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Veteran's Day (songs for)

11 Nov 97 - 07:35 PM
Gene 11 Nov 97 - 08:01 PM
Gene 11 Nov 97 - 10:46 PM
dwditty 11 Nov 97 - 10:54 PM
leprechaun 11 Nov 97 - 11:15 PM
Jon W. 12 Nov 97 - 10:38 AM
dick greenhaus 12 Nov 97 - 10:44 AM
Pauline Lerner 12 Nov 97 - 11:22 PM
S.P. Buck Mulligan 13 Nov 97 - 12:08 PM
13 Nov 97 - 06:32 PM
Wolfgang Hell 14 Nov 97 - 05:16 AM
S.P. Buck Mulligan 14 Nov 97 - 08:08 AM
Klinenboop 14 Nov 97 - 08:29 AM
Bert 14 Nov 97 - 10:49 AM
JMike 14 Nov 97 - 10:22 PM
leprechaun 15 Nov 97 - 09:29 PM
Barry 15 Nov 97 - 09:40 PM
Wolfgang 17 Nov 97 - 10:22 AM
Genie 20 Sep 01 - 07:01 AM
Genie 08 Nov 02 - 11:26 AM
Amos 08 Nov 02 - 11:30 AM
Troll 08 Nov 02 - 12:04 PM
mg 08 Nov 02 - 12:05 PM
Francy 08 Nov 02 - 12:08 PM
Midchuck 08 Nov 02 - 12:18 PM
Hrothgar 08 Nov 02 - 10:16 PM
bbc 09 Nov 02 - 08:28 AM
artbrooks 09 Nov 02 - 09:45 AM
chip a 09 Nov 02 - 12:09 PM
mg 09 Nov 02 - 08:59 PM
Banjer 09 Nov 02 - 11:01 PM
Big Mick 09 Nov 02 - 11:24 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 09 Nov 02 - 11:45 PM
mg 09 Nov 02 - 11:58 PM
mg 10 Nov 02 - 12:16 AM
mg 10 Nov 02 - 12:25 AM
Big Mick 10 Nov 02 - 12:35 AM
Tinker 10 Nov 02 - 01:54 AM
The Pooka 10 Nov 02 - 10:06 AM
Banjer 10 Nov 02 - 10:33 AM
Greg F. 10 Nov 02 - 10:40 AM
Schantieman 10 Nov 02 - 10:43 AM
GUEST 10 Nov 02 - 10:55 AM
GUEST 10 Nov 02 - 11:04 AM
CET 10 Nov 02 - 12:29 PM
artbrooks 10 Nov 02 - 12:37 PM
mg 10 Nov 02 - 12:54 PM
GUEST 10 Nov 02 - 01:00 PM
GUEST 10 Nov 02 - 01:19 PM
GUEST 10 Nov 02 - 01:48 PM
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Subject: Veteran's Day
From:
Date: 11 Nov 97 - 07:35 PM

Hey, today is Veteran's Day in the US. Does anyone have a song in celebration of the dogface, leatherneck, flyboy or (what were sailors called)?


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Gene
Date: 11 Nov 97 - 08:01 PM

How 'bout: Comin' in on a wing and a prayer/There's a White Cross tonight on Okinawa/When the Yanks rasied the Stars and Stripes on Iwo Jima Isle/Soldier's Last Letter/ Let's Go Marine!/The Ballad of Ira Hayes/RTE. 1 Box 144/ There'll be bluebirds over the white cliffs of Dover/ When the lights come on again all over the world/Rosie, The Riveter/Buy Bonds/eWe did it before and we can do it again/etc....


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Gene
Date: 11 Nov 97 - 10:46 PM

AND: There's a Star-Spangled Banner waving somewhere/Seaman's Blues/The Ballad of Rodger Young/Rainbow at Midnight/ Silver Dew on the BLuegrass tonight/Remember Pearl Harbor/ The sinking of the Reuben James/and of course the standard Anchors Aweigh/When the cassions go rolling along/ You're in the army now/Waves in Blue/Roll, Tanks, roll/ Stars and Stripes forever/The Marines Hymn/The U. S. AirForce Song/Just to name a few.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: dwditty
Date: 11 Nov 97 - 10:54 PM

Don't forget all the marching songs...

GI beans and GI gravy
Gee, I wish I joined the navy

Not to mention the uncountable verses about "Jody" taking care of your business back on the block.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: leprechaun
Date: 11 Nov 97 - 11:15 PM

Don't sit under the apple tree with anyone else but me/Over There!/Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy/ My dad used to sing one that went..."Oh she really really loved me till the All Clear came."


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Jon W.
Date: 12 Nov 97 - 10:38 AM

Most songs mentioned so far have been the commercial, well known and popular songs, usually from WWII (a very popular war, everyone got in on it). I'll bet there are plenty of songs made up by the troops in Vietnam which haven't seen the light of day - usually all we hear from that era are "The Ballad of the Green Berets" on the one hand and "The Fish Cheer" on the other. How about it, you Vietnam Vets? Can you give us something? And let's not forget Korea, too.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Nov 97 - 10:44 AM

To pummel a point, you can find some songs from the Vietnam war by searching Digitrad for @Vietnam. Similarly for @Korea, @WWI and @WWII.

As I recall, it used to be Armistice day, so appropriate songs would probably be from WWI. Lest we forget.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Pauline Lerner
Date: 12 Nov 97 - 11:22 PM

An appropriate veteran's song from WWI is the one about William MacBride (I can't remember the title), and another is Christmas in the Trenches, which is more commonly associated with Christmas than with Veteran's Day.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: S.P. Buck Mulligan
Date: 13 Nov 97 - 12:08 PM

I wasn't going to post these, for reasons I haven't quite figured out, but since someone mentioned Willie McBride, the song is "No Man's Land" by Eric Bogle. That and his "And the Band Played (Waltzing Matilda)" are the best Veteran's songs in the English language, as far as I'm concerned.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From:
Date: 13 Nov 97 - 06:32 PM

Up here we call it Remembrance Day, although fewer and fewer seem to be remembering it because some of the shops are refusing to let the old vets sell their poppies on the premises. But, what is to be expected in a city where less than 40% show up to vote in municipal elections?

BTW, I don't know about the US, but sailors were generally called Tars.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 14 Nov 97 - 05:16 AM

speaking about Bogle's beautiful and sad WWI songs, he wrote another less known song along the same lines: "For king and for country". It doesn't seem to be in the DT-database. I think I have the lyrics at home. If so, you'll see them here on Monday.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: S.P. Buck Mulligan
Date: 14 Nov 97 - 08:08 AM

Does anyone remember the song that played over the ending of "Breaker Morant" (one of the best movies ever made, I think) - it was a chipper marching tune of the Empire days, the refrain went "We're soldiers of the Queen..." The juxtaposition of that tune & sentiment over the aftermath of the execution was brilliant.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Klinenboop
Date: 14 Nov 97 - 08:29 AM

& from US Cavalry days: Regular army Oh & Fiddlers Green


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Bert
Date: 14 Nov 97 - 10:49 AM

We're soldiers of the Queen my lads
we've been, my lads and seen, mylads
We'll fight for Englands glory lads
and we'll proudly show you what it means
and when they say our war is won
and when they ask you how it's done
we'll proudly point to every one
of England's soldiers of the Queen.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: JMike
Date: 14 Nov 97 - 10:22 PM

Don't have the reference with me, but on the "Bestiary" CD of Flanders and Swann (see the Hippopotamus Song thread) there is a song called "The War of 14-18" which compares WWI to other wars before (and since), always to the detriment of the others. The song is listd as a translation of a French song which I have not heard. (Nor can I remember off hand the name of the composer.)


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: leprechaun
Date: 15 Nov 97 - 09:29 PM

Snoopy and the Red Baron?


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Barry
Date: 15 Nov 97 - 09:40 PM

In the DT see a shorter version of Will You Go To Flanders. Barry


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Subject: Lyr Add: FOR KING AND COUNTRY (Eric Bogle)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Nov 97 - 10:22 AM

FOR KING AND COUNTRY
(E. Bogle)

1. For King and for Country
we fought and we died
in the first flush of dawn,
by the fields of the Somme.

2. First to die was our captain
he was shot through the lung:
he lay in the mud
and he choked in his blood.

3. And ten minutes later
on these green fields of France
the grass had turned red
and thousands were dead.

4. And all through that morning
the slaughter went on:
we screamed and we cried
and cursed God as we died.

5. And when it was over
and the killing was done:
A generation had gone,
a generation had gone.

from Eric Bogle's LP "Down under" (a German release). Here are his notes to this song:
"The first song I ever wrote upon the subject that fascinates me most, the first World War. A simple little tune with a simple little message.

Wolfgang


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Subject: Lyr Add: HELLO, CENTRAL! GIVE ME NO MAN'S LAND
From: Genie
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 07:01 AM

I found this in a 1997 thread where someone was seeking the original words to "Hello, Central," and I thought people looking for Veterans' Day songs might miss it there.

HELLO, CENTRAL! GIVE ME NO MAN'S LAND
Words, Sam M. Lewis & Joe Young; music, Jean Schwartz.
New York: Waterson, Berlin & Snyder Co., ©1918.

1. When the gray shadows creep,
And the world is asleep,
In the still of the night,
Baby climbs down a flight.
First she looks all around,
Without making a sound,
Then baby toddles up to the telephone,
And whispers in a baby tone:

CHORUS: "Hello, Central! Give me No Man's Land.
My daddy's there, my mamma told me.
She tiptoed off to bed
After my prayer's were said.
Don't ring when you get my number,
Or you'll disturb mamma's slumber.
I'm afraid to stand here at the phone,
'Cause I'm alone,
So won't you hurry? I want to know why mamma starts to weep
When I say, 'Now I lay me down to sleep.'
Hello, Central! Give me No Man's Land."

2. Through the curtains of night
Comes a beautiful light,
And the sunshine that beams
Finds a baby in dreams.
Mamma looks in to see
Where her darling can be.
She finds her baby still in her slumber deep,
A-whisp'ring while she's fast asleep: CHORUS


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Genie
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 11:26 AM

Well, this coming Monday is Veterans' Day/Remembrance Day, so here's a link to one of the most popular WWII songs,
I'll Be Seeing You , which was actually published about 10 years earlier but became a favorite in the early 1940s.

Genie


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 11:30 AM

I am in favor of this holiday. When I think of all we owe to veterinarians it is clear that they deserve a special day in their honor. Just think where your horses dogs and cats, parrots and cockatiels, goldfish and black mollies would be without American veterinarians!!

A


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Troll
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 12:04 PM

Amos, that's NOT funny.

troll


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: mg
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 12:05 PM

not funny.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Francy
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 12:08 PM

Look up Tom Russell's "Veteran's Day".......Frank of Toledo


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 12:18 PM

What Troll said.

What mary garvey said.

Waht Francy said.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Hrothgar
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 10:16 PM

Not sure whether it's funny or not, Amos, but it's certainly in the wrong place.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: bbc
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 08:28 AM

Love & respect to our veterans. Thank you for serving our country!

bbc


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 09:45 AM

My grandfather, my father, my daughter and I all thank you.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: chip a
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 12:09 PM

Thanks dad.

No thanks Amos.

Chip


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: mg
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 08:59 PM

I will say that it was not intended to be hurtful so that is good.

mg


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Banjer
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 11:01 PM

I think Amos made a powerful point in spite of hiumself. I don't know if his meaning was tongue-in-cheek or not, but there are way too many folks that do not take our national days of remebrance and thanks seriously. Monday morning will again find me on the grounds of our local veterans hospital, Bay Pines, with elements of the Junior ROTC Honor Guard firing a cannon salute at the opening of the annual Veteran's Day ceremonies. I will follow that with a visit to the other side of the hospital where the cemetery is and visit with some familiar names. God Bless our freedoms and those who fight to maintain them!


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 11:24 PM

I don't believe that Amos had any intention whatever of insulting veterans. Whether his tongue in cheek comment was appropriate I will leave to the judgement of others.

What I would like to comment on, however, is the bad habit that folks have of confusing this day with Memorial Day. This is not the day to honor our war dead, except as the fact that they are Veterans. This is the day to walk up to a veteran and shake his/her hand and thank them for doing the worst job that humans are called on to do. Anyone who has gone to serve, especially during a time of armed conflict, and most especially in combat, has been profoundly affected. Only the odd ones find it exhilarating. The rest find that their lives will never be the same. They will never again see a sunrise, or tingle at the meeting of someone attractive, or smell the food in Mom's kitchen, or stare with wonder at the constellations on a clear winter night, ..............they will never do these things again through the naive, and optimistic eyes of youth, ever again.

I think of the nurses that had to assume the role of Mother, Lover, Wife for the dying in the field hospitals. These women had to hold crying boys afraid to die, and "help them on their way". Jed Marum wrote of one of these amazing women in his song "Banks of the Mobile" on his new CD. When I heard it, I thought of these women during my war, and the tears just flowed down my face. These veterans are heroes of the first order. Find one on Monday and give them all the thanks you can. They did the most difficult job one can imagine and under the worst conditions, some paid with their lives.

On this day I think of a young man, who only months before, had been playing in the big game, nervously rehearsing the words he would invite his girl to the prom with, watching corny sit coms or Laugh In on TV, and hearing his father talk about "the big war" and questioning what these sissy, long hairs were complaining about. After all, Vietnam wasn't like Europe. Next thing the young man knows is that boot camp seems like a dream and he is in country fighting for his life and not even sure what he is fighting for. 364 days later, if he is "lucky", he is standing on the tarmac waiting for a flight back to the world and a few days after that back on the front porch wondering what the hell that was all about. But he knows that he is different. The brightness is gone out of his eyes, and he know longer wonders what war would be like and whether he would be brave. He know longer wonders what it is like to kill, or what death looks and smells like. Or what it does to the people that live in the war zone. And worst of all................s/he dreams. Of lost dreams, and friends. S/he not only buried the bodies, but youth. Some deal with it differently, some are made of the stuff that allows them to put it behind them, some not. But all are affected mightily whether they admit it or not.

The price they paid was huge, the debt owed to them is profound.........and often unpaid.

Please.............find a vet.........walk up and at least shake their hand, and if they are willing, give them a hug. You owe them more than you will ever realize. And think about that.............Please.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 11:45 PM

Mick-That's one of the best posts that I have ever read on Mudcat.john


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: mg
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 11:58 PM

good comments. If anyone wants to write anything to some nurses and other women who served, I run a list called Sanctuary and they would love to hear stuff. If anyone posts stuff I will assume it is OK to put elsewhere or you can email me at mgarvey@pacifier.edu.

Mick, I disagree with one thing and that is Veterans' Day is a day to honor the veterans and Memorial Day for the dead. That is true that that is the official designation..but on the blackest day of the year, on the day that one war thankfully ended, we remember the dead. I would rather switch them and remember the honor the living on Memorial day..when the sun is more likely to be shining and it is not cold and raining and more than anything else dark...I remember the first time I let myself cry after Vietnam..it was in Newfoundland and a freezing cold rain overlooking the harbor..and they sang Flanders Fields....it was so cold my tears froze to my face....

Your friends, my friends, are going to D.C. in great numbers this year. I wish I was with them....they will remember the dead don't you know. The dead, the living..it all sort of runs together. I think we are in the middle somewhere...

I think I'll put my words here for Never Enough..

Chorus:

Never enough, never enough
The times I would fake it the times I would bluff
I wasn't that brave and I wasn't that tough
Oh God it was never enough

I went there to sing and I must have sung some
But I drank to forget and I drank to stay numb
A drunken old woman is what I've become
Oh God it was never enough

The radio crackled by night and by day
I tried to make out all the words they did say
But some men got captured and some got away
Oh God it was never enough

Some went to fight and some went to heal
What was stolen from me was not their's to steal
Now anger and rage are all that I feel
Oh God it was never enough

???
So many wounded and so many dead
???
Oh God it was never enough


I worked on the airbase   and met all the planes
I'd stand and salute in the fog and the rains
What used to be men are now called remains
Oh God it was never enough


---

looks like I forgot some. That is the verse about me. Probably repressed it. Oh well, maybe I will remember it later.

mg


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: mg
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 12:16 AM

out of all that I sent why can't I go instead
with so many wounded and so many dead
they'll come back to haunt me and that's what I dread
Oh God it was never enough

and if I knew what was good for me I probably should unplug my computer for a couple of days. mg


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: mg
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 12:25 AM

I don't care if people love us, hate us, honor us etc...but I wish there were a couple of days per year and one is coming up that they would lay the f*** off.


mg


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 12:35 AM

Mary.............thanks. Rest easy, my Sister. And never forget them. It is up to us to give them immortality. If we don't, who will?

Mick


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Tinker
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 01:54 AM

Sailing on Men River, I heard
A call; how deep how ordinary,
Seeking what I'd lost,
I found a host of saints.

--Soan ( trans Lucien Stryk)
Zen Poet


Blessings All

Kathy


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: The Pooka
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 10:06 AM

I'm certain that Amos was just being innocently punny & anarchic. He meant, and did, no harm.



Right on, Mick & everybody. Recently I had a chance meeting with a wounded Korea veteran, laboriously riding his bike (!) to & from the convenience store. He told me of his health troubles, and his (shoddy, it sounded like to me) treatments at the local Veterans' Hospital. Also of stacking US Marine corpses like cordwood upon the frozen ground near the Chinese border half-a-century ago.

The "forgotten war". When he was very young, this old man fought for freedom and his country, against 'the *other* poor sons-of-bitches' (see, "Patton") conscripted by arguably the most egregious regime of tyrants & mass murderers in the history of the human race thus far -- a hotly-contested title, to be sure. "Let a Hundred Flowers Bloom", indeed. / And, for what? So that we can now ask Beijing to ask Pyongyang to Please give up the Nukes?? Tears came to my eyes & I shook his hand and thanked him. Then he pedaled off into the night, with his groceries in a plastic bag in the bicycle basket. / May God bless all the veterans. "And for each and every underdog soldier in the night, we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing." - Dylan


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Banjer
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 10:33 AM

I found this on one of the newsgroups that I read occasionaly. It pretty much echos what Big Mick said in his post. Worth the read.


Veteran's Day Salute


He is the cop on the beat who spent six months in Saudi Arabia
sweating two gallons a day making sure the armored personnel
carriers didn't run out of fuel.

He is the barroom loudmouth, dumber than five wooden planks, whose
overgrown frat-boy behavior is outweighed a hundred times in the
cosmic scales by four hours of exquisite bravery near the 38th
parallel.

She (or he) is the nurse who fought against futility and went to
sleep sobbing every night for two solid years in Da Nang.

He is the POW who went away one person and came back another -- or
didn't come back AT ALL.

He is the Parris Island drill instructor who has never seen combat --
but has saved countless lives by turning slouchy, no-account rednecks
and gang members into Marines, and teaching them to watch each
other's backs.

He is the parade-riding Legionnaire who pins on his ribbons and
medals with a prosthetic hand.

He is the career quartermaster who watches the ribbons and medals
pass him by.

He is the three anonymous heroes in The Tomb Of The Unknowns, whose
presence at the Arlington National Cemetery must forever preserve the
memory of all anonymous heroes whose valor dies unrecognized with
them on the battlefield or in the ocean's sunless deep.

He is the old guy bagging groceries at the supermarket -- palsied now
and aggravatingly slow -- who helped liberate a Nazi death camp and
who wishes all day long that his wife were still alive to hold him
when the nightmares come.

He is an ordinary and yet an extraordinary human being -- a person
who offered some of his life's most vital years in the service of his
country, and who sacrificed his ambitions so others would not have
to sacrifice theirs.

He is a soldier and a savior and a sword against the darkness, and he
is nothing more than the finest, greatest testimony on behalf of the
finest, greatest nation ever known.

So remember, each time you see someone who has served our country,
just lean over and say Thank You. That's all most people need, and in
most cases it will mean more than any medals they could have been
awarded or were awarded.

Two little words that mean a lot, "THANK YOU."

It's the soldier, not the reporter, Who gave us our freedom of the
press.

It's the soldier, not the poet, Who gave us our freedom of speech.

It's the soldier, not the campus organizer, Who gave us our freedom
to demonstrate.

It's the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves others with
respect for the flag, And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who
allows the protester to burn the flag.


Of all the gifts you could give a U. S. serviceman, prayer is the
very best one.


Prayer for our Servicemen:
Lord, hold our troops in Your loving hands. Protect them as they
protect us. Bless them and their families for the selfless acts they
perform for us in our time of need. Amen




                                                                  Author Unknown


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 10:40 AM

How about "Feel Like I'm Fixin'To Die Rag" by Country Joe & the Fish?

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: Schantieman
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 10:43 AM

I've just got in from a Remembrance Day parade and read this thread. The piece above is very moving. Thanks, Banjer.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 10:55 AM

I disagree with your interpretation of what Veteran's Day means Mary. Here is an excerpt of a Veteran's Day essay/letter I had forwarded to me years ago by my Korean War Vet brother-in-law. It was titled "A Day to Begin Taking Back America's Future". I don't know if it can still be found online or not.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Veteran's Day should be a day for Vets to sound off to those who know the lingo and the lies. Vets understand each other. They've a special shared danger-bonding that helps many in the healing which never in one lifetime is 100 percent. Their warrior talk blows away the loneliness which comes from not being able to explain what happened to them to those who didn't make the journey.

This day should be one of serious reflection, to every American, not just about putting up our feet or talking about when we were young and brave. We need to think about the wars that were just -- WW1, WW11 and Korea -- and the bad ones, the futile swamps -- the Vietnams, the Lebanans, the Panamas and the Somalias -- where our cause was unjust or uncertain and where Americans died in vain. We should find out who was responsible for the miscalculations and look deeply into how we can prevent more of our youth from being so savagely wasted.

Many Vets today are asking : just what the hell they fought for? They say the "great sucking sound" is the values and ideals that made the USA the land of opportunity flushing down the toilet. They say: try walking down a dark street in most towns in America without feeling you're on patrol deep behind enemy lines; take a look at our rivers, our forests, our eco system and pretend your're not wandering through Death Valley; look at our youth who have little future beyond serving burgers and no hope to ever make it as their grandparents did; examine our sidewalks littered with needles from drugs that threaten our young from within more than any enemy from without; see our pork-driven, self-serving politicians buy still more wonder weapons to fight an enemy that's not there while feathering their nests with retirement programs fit for kings; listen to the political campaigns so gutter-disgusting they make mud wrestling look like an intellectual sport and Joe McCarthy look like a choir boy.


Did we fight and work so hard to watch our land and people become wasted and ruined? Bill Clinton said at Normandy last June "... America is the way it is today because of what people gave up 50 years ago." He got it wrong. America is the way it is today because too many of those of us who served switched off after we took off our uniforms, expecting the politicians to take over the watch and protect what we fought for.

So, have a good Veteran's Day -- but then after the celebration, take charge of our country again. There's 27 million of you out there, not to mention a few hundred million non-veterans -- you're the makings of some Revolutionary Army. Which if you think about it is what started America the Beautiful in the first place!


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 11:04 AM

I apologize--I missed the last two paragraphs of the essay in my cut and paste. Here they are:

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Did we fight and work so hard to watch our land and people become wasted and ruined? Bill Clinton said at Normandy last June "... America is the way it is today because of what people gave up 50 years ago." He got it wrong. America is the way it is today because too many of those of us who served switched off after we took off our uniforms, expecting the politicians to take over the watch and protect what we fought for.

So, have a good Veteran's Day -- but then after the celebration, take charge of our country again. There's 27 million of you out there, not to mention a few hundred million non-veterans -- you're the makings of some Revolutionary Army. Which if you think about it is what started America the Beautiful in the first place!


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: CET
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 12:29 PM

Tomorrow morning I will put on my uniform and pin on the medals a grateful nation has given me for doing nothing that was even remotely brave or difficult. Then I will walk to the Cenotaph in downtown Ottawa and attend the Remembrance Day ceremony.

I do this every year because I consider it a sacred duty. I am almost embarassed to wear my medals I received for serving in Germany, Bosnia and Haiti when I compare them to the medals that other men earned at Vimy Ridge or Ortona or Juno Beach or during the liberation of Holland. However, I wear my medals anyway to show respect.

It is because remembrance is a sacred duty that I have real misgivings about mixing it with patriotism. Essays like the one quoted above contain a lot of truth, but they also leave an unpleasant taste in my mouth when the author wraps himself in the flag:

"He is a soldier and a savior and a sword against the darkness, and he is nothing more than the finest, greatest testimony on behalf of the finest, greatest nation ever known."

This kind of bombastic patriotism bothers me a great deal. It seems cheap and tacky when applied to the duty of honouring those who have served in war. It is also insulting to soldiers who suffered as much and worked as hard and died in the service of other countries. Did they give up their youth or their health or their lives on behalf of countries that were only reasonably great, the also rans of history?

To my mind, the example set by those who have fought for their country demands humility, the kind that Abraham Lincoln showed at Gettysburg, or that Laurence Binyon exemplified in the lines that are read at every Remembrance Day service in Canada:

"They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them."

Edmund

(P.S. As a matter of interest, is there anybody else on Mudcat who is still serving?)


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 12:37 PM

I really don't know why ANON.GUEST thinks his/her.its contribution is at all different from friend Mary's. They both are examples of the right a person has to express a personal opinion, even anonymously, which is one of the rights veterans have fought to protect.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: mg
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 12:54 PM

I think a post that is disrepectful to veterans on veterans day of all days is deliberately provocative and abusive. They have the rest of the year to make their point. And I will tell you this...an angel, and I believe it was St. Michael the Archangel, told me that no one has ever died in vain. So that is what I believe. mg


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 01:00 PM

Probably true, artbrooks. But I have asked Mary here and in another thread, what group of people she feels should shut up and be silent on Veteran's Day. Seems odd to me.

As to the remark by Amos, the only thing I find inappropriate are the overwrought, reactionary responses by Mary, Midchuck, Chip, Troll, francy, et al. I found Amos' remark to be good natured punning, and a gentle attempt to break the tension being created by those who are trying to define Veteran's Day on their own narrow, personal, "patriotic" terms. The day is not just for them.

I'm certainly with Edmund. Only I'm not just bothered by such bombastic patriotic sentiments, I'm deeply offended by them.

Paul Wellstone was a patriot and a warrior who died for his country too, and he never served in the military. The fact that he did not serve in the military had nothing to do with bravery, cowardice, or patriotism.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 01:19 PM

Mary, I ask you again, respectfully and politely, to define what you consider to be disprespectful to veterans. You just posted again, saying: "I think a post that is disrepectful to veterans on veterans day of all days is deliberately provocative and abusive."

None of us knows how to keep from offending you, if you don't tell us what it is you consider to be disrespectful. I see no one here in Mudcat, in any way, showing disrespect for veterans. So it really would be helpful if you would tell us how you think some of us are being disrespectful, rather than making indirect accusations about disrectfulness.


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Subject: RE: Veteran's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 01:48 PM

artbrooks, veterans are not the only US citizens who have fought to protect our constitution, and our Bill of Rights. Many citizen activists have fought for them, but in non-violent, non-militarist ways.

The price for retaining our democratic freedoms enshrined in our constitution and Bill of Rights, artbrooks, is a constant, diligent watch over our political and miliatry leaders, and that requires daily citizenship. Not military service.


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