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Saccharine Overload (songs)

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Shula 27 Oct 97 - 08:42 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 27 Oct 97 - 08:54 PM
Akiba 27 Oct 97 - 09:10 PM
Bill D 27 Oct 97 - 11:49 PM
Joe Offer 28 Oct 97 - 12:43 AM
Shula 28 Oct 97 - 02:02 AM
alison 28 Oct 97 - 05:58 AM
Helen 28 Oct 97 - 07:19 AM
Bert 28 Oct 97 - 08:55 AM
Barbara 28 Oct 97 - 09:54 AM
Jon W. 28 Oct 97 - 12:40 PM
Jon W. 28 Oct 97 - 12:43 PM
Bill D 28 Oct 97 - 01:50 PM
DWDitty 28 Oct 97 - 04:36 PM
rechal 28 Oct 97 - 04:44 PM
Helen 28 Oct 97 - 06:03 PM
Sheye 28 Oct 97 - 06:04 PM
Helen 28 Oct 97 - 06:08 PM
Jerry Friedman 28 Oct 97 - 11:11 PM
Earl 28 Oct 97 - 11:57 PM
Joe Offer 29 Oct 97 - 01:24 AM
Helen 29 Oct 97 - 08:33 AM
dani 29 Oct 97 - 10:40 AM
Bill D 29 Oct 97 - 10:54 AM
Nonie Rider 29 Oct 97 - 01:17 PM
DWDitty 29 Oct 97 - 02:02 PM
Bert 29 Oct 97 - 02:28 PM
Whippoorwill 29 Oct 97 - 03:41 PM
Sheye 29 Oct 97 - 04:54 PM
Jon W. 29 Oct 97 - 06:58 PM
LaMarca 29 Oct 97 - 07:02 PM
Barry 29 Oct 97 - 09:40 PM
Speed-1 30 Oct 97 - 02:37 AM
Joe Offer 30 Oct 97 - 02:54 AM
Speed-1 30 Oct 97 - 03:13 AM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 30 Oct 97 - 07:15 PM
Will 30 Oct 97 - 08:03 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 30 Oct 97 - 09:52 PM
rich r 30 Oct 97 - 11:26 PM
LaMarca 31 Oct 97 - 12:02 PM
Joe Offer 31 Oct 97 - 04:06 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 31 Oct 97 - 05:18 PM
Bert 31 Oct 97 - 11:06 PM
Joe Offer 31 Oct 97 - 11:07 PM
Dale Rose 11 Dec 97 - 03:05 AM
Dale Rose 11 Dec 97 - 03:18 AM
Joe Offer 11 Dec 97 - 03:42 AM
Jaxon 11 Dec 97 - 08:48 AM
Nonie Rider 11 Dec 97 - 06:34 PM
Ron 13 Dec 97 - 01:10 AM
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Subject: Saccarine Overload
From: Shula
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 08:42 PM

Dear Mudcaddicts,

There was a thread a little while back about songs to ditch, but it never got REALLY mean. How about a list of truly terrible, treacle-drippin,' "treasures." (Bound to kick up a row with this'un!) We can call it "Songs to 'heave up' on." Could we sink much lower than the "Barney" theme? "Today"? "People"? Go for it!

Shula


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 08:54 PM

Muskrat Love! Anything but Muskrat Love!


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Akiba
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 09:10 PM

Dear Tim,

You may have won this dubious competition right out of the starting gate. I'm a man of strong stomach, but I get green just thinking about "ML." I have it! Someone should write a parody and call it "Mudcat Love." ANYTHING would be an improvement!

Akiba


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 11:49 PM

Oh!! Another highly personal,fraught with ennui thread, which will set friend against friend, husband against wife; sparking debates not seen since Elsie last castigated some hapless seeker of 'rock' lyrics!!!! ok..sure...*grin*...
....(are the following as bad as "Barney"..well, I am able to avoid the 'Barney' song...but these and some others are, or have been, ubiquitious in 'folk' circles I have known...)

"Circle of the Sun" by Sally Rogers (interesting for 2 verses...then drivel!)

"Waltzing with Bears"...*dodging shoes and spare appliances*...so, sue me..maybe it's just my lost childhood speaking..

"I Wish I Had Someone to Love Me"....a serious sentiment, but syrupy and heavy-handed...and often sung as if it needs a calliope accompaniment

"Give Me the Roses While I Live"...actually, it is not 'terrible', but every verse is the same...and it really pales by #3...(sort of nice tune...I will play autoharp to it..)

saving this one till last in this batch-so I can run for the door as the maddened whoops of rage from the 'anything Bill Staines does is wonderful' fan club echo down the halls....

"All God's Critters Got a Place in the Choir"...even I was bemused by THIS one ...once..and half of twice..and I admit, it is fun for the kids-but I will NOT clap & flap my hands, or arms...or 'anything I got' no more...

....well, now that I have THAT out of my system, I think I'll go picket Disneyland...or put on a sheet and burn some crosses....or heckle the Salvation Army Band..something non-controversial..

*he drifts away into the night, wondering how deep he has dug himself in this time.......*


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 12:43 AM

Gosh, Bill, you smashed some of my icons there. There are shards of broken idols scattered all over the floor.
Well, heck, if you're going to do that, SMASH!!!! There goes everything written by Rod McKuen, one of my ex-wife's favorites. Gee, that feels good!
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Shula
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 02:02 AM

Does the name "Manilow" make you grab the sea-sick pills and prepare to sacrifice to the porcelain goddess?

Shula


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: alison
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 05:58 AM

Hi

Someone mentioned Disney. My vote goes to "It's a small world." My hubby and I went to Disney World and just happened to be going past the ride when there was no queue, so we thought we'd give it a go. Approximately 10 seconds into the ride we were seriously considering jumping ou of the boat and swimming for it! They played that awful song the whole time......Aaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!

slainte

Alison


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Helen
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 07:19 AM

Hi all, There are plenty of songs which will make me run for cover, but one of the worst is Ralph McTell's Streets of London. It's out for both counts: every verse is the same, same, same, and the sentiments are so trite. I can't see how people can get so excited when they decide to sing it, as if it is the best song ever written.

If you want to see me leave the room in a cloud of dust though, get a backyard poet to start reading his/her verses.

Now for true confessions - but don't send me a compilation on tape! - I don't know most of the songs you have mentioned so far. Maybe a few thousand(?) miles of Pacific Ocean has protected us Aussies from most of them, except Manilow of course.

Helen, in Oz P.S. Shula, I finally sent you that e-mail (pat myself on the back for finally fulfilling a chatroom promise :-) )


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Bert
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 08:55 AM

"I did it my way" tops my hit list.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Barbara
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 09:54 AM

"Don't Sell Daddy Anymore Whiskey" deserves extinction.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Jon W.
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 12:40 PM

How about "Puff the magic Dragon." Sorry, but I have an aversion to made up place names like Honalee.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Jon W.
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 12:43 PM

Oooh- I almost forgot (wish I had). Not to speak ill of the dead, but how about John Denver's "Annie's Song" You fill up my senses--like a kick in the stomach...


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 01:50 PM

Oh! Yes, Jon, Helen & alison..If it had not been so late when I purged myself earlier, "Puff.." and "Streets of London" would certainly have been on my list- and I am convinced that .."small world..." would also have ME swimming!....and I confess that "Whisky on a Sunday" (is that the correct title for the one about 'old Seth Davies'?) is beginning to feel just like "Streets of London"...perhaps some of these get on my list due to heavy over-exposure and schmaltzy performances, but there IS such a thing as 'good poetry' and 'bad poetry'

and, Helen...I have debated within myself some of Henry Lawsons poems lately set to music..in particular "Do You Think That I Do Not Know"...it just 'barely' remains ok in my judgement...some of the verses get pretty sticky, but somehow overall, it is a pretty powerful piece...maybe it's jusy my mood of the moment...

and Joe Offer, as I typed last night...I knew I was hitting you pretty hard...but cheer up...the Super Glue of your enthusiasm will mend those shattered icons in no time.I never believe for a second that my prejudices will affect anyone elses notions of what songs are fun. (TRUE STORY--at a sing a few years ago, a friend had decided to sing 'Waltzing With Bears'...and just before she began, she whipped a pair of heavy-duty, earmuff type, hearing protectors from her bag and put them on me for the duration of the song..!!)


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: DWDitty
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 04:36 PM

YOU LIGHT UP MY LIFE - Arrgh.
I AM..I SAID-There I go talking to the furniture again.
I NEVER PROMISED YOU A ROSE GARDEN

Ad Nauseum


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: rechal
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 04:44 PM

Anything by Bobby Goldsboro. Particularly about dead wives of Bobby Goldsboro.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Helen
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 06:03 PM

Bill D I hope there aren't too many "dyed in the wool, true-blue Aussies" reading this, but I agree with you about Henry Lawson's poems. They tend to be pure soap opera as far as plot goes. "Do you think that I do not know" may escape most of that, because it is rumoured to have been written about the woman he secretly loved, while being married. It's soap opera plot in real life, I suppose, but I think that in this case his sentiments were real.

I like the story about the ear muffs ;->

I'm starting to recognise some of these songs now, so keep it going.

Also, have a look at Akiba's alternative thread about halloween songs (soory forgotten the thread name)

Helen


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Sheye
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 06:04 PM

No, please -- not "Born in the USA" !!

Jon W. - I grew up in Donnelly, so we just changed it to that.

There is also a gruesome Brian Adams number: "have you ever really loved a woman". To go back to explain, the Canadian government makes radio stations play a set minimum of Canadian tunes, but don't specify that they should actually be something worth listening to, and as usual, any song heard dozens of times a day, day in and day out, can drive a person to (?).

Oops, not folk (again, Sheye, pick it up, girl)! The beatings will now begin...


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Helen
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 06:08 PM

Sorry, can't spell "sorry" :-) Helen


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 11:11 PM

Second the motion on "Annie's Song" (three One two three One, One) and "You Light up my Life". (And what was a nice Christian girl like Ms. Boone doing singing "It can't be wrong if it feels so right"?)

On the other hand, some of these candidates are ones I learned in childhood and still have good feelings about, such as "Puff the Magic Dragon" and "Today". Also on the other hand, I don't see much saccharine about "Born in the U.S.A." Though Bruce did try to have it both ways--some people sing along with the chorus and some listen to the verses.

We've left the whole Streisand vein unmined. What about "People who Need People"? And for sheer absurdity, what about the surf-music songs about cars? But the winner of the Saccharine Sweepstakes has to be "Sugar Sugar".


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Earl
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 11:57 PM

How about Up With People and their wonderful theme song "Up With People."

Does anyone remember "Hey Hey Paula" by Paul and Paula?


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 01:24 AM

Gee, I dunno here. The icons have been smashed. The sacred cows have been lead to slaughter. Is there any music left that we're allowed to like?
Personally, I think we're all in need of a regular dose of schmaltz. It's what keeps us human. Expressions of warmth and emotion do tend to be a little syrupy, and the songs that are close to our own hearts are often the very ones others consider maudlin.
Now, in total honesty, I must admit that I regularly sing songs I think are horribly tasteless. I sing in a choir in a Catholic church. In fact, I sing in TWO church choirs, and both of them sing a lot of bad music. And if the music isn't bad, then the lyrics are theologically unsound. I joined the choirs because I disagreed with their selection of music, and I thought I could improve things better from within. As it turns out, I find I've had to compromise my values and sing what people want to hear. I am able to get rid of the very worst hymns, but I sometimes find myself liking songs I once hated.
My basic point is that I think we should use caution in our criticism. If people like a song, if it moves them, I see no need to burst their balloon. Music is a wonderful tool for expressing what's within our hearts. Our most heartfelt songs are often far from perfect in artistic quality, but that's OK.
But I still hate Rod McKuen.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Helen
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 08:33 AM

But Joe, Hate is such an *unchristian* emotion ;-> Helen


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: dani
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 10:40 AM

Joe, your point is well taken. In my church (Unitarian Universalist) there is a joke, "Why are Unitarian Universalists terrible singers? Because they're always looking ahead to see if they'll agree with the words!"

However, bad is bad. But for the sake of argument, could we hear from anyone who'd like to defend any of the above *gems*? I'll defend 'Sugar Sugar' - wasn't that a centerpiece of the old Archies phenom? Their records were on the backs of cereal boxes - 45's that you punched out of the cardboard to play. Bobby Sherman was another of these, as I recall. These were the first of my music collection! Though I like to think my taste has broadened some in the ensuing years, don't begrudge a fun start!

At the risk of alienating a nation, I'd like to submit the name (and voice, and all the songs) of Gordon (it's been good to know ya) Lightfoot.

Dani


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 10:54 AM

dani....then you probably know that old Unitarian hymn..."We Would Rather Not be Moved"


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 01:17 PM

Yeah, I'd give high votes to "You Light Up My Life," as well as (sorry!) "In the Living Years."

But then, I don't tend to go to movies billed as "Heartwarming" either.

(Ditto "Bittersweet," which means one of the main characters dies AND it's supposed to be heartwarming...)


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: DWDitty
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 02:02 PM

Being raised as a Unitarian, we often prayed:

"God, if there is a God, have mercy on my soul, if I have a soul."


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Bert
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 02:28 PM

Dani,

I'll stick my neck out and defend "Streets of London" for several reasons....
1. That's where I was born.
2. I think we need to do something about the homeless.
3. I can "SEE" that old man in the all night cafe.
4. It reminds me of the song "While London Sleeps" which is even more of a tear jerker and was certainly part of Ralph Mctell's cultural heritage. I like to imagine that it was running through his mind when he wrote "Streets of London"
5. At time when it seems too sentimental I think that it is partly because it stirs up some guilt feelings for too often ignoring the homeless.

Bert.

P.S. and lay off of Gordon Lightfoot ;-)


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Whippoorwill
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 03:41 PM

Since we're reduced to being sacriligeous, I have to admit that anything by La Streisand sends me to the lee rail; ditto everything Elvis recorded after he left Sun Records. Hell would be listening to those two sing duets down through eternity. AAAARRRRRGHHH!


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Sheye
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 04:54 PM

Just bought Gordon Lightfoot's "If You Could Read my Mind" CD and listened to "Sit Down, Young Stranger". Twice. Confessions of the quiet one in the corner...we still buds, dani?


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Jon W.
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 06:58 PM

I don't know much about Gordon Lightfoot, just "the wreck..." but what about Neil Diamond -- "Song Sung Blue", musically about as far from the blues as you can get -- "Turn on your Heart Light" -- If I'd been ambitions in 1982 I could'a made a fortune selling "E.T. Go Home" bumper stickers...


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: LaMarca
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 07:02 PM

Joe, as a confessed very Ex-Catholic, one of my top votes for abominations goes to "The Cannibal Song"(my name for it) sung in folk-masses in the late 60's-early 70's. You know the one, the bouncy little melody with the words:
    Sons of God, hear His holy Word,
    Gather round the table of the Lord,
    Eat His body, drink His blood,
    And we'll sing a song of love,
    Hallelu, hallelu, hallelu, halleloo-oojah...
A couple of my friends who survived Catholic school and I performed this little number at a "Folk Nerds From Hell" theme party a few years ago, and won a prize for true tastelessness. We had trouble convincing the other people it WASN'T a parody...

My votes for icky folk saccharine are for songs that people do REALLY seriously, (rather than tongue in cheek, recognizing the treacliness; it's kinda like the difference between putting up Pink Plastic Flamingos as a joke, and putting them up because you think they're a truly beautiful decorating statement...For instance, I've never heard anyone do Henry Clay Work's "Father, Dear Father, Come Home" as though they REALLY believed in its deep pathos and temperence message...). I've appended my rather cynical renditions of the songs' messages, or my inner responses to them while they're being sung (I hope my shrink doesn't see this).

Streets of London -"Your problems can't possibly be real because these folks are worse off, so stop whining"
Gathering Flowers for the Master's Bouquet - "Hey Gabriel, go pick me few more; these are looking kinda wilted..."(sorry, Rita)
I Wish I Had Someone to Love Me - so go take out a personals ad or something!
Lovely Agnes - (I'm surprised you forgot this one, Bill) nice story, sicky sweet song formerly overdone in our area
Once, Just Once, in a Very Blue Moon - about as often as I want to hear this song...
From a Distance - where I want to be when someone is earnestly trying to sing this song...

Non-folk drippers:

Honey, by Bobby Goldsboro - some comedian, maybe Carole Burnett, did a hilarious skit of the husband giving guided tours through "Honey's" house, with the wrecked car in the living room, and other touching mementoes...
Billy, Don't Be a Hero
any of the dead teenager songs - Teen Angel, Leader of the Pack, D.O.A., etc.
I Am Woman - a pseudo-feminist anthem
I've Been to Paradise (But I've Never Been to Me) - an anti-feminist anthem
You're Having My Baby - AArrggggh!
anything by The Carpenters - Close To You, We've Only Just Begun, etc.
anything by Bread (although my heart gushed over them when I was 13; now my stomach turns) - The Diary, If a Picture Paints a Thousand Words (Then Why Can't I Paint You?), etc.

You have to realize this response is coming from someone who really likes Bertold Brecht, Richard Thompson and other doom-and-gloom cynics; remember, a pessimist is never un-pleasantly surprised...


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Barry
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 09:40 PM

Maybe you'll all get a little bored with this stuff & try some of that traditional, what 'd they call it, folk stuff that's been going round these days. Barry


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Speed-1
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 02:37 AM

All right all you mean spirited cranky people, (people who need people), I am going to stand up in the midst of you jaded intellectuals and ask," Can't we all just get along?"

I like, no darnit, I LOVE-

Muskrat Love
Carpenters
Gordon Lightfoot
Barry Manilow
The Barney song
Neil Diamond
John Denver
Puff the Magic Dragon
Barbra Streisand
Unitarians
London, England
Disneyland
Motherhood
Apple Pie
The Constitution of the United States
Right Turns on red after coming to a complete stop
Infomercials by Ron Popiel and Tony Robbins
The theme to Final Jeopardy
New York in June
Waltzing Matilda (Billy bong and all!)

My oldest daughter has read my list and insists I stop so she can sign on and disavow any knowledge of my existence (does that make her a figment of my non-existence?)

Speed


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 02:54 AM

LaMarca, No!!! Not the dead teenager songs!! Before you do away with them, give a listen to Steve Goodman's medley. You'll see those songs in a whole new light. He had a great time hamming it up on "Tell Laura I Love Her." Those songs are so funny, and so much fun to sing.
Well, at least I'm glad nobody started picking on girl group songs. I do a great falsetto on "Soldier Boy." It ruins my voice for a week but it's such fun. We have a subgroup of our church choir who call themselves "The Extremes" - they do girl group songs for non-liturgical occasions. They let me fill in when one of the girls is missing.
You were my first love
And you'll be my last love
I will always love you, boy
I'll be true to you
In this whole world
You can love but one girl
Let me be that one girl
An I'll be true to you.
But I refuse to do it in drag, and I insist on doing "Chantilly Lace" afterwards to get my male self-respect back.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Speed-1
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 03:13 AM

Dear Joe-

Thanks for UNBOLDING me. I was frantically trying to find how to fix it, and you jumped in and saved my tush -

Now how do I tell you that I once liked Rod McKuen (I think I have outgrown him, but your reason for hating him is visceral).

Speed


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 07:15 PM

I don't know that Waltzing With Bears is very sacchrine. It is just a kid's song. I thought we were talking about Supersacchrine Songs and Dead Puppy Laments.

Truth be told, many people like overly-sentimental songs, or what to my ear sounds like an overly- sentimental song. What is overly sentimental in a song is a matter of opinion, I suppose, just as what is overly sweet in a wine. People who are constantly hugging and kissing and being nice to each other have a higher tolerance for this kind of thing. Being alone, sour, and defensive of personal space, I am not one such person.

I defend Streets of London. It's a sad song, but not over done. I see these people all the time, staring into their coffees at restaurants, old and lonely. And there is nothing wrong with telling people to stop their whining. ( If you don't like this song, then you may as well add "Hello In There" to the list.) It's probably that one hears it so often by second-rate singers, and the rhyme scheme is off in one of the verses.

"My Way" is not sugary, just vain boastfulness. Sugar Sugar by The Archies was bubblegum, and bubblegum is supposed to be sweet. What do they listen to now? Rap and Death Metal, screeching and pounding and gutteral calls for violence and cruelty. Give me kids listening to Sugar, Sugar any day.

Maybe I don't like Muskrat Love because I don't like muskrats, or any other similar rodent vermin. I have to say "Honey" is probably the best nomination on this list yet, a five-star stinker if ever there was one.

What about that song about the boy and his dog? "When I was a boy, I had a dog ---- Shep? Shemp?" Over the meadows and all that.

Can't think of any traditional songs that fall into this category.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Will
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 08:03 PM

Here's another voice that likes Gordon Lightmetre (he changed his name when Canada went metric a few years back), or at least a lot of him. And Streets of London is fine, if a bit earnest.

While the Goldsboro doesn't appear to have much redeeming musical value, there appears to be someone out there who can stomache the schmaltz, so who knows ....


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 09:52 PM

There must surely be a vast list of country-and-western songs that fall into this category, but for the life of me I can't think of any titles at this time. Mommas, and dogs, and weeping sweethearts and letters home from Viet Nam -- didn't Merl Haggard have such a song about a letter from a POW camp?

Any Victorian songbook would also yield up a list of dreadful tear-jerkers, but I assume the songs have to be current to qualify.

Then there are those pop "ballads" sung at weddings by earnest young ladies, usually cousins of the bride, accompanied by a somewhat out of tune piano. This might be part of the reason why I have remained a bachelor for all these years. Torture! That confounded song about a rose is heard every time two people tie the knot, and more recently, that one about being someone's hero and wind beneath the wings and whatnot. Whatever happened to good old classical sacred music, and choirs and pipe organs? If I was a priest or parson, I'd ban all such secular, AM radio caterwauling from God's House. (I've never been to a Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or Buddist wedding, so I don't know what they do.)


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: rich r
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 11:26 PM

I'll juump in with agreement on the wedding syrup, kind of sticks to your beard and won't go away.

I probably have to attribute a lot of my biases to my childhood circumstances (it's not my parents fault, rip). I had forgotten all about Bread, and was quite content to leave it that way. ACtually the first couple times I heard "Diary" I actually thought they were singing "dairy". Made sense to me, growing up in Wisconsin where yellow colored margarine was illegal and my uncle would make an occasional run to Illinois and load up the trunk with contraband, bread and butter, bread and dairy, quite logical. The same surrounding leads me to defend "Lovely Agnes". I lived my first `6 years on the shore of Lake Michigan. The subject of the song was the first woman chemistry major from the University of Wisconsin. I was a biology and chemistry major in college. I got my molecular biology degree at the University of Wisconsin. I have fond memories of trips to the cherry orchards. That song is not nutra sweet, it's about the old home.

I think the consensus here is that Gordon Lightfoot stays, and he should. About the only LIghtfoot I don't really care for are his pre-"folk singer" efforts to become a Canadian country singer (actually made the charts with one). Besides my childhood again (you don't mess with the childhood of someone over 50). One of my favorite books at home when I was about 8 was the adventure of a deer named (ta da) Lightfoot. Again perfectly logical.

One final thought on "Waltzing With Bears". I have watched loved ones suffer and die with Alzheimer's disease. To me WWB describes their plight and is more than a kids song. "Dancing With Wolves" is another story however.

byenow

rich r


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: LaMarca
Date: 31 Oct 97 - 12:02 PM

I love 50's-early 60's girl-group and doo-wop stuff, Joe (although I'm a little young to have heard it as it was happening)! All of the early King/Goffin, Lieber/Stoller or Phil Specter stuff is great fun. Tim, you reminded me of one of my favorite dead dog songs,"Why Won't You Send My Dog Home, Uncle Sam?", the pathetic tale(tail?) of the little blind boy who sends his dog off to WWII; I think it was a Hank Snow hit...I don't want to get rid of this one, even though it qualifies as Nutra-Sweet™ material if done seriously; Bob Clayton in our neighborhood does an excellent job of walking the VERY fine line between campiness and drippiness when he sings it.

Rich R, I'm a cheesehead, too; we transplanted to Appleton from New Jersey when I was 9, and I remember Mom smuggling Blue Bonnet home from her parents' in Gary, Indiana to avoid having to buy that awful white stuff with the little yellow food color packets to mix in (the only form of margerine legal in Wisconsin in 1965). Guess that's why I always liked "The Female Smuggler". I am also a not-so-closet Light0.308meter fan; I defy anyone to call "Black Day in July" saccharine.

I think the element of artificial sweetener (remember cyclamates? Can you still get them in Canada?) enters into any of these songs when they are done by mediocre singers who take them dead seriously. For example, a good singer can communicate the original emotion of a Victorian music hall song to an audience without descending into smarminess (listen to Maggie Pearse or David Jones sometime), while a bad singer can ruin even the best written emotional song.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Oct 97 - 04:06 PM

Well, it really ticks me off that although I call Wisconsin home, I can't be considered a true Wisconsinite since I didn't move there until I was ten. The "Lovely Agnes" song seems backwards to me, since I left the city life of Detroit to live near the cows and the truck farms on the western shore of Lake Michigan. It was a good place to grow up. The strawberries and sweet corn were terrific. I think "Lovely Agnes" and "Edmund Fitzgerald" are nice enough, but I believe the Great Lakes deserve better songs than those. An area so remarkable deserves songs that are remarkable.
I guess I have to confess to being a "true Californian," since most Californians are like me and weren't born here. I've lived in California since 1973, but I still don't quite feel like it's home.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 31 Oct 97 - 05:18 PM

But what was the song about the dog named Shep? It has been bothering me all day.

I submit that anything by Red Sovine automatically qualifies for the list.


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Subject: Lyr Add: OLD SHEP
From: Bert
Date: 31 Oct 97 - 11:06 PM

Old Shep

When I was a lad, Old Shep was a pup
Over fields and meadows we strayed
Just a boy with his dog, we were both full of fun
we grew up together that way

I remember the time at the old swimming hole
When I would have drowned, beyond doubt
Old Shep was right there, to the rescue he came
He jumped in and helped pull me out

The years fast did roll, Old Shep he grew old
his eyes were fast growing dim
one day the doctor looked at me and said
I can't do no more for him Jim

With Hands that were trembling, I picked up my gun
I aimed it at Shep's faithfull head
I just couldn't do it, I thought I would run
I wished they would shoot me instead

Old shep he has gone, where the good doggies go
no more with Old Shep will I roam
but if dog's have a heaven there's one thing I know
Old Shep has a wonderful home.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Oct 97 - 11:07 PM

"Old Shep" is a Sacred Elvis Ballad, Tim. After Elvis blows Sheps head off, it ends this way:
Old Shep, he has gone where the good doggies go
No more with Old Shep will I roam
But if dogs have a heaven, there's one thing I know
Old Shep has a wonderful home.
Now, if you want the rest of it, you'll have to go to Cowpie. I've got tears dripping onto my keyboard, and I just can't bring myself to type any more.
Sob!!!
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Dale Rose
Date: 11 Dec 97 - 03:05 AM

Recently in one of the threads, the really sad, morbid, sentimental type things were being discussed, but I can't find it, so I am putting this here, being the closest I can find. It was probably one of those threads that started out in one direction, then made a sharp zag into parts unrelated.

While going through old sheet music as part of my job today, I ran across this one: For Sale-A Baby by Charles K. Harris, 1903. In it, the mother is lamenting the fact that she has no money to feed her dear little child, so she puts a sign in the window, "For Sale-A Baby". The passerbys all look and smile as they go by, but none stop to investigate. The child sickens and dies, and so does the mother. Right offhand, I can't think of many of the dead baby songs that can top that. Another one in the same genre that I saw today was The Fisherman And His ChildI rather imagine that you can write the script for that one yourself.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Dale Rose
Date: 11 Dec 97 - 03:18 AM

Now that I have that one out of the way, let me put in a plug for Maura O'Connell doing Maggie~~great sentimental song, done with sincerity and style by an outstanding vocalist who doesn't get nearly enough credit for her talent. Check your PBS schedule for the program, Gael Force, during pledge time. Maura sings it with DeDannan near the beginning of the program. There are many other highlights, including Maura O'Connell, Elanor Shanley, Tommy Fleming, and Mary Black doing Hard Times Come Again No More, the best version I have ever heard.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Dec 97 - 03:42 AM

Dale, do you think you can post the lyrics of those dead baby songs? I think we'd get a kick out of them.
Now generally, I like the sentimentality in Stephen Foster songs. A couple of weeks ago, I got an overdose. I visited the Stephen Foster museum in Florida, a concrete block replica of a plantation house, built in the 1950's where the Suwannee River hits the Interstate. The museum had dioramas depicting the most popular Foster songs, with motorized slaves picking cotton and a steamboat that actually moved. Truly tacky. Y'all oughta stop to visit. It's good for a laugh.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Jaxon
Date: 11 Dec 97 - 08:48 AM


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 11 Dec 97 - 06:34 PM

Having heard both major versions of Weela Wallia (however spelled), I gather there's a traditional crime ballad in which an unwed mother stabs her baby in the heart and is executed for it, and a farcical modern version in which she stabs the baby in the head (odd place to choose...), with wonderful klunker lines like "The moral of this story is/Don't stick a knife in t'babby's head."


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Ron
Date: 13 Dec 97 - 01:10 AM

How about any song that Kathy Lee Gifford might sing ?


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