mudcat.org: American National Anthem
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4]


American National Anthem

DigiTrad:
ANACREONTIC SONG (2)
THE STAR SPANGLED BANNER
TO ANACREON IN HEAVEN


Related threads:
US Natl Anthem: Other lyrics to tune? (39)
The Anacreontic Song (10)
Lyr Add: Star Spangled Banner (25)
Lyr Req: Star Spangle(d) Heaven (2)
(origins) Origins: Star Spangled Banner - Folk/Sea Shanty? (13)
US Nat'l Anthem in Spanish? (71)
eo:Pretty Little Horses / Star-Spangled -esperanto (6)
BS: Did They Change the National Anthem? (55)
BS: Between You and the National Anthem (2)


Spud Murphy 07 Mar 01 - 12:36 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Mar 01 - 08:42 PM
Joe Offer 06 Mar 01 - 03:30 PM
Irish sergeant 06 Mar 01 - 03:17 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 06 Mar 01 - 02:23 PM
catspaw49 06 Mar 01 - 02:15 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 06 Mar 01 - 02:14 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 06 Mar 01 - 02:11 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 06 Mar 01 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,Carol's Friend Don 06 Mar 01 - 12:29 PM
Chanteyranger 06 Mar 01 - 03:34 AM
En 06 Mar 01 - 12:35 AM
Mark Cohen 05 Mar 01 - 11:04 PM
Sarah2 05 Mar 01 - 09:39 PM
mousethief 05 Mar 01 - 09:25 PM
catspaw49 05 Mar 01 - 09:20 PM
Sarah2 05 Mar 01 - 09:10 PM
mousethief 05 Mar 01 - 09:09 PM
Sarah2 05 Mar 01 - 09:07 PM
mousethief 05 Mar 01 - 09:07 PM
catspaw49 05 Mar 01 - 09:01 PM
Sarah2 05 Mar 01 - 08:53 PM
mousethief 05 Mar 01 - 08:50 PM
Sarah2 05 Mar 01 - 08:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Mar 01 - 08:48 PM
Sarah2 05 Mar 01 - 08:46 PM
mousethief 05 Mar 01 - 08:43 PM
Irish sergeant 05 Mar 01 - 08:33 PM
Sarah2 05 Mar 01 - 08:25 PM
RedCelt 05 Mar 01 - 08:23 PM
mousethief 05 Mar 01 - 08:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Mar 01 - 08:00 PM
catspaw49 05 Mar 01 - 07:59 PM
Jeri 05 Mar 01 - 07:34 PM
mousethief 05 Mar 01 - 07:07 PM
Jeri 05 Mar 01 - 06:17 PM
mousethief 05 Mar 01 - 05:54 PM
Jeri 05 Mar 01 - 05:42 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 05 Mar 01 - 05:40 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 05 Mar 01 - 05:39 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 05 Mar 01 - 05:36 PM
Jeri 05 Mar 01 - 05:27 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 05 Mar 01 - 05:21 PM
Greg F. 05 Mar 01 - 05:19 PM
Jeri 05 Mar 01 - 05:18 PM
Jeri 05 Mar 01 - 05:13 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 05 Mar 01 - 05:04 PM
mousethief 05 Mar 01 - 05:00 PM
mousethief 05 Mar 01 - 04:52 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 05 Mar 01 - 04:48 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Spud Murphy
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 12:36 AM

Joe: "America, The Beautiful" is a wonderful song. I feel a swelling in my chest when I hear it sung or played. But there are other things having to do with our heritage that arouse pride in me. I fought under "The Star Spangled Banner" in WWII as my dad did before me in WWI. (I realize it was not the National Anthem in WWI, but there was none other, so in my mind it holds that distinction.)

I think what bothers me is 'breaking the mold', as you put it. Too many molds have been broken in my lifetime, and my backward-looking vision is that the world and the country are not made better for that. Automobiles, televisions, computers and Viagra are not the fundamental elements of Utopia. Nor is the extension of life into the eighties and beyond.

And most of all, I am disheartened by a corollary to the anthem argument which is the unthinking and misguided concept that I should share in the hysterical culpability fervor that is supposed to expunge America's terrible guilt for its heinous disregard for human life. And for who's benefit? Not mine, by a damn site. I haven't been able to play a violin since I was seventeen years old because some damn Jap stuck a bayonet in my left hand. Who is going to apologize to me for that? I'm getting carried away here. Time to quit.

I love America. I love our anthem. I love our flag.

Spud


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 08:42 PM

National anthems seem to be mostly divided between those which are a bit militaristic, and those which go on about the beautiful countryside and so forth.

On the whole I tend to prefer the militaristic ones, which tend to be more from the heart. I like SSB because it's not about conquest, it's about resistance and survival, and holding on by the skin of your teeth. A touch of "the Dunkirk spirit", not triumphalist at all really - I know that's not how it gets sung all too often, which is a pity.

Maybe the best national anthems have a touch of nonsense about them - as a child I assumed that Yankee Doodle was the American national anthem. The same way Dixie is a good one, especially with the words Carl Sandburg I had a horse, his name was Bill. And Waltzing Matilda is far better than Advance Australia Fair, Alouette would be a fine Canadian Anthem....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:30 PM

Well, I can sing "The Star-Spangled Banner," but I always goof up the tune on "The Internationale." Guess I'll have to work on that one.

It's not the tune of "Banner" I dislike. It's an interesting, stirring tune and the lyrics have an interesting story behind them - but it's so militaristic. It seems to me that most national anthems are militaristic - even "The Internationale" sounds militaristic in tone. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could break out of that mold and have anthems that celebrate peace and beauty and idealism? That's why I like "America the Beautiful."

-Joe Offer-



RedCelt, if you search our Digital Tradition database for anacreon, you'll find a couple versions of the song that is thought to be the source of the tune for "Star Spangled Banner." Click here for one and here for another. Mudcatter Dave Swan belongs to a group called Oak, Ash, and Thorn - one of their CD's has a nice recording of "To Anacreon in Heaven."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:17 PM

TOm: I stand corrected. I do the insert thing myself. I was objecting to the classification of Scotland as a third world nation. What I should have said is; in spite of not having it's own government, Scotland has a rich culture and history and should be considered a nation under occupation. Not neccessarily in an evil way and it may be what the majority of Scots want but it is still dominated by a government in London rather than one seated in Edinburgh or Glasgow (Where my great grandfather was from I believe) Kindest reguards, Neil


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 02:23 PM

When I say that the people of Scotland, I talk about some Scottish People, as a member of the Scottish National Party who want freedom in Scotland, We don't consider that what we have is Scotland as Home rule.

What we have is a devovled parliment and a government, as I said before Tony Blair in London told the Scottish excutive in Edinburgh that they weren't allowed to call themselves a government why I'll never know.

The other parties are frightend of the S.N.P. because some of them don't independance in Scotland, they want to be told what to do be the London Governement.

You must remeber that this is just my view and no one else's.

So I hope that you'll understand what I'm saying and if I've upset anyone then I didn't mean it.

Talking about your National anthem, I think it should the red flag or Banderia Rossa, or even the internaitonale.

Well what you choose I hope that it's the right one for all of you whatever race, creed or colour you are. Tom


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 02:15 PM

Hell Tom, move here to the states. We don't have anything you can call a government either. We got a shrub if you like that kinda' thing though.........

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 02:14 PM

When I say that the Scots people, I'm talking about the people who voted for the Scottish National Party and not the other political parties in Scotland.

Mind you this is just my view

Tom. And as I said I don't want to start another flame war.

So I'll jst shut my mouth and say nothing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 02:11 PM

hello


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 01:37 PM

Hello it's me, the one who started all of this.

Now I don't want to start another one, however I don't know how to put this but the parliment of Scotland is being run by the Government in London, so the Scots people might have a parliment but we can't call it a goverment because the Labour party won't allow us to do.

So I'll be signing off now.

Goodbye Tom.

P.S. I thought that might let you know.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: GUEST,Carol's Friend Don
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 12:29 PM

Hey Mark, En, I'm an ol' kamaina myself. Went to Radford, which was long before they built Aiea High. (Bette Midler was our senior class president, a fact she never mentions in her official bio - doesn't fit with the rejected Jewish-Samoan angst). I lived on McGrew Point, which was called Hospital Point during WWII and was the sight point for the Jap planes on Dec 7. I remember them building the present Arizona Monument (the old one was just a wooden platform across the hulk). And the highest building on the island was the Royal Hawaiian (or Tripler Army Hospital). But I saw the Islands on my way back from 'Nam in 69 and Waikiki had gone to hell. Still, it was a great place to be a kid...Hawaii noe ka oi


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:34 AM

McGrath - It's the considered opinion of many in this country that our national anthem has an awkward melody. As a matter of fact, some music educators refer to it as an example of awkwardness. I disagree that it's no more difficult than the other anthems you mentioned, or that a change to America The Beautiful would be a dumbing down. We sing the Star Spangled Banner every month at our chantey sings, to open the second set. We always have to pitch it very low, so that the high notes can be reached by everyone. My belief is that a national anthem should have a melody that's both interesting - not overly simplified - and easily singable for its citizenry. I think the other ones you mentioned fit that category, as does America The Beautiful.

-chanteyranger


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: En
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 12:35 AM

I beg to differ. California is definitely not square. It is quite hip, in fact. Well, maybe just not square: they say someone shook the country and all the loose screws rolled west. The are the nuts and bolts of this great state. In the case of my family, emphasis on nuts.

Regarding our national sins: My students are refugees of China, Korea, Tibet, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Central America, and Russia (typical SF area population). We sing America the Beautiful in my classroom every day, right before we discuss the evils and repercussions of slavery, the legacy of Hiroshima, or American domination of indigenous peoples. All this is required by the State of California. Perhaps the world is so familiar with the sins of America because we are so free to admit them, without fear of our government. Admitting one has a problem is the first step on the road to change.

Aloha, Mark--I used to live in Aeia, HI--only town in the US whose name is vowels only.

--En


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 11:04 PM

Alex, you can't blame the Easterners for getting confused about Western geography. The states are all squares, for gosh sakes! It's like one of those little puzzles where you push the squares around and try to get the numbers in order. They're all interchangeable! Why don't you have nice sensible irregular borders, so the states all stay put?

Aloha,
Mark
(who grew up in Pennsylvania and lived in some of those West Coast states and now lives in Hawaii where the US Government really did annex an independent ally at the bidding of a few rich merchants--in fact, why don't we make "Aloha Oe" the national anthem? Or maybe "I Wanna Go Back to My Little Grass Shack in Kealekekua Hawaii (Where the Humuhumunukunukuapua'a Goes Swimming By)"?)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Sarah2
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:39 PM

Spaw,

Oh, gawd, now my stomach hurts! LOL!

Sarah


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:25 PM

Beats the hell out of me. Something about some song, I think.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:20 PM

Hey!!! I got it!! Let's replant some giant redwoods to Montana and bring is a few dirty factories too. But we'll lie and say its all in Idaho and staffed by folks from New York.

What the hell was this thread about anyway?

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Sarah2
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:10 PM

Alex, I did read it...just that, from the sterotypical understanding, you must be going to California then, so you can take out a few redwoods.

Okay, it was weak...

Sarah


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:09 PM

The paramilitary compounds are in IDAHO, dammit. You people from "back east" are all a bunch of nincompoops when it comes to West Coast geography. Hell, Spaw, just because Ohio is next-door to Maine doesn't mean you have to be an idjit!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Sarah2
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:07 PM

Spaw, we call that "creative reality..." here. See the Achievable Affirmation thread.

Sarah (and her pet New Yorker)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:07 PM

You obviously didn't read my post.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:01 PM

Its OK Alex, just climb back up to the paramilitary compound on the ridge there in the great NW and try to forgive Sarah from Texas, where lip movement is a first indicator of lying. We'll just leave Jeri out of it, living there amongst the tall factory stacks in her tiny worker's shack.

Spaw (in Ohio where there is..........uh,.....er,uh........hmmmm.........well crap.......just BLAND NOTHIN'!!!!..........what a drag..............)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Sarah2
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:53 PM

All those poor redwoods.

Sarah


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:50 PM

Sarah, you've lost me. I haven't made a trek to California for over 13 years, and the one before that was when I was 10 years old. What on earth are you talking about?

Alex


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Sarah2
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:48 PM

Alex,

Please, please stop making those treks to Califonia...

Sarah


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:48 PM

Maybe it's a pity Flanders and Swann never got round new words for a few National Anthems. But here's what they did write a propos some of the matters touched on in this thread (From this excelent website I found when I went looking for this song):

A Song of Patriotic Prejudice

The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

The rottenest bits of these islands of ours
We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers
Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot
You'll find he's a stinker, as likely as not.

The Scotsman is mean, as we're all well aware
And bony and blotchy and covered with hair
He eats salty porridge, he works all the day
And he hasn't got bishops to show him the way!

The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

The Irishman now our contempt is beneath
He sleepes in his boots and he lies through his teeth
He blows up policemen, or so I have heard
And blames it on Cromwell and William the Third!

The English are noble, the English are nice,
And worth any other at double the price

The Welshman's dishonest and cheats when he can
And little and dark, more like monkey than man
He works underground with a lamp in his hat
And he sings far too loud, far too often, and flat!

And crossing the Channel, one cannot say much
Of French and the Spanish, the anish or Dutch
The Germans are German, the Russians are red,
And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed!

The English are moral, the English are good
And clever and modest and misunderstood.

And all the world over, each nation's the same
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
And they practice beforehand which ruins the fun!

The English, the English, the English are best
So up with the English and down with the rest.

It's not that they're wicked or natuarally bad
It's knowing they're foreign that makes them so mad!

For the English are all that a nation should be,
And the flower of the English are Donald (Michael)
Donald (Michael) and Me!

(Perhaps fortunately the song never got round to discussing the Americans...)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Sarah2
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:46 PM

Neil,

You're right, it did drag on for two years. I stand corrected.

Sarah


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:43 PM

There are no redwoods in the Northwest! The redwoods are down in Californi-yay. We have what we call cedars (they're really a type of cypress) and douglas-firs (which are not firs at all, nor spruces nor pines, but their own genus). See how confusing our local trees are? No wonder the owls are becoming extinct.

I do have a chainsaw, but it doesn't work because the oil-delivery mechanism is busted. I have no use for it, but I inherited it from my grandfather (who had no use for it either but that's another question!).

Alex


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:33 PM

Tom: Hopefully you read my above last in the frame I meant it in. I accept your apology and I believe you mistated a bit. In that I mean you may not have been as clear as you might have wished. Jeri Articulated my feelings better than I did I think. I apologise for that and offer my hand in friendship. Kindest reguards, Neil. PS The Mexican War started in 1846 and went to 1848. As stated above, Texas was a free republic and had been since 1836. Also as provisioned by the Treaty of Guadaloupe, Mexico was paid not only for California but for the areas encompassing New Mexico Arizona and Nevada. The war began as a border dispute namely over wheither the Rio Grande or the Nueces River was the border. Mexico had been approached dipolomatically before the incident but had declined U.S. offers to purchase the disputed areas mentioned above. Kindest reguards, again, Neil


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Sarah2
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:25 PM

(Ya know, what really ticks me off is typing up a message, hitting submit, and having AOL disconnect me. Geez!)

busbitter,

Don't carry it around: Apology accepted, for my part. In fact, I can see how, read one way, the words of "The Star-Spangled Banner" could be heard as sounding arrogant indeed. If you'll cruise back over some of the posts, you'll find a lot of people, even here, don't think it's the best choice for a national anthem. (Me, I don't like the range it calls for, as there ivariably seems to be a thinning of the voices in any crowd when they're asked to hit those high notes on the line you dislike. And, of course, it always seems to be played in a key that calls for a mezzo-soprano to reach those notes. I tend to think of the lyrics as the expression of an ideal, something we struggle to attain, so they don't bother me.)

But I would ask you, please, to start to read your papers with a more cynical eye: they're written by people with their own agendas, papers are -- and God alone knows what some of those agendas are, beyond promoting "good copy." They do seem to love to sterotype us all. If I were to rely on the papers and news media for all my information about other areas of the world, I'd assume that Jeri lives in an industrial hellhole that stretches from the seacoast of Maine to Chicago; that Alex, being from the Northwest, keeps a chainsaw in the shed to cut down ancient redwoods in his spare time and dines on spotted owl. As I am in Texas, we can conclude that I can't read, let alone write, and am obviously having this typed by some visiting New Yorker who has taken pity on me. And you, a Scot, must steal cattle for a living, keep sheep and are dour and penny-pinching -- and you have one two-lane road running the length of Scotland. None of which is true. (Well, Alex might...no, no, surely not!)

Anyway, we all fire off something now and again that raises hackles and gets someone's ire up. You've taken it well: Come home; all is forgiven.

Sarah

P.S. Greg, were we quarreling? Of course "truce," you imperialist swine!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: RedCelt
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:23 PM

and now for something completely different...

If anyone reads this far down... At NTIF this last weekend, I heard someone sing a song that they say was the original tune to the Star Spangled Banner. It was a british drinking song that referred to the twining of Bacchus and Venus and seemed to be concerned with combining two great pastimes.. drinking and whoring

learning that our founders were more human every day...

Jeff


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:04 PM

Golly, McGrath, too bad we can't all be as well-adjusted as you are. Tell me again what brand of Scotch you drink?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:00 PM

I still say that if I was an American, I'd get much more pissed off at people mangling a fine national anthem than getting upset and taking personally generalisations about my country.

If someone says something rude about me and it's true, I've no right to get upset about it. And if it's not true, it's not really about me, and I've no reason to get upset. I might want to set the record straight, but that's a wholly different thing.

Generalisations and stereotypes about other countries are always going to be largely false, whether they are flattering or insulting. And the impression I've got is that Americans are just as prone to make them as anyone else. I really don't think most of us give a damn when they do, but maybe that's a generalisation too far.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 07:59 PM

Busbitter me lad..........I think that though Jeri phrased some of this quite well, it is incumbent upon me, Spaw, who farts a lot and lives in a small town in Ohio, that Jeri, who plays fiddle and lives in a small town in New Hampshire, does bite.

Since everything else seemed to be cleared up I felt it was important to get this out too.

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 07:34 PM

Whoops - my apology for continually spelling busbitter's name wrong.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 07:07 PM

That sounds right, Jeri. Thanks for articulating it for us.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 06:17 PM

It's being seen as a thing instead of an individual. It's prejudice - judging people based on how you think they are instead if finding out how they really are. It's thinking that people who possess one particular quality all have great rhythm and like fried chicken, or maybe they like to drink a lot and eat potatoes, or maybe they all swagger, carry guns and think they own the world. It's about not seeing me as Jeri, who lives in a small town in New Hampshire, plays fiddle and who did NOT vote for George Bush, but seeing me as a stereotypical American.

When busbiter wrote "And then you go and tell other governments who to run their countries, when you lot had slavery, and you still in some parts of the ones who want to bring back slavery to your country," he was talking to me, and every other American reading the message.

I've never told a government how to run their country. My government may have, but not me. I also had no more responsibility for slavery than anyone else alive today. I can't make the KKK and skinheads go away, and I sure as hell didn't create them.

So I hear "you" and I assume he's talking to me, and blaming me for all those things.

Busbiter didn't upset the American nation - he upset me - Jeri, who lives in New Hampshire, plays fiddle and didn't vote for Bush. I get upset because I want to be treated like a human being, and I get irritated when I'm treated like a nameless thing in a big lump called "Americans."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:54 PM

Jeri, let us all know. I don't understand why *I* get so upset about it. But I do.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:42 PM

Feel free to PM me if you really don't understand why people got so upset. (It wasn't about you insulting America - we Americans do that all the time.) I don't bite. I'm also a lot better at explaining how I feel about things than arguing about them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:40 PM

Thank you for understanding what I was saying Jeri

Tom


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:39 PM

Thank you for that message Jeri.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:36 PM

thank you jeri


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:27 PM

Tom, if this was just one big misunderstanding, forget it. Perhaps we can all learn something from it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:21 PM

I never said that all Amercans were Evil, I think that most of you lot are great guys, if I have upset the American nation by saying the things I said then I'm sorry. Please don't think that I'm a racist, it's the way that here in Scotland that's the way that some of us were brought up.

I'm just an ignorant man and I don't know better, maybe I should just shut up and say nothing against Americans or any other country, because they will take offence as well.

TO ALL AMERICANS EVERYWHERE

I AM SORRY

I just say the truth the way I see it.

I just blurt out without thinking, I din't mean to start this flame war, as someone put it, I just wanted to say what I felt at the time. And obvious this has upset all Americans, I know I'll just stop writing now because all I'm doing is digging a great big hole for myself.

So I'll see you I hope in the future, and I think that your counrty is great.

I don't think that I'm greater than you lot.

I not and never will be. So it's good bye from me Tom Hamilton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:19 PM

No problem, Sarah- never claimed to be an expert on Texican History, so I've got some brushing up to do. Truce in the meantime?

If the Mexican War was a war of imperialism, then why isn't Mexico a part of the United States? Believe it had a great deal to do with the Wilmot Proviso & the northern & Free Soil & Abolition elements' opposition to acquisition of additional territories south of "Mason and Dixon's Line" where slavery could be extended. Even 'American Imperialists' aren't always entirely successful!  :-)

Best, Greg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:18 PM

Tom, it's not "political correctness." I think maybe you haven't run into much prejudice and may not understand it. At least I hope that's the case.

You said "I just want to be treated as a human being and not the scum that you think I am." That's what I should have written in reply to your first post.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:13 PM

Where we got the idea...please re-read your first post and think about who you meant by "you." It's fairly clear to me you were talking about all of us - I don't think I misunderstood. You did it again in your last post - "so I don't know where you lot get this idea..." Who, specifically, were you talking to?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:04 PM

I never said that all americans were evil, I really don't beleive that for one minute, You have great and good people in America as well. As we do here in Scotland.

However if you want to think that this is my view of all aAmericans then I'm sorry you're wrong.

I'm just an ignorant person from Scotland, and what I'm saying what I've read in the papers or heard on the news here in Scotland.

As for starting a 'flame war' I never did want to start a flame war.

I just wanted to put my on opinions down, and if you think that I'm a racist, then I'm a racist. And I'm sorry for that however that's the way that I was brought up.

That's the way some of us think in Scotland, we don't have your political correctness ideals as you do over there. I just want to be treated as a human being and not the scum that you think I am. Tom Hamilton I just beleive in tell the truth as I see it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:00 PM

Sorry; I meant OUR national bird. Bad fingers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 04:52 PM

Thanks, Tom. If we ever need your advice on your national bird, or on the design of our currency, we'll phone you.

Alex


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: American National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 04:48 PM

I accept your remarks, and I never said that All americans were evil, we have evil people here in Scotland as well, so I don't know where you lot get this idea that I think that all Americans are evil, there are some good American out as well.

As for the song, I think that you should have some type of song like If I had a hammer, or This land is your land, or that type of song. A song about brotherhood.

Goodbye Tom Hamilton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 6 August 8:57 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.