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BS: THE TRUTH

kendall 01 Jun 01 - 01:44 PM
mousethief 01 Jun 01 - 01:50 PM
Jim Krause 01 Jun 01 - 01:59 PM
Clinton Hammond 01 Jun 01 - 02:03 PM
Jim Dixon 01 Jun 01 - 02:15 PM
Kim C 01 Jun 01 - 02:19 PM
CarolC 01 Jun 01 - 02:44 PM
BobP 01 Jun 01 - 02:54 PM
SDShad 01 Jun 01 - 02:56 PM
chip a 01 Jun 01 - 03:07 PM
CarolC 01 Jun 01 - 03:11 PM
GUEST,djh 01 Jun 01 - 03:26 PM
dwditty 01 Jun 01 - 03:28 PM
SDShad 01 Jun 01 - 03:30 PM
Charley Noble 01 Jun 01 - 03:47 PM
Little Hawk 01 Jun 01 - 04:38 PM
chip a 01 Jun 01 - 04:39 PM
SDShad 01 Jun 01 - 04:43 PM
Peg 01 Jun 01 - 05:01 PM
chip a 01 Jun 01 - 05:10 PM
Jim Dixon 01 Jun 01 - 06:08 PM
Sorcha 01 Jun 01 - 06:14 PM
Little Hawk 01 Jun 01 - 06:21 PM
CarolC 01 Jun 01 - 07:11 PM
kendall 01 Jun 01 - 07:27 PM
wdyat12 01 Jun 01 - 07:33 PM
Jim Dixon 01 Jun 01 - 07:42 PM
wdyat12 01 Jun 01 - 07:47 PM
MarkS 01 Jun 01 - 07:57 PM
Jim Dixon 01 Jun 01 - 08:28 PM
Sorcha 01 Jun 01 - 08:56 PM
Jim Dixon 01 Jun 01 - 10:04 PM
marty D 01 Jun 01 - 10:42 PM
kendall 02 Jun 01 - 08:48 AM
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Subject: THE TRUTH
From: kendall
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 01:44 PM

Remember those rumors about the Clinton administration trashing the White House and vandalizing government buildings when they left? Well! I heard a report today on public radio, and, as a result of an investigation by the GSA (General Services Administration) the agency that takes care of government property, it was all a bunch of crap. It never happened!

Good grief, was the truth about that bunch not bad enough that the right wingers had to make up this s..t?


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: mousethief
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 01:50 PM

They were just returning honor and integrity to the Whitehouse. LOL!

Alex


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Jim Krause
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 01:59 PM

Ha! I knew it!


Jimwhohasbeenaccusedofbeingslightlyred


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 02:03 PM

I did no such thing!!

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 02:15 PM

Can anyone cite a source for this information? I'd love to read the full report. I'd like to know who started the rumor in the first place, and why the media so readily reported it. I hope whoever is responsible for this hoax gets hung out to dry.

By the way, I heard that SOME of the furniture that the Clintons removed from the White House, and later returned, turned out to have been given to the Clintons after all. But this was never reported as widely as the original removal, was it? While I have no doubt this actually happened, I am inclined to attribute it to honest mistakes, rather than dishonesty and greed, as some have done.


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Kim C
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 02:19 PM

I heard at the time, that it's a pretty common practice for the employees of the outgoing administration to do little pranks. Not vandalism, necessarily, but a little devilment.

I won't argue that it was probably way overhyped. But where there's smoke, there may be fire.


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 02:44 PM

It was the same thing with the news coverage (fabrication) of the infamous $200 haircut that held up airport traffic for hours. Remember that little bit of journalistic idiocy?

It never happened. The figure of $200 came from one of the news people calling the hair stylist who did Clinton's hair and asking what their most expensive hair cut cost. The actual cost of President Clinton's hair cut was somewhere around $20. And Airforce One never held up any air traffic, either. It was parked on a side runway that was not in use at the time.

It's stuff like this that makes me laugh at people who think the media has a liberal bias.


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: BobP
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 02:54 PM

The press created it, the press tried to bury it.

The NY Times (story origin) produced no documents issued by Bush Administration Officials supporting the notion that charges were made based on isinformation.

A typical bugout mess was the language I recall hearing on the news the night the story broke.

Think about it, someone ranksacks your office, so you inventory the damage and file a police, or at least an insurance report. Now imagine doing that anonymously.

It's certainly not my job to defend repubs but there should be plenty of documented atrocities by now to "get them on".

By the way, does anyone know where that feces laden Madonna hangs these days?


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: SDShad
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 02:56 PM

My favorite bit of all the prankery, far funnier than removing the Ws from keyboards, was the hanging of signs on various doors that said things like "Office of Strategery."

But, consider that this White House team, led by Karl Rove, is the same bunch that ran--with success, sadly--a vicious whisper campaign against John McCain during the South Carolina primary suggesting that he, well, maybe wasn't too right in the head due to having been tortured in Vietnam.

Tortured in Vietnam, mind you, at the same time George Walker Bush was sitting out the war in an Air National Guard assignment that he never really had to show up for, courtesy of Daddy.

So is it any wonder that Rove and his bunch privately encouraged the rumors of vandalism, providing journalists with alleged details of the vandalism--"on background," mind you--while publicly downplaying the scandal with a quick wink and a nudge, saying they wouldn't get into all that because their boy is a uniter, not a divider, and came to change the acrimonious tone in Washington--all while never bothering to admit that none of it was true, and while fueling the fire behind the scenes.

So apparently, this--along with the way they treated Jeffords and other moderate Republicans--is what they meant by "compassionate conservatism." I'd been wondering.

Shad


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: chip a
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 03:07 PM

Why is it that one report from N.P.R. has everyone here convinced that the many reports earlier were all wrong? Perhaps they were. Or maybe N.P.R. has it wrong. Can anyone produce the G.S.A. report?

Just a thought.:-)

A little right of center Chip A.


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 03:11 PM

Well, chip a, concerning the report that I was talking about, the fact that it was a fabrication was documented a long time ago. (Several years ago.) I don't know where you could look now to see this documentation. Maybe someone who is better at doing searches could point you in the right direction.


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 03:26 PM

Do you all mean to tell me that the American Media can't be trusted, that even our most respected news organizations aren't above sensationalistic half truths and distortions that suit the political leanings of the organization doing the reporting? Next you'll tell me there is no Easter Bunny.
On a more serious note; Anyone who believes the media here is liberal, probably believes it is revisionist history that Ronald Reagan's presidency was a failure that left us with a heap of dept, and broke the back of our labor unions.


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: dwditty
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 03:28 PM

That all depends on how you define the word "trash."


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: SDShad
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 03:30 PM

What on earth makes you think it's just NPR, Chip A? Just don't want to let go if it, even if it isn't true, huh?

Okay, then, try:

This article from the Kansas City Star.

Or, perhaps, this article from Salon.

Or, another, more in-depth article from Salon.

AP and Knight-Ridder have run stories on the GAO review. The New York Times and Washington Post--you know, those borderline-commie bastions of the Liberal Media Elite(tm)--which had been so enthusiastic to run stories about the "scandal" when it broke, aren't too interested in trumpeting the egg on their face, and aren't apparently reporting the truth of the matter very aggressively.

But give credit to Fox News. Granted, Fox is as biased in the conservative direction as the Times and Post are alleged to be in the liberal direction. But at least they had the cojones to fess up. Make sure you read all three pages of that last Salon article, where you'll find that Fox's Tony Snow unequivocally apologized for reporting the fake scandal, saying "OK, I'm sorry. The ex-president's pals have a legitimate beef."

Or maybe, just maybe, those liberal Klinton-boot-lickers at the hated NPR made the whole GAO report up. Yeah, that's probably what happened.

Shad


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 03:47 PM

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE! Or is it here?


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 04:38 PM

Ah well, the Kuwaiti incubator story comes to mind doesn't it? All those dead babies that never really happened. Oh, those vicious Iraquis!!! (sarcasm) Remember? That was the incident that got the public onside for Daddy Bush and the Gulf War, and helped Bush the Elder finally do away with the "wimp" factor.

You see, to the media, it's not whether something is true but whether it sounds true that really matters. Things that sound true get results, Bubba!

They are actually in the entertainment business, to put it kindly...or the propaganda business, to put it less kindly.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: chip a
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 04:39 PM

Shad,

Really, I was just responding to Kendall's post, in which only N.P.R. was mentioned. I wasn't too interested at the time of the alledged deed and I'm not too interested now. I certainly wasn't wanting to pick a fight.If you are, you'll need to go elsewhere. There are battles enough in my life already.

Chip A.


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: SDShad
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 04:43 PM

Not picking a fight, either, Chip. Just a little tired of the old "if it's on NPR, you shouldn't believe it" reaction ya so often get from a lot of conservatives, and my perception of that is what I was reacting to. Sorry to have misinterpreted.

Shad


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Peg
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 05:01 PM

$200 ain't that much for a haircut; anyone who goes to newbury Street in Boston and tries to get a haircut in a Salon may well pay that much or more, depending on what they get done...


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: chip a
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 05:10 PM

Newberry Street? I spent (wasted away) many moons on and around Newberry in the sixties. I once knew every inch of every alley and "every lock that ain't locked when no-one's around" there. Back Bay Boston. When all the unmarked cruisers had lisence plates beginning with 417! Well, that was in another life.

Thanks for the memories!

Chip A.


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 06:08 PM

I just spent the last couple of hours trying to track down the $200 haircut story. There are lots of references to the story, mostly put up by Clinton-haters or jokers. It was hard to find any facts.

I found a web site called Frankly Speaking (which, according to another site, belongs to Frank Mancuso) which contains the following chronology: (edited by me for clarity):

May 20, 1993 - "HairGATE" begins with allegation that $200 Clinton haircut by Beverly Hills hairstylist Cristophe at LAX on May 18 closed two of four runways for nearly an hour.
May 26 - Claim that haircut cost LA taxpayers $1,800.
May 27 - [Claim that] half of LA's air traffic shut down for haircut.
Jun 30 and Jul 1 - HairGATE debunked by FAA records.
Here's a transcript of the Press Briefing on May 20 by Dee Dee Myers.

Here's a transcript of the another Press Briefing on May 20, by George Stephanopoulos.

Here's a transcript of an interview in which Clinton answered some questions about the haircut.

Here's the transcript of a PBS Frontline interview with Dee Dee Myers about "A $200 Haircut at LAX"

Here's the transcript of a PBS program called The Power Game, hosted by Hedrick Smith and based on his book by the same name.


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 06:14 PM

TRUTH??? YOU WANT TRUTH???? haaaahhhaaa hhaaaaaahhhaaa(Scorch goes away cackling to herself.....)


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 06:21 PM

Several spiritual books I have read suggest that "the truth" is something we, as creative beings, are constantly in the process of making up or reinventing...like our social mores and moral concepts. Thus there are many truths, each one applicable and reasonable within its own frame of reference. There is an ultimate truth too, but it is not likely to be found in political debates.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:11 PM

Thanks for those, Jim Dixon.

I particularly enjoyed this bit...

REP. NEWT GINGRICH/HOUSE SPEAKER [ON TAPE]: It is perfectly American to be wrong. It is perfectly American to have bad judgment.

He really did have a way with words, didn't he?


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: kendall
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:27 PM

I am a hard core liberal, but, I value the truth way above any political loyalty. Has Mr. O'Rilley apologized? he was screeming FELONY at the time. Apparently, Dubbya sees no reason to apologize, after all, it was someone elses reputation, not his.

Who steals my purse steals trash
'Tis something? 'tis nothing, 'twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands,
But, he who filches from me my good name robs me of that
Which not enriches him, but leaves me poor indeed. Shakespere


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: wdyat12
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:33 PM

Truth is an abstract of perfection. The world is not perfect. Plato?

Things can seem better than they actually are. wdyat12


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:42 PM

Here's one: A few years ago a lot of people switched from throwing rice at weddings to throwing birdseed, because a story went around that birds would eat the rice and then the rice would swell up in their bellies and kill them. I'll bet that story was hokum, too. Anybody know for sure?


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: wdyat12
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:47 PM

Good thing it wasn't peanut butter.

wdyat12


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: MarkS
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:57 PM

I heard the birds exploded. My daughter is getting married at the end of this month and we will use soap bubbles instead of rice or birdseed in deference to neither killing nor attracting the birds.
Too bad! Exploding birds! That would be a sight to see!
MarkS


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 08:28 PM

I searched the Washington Post's archives for stories about the $200 haircut. Unfortunately, the Post charges for downloads of complete articles. All you can get free is the headline and first paragraph or so. Here's what I was able to find:
Joann Byrd
July 11, 1993; Page c6
Section: OP/ED
Word Count: 834

It was one paragraph in Style's Reliable Source column July 1: "The White House was positively gleeful yesterday about a Newsday report that there were actually no real delays at Los Angeles Airport when Bill Clinton got his now-famous haircut from Cristophe of Beverly Hills. The Long Island, N.Y., newspaper, citing records obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, said there were no circling planes and no traffic jams on runways. And that was it. The Post, it is true, had broken . . .

June 5, 1993; Page a19
Section: OP/ED
Word Count: 859

Your paper did a great favor to its readership in publishing the transcript of the Bloodworth-Thomason interview on "Good Morning America" {For the Record, May 27} in which the circumstances that resulted in President Clinton's finding himself in deep hairdo were finally clarified: (a) Cristophe just happened to be passing through the airport containing the president and Air Force One; (b) the president needed a haircut; and (c) the pieces came together in the most unfortunate accident since the . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 08:56 PM

Twenty bucks for Public Information??? What does this tell you?

RE: Exploding Birds--did you see the baseball video? The one where the pitcher actually hit a bird in flight? It was a WOW! The bird really did explode. And it really happened.

Peanut butter? What does peanut butter do to birds? Does this mean I can't feed my ducks peanut butter? (Ms. Know-Nothing about Birds)

Apologize???--When was the last time a pol apologized? When was the last time El Shrub apologized? Surely you don't really expect this.............

(cackling again...........from the (maybe?)Wicked Witch of the West)


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 10:04 PM

Woops! That message of mine above about birdseed vs. rice wasn't meant for this thread. It was supposed to go into the one called Darn!Another Absolute Certain Fact Wrong. Sorry. But I see you're having fun with it anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: marty D
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 10:42 PM

I still want to know what Clinton did with that cigar, and that's the truth. Oh never mind, it might turn me into a Republican.

marty


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Subject: RE: BS: THE TRUTH
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jun 01 - 08:48 AM

I heard he was more concerned with where it came from than where it went.


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Mudcat time: 23 April 1:22 AM EDT

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