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Help: The Foggy Dew: Sud el Bar? Huns?

DigiTrad:
THE BOGLE BO (or Bugaboo)
THE FOGGY DEW
THE FOGGY DEW (2)
THE FOGGY DEW (6)
THE FOGGY DEW (Irish 2)
THE FOGGY DEW (Irish)
THE FOGGY DEW (revolutionary)
THE FOGGY, FOGGY DEW


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Foggy Dew (Irish) (30)
Lyr Req: The Foggy Foggy Dew (bachelor) (34)
Help: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill): tune? (24)
ADD/Origins: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill) (28)
The Foggy Dew [O'Neil] (20)
Lyr Req: The Foggy Dew (lovesong-not weavers) (14)
The Foggy Dew[East Anglian Version] (68)
Lyr Req: The Foggy Dew (from Sinead O'Connor) (13)
(origins) Origins: The Foggy Foggy Dew [bachelor] (8)
Tune Add: The Foggy Dew (Alfred Perceval Graves) (10)
Lyr Req: The Foggy Foggy Dew parody (doggy poo) (3)
Lyr Req: The Foggy Dew (from Tony Capstick) (5)
Help: The Foggy Dew: 'Valera true'? (62)
(origins) Origins: The Foggy Foggy Dew (from Phil Hammond) (3)
Lyr Req: The Foggy Dew: 'Over the hills I went...' (15)
(origins) Origins:Yorkshire Damsel/Damosel [Foggy Foggy Dew] (10)
Help: The Foggy Dew (from John McCormack, 1913) (8)
Lyr Req: The Foggy Dew (from Martin Carthy) (16)
Help: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill): Copyrighted? (15)
Help: The Foggy Dew: perfidious Albion? (11)
Lyr Add: The Foggy Dew - English (18)
Lyr Req: The Foggy Dew (Irish 2) (10)


leprechaun 11 Nov 97 - 01:27 AM
Benjamin Bodhra/nai 11 Nov 97 - 07:18 AM
Martin Ryan 12 Nov 97 - 04:22 AM
dick greenhaus 12 Nov 97 - 10:41 AM
Martin Ryan 12 Nov 97 - 12:13 PM
leprechaun 13 Nov 97 - 01:56 PM
Alice 15 Nov 97 - 11:03 PM
dick greenhaus 16 Nov 97 - 11:35 AM
Alice 16 Nov 97 - 01:55 PM
Martin Ryan 24 Nov 97 - 11:34 AM
dick greenhaus 24 Nov 97 - 01:28 PM
Nigel Sellars 25 Nov 97 - 09:37 AM
Wolfgang Hell 26 Nov 97 - 10:56 AM
mm 27 Jun 98 - 07:31 PM
Brad 29 Jun 98 - 12:23 AM
leprechaun 30 Jun 98 - 02:15 AM
Pete Peterson (lutrine@itw.com) 30 Jun 98 - 11:32 PM
BrianBhoy 27 Dec 99 - 07:05 PM
Sandy Paton 27 Dec 99 - 10:41 PM
SingsIrish Songs 28 Dec 99 - 03:36 AM
Sandy Paton 29 Dec 99 - 01:31 AM
GUEST,Conor 15 Jun 01 - 10:29 AM
GUEST,Ryan 08 Oct 01 - 11:06 PM
DonMeixner 08 Oct 01 - 11:26 PM
GUEST,Born Again Scouser 09 Oct 01 - 06:44 PM
GUEST,Irish Bard 10 Oct 01 - 09:35 AM
JedMarum 10 Oct 01 - 09:51 AM
Big Tim 10 Oct 01 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,Zena 18 Oct 01 - 08:51 PM
Airto 19 Oct 01 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 19 Oct 01 - 04:25 PM
Alice 19 Oct 01 - 08:51 PM
Alice 19 Oct 01 - 09:35 PM
MartinRyan 22 Oct 01 - 04:50 AM
Big Tim 22 Oct 01 - 04:59 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 22 Oct 01 - 06:53 AM
Big Tim 22 Oct 01 - 04:19 PM
Art Thieme 22 Oct 01 - 09:30 PM
Wolfgang 23 Oct 01 - 08:08 AM
Big Tim 23 Oct 01 - 02:49 PM
GUEST, O'Brien 30 Jan 02 - 08:16 AM
GUEST,Guest Ard Mhacha 30 Jan 02 - 08:36 AM
GUEST,Ard Macha 30 Jan 02 - 08:38 AM
WyoWoman 30 Jan 02 - 11:59 PM
MartinRyan 31 Jan 02 - 02:52 AM
MartinRyan 31 Jan 02 - 02:55 AM
leprechaun 01 Feb 02 - 02:53 AM
Big Tim 01 Feb 02 - 03:21 PM
jacko@nz 01 Feb 02 - 04:59 PM
GUEST,Zena 29 Mar 02 - 12:38 AM
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Subject: The Foggy Dew
From: leprechaun
Date: 11 Nov 97 - 01:27 AM

In the lyrics of "The Foggy Dew" is a mention of Suvla and Sud el Bar. While reading about Gallipoli, I finally found out where and what Suvla was. I still have yet to locate Sud el Bar. I'm assuming it was a battle field in WWI or the Boer War. Another interesting lyric in The Foggy Dew is sometimes read as "Britannia's HUNS with their long range guns..." The reference to Huns seems strange, in that England was at war with Germany at the time of the Easter Rising. Other versions say "Britannia's SONS with their long range guns..." This makes more sense to me. If anybody has any insight into the Sud el Bar reference, or the huns/sons reference, I'd be after knowing more.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Benjamin Bodhra/nai
Date: 11 Nov 97 - 07:18 AM

Hey ya Leprechaun,

The term Hun is used a lot just to describe a bloodthirsty warring people or person, so yes in the view of the Irish republicans the English were Huns. Also the fact that the English are Anglo-Saxons, Anglelandt and Saxony being part of Germany and Denmark. But the phrase Britains sons is one I have found more common and it is more appropriate I think.

Sud el Bar was a battle area in WWI, but having just done a quick check of my history books I can't find a good reference to it. It is in the Middle East and I'm sure that Australia was involved as that is why I would have a reference in my mind. I think it was in Egypt, maybe the same time and area as the Beersheba charge. Don't quote me.

Sla/n

Benjamin


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 12 Nov 97 - 04:22 AM

Sud el Bar was in Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq).WW1

According to Cathal O'Boyle's "Songs of the County Down", the song was written in 1919 by Canon Charles O Neill, a catholic parish priest in Down. The air "belonged to an old love song, recorded in 1913 by John McCormack". I'm not sure what that last refers to - although the air is certainly used (with slight differences) for "The Banks of the Moorlough Shore" - which is a beautiful love song!

"Brittania's sons" was definitely the original, BTW.

Regards


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Nov 97 - 10:41 AM

Hi Martin- The McCormack recorded version is the one with the verse ending:

"Young man, she said, the boy I'll wed I'm to meet in the foggy dew."

I'm pretty sure we have it in the database. dick


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 12 Nov 97 - 12:13 PM

Dick

Thanx. There's another verse or to to the "revolutionary" set- I'll forward them later.

Regards


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: leprechaun
Date: 13 Nov 97 - 01:56 PM

Thanks everybody. As always, I've been rewarded with more than I hoped for. Now I'm wondering where to get recordings of the John McCormack songs. My grandfather's name was John McCormack, and to get the English off his trail, he changed it to McCormick when he fled to Canada around 1910 or so.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE FOGGY DEW (from John McCormack)
From: Alice
Date: 15 Nov 97 - 11:03 PM

Dick, this caught my eye because I have an old RCA, 1958, recording of "John McCormack Sings Irish Songs", reproducing his early recordings. I checked the database, and the love song version you have there is different than the one he sings on the record. The recording is January 3, 1913. I transcribed the lyrics.

THE FOGGY DEW

Oh, down the hill I went one morn,
A lovely maid I spied.
Her hair was bright as the dew that went,
Sweet banners seldom ride.
And where go ye, sweet maid, said I,
And she raised her eyes of blue.
And smiled and said, The boy I wed,
I'm to meet in the foggy dew.

Go hide your clothes ye roses red,
And droop ye lilies fair.
For you must pale for very shame,
Before a maid so fair.
Said I, Dear maid, will you be my bride,
She raised her eyes of blue.
And smiled and said, The boy I wed,
I'm to meet in the foggy dew.

Oh, down the hill I went one morn,
A-singing I did go.
Oh, down the hill I went one morn,
She answered sweet and low.
Yes, I will be your own dear bride,
And I know that you'll be true.
Then spied in my arms, and all her charms,
Were hidden in the foggy dew.


In the album notes written by Max de Schauenesee, it says,"McCormack, in his long association with the phonograph, made more than 580 records, and was one of the most successful singers to place his art on discs... as a bel-canto stylist of the Italian school, he kept the undeviating vocal line advancing on an uninterrupted breath-stream, as one word melted into the next in a caressing legato. Therefore, it may seem almost paradoxical to claim that McCormack's every word stood out crystal-clear against the musical backgrounds."

It is true, that in spite of it being a rough, scratchy sounding 1913 recording, the words he sang were clearly communicated.

Alice in Montana


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Nov 97 - 11:35 AM

Thanx Alice- I guess my memory faileth. I'll correct the McCormack reference in the database.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Alice
Date: 16 Nov 97 - 01:55 PM

Dick, the one word that I thought was awkward that McCoramck sang was in the line..." Then SPIED in my arms... " at the end of the song. I listened with headphones over and over, and it could only be that word he is saying. If anyone has a published copy with the lyrics saying something else, I would be interested in seeing it. I looked it up in my largest dictionary to see if there may be another meaning, and I can only interpret it as watching from the concealment of his arms. Thanks. Alice in Montana


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 11:34 AM

Two further verses to the "revolutionary set". They fit as third and last of the set in the DT.

O the night fell black and the rifles crack made perfidious Albion reel
Mid the leaden rain seven tongues of flame did shine o'er the lines of steel
By each shining blade a prayer was said that to Irealnd her sons be true
And when morning broke still the war flag shook its folds in the foggy dew


As back through the glen I rode again, my heart with grief was sore
For I parted then with valiant men whom I never shall see more
But to and fro in my dreams I go and I'll kneel and pray for you
For slavery fled, O glorious dead, when you fell in the foggy dew.


The above are taken from a (very) secondary source. A few bits sit awkwardly to my ear. I'll see if I can confirm them.

Still think "The Maid of the Moorlough SHore" is the best set to this lovely air!

Regards


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 01:28 PM

Thanx Martin- I forgot these; and I've always loved the Perfidious Albion line.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Nigel Sellars
Date: 25 Nov 97 - 09:37 AM

Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me, but I recall yet another verse sung by Sinead O'Connor with the Chieftains that talks about children and wives. Only heard it once, but it certainly struck me as different. Any one know?


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 26 Nov 97 - 10:56 AM

She sings no such verse on the "Long Black Veil" CD with the Chieftains. Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: mm
Date: 27 Jun 98 - 07:31 PM

re: Huns

The English used to refer to the Germans as the "Huns" during the Great War (World War I). In Ireland this was turned back on them; I remember a song of my youth called "Down by the Liffeyside", one of the less politically correct versions of which had the lines:

"And we'll have little children
And we'll rear them neat and clean
To shout 'Up de Valera'
And to sing about Sinn Féin.

[A small piece escapes me here]

"And we'll spike the guns
Of the Saxon Huns
Down by the Liffeyside".


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Brad
Date: 29 Jun 98 - 12:23 AM

The Wolfe Tones sing this song (Down by the Liffeyside) on their 25th Anniversary CD set.

Brad


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: leprechaun
Date: 30 Jun 98 - 02:15 AM

Thank you mm, Martin and Brad.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Pete Peterson (lutrine@itw.com)
Date: 30 Jun 98 - 11:32 PM

Sud-el-Bar was one of the battles in the Gallipoli campaign, in 1915; so was Suvla Bay. At least I think so-- just got out my Amer. Heritage History of WWI to check and found Suvla in the indes but not Sud-el-Bar. It certainly SOUNDS Arabic (or Turkish) never thirst PETE PETERSON


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Subject: Require Words and Guitar Chords
From: BrianBhoy
Date: 27 Dec 99 - 07:05 PM

Help!!!

Can anyone help me with the words and guitar chords for the tune The Foggy Dew???

I need it for an Irish night and would appreciate any help!!

Thanks,

Brianbhoy


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Require Words and Guitar Chor
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 27 Dec 99 - 10:41 PM

Brian: around here, you'll have to be more specific. Which "Foggy Dew" are you asking for?


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Require Words and Guitar Chor
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 28 Dec 99 - 03:36 AM

You can request it from Prof's Traditional Irish Music pages....select Music Map on the navi bar, then Songs...

Prof's Pages

http://www.prof.co.uk/irish1.htm

Tell him SingsIrish sent ya....

Mary


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Require Words and Guitar Chor
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:31 AM

Since Brian mentioned it was for an "Irish Night" that he needed the song, I thought he might be looking for the old rebel song in which "the English huns, with their long range guns, sailed in through the foggy dew," rather than the song about the bachelor and the serving maiden. What say you, Brian? Sandy


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: GUEST,Conor
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 10:29 AM

In the North of Ireland (around Belfast at least) The word Hun is often used as a derogitory (sp) term for a protestant, in a similar vein to Taig or Fenian when describing a catholic...


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: GUEST,Ryan
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 11:06 PM

It's my understanding that "Sud-el-Bar" is actually 'Sedd el Bahr' and was indeed part of the Gallipoli campaign.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE FOGGY DEW (several songs)
From: DonMeixner
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 11:26 PM

Here is everything I could find on the Foggy Dew

Some of the Songs Titled FOGGY DEW

'Twas down the glen one Easter morn
To a city fair rode I.
When Ireland's line of marching men
In squadrons passed me by.
No pipe did hum, no battle drum
Did sound its dread tattoo
But the Angelus bell o'er the Liffey's swell
Rang out in the foggy dew.

Right proudly high over Dublin town
They flung out a flag of war.
'Twas better to die 'neath an Irish sky
Than at Suvla or Sud el Bar.
And from the plains of Royal Meath
Strong men came hurrying through;
While Britannia's sons with their long-range guns
Sailed in through the foggy dew.

Oh, the night fell black and the rifles crack
Made "Perfidious Albion" reel
'Mid the leaden rail, seven tongues of flame
Did shine o'er the lines of steel
By each shining blade, a prayer was said
That to Ireland her sons be true
And when morning broke still the war flag shook
Out its fold in the Foggy Dew.

'Twas England bade our Wild Geese go
That small nations might be free
But their lonely graves are by Suvla's waves
Or the fringe of the grey North Sea
Oh had they died by Pearse's side,
Or had fought with Cathal Brugha
Their graves we'd keep where the Fenians sleep,
'Neath the shroud of the Foggy Dew.

But the bravest fell, and the requiem bell
Rang mournfully and clear
For those who died that Eastertide
In the springing of the year
And the world did gaze, with deep amaze,
At those fearless men and true
Who bore the fight that freedom's light
Might shine through the Foggy Dew.

Ah, back through the glen I rode again,
And my heart with grief was sore
For I parted then with valiant men
Whom I never shall see more
But to and fro in my dreams I go
And I'd kneel and pray for you
For slavery fled, O glorious dead,
When you fell in the Foggy Dew.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Over the hills I went one day, a lovely maid I spied
With her coal-black hair and her mantle so green.
An image to perceive.
Says I, "Dear girl, will you be my bride
And she lifted her eyes of blue
She smiled and said, "Young man I'm to wed
I'm to meet in the foggy dew."

Over the hills I went one morn, a-singing I did go.
Met this lovely maid with her coal-black hair,
And she answered soft and low:
Said she, "Young man, I'll be your bride,
If I know that you'll be true."
Oh, in my arms, all of her charms
Were casted in the foggy dew.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, a wan cloud was drawn o'er the dim weeping dawn
As to Shannon's side I return'd at last,
And the heart in my breast for the girl I lov'd best
Was beating, ah, beating, how loud and fast!
While the doubts and the fears of the long aching years
Seem'd mingling their voices with the moaning flood:
Till full in my path, like a wild water wraith,
My true love's shadow lamenting stood.

But the sudden sun kissed the cold, cruel mist
Into dancing show'rs of diamond dew,
And the dark flowing stream laugh'd back to his beam,
And the lark soared aloft in the blue;
While no phantom of night but a form of delight
Ran with arms outspread to her darling boy,
And the girl I love best on my wild throbbing breast
Hid her thousand treasures with cry of joy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I was a bachelor, I lived all alone
I followed the roving trade
And the only thing that I ever did wrong
Was I courted a fair young maid.
I courted her for a summer season
And part of the winter too
And many's the night she rolled in my arms
All over the foggy dew

One night as I lay on my bed
As I lay fast asleep
She came to me at my bedside
And bitterly she did weep
She wept, she moaned, she tore her hair
She cried what shall I do
For tonight I'm determined to sleep with you
For fear of the foggy dew

All through the first part of that night
How we did sport and play
And through the second part of that night
She in my arms did lay
And when the daylight did appear
She cried I am undone
Oh hold your tongue you silly young thing
For the foggy dew is gone

Supposing you should have a child
Would make you laugh and smile
And supposing you should have another
Would make you think a while
And supposing you should have another
And another one or two
T'would make you leave off those foolish young tricks
That you played in the foggy dew

I loved that girl with all my heart
I loved her like my life
But in the second part of that year
She became another man's wife
I never told him of her faults
And I never intend to do
Nor of the times she rolled in my arms
All over the foggy dew

Again I am a bachelor; I live with my son
We work at the weaver's trade.
And every sing time I look into his eyes
He reminds me of that fair young maid.
He reminds me of the wintertime
Part of the summer, too,
And the many, many times that I held her in my arms
Just to keep her from the foggy, foggy, dew.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I was in my prenticeship
And learning of my trade,
I courted my master's daughter,
Which made my heart right glad.
I courted her both summer's days
And winter nights also
But I never could her favor win
Till I hired the Bogle Bo.
Day being gone, and night coming on,
My neighbour he took a sheet
And straight into her room he went
Just like a wandering spirit.
She went running up and down,
Not knowing where to go
But right into my bed she went
For fear of the Bogle Bo.

And so my true love and me,
Did both fall fast asleep,
But ere the morn at fair daylight,
Sore, sore did she weep
Sore, sore did she weep;
Sore, sore did she mourn
But ere she rose and put on her clothes,
The Bogle bo was gone.

You've done the thing to me last night,
The thing you cannot shun
You've taen from me my maidenhead,
And I am quite undone.
You've taen from me my maidenhead,
And brought my body low
But, kind sir, if you'll marry me,
I will be your jo.

Now he's married her and taen her hame,
And it was but his part
She's proved to him a loving wife,
And joy of all his heart;
He never told her of the joke,
Nor ne'er intends to do
But aye when his wife smiles on him,
He minds the Bogle bo.

Don

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 3-Sep-02.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: GUEST,Born Again Scouser
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 06:44 PM

This is one of those great songs you never seem to hear of any more. I first heard it on an LP my brother gave me for Christmas in 1969. The LP was 'A Touch Of The Blarney' by Noel Murphy and as it was on the 'Music For Pleasure' (!) label I assume it was a couple of years old even then.

I played it again a couple of weeks ago. Murphy always seems to me to be one of those people who didn't quite get the timing right. If you listen to the record now (and that song in particular) it's as moving and as powerful and as powerful as anything I've heard by Christy Moore.

Like Christy, Murphy lived in England at the time. unlike Christy, he stayed there. By the late 60/early 70s he was probably the biggest draw on the folk circuit in England, mainly becuse of his reputation as a hilarious stand-up entertainer. I'm guessing now and I'm probably wrong but I think it would have been a lot harder for Murphy to establish himself as a purveyor of the sort of political material Christy became known for in the mid-late 70s even if he had wanted to (it's perhaps not so easy to sing about the evils of the British Army when your next-door neighbours son might be a British squaddie).

So Christy became the darling of the Left and Murphy ended up playing to an ever-decreasing audience of golfers and piss-artists who didn't wnat to hear him sing so much as see him falling about playing the pissed-up paddy until Shane McGowan came along and stole his act.

Last I heard he was living in the West Country having moved away (not before time) from the crawlers, no-marks and talentless hangers-on that had come to comprise most of what was left of the folk scene in West London and the Richmond and Twickenham area in particular (not you, Derek).

I still think he's got a great album in him somewhere. Someone ought to do something about that...


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: GUEST,Irish Bard
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 09:35 AM

Hi Folks,
a few months ago I had to write an essay on the subject "The Foggy Dew". Leprechaun, if you give me your e-mail address I will send this essay to you. There's lot of information on 12 pages. It's about the song "The Foggy Dew" and the easter Rising Dublin, 1916. SO if you are interested in reading it leave your e-mail address here or write to drzonk@web.de
Greetings

The Irish Bard


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: JedMarum
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 09:51 AM

Mudcatter, Guinnesschick (aka Karen) sings this song beautifully with Eammons Kitchen. It's a great song and always pleases audiences, who rarely understand much of the history behind the song (Eammons Kitchen plays in the US).


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 02:10 PM

According to Soodlum's "Irish Ballad Book" (which is admittedly full of mistakes) the song was written by Father P.O'Neill (not Charles). Can anyone verify the priest's name accurately and does anyone know anything about him. It's a great song.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE FOGGY DEW
From: GUEST,Zena
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:51 PM

Here is a set of lyrics I found at http://www.blackbeers.rdsor.ro/foggydew.html. I don't know what their source is.

This version is very similar to that sung by McCormack. Where McC has a different word, I've placed it after the one in the text separated by a slash (eg. word in text/McC's word).

Alice, I think your awkward 'spied' in the last verse is in fact 'sighed'. My version here says 'signed' but I think that's just a typo.

Also, in this version there's a line in the first verse given as 'Sweet Anner's verdant side'. It certainly sounds like this is what McC says, but it doesn't mean anything to me. Does anyone else have any ideas about this line?

If anyone has any info on the history of this song before 1913, it would be greatly appreciated :-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A down the hill I went one morn,
A lovely maid I spied.
Her hair was as/(nothing) bright as the dew that wets
Sweet Anner's verdant side.
'And where go ye, sweet maid,' said I?
She raised her eyes of blue,
And smiled and said 'The boy I wed
I'm to meet in the foggy dew.'

Go hide your blooms ye roses red
And droop ye lilies rare.
For you must pale for very shame,
Before a maid so fair.
Said I 'Dear maid, will you be me bride?'
Beneath [She raised] her eyes of blue,
She/And smiled and said, 'The boy I wed
I'm to meet in the foggy dew.'

A down the hill I went at/one morn,
A singing I did go.
A down the hill I went at/one morn,
She answer'd soft/sweet and low.
'Yes I will be your own dear bride,
And I know that you'll be true.'
Then signed/sighed in me/my arms and all her charms
Were hid/hidden in the foggy dew.

Zena

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 3-Sep-02.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Airto
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 09:56 AM

There is a river Anner in Co. Tipperary. Sounds to me like you've got it right.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:25 PM

Big Tim

Wouldn't surprise me if that "P O Neill" was by way of a freudian slip! I'll see if I can check it elsewhere.

Regards


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Alice
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 08:51 PM

Zena, Thanks so much! Yes, I'm aware of the Anner, from another song, "She Lived Beside The Anner". "Sighed" fits, too... thank you. This version of lyrics recorded by John McCormack has "Milligan-Clay" next to it on the cover. The piano accompaniment was by Spencer Clay, so I am assuming the lyrics may have been by "Milligan" and the arrangement by Spencer Clay. I've searched but have not found "Milligan". Anyone know?

Alice


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Alice
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 09:35 PM

On a web page of John McCormack's recordings, I found other references to "Milligan":

Foggy Dew, The ("A' down the hill I went one morn...")(E. Milligan/C. Milligan Fox, arr. Spencer Clay)B 12767-1 (3 January 1913)

By the Shortcut to the Rosses (Nora Hopper/Old Irish Air, arr. C. Milligan Fox) BVE 41546-1, -2 (13 January 1928)

So there is an E. Milligan and a C. Milligan Fox...

I also found this reference on a web page for poems by Ethna Carbery (Anna MacManus), Click Here who died in 1902 : "Mrs. C. MILLIGAN FOX is arranging to have the greater number of the poems in book fitted with airs from Petrie's collection."
You might be interested also in seeing the lyrics of Rody M'Corely, as written by Ethna Carbery Click Here.

Alice


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 04:50 AM

Alice

Alice (!) L. Milligan and Charlotte Milligan Fox were daughters of Seaton F Milligan a North of Ireland Methodist businessman and antiquary. Charlotte, in particular, was a collector - she publisehd Annnals of the irish Harpers based on Buntings collection. Alice was more literary - and more politically involved. Wrote plays, poetry essays etc.

Whicch just leaves the question of "E. Milligan"!

Regards

p.s.Source is the Dictionary of Irish Biography.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Big Tim
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 04:59 AM

Charlotte Milligan-Fox (1864-1916)jointly edited, with Herbert Hughes, the early issues of the Journal of the Irish Folksong Society, first issued in London in 1904. She has an entry in "Dict of Ulster Biography" (1993).


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 06:53 AM

Big Tim

So she did - I have copy of the reprint edition of the journal and can suddenly see a photograph of the woman in my minds eye...! I think there was a tribute to her on her death.

Regards


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Big Tim
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 04:19 PM

Martin, I have a copy of the original! Only cost me IR £15 recently: try Cathair Books website.(Dublin)


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 09:30 PM

Alas, we have FOURTEEN 33 & 1/3 albums (LPs) by John M. and a turntable that quit. Some of it is on cassette but nowhere near enough. For our 35th wedding anniversary, my dream is to have all of that music put on CDs for Carol. I'm afraid that January 3rd is aproaching too quickly for me to get it done for our next celebration---but does anyone know an outfit that does this kind of thing for folks?

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 08:08 AM

As for the author, I checked all my songbooks last night. About ten with this song in them don't mention it or state 'anonymous'. Three mention an author. Soodlum's as posted above by Big Tim.
C. O'Boyle, Songs of Co. Down, says 'Canon Charles O'Neill'
C.D. Greaves, The Easter rising in song and ballads, says 'Rev. P. O'Neill'

Nothing conclusive. I'm surprised that less than a century after the song was written, the authorship can be under debate.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Big Tim
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 02:49 PM

Yes W. Shouldn't be too hard to find. Come you Dubliners!


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: GUEST, O'Brien
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 08:16 AM

Anybody know who wrote"the fighting men from Crossmaglen"


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: GUEST,Guest Ard Mhacha
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 08:36 AM

I have never heard of a song with that title, it may be The Dalin` men from Crossmaglen, sung by Tommy Makem. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: GUEST,Ard Macha
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 08:38 AM

Guest O`Brien you are breaking a Mudcat house rule, start a new thread. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: WyoWoman
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 11:59 PM

Ryan, do you have the words to "The Banks of the Moorlough Shore"?

WyoWoman


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 02:52 AM

WyoWoman.

The version I sing is in the DT Here

Regards


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 02:55 AM

There's also a nice version Here with notes from John Moulden.

Regards


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: leprechaun
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 02:53 AM

I thought this thread looked familiar.


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Big Tim
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 03:21 PM

The Fighting Men of Crossmaglen is on many a rebel compilation CD, it's a good rebel song, in the tradition of Broad Black Brimmer, but very one-sided, not surprisingly. Re authorship of Foggy Dew I have since done some research in Belfast and found the following: the rebel version was written by Fr.(Canon) CHARLES O'Neill, born in Portglenone in 1887, died Newcastle (Down) in 1963. He was based in parishes in Belfast, Kilcoo and Newcastle. Buried in Newcastle. I got a photo of him with De Valera and Frank Aiken (IRA Chief of Staff in 1923 after death of Liam Lynch, and later minister in Free State Gov). Fr Charles had a brother, Patrick, also a priest with whom he is often confused re authorship of Foggy Dew. Charles NOT Patrick wrote it!


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: jacko@nz
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 04:59 PM

Just to put it on the map, Sedd-el-Bahr is at the end of the Gallipoli peninsula, some two kilometres from Cape Helles, and thirty kilometres from Suvla Bay. It was the scene of the initial assault on the peninsula on February 19, 1915.

The Royal Navy had been in the area for several months at that time and had had engagements with the Turks already.

Jack


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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: GUEST,Zena
Date: 29 Mar 02 - 12:38 AM

I've been trying to sort out where the tune comes from and not having much luck.

Alice theorized that Milligan wrote it on the basis of the credits on the John McCormack album, but I haven't been able to substantiate this. The record I have just says "Milligan-Clay" and doesn't mention composer or arranger like the info from the McCormack website.

It sounds like Milligan may have collected the song or at least arranged it. Perhaps McCormack used Milligan's arrangement that Clay then tweaked in his accompaniment, thus the credit to Clay as well. I guess the tune and love song lyrics are both traditional, though I'm surprised that McCormack didn't identify it as such. If anyone has further info, I'd be very interested to hear it.

Zena


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