US is learning the bitter lessons that Rome once had to; that you can't make people 'free' if they don't want that, you can't force your reality on them while stealing their country - the UK knows all about that one see Ireland for more data - , and you are simply wasting your time thinking superior technology wins every battle - see Adolp Hitler or Nalpolean for more data.

So while in the USA the Repulicons are chanting 'Hail Seizer' the Labor lobby in the UK sing 'Jail the seizers'


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 07:01 AM

Very deep Kevin! ¦¬]....Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 07:46 PM

Brussels had a far far better Eurovision song anyway...

The main thing that would tend to incline me against the euro is when I listen to the people who are in favour of joining; and the main thing that would tend to incline me to support joining is when I listen to the people who are against it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: mooman
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 10:27 AM

Swings and roundabouts Giok!

Beer is 6% here as it is classed as a "daily necessity"! (and very good it is too - so I'm told)

In Belgium there was very little price increase as a result of the Euro with some cash registers coverting to three decimal places to try to reassure customers.

All the best

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 09:49 AM

Those of us who are of the more mature persuasion will remember the fiasco in 1971 when the UK went decimal, when everything went up in price virtually overnight. I now hear tales of inflation up to 40% on some items in Greece since they joined the common currency. As GUEST John said above, all it will mean is another increase in the cost of living. Also don't let us forget the VAT exceptions which we enjoy at present which we will certainly lose if we join, kids clothes [I think that still applies], and food, VAT on food would be a killer, for some people food is over 65% of their weekly income.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: mooman
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 08:43 AM

You are most welcome UK and we will welcome you wholeheartedly.

Britain ruled from Brussels? No...I don't think so now or in the future Nigel!

moo (in Brussels and a very happy user of Euros as a frequent European traveller but not working for any of the European institutions)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 08:39 AM

its probably a big rip off anyway, i bet iff we get the euro here they will round all the prices up.john


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST,John from Hull
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 08:30 AM

Hello.,I think no way we should use that foreign money,if they cant be bothered to vote for us in the European song contest,then why should we use there silly money?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 04:36 AM

From what I've seen so far, maybe the Euro should join the pound. It's much healthier.
Then, instead of Britain being ruled by Brussels, King Tony would rule Europe... Bad idea, scratch that one

No! let's keep the pound separate.

Nigel


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 04:33 AM

Not if the euro concerned is Macropus Robustus, the euro or common rock wallaby. It lives in very uncomfortable places.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 12:41 AM

NO!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:51 AM

The alligator vote favours the Euro.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:10 AM

My answer here in five years.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Ringer
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 08:48 AM

I thought I'd let you stew for a year or so, Wolfgang (*BG*), before I answered your question of 20-June-01 above (about how/why the single currency introduced in 1871 within the German statelets which became Germany succeeded). I know almost nothing of German history of that time, so feel free to shoot me down. Could it have had anything to do with
  1. a common language?
  2. Bismarck having imposed it by force, suppressing any opposition?
1 is the killer, imo. If the euro is to work, then, since the economic safety valves of floating exchange-rates and individual interest-rates are not available, there must be migration from slump areas to boom areas if vicious circles of slump in the former and boom in the latter are not to get out of hand. But the lack of a common language militates against such migration.

Can you, for example, see unemployed Greeks migrating en masse to Finland for jobs? One or two, sure. I saw a recent survey suggesting that inter-country movement in the EU was only 3% of inter-state movement in the USA (and it's less now than it was thirty or forty years ago). And that's why a single currency in the US works, but in the EU won't.

I saw a reference to Sir Christopher Meyer, US Ambassador to UK, indicating that the euro was almost irrelevant to US companies seeking to invest in Europe. "Factors such as a common language, culture and a more flexible market were far more important" (The Business, 9 June 2002 - can't find it on the Web, I'm afraid).

As regards 2, look at Yugoslavia for an example of how compulsion can keep disparate peoples together, but only for a while; release the force and it all flies apart. And nobody's asked the people of Europe whether they want to be joined in a EU. (Britain, 1973: "remain in the Common Market?"; France & Denmark: "join the euro?" - and France only just said yes, Denmark No; Ireland: "is Nice OK?" - No).

All the pressure for integration comes from hubristic, egotistic, bureaucrato-maniacal politicians motivated to a greater or lesser degree by anti-USA-ism. But this pressure is lessening, I think. Schroeder is less keen on the EU than Kohl was (specially when he's got an election to win - or more probably lose), Chirac than Mitterand. Both know that knocking the EU ups them in the popularity stakes, but neither will (publically) draw the obvious conclusion: "The EU is unpopular. Let's call a halt to further integrationism till people catch up." (An alternative would be: "The EU is unpopular. Let's dismantle it.")

I notice, incidentally, that I'm in good (or at least august) company in predicting the failure of the euro: Sir Alan Walters, economic guru to Margaret Thatcher, recently made the same prediction, and with the same timescale (5 years, though, since I made my prediction a year earlier than he did, my 5 years terminates a year before his). Like or loath his economics, his predicting track-record is not unimpressive.

I make another prediction: the much-vaunted expansion eastwards of the EU will not occur. And it won't be (entirely) Ireland's responsibility, although I hope that the Irish will raise two fingers to the politicians, who simply can't take No for an answer, and overwhelmingly vote No again!

I've wandered off the point, as usual: how does my answer score?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: MudGuard
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 09:28 AM

Hello Wolfgang,

I have already touched the coins (they look very nice and shiny - but this might be because they had not been in use) and some of the notes (5, 10 and 20) as my brother-in-law already got his business starter kit.

And I also do not like the German name starter kit (probably an English name was chosen because England is not participating...)

MudGuard/Andreas


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 07:35 AM

Not that much. We gain 0.008 DM by buying the (now comes the official German name:) 'starter kit', not worth walking even to the closest branch except for the fun of it.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Ringer
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 07:21 AM

Is that "minor amount of money" the difference between DM20 and a whole number of euros rounded up? (Be about €10 wouldn't it?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should UK join the Euro ?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 07:16 AM

From 17th of December on, we all (in Germany) can get at our banks a so called 'small change kit' of the new Euro. We are not allowed to use it before the first minute of 1st of January, but we may touch it just to enjoy the feeling and to get used to it. That's their idea of a smooth start and as an incentive you win a minor amount of money by changeing 20 Marks into some assorted coins.

Wolfgang


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