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Singing National Anthems at sports event

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GUEST,Albamist 10 May 01 - 03:08 PM
mousethief 10 May 01 - 04:08 PM
GUEST 10 May 01 - 04:11 PM
mousethief 10 May 01 - 04:13 PM
The Walrus 10 May 01 - 04:27 PM
GUEST,emily b 10 May 01 - 07:08 PM
Snuffy 10 May 01 - 07:12 PM
kendall 10 May 01 - 07:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 10 May 01 - 07:55 PM
John Hindsill 10 May 01 - 08:11 PM
GUEST 10 May 01 - 11:16 PM
Joe Offer 10 May 01 - 11:37 PM
GUEST,geordie 10 May 01 - 11:59 PM
DougR 11 May 01 - 12:12 AM
Robby 11 May 01 - 10:40 AM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 11 May 01 - 10:51 AM
Matt_R 11 May 01 - 11:08 AM
GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com 11 May 01 - 02:37 PM
catspaw49 11 May 01 - 03:33 PM
Snuffy 11 May 01 - 04:04 PM
mousethief 11 May 01 - 04:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 May 01 - 05:06 PM
M.Ted 11 May 01 - 05:42 PM
JulieF 11 May 01 - 05:52 PM
mousethief 11 May 01 - 06:02 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 May 01 - 09:06 PM
M.Ted 12 May 01 - 01:41 AM
GUEST 15 May 01 - 12:28 PM
Kim C 15 May 01 - 12:34 PM
GUEST,Chris 16 May 01 - 03:16 AM
Grab 16 May 01 - 11:49 AM
Lyndi-loo 16 May 01 - 11:53 AM
Edmund 16 May 01 - 12:12 PM
Kim C 16 May 01 - 01:13 PM
Matt_R 16 May 01 - 01:24 PM
mousethief 16 May 01 - 01:29 PM
Jim the Bart 16 May 01 - 01:32 PM
GUEST,Albamist 16 May 01 - 03:18 PM
GUEST,Albamist 16 May 01 - 03:44 PM
Kim C 16 May 01 - 04:33 PM
Lyndi-loo 17 May 01 - 04:41 AM
Gervase 17 May 01 - 06:57 AM
Wolfgang 17 May 01 - 07:26 AM
GUEST,Rana 17 May 01 - 08:13 AM
Kim C 17 May 01 - 11:38 AM
mousethief 17 May 01 - 11:41 AM
GUEST,Rana 17 May 01 - 10:39 PM
mousethief 18 May 01 - 11:02 AM
Kim C 18 May 01 - 11:06 AM
mousethief 18 May 01 - 11:10 AM
InOBU 18 May 01 - 11:11 AM
Ebbie 19 May 01 - 02:02 AM
catspaw49 27 May 01 - 11:51 AM
Banjer 27 May 01 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,leila 27 May 01 - 01:49 PM
catspaw49 27 May 01 - 02:17 PM
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Subject: Singing National Anthems at sports events
From: GUEST,Albamist
Date: 10 May 01 - 03:08 PM

Little Hawks response in the thread "What Songs Make you Laugh Out Loud" was the singing of the US anthem at hockey games, when both teams are full of Canadians, Swedes and Russians (and a smattering of Finns and Czechs) and of course the occasional American thrown in for good measure. As a Scot now living in Canada, this and other examples, where anthems are sung at events that have no national significance has always struck me as odd. It reminds me of when I lived in Zambia and would go to see a movie, a bell would ring just before the national anthem was played, and at that point you had to stop everything and stand perfectly still even if you were in the parking lot. (the bell would also ring outside) failure to do so could result in arrest for showing disrespect to the anthem. How did this practice originate,does it only happen in "New" countries, is it a sign of some kind of national insecurity? Opinions please Albamist


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: mousethief
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:08 PM

I think they used to play the national anthem a lot more than they do nowadays. I think the baseball or hockey game thing is a holdover from when they would play it for many other public events as well.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:11 PM

The English never get to sing the national anthem at sporting events as we don't have one. Which is a shame.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: mousethief
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:13 PM

Is England a nation? Or is that a topic for a different thread?

Alex


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: The Walrus
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:27 PM

Mousethief,

Of course England is a nation, otherwise the rest of the world would have no one to blame all their historical problems on .

Walrus


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,emily b
Date: 10 May 01 - 07:08 PM

I think they still use the National Anthem in the states, at least here in Texas as a way to haul out any dignitary or newscaster that thinks he/she can sing. What an audience these people have. Who else can say they've sung to 40,000 people?

I heard an amazing rendition of the Star Spangled Banner by one such singer. He started in a key that was just too high and the song stretches the top range. About 3 lines into it, he smoothly switched keys. I'm not sure if he knew what he was doing or not. I doubt that most people even noticed and his high notes came out just fine.

As to a real answer, I don't know and until this moment it never occurred to me to wonder why. Hmm! Now you've got me thinking.

Emily


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 May 01 - 07:12 PM

We English don't need a national anthem. We're not insecure - we know who we are. Loudly proclaiming who you are and what you stand for is for all those other "lesser breeds without the law" who wish they were as good as us. If they say it loud enough and often enough, one day they'll maybe even believe it. Look at our postage stamps, for instance. ***BG***

Wassail! V


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: kendall
Date: 10 May 01 - 07:30 PM

I see the singing of a national anthem as another display of nationalism. I am opposed to nationalism. It starts wars.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 01 - 07:55 PM

"We know who we are" - I'm not too sure that's actually true of the English. Does the first "we" mean the same as the second "we" in that sentence?

The idea of having some solo singer do a national anthem just strikes me as absurd and undignified. Have a band play the tune, and if the players and the crowd know it, they can sing along. Or not.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: John Hindsill
Date: 10 May 01 - 08:11 PM

If they didn't sing the National Anthem at sporting events, how would they know when to PLAY BALL!!!? - ;>)


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 01 - 11:16 PM

They wouldn't. Not a bad idea!


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 May 01 - 11:37 PM

I've always felt a bit uneasy about the national anthem sung at events - I always feel like I'm being hoodwinked into a tacit support of militarism. What's worse is when they want me to sing the anthem because I'm known as "that guy that sings stuff" - sometimes I take advantage of the situation and sing "America the Beautiful," which I like much better.
Who are these people who require us to sing the national anthem, anyhow? Sounds a lot like propaganda to me...
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,geordie
Date: 10 May 01 - 11:59 PM

Nationalism dosen't start wars..stupidy does and greed allows them to continue.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: DougR
Date: 11 May 01 - 12:12 AM

Oh Jeeze. What a scintillating topic. DougR


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Robby
Date: 11 May 01 - 10:40 AM

Albamist,
If you are really interested in how the singing of the US National Anthem at sporting events got started, the answer pertains to WWI and baseball. According, to Ken Burns' PBS documentary on baseball, it was at a baseball game in Chicago, during WWI, that a band played The Star Spangled Banner during the seventh inning stretch, for a show of patriotism and support of the boys in France. According to the documentary, this had such an affect on the fans in attendance, that the Anthem began to be played at every baseball game. Now it's pretty much traditional in all sports.
BTW, the playing/singing of the Anthem is not required at any sporting event. In fact, during the Philadelphia Flyers Stanley Cup victories, their home games began with the playing/singing of God Bless America, by the late Kate Smith.
Robby


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 11 May 01 - 10:51 AM

When it used to be played in UK cinemas the first note would lead to a stampede for the exits!
Most live theatres used to play it before the play to avoid that and everyone would try to stand up in the cramped rows, dropping coats and programmes that you'd just got sorted out and when you sat down again you had to fight for the armrests all over again.
RtS


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Matt_R
Date: 11 May 01 - 11:08 AM

England has no national anthem? What about:

It's coming home, it's coming home
It's coming, football's coming home
It's coming home, it's coming home
It's coming, football's coming home

Everyone seems to know the score
They've seen it all before
They just know
They're so sure
That England's going to throw it away
Going to blow it away
But I know they can play
Cos I remember

Three Lions on a shirt
Jules Rimet still gleaming
Thirty years of hurt
Never stopped me dreaming

So many jokes, so many sneers
But all those oh-so-nears
Wear you down
Through the years
But I still see that tackle by Moore
And when Lineker scored
Bobby belting the ball
And Nobby dancing

Three Lions on a shirt
Jules Rimet still gleaming
Thirty years of hurt
Never stopped me dreaming

I know that was then
But it could be again...

It's coming home, it's coming home
It's coming, football's coming home
It's coming home, it's coming home
It's coming, football's coming home

Three Lions on a shirt
Jules Rimet still gleaming
Thirty years of hurt
Never stopped me dreaming


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com
Date: 11 May 01 - 02:37 PM

I would even go to a sporting event, and I am just not a sports fan, to hear the Welsh sing their anthem.

mg


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 May 01 - 03:33 PM

Like John, I always thought the last two words of the SSB were "PLAY BALL."

I think the whole thing is dumb.......Ken Burns is correct in the origin of the 7th inning stretch, but why they started playing it before EVERY damned sporting event is beyond me.

On the plus side, it is good for laughs. Roseanne's shennanigans not withstanding, a lot of the singers are awful and it's really a riot when some actually forget the words.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 May 01 - 04:04 PM

I would have thought Swing Low was nearer a NATIONAL anthem than Three Lions


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: mousethief
Date: 11 May 01 - 04:36 PM

Funny, when the national anthem is played (or sung) at the baseball game, I never think of militarism or nationalism. I think of the people singing, and how their voices sound, and of veterans who have risked their lives so I can lounge around and go to baseball games instead of being dictated to by goons in jack-boots, and about the cub scouts (or whoever) holding the flags and whether or not they got into the ballgame free or had to buy tickets too. Also I remember the time that the SSB was sung by the Kingsmen, and it sounded absolutely horrible.

But I never want to go out and take over 3rd world nations or denigrate people from other countries. Maybe what you see depends a lot on where you've been and not just where you are.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 01 - 05:06 PM

I many national anthems are tremendous stuff. We shouldn't be too po-faced about this kind of thing. People don't fight wars because of national anthems - if all the national anthems were junked we wouldn't gain a thing, and we'd lose a lot of enjoyment.

During the Football World Cup (real football that is) the ant hens were the best part of some games. The Italians versus the Romanians was the best combination I reckon. Especially the Romanian, which I think was worth a goal up.Check them, and others at this site which gives the national anthems of pretty well all the countries in the planet, with midis, words in English and whatever language they speak in the countries concerned, and national flags.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 May 01 - 05:42 PM

I must say that I always enjoy hearing the anthems played when you see television coverage of "official state visits"--Apparently, at least here in the US, when you travel on the "Official State Visit" it means that you get your national Anthem, plus a dinner at the White House on the good china--Anyway, I have always loved the Russian Anthem--also loved the way that it it woven into the Pet Shop Boys cover of the Village People song, "Go West"--


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: JulieF
Date: 11 May 01 - 05:52 PM

I have no problems with National anthems being played when there are two different countries involved. ( that's including England and Scotland etc) but why do you need to play it when you are not playing at National Level ?

Julie


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: mousethief
Date: 11 May 01 - 06:02 PM

JulieF,

Tradition!

Alex


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 01 - 09:06 PM

Could it sometimes be a reflection of the tendency in America to refer to domestic national championships as "The World Series"?


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 May 01 - 01:41 AM

Interestingly, though many of the Americans in the group know this, McG, perhaps you will not--when the first baseball team ever established(in Hoboken,NJ) played its first game,which was the first official baseball game, ever it apparently lost--


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 01 - 12:28 PM

Dear M of Harlow;

The world series has twice been won the last decade by a team from outside of the US,,,,,,,Toronto


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Kim C
Date: 15 May 01 - 12:34 PM

what about God Save the Queen?

I don't really have an opinion on this. But I did happen to catch Billy Ray Cyrus sing the national anthem on TV just before a NASCAR race, and I have to admit, it was really, really good. It's a hard song to sing and few people can pull it off with much finesse.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 16 May 01 - 03:16 AM

Kim C 'Well may you sing,"God Save the Queen" but will you ever sing "God Save the King"?


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Grab
Date: 16 May 01 - 11:49 AM

Chris, we certainly will when Elizabeth dies and Charles (or William) takes over as King.

As Joe says about the US national anthem, "God save the queen/king" may be the national anthem, but "Swing low sweet chariot" is a much better song. IIRC it started as the "unofficial anthem" for English rugby fans (rugby songs coming from a higher evolutionary level than football chants of "the referee's a wanker" and "you're crap and you know you are" ;-) but it seems to have spread into football too. (Football as in soccer, BTW)

Graham.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Lyndi-loo
Date: 16 May 01 - 11:53 AM

God save the queen is a British national anthem and not an English one. The Welsh and the Irish have their own and the Scots have adopted "Flower of Scotland as theirs" I really don't think the English have one


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Edmund
Date: 16 May 01 - 12:12 PM

I have never believed that the National Anthem is sung at sporting events and the like to honor our nation. I believe it is part of the promotional package employed by the promoters of the event to clothe their event with a status beyond its real significance. I think it cheapens the Anthem to be so exploited.

Yes, and it drives me wild to see auto dealers display the largest flag they can buy in a cynical gesture at patriotism.
..........Edmund


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Kim C
Date: 16 May 01 - 01:13 PM

I don't sing either one because I'm not British. So now will someone please explain the difference between British and English? If you're British, aren't you English? I never considered the Welsh, Scots, or Irish to be English because they haven't always spoken English. But I don't know.

Not trying to stir any controversy, just an ignorant unfrozen caveman who needs to be enlightened.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 May 01 - 01:24 PM

Britain is(was) an Empire, England is a country.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: mousethief
Date: 16 May 01 - 01:29 PM

The United Kingdom is a country. England is an idea.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 16 May 01 - 01:32 PM

Singing an anthem prior to a sporting event is a statement about community and should be a civilizing activity. It should serve as a statement that, although we are adversaries on the field, we hold certain things in common. It should be a statement that says we will abide by the rules and respect the outcome, regardless of how it falls.

It is a terrible shame that the SSB is seen as a statement of nationalism in its most negative sense - self-congratulatory, ethno-centric, avericious, etc. Nationalism should not have to be equated with militarism. We should be able to acknowledge and celebrate what we have in common without demeaning or diminishing those who are not us.

Unfortunately, for a relatively young country we have a lot of history to live down. Fortunately, most of us are not afraid to see our failures cited in the same history books with our great achievements.

"Oh say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?" - It is a hard song to sing; it's even harder to live up to.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,Albamist
Date: 16 May 01 - 03:18 PM

Robby has stated that according to Ken Burns PBS documentary, the US anthem was played during the seventh inning "stretch" (for non baseball types; this is a point in the game where the game is stopped for a time to give the fans, who may have been sitting for hours, an opportunity to get up and stretch their legs. It also provides an opportunity for the employees of the home team to remove any corpses left sitting in the seats, you know those fans that died of boredom in the previous six innings) I have nothing against anthems and have no problem with them being played at sporting events of an INTERnational nature. It just seems innapropriate to play them at other times. Albamist


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,Albamist
Date: 16 May 01 - 03:44 PM

Kim C People who hold "British" passports are in fact citizens of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. They may have been born in Scotland, Wales,England or Northern Ireland (Ulster) these being the countries and province that constitute the geographic entity known as The British Isles. The United Kingdom name originates from when the lineage to the English crown had expired, the English parliament proposed to king James V1 of Scotland that the two kingdoms be joined, James jumped at the chance and became the James I of the new enlarged country, at which point Scotlands growth as a nation went into decline. There is a line in the third or fourth verse of God save the Queen which refers to crushing rebellious Scots (needless to say this line is seldom if ever sang these days) but it has never made the song popular with any nationalistic Scots. I bet there is no other national anthem worldwide that refers to crushing one part of its nation, this should be a seperate thread Albamist


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Kim C
Date: 16 May 01 - 04:33 PM

Thanks Albamist. That sort of makes sense... I may have to digest it a little longer.

I don't know about national anthems, but there was a little fuss recently about "Maryland My Maryland" and the line about "the despot's heel is on thy shore."


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Lyndi-loo
Date: 17 May 01 - 04:41 AM

Yes, you could say that James VI of Scotland inherited the English throne because his grandmother (greatgradmother?) was Henry VIII's sister. This was the union of the crowns. The union of the parliaments did not occur until 1707 and Ireland joined the United Kingdom in 1800. Wales had signed the treaties of union with England way back in 1528 and 1532 and adopted the English legal system which Scotland and Ireland never did. So English and British ARe NOT the same thing although it's a common mistake made by non-brits. Also a common mistake made by English sports commentators which really pisses the non-English Brits off. If you were to ask a Scot, and Irishperson and a Welshperson what their nationalality was chances are they would say Scots, Irish or Welsh in preference to British. the English would tend to say British rather than English although that is changing since there appears to be a new English nationalism emerging as a result of the new Scottish parliament and Welsh assembly. Sorry to ramble on a bit, but it's a very quiet morning at work!


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Gervase
Date: 17 May 01 - 06:57 AM

Before we Brits knock the Yanks for the World Series, what other country gets to enter four teams for the World Cup qualifiers?
And why is it that every Scot I know supports two teams - Scotland and whoever's playing England?! And, off-topic entirely, why is there no football equivalent of the British Lions, with players from each of the home nations?
In fact, you don't have to tell me the answer to that last one - it probably comes down to money and the reluctance of the major teams to let their players off to play for other outfits.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 May 01 - 07:26 AM

what other country gets to enter four teams for the World Cup qualifiers?

Yugoslavia

Wolfgang (not quite serious)


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 17 May 01 - 08:13 AM

Like RtS, I remember them playing the anthem at the end of movies. People would try and leave before the credits. It seemed funny to me that if they weren't fast enough they would stop and stand once it started. Traditions! That and the lady selling icecream between the B-movie and the main one.

Rana (who suddenly has an urge for a choc-ice)


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Kim C
Date: 17 May 01 - 11:38 AM

Okay. I get it now. :-)

By the way, I heard an interview on the radio this morning with Bill Mumy, who as a child played Will Robinson on Lost in Space. He also apparently has a pretty good music thing going on in California. Anyway he said he was going to sing the national anthem at an Angels game.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: mousethief
Date: 17 May 01 - 11:41 AM

Too bad he couldn't find a gig at a baseball game, instead.

Alex (running, ducking and grinning)


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 17 May 01 - 10:39 PM

Going back to an earlier comment - McGrath, to be fair, I believe the World Series in baseball was named after a newspaper - American baseball fans can correct me if wrong.

Rana


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: mousethief
Date: 18 May 01 - 11:02 AM

Actually (unfortunately) "World Series" is quite accurate. Name me any team in any other country that could beat the winner of MLB's championship. Ain't none; all their best players have moved to the US & are playing for MLB teams.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Kim C
Date: 18 May 01 - 11:06 AM

Cuba?


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: mousethief
Date: 18 May 01 - 11:10 AM

Okay, so there are countries with closed borders whose baseball players aren't ALLOWED to go to the United States. I know that the Cuban national team played against the Bosox this spring or last fall (time between baseball seasons doesn't really exist) -- who won? I don't remember hearing.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: InOBU
Date: 18 May 01 - 11:11 AM

With the few US hockey palyers on US hockey teams, how bout playing the International at Hockey games! If they did... I'D GO! Larry


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 May 01 - 02:02 AM

I remember a time not too many years ago when the national anthem was played on each television channel as it went off the air overnight. How times have changed. Infomercials and dying shows are plugged into slow spots now but TV never goes off the air. I recently saw a children's show- not Sesame Street, but another well known one- come on at 2:30 AM!

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 May 01 - 11:51 AM

Well........................

Anyone who missed Steven Tyler's "version" of the SSB at the Indy 500 really missed out. Beginning with harmonica intro, it took about 3 minutes and a lot of pained screaming to get to the last line which seems to now be, "The land of the free, and the home of the Indianapolis 500" (that's what he sang).

AS the camera's panned around the crowd, the look on AJ Foyt's face was worth the price of admission!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Banjer
Date: 27 May 01 - 01:23 PM

I didn't miss out, unfortunately. That was by far the most DISGUSTING rendition of our National Anthem since the time that Roseanne bitch tore it up at the World Series opener. My sentiments have already been e-mailed to the officials at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Interpreting music is one thing, bashing our National Anthem is not acceptable at all in my book. Especialy not on a Memorial Day weekend. What were they thinking??


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,leila
Date: 27 May 01 - 01:49 PM

I may be in a bit of a minority here, but I like my national anthems. The Canadian anthem is in fact a hymn in which I hear myself thanking God for the freedom I enjoy. The American anthem is also very hymn like though less obviously so. Showing joy at the freedom I enjoy. I don't think nationalism starts wars: fools start wars for a great many reasons that have nothing to do with love of home. These same fools may spout off about love of their home or gods or family as being behind their actions, but I assure you, the fools who start wars are the ones who are farthest from love.

I didn't know that England didn't have a national anthem, somehow I always thought that God save the Queen/King was the anthem. I guess that only shows my ignorance though.

I think it must be really sad to not love your country, whether the country of your birth or home, enough to want to sing about it.

As for why both are sung at NHL games no matter who is playing, I believe it is out of respect for the two countries that formed the league, and are the homes of all of the teams and the bulk of the teams' supporters.

These are my humble opinions, offered in friendship.

Cheers, Leila


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 May 01 - 02:17 PM

Banj, I fear that what they were "thinking" was money once again. The tradition at Indy has always been pretty strong towards presenting an opening ceremony that shows respect for the day this race has always been run on. Typically today, they used an opening prayer, a military reading including "Taps" and a "Missing Man" flyover. The aberration was in the anthem and it can only be described as you have, lacking in any semblance of respect. Tyler and Aerosmith picked up sponsorship of a car for the race and I have to wonder which came first, the chicken or the egg. Did the $$$ have anything to do with it?

The Hulman family including Tony George have always shown traditional midwest values and I would hope that they might make a statement on this. Obviously you can't control what someone does live and I can't believe they knew this was going to happen, but given the reputation of the people involved.............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Haruo
Date: 27 May 01 - 02:30 PM

I think the English should use the first verse of "When England Really Ruled the Waves" even though it's actually a House of Lords Anthem.

"God save the Queen" is sung, for any who may not be familiar with it, to the tune of the Liechtenstein National Anthem.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Banjer
Date: 27 May 01 - 03:46 PM

Maybe in the future they could audition the singer before the actual performance, or even run some sort of 'tape delay' to be able to cut it out of the program if individual does turn out to be an asshole. At least that way only the live audience would be subject to it and the embarassment would be kept from worldwide viewing.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: DougR
Date: 27 May 01 - 04:00 PM

Banjer, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I would imagine the officials had no idea ...

My reply to the question, though, is why not? I think the national anthem should be played or sung whenever anyone wants to, and wherever they want to. I've heard an awful lot of people maul it at lots of different kinds of events though. If they are going to do it, I wish they would just do it the way it is written.

I also wish it would be changed to "American the Beautiful."

DougR


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Banjer
Date: 27 May 01 - 04:48 PM

Doug, please don't misunderstand, I am not advocating NOT singing the anthem whenever appropiate, or whenever someone feels the need to sing it. I am all for that, but like you, I feel it should be done with the respect due it. The Star Spangled Banner is our nation's 'musical signature' as the anthems of other nations are theirs. What conclusion can peoples of another nation draw after hearing what we heard today at Indianapolis? If I heard a similar 'thrashing' of a foreign anthem it would lead me to believe that the peoples of that nation accepted that version as being OK by allowing it to be performed. My opinion of them would naturally drop a notch or two. I am afraid that is the result of todays bizzare performance.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: DougR
Date: 27 May 01 - 05:21 PM

I believe I didn't make myself clear, Banjer and I apologize for that. I was directing that remark to the subject of the thread, not to anything you said.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Banjer
Date: 27 May 01 - 05:36 PM

Just sitting here watching the beginning of the Coca Cola 600. They had members of a Field Artillery unit doing Amazing Grace acapella, a twenty one gun salute followed by Taps. This was followed be Tracy Byrd singing the Star Spangled Banner, followed by the missing man formation flown by four F16's. A very nice and uplifting ceremony compared to what was seen earlier today.


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 May 01 - 05:40 PM

I just saw it too.........What a difference a few hundred miles can make.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,betty
Date: 09 Mar 06 - 06:06 AM

the english just sing god save the queen so they do have one


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,12stringstan
Date: 09 Mar 06 - 01:56 PM

a funny note here. I remember as mentioned, in a byegone day, when in Northern Ireland, at the end of the movie in the "picture house" God save the queen would start. It was the quickest and most effecient way of separating loyalist from republican, because the wearers of the green would be up, amd gone, while those loyal to the crown would stand in honour!

Nowadays, we have an all Ireland rugby team, and neither anthem is sung, but a new one altogether. sheesh Where will it all end up.

must also mention the GAA (Gaelic Athletic Association) has now opened up it's sacred GAA stadium, Croke Park for the use of soccer & rugby. The first foreign anthem ever to be performed on this "hallowed ground" will be God Save The Queen!

Indeed times move on!
12sS


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Mar 06 - 03:52 PM

Whereas in England of course, everybody scrambled for the door when the tune came on.

But surely there's always been an all-Ireland Rugby team? (Except that they used to all be West Britons, whichever side of the border they came from.)


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Shields Folk
Date: 09 Mar 06 - 04:59 PM

"The United Kingdom is a country. England is an idea."

with respect, bollocks!


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: GUEST,Red
Date: 09 Mar 06 - 05:07 PM

Does Star Spengled Banner not seem to have an extra note in it?
(Ist beat of the bar in Capitols for emphasis.....)

oh Say can you See   by the Dawn's early Light
what so Proudly we Hail at the (this is where I don't get it)
Twilight's last Gleaming?
Isn't the 'ing' of gleaming on beat two (I assume it is in 3/4 time?)
Wouldn't a one syllable note be better than 'gleaming'?


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Mar 06 - 05:20 PM

So dos it mean that when
Britain was an empire it was ruled by an Emperor
when it was a kingdom it was ruled by a King
& now that it's a country it's ruled by a ,,,,,,,,

Barry


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Stewart
Date: 09 Mar 06 - 07:43 PM

In the late 60s I sang with the Dallas Civic Chorus. We always sang the opening national anthem at the Dallas Cowboys games. They were then in the old Cotton Bowl at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. Since the acoustics for singing in a stadium are so bad, we lip-synced it to a recording of our singing. For this we got free seats at the game. Sometimes a non-singing friend would come along to get a free seat - they just had to move their lips at the right time. Once our director had to quickly jump up on the podium as the tape was queued a bit too early. It always amused me when a friend would tell me the next day, how good we sounded.

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: cyder_drinker
Date: 10 Mar 06 - 06:55 PM

At most sporting events I can be bothered to watch (not many!) when our National Dirge (sorry, "anthem") 'God Save the Queen' is sung, the English team mostle seem to hum the tune, and look vaguely embarrassed at not being able to remember the words.
Jeez, but it's the most boring tune ever (apologies to any Lichtensteiners on the board!).
Why we can't have something rousing or stirring, like "Jerusalem"?
I'd even prefer "The Court of King Caractacus" - at least I can remember the words!

;-)


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 10 Mar 06 - 09:09 PM

"Flower of Scotland" has certain historic relevance when we are playing the English, but can't really see how it links to the Irish, Welsh, French, or Italian opposition! Have to say I enjoy the Italian anthem: sounds like half a Verdi opera! And I don't dislike the one written to supposedly satisfy both North and south in Ireland.
TB


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Mar 06 - 10:03 PM

No, Guest Red, it's TWI-light's last GLEA-ming. "Glea"( not "ming") is on beat 2.

My favorite rendition of the Star Spangled Banner by far-- (as distinguished from the original English drinking song "To Anacreon In Heaven", which is close to the ultimate in purple prose, or rather, poetry)--is Leslie Nielson's rendering of it, as in rendering meat , in Naked Gun. I always find absolutely wretched singing hilarious, especially when the song is meant to be taken seriously. It's too bad that sometimes it's not socially acceptable to laugh, lest you hurt the feelings of the singer, for instance. It's even better when the singer is convinced he or she is wonderful--as in the first rounds of Amercan Idol, when you may even get the bonus that the singer argues with the judges, to the effect "Who are you to keep my talent from the world?"


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Subject: RE: Singing National Anthems at sports event
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Mar 06 - 11:15 PM

Or if you're thinking in 3, both TWI-light and GLEA-ming would be beat 1.


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