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Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?

Lin in Kansas 06 Jan 01 - 03:35 AM
bill\sables 06 Jan 01 - 06:07 AM
Bernard 06 Jan 01 - 08:41 AM
Lin in Kansas 06 Jan 01 - 10:52 AM
Bernard 06 Jan 01 - 11:50 AM
Musicman 06 Jan 01 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,Mark. West Sussex. UK 06 Jan 01 - 03:14 PM
GUEST,Liz 12 Jun 07 - 11:09 PM
JWB 12 Jun 07 - 11:56 PM
GUEST,Graham Bradshaw 13 Jun 07 - 04:34 AM
GUEST,Graham Bradshaw 13 Jun 07 - 04:36 AM
concertina ceol 13 Jun 07 - 04:47 AM
treewind 13 Jun 07 - 05:00 AM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 13 Jun 07 - 06:30 AM
TheSnail 13 Jun 07 - 06:51 AM
GUEST,kenny 13 Jun 07 - 06:59 AM
Tradsinger 13 Jun 07 - 07:24 AM
The Sandman 13 Jun 07 - 07:42 AM
Bernard 13 Jun 07 - 09:05 AM
EBarnacle 13 Jun 07 - 09:12 AM
Bernard 13 Jun 07 - 09:16 AM
Charley Noble 13 Jun 07 - 09:46 AM
Crane Driver 13 Jun 07 - 10:05 AM
The Sandman 13 Jun 07 - 10:09 AM
Lin in Kansas 13 Jun 07 - 11:08 AM
Alan Day 13 Jun 07 - 12:41 PM
Fidjit 13 Jun 07 - 02:07 PM
Alan Day 13 Jun 07 - 06:16 PM
The Sandman 13 Jun 07 - 06:29 PM
Tootler 13 Jun 07 - 06:47 PM
JWB 13 Jun 07 - 10:43 PM
The Sandman 14 Jun 07 - 05:47 AM
Tootler 14 Jun 07 - 07:25 AM
Alan Day 14 Jun 07 - 08:53 AM
GUEST,Brian Peters 14 Jun 07 - 09:47 AM
Greg B 14 Jun 07 - 03:11 PM
Tootler 14 Jun 07 - 07:05 PM
The Sandman 15 Jun 07 - 05:33 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 15 Jun 07 - 07:57 AM
Alan Day 15 Jun 07 - 08:35 AM
GUEST,martin ellison 15 Jun 07 - 08:50 AM
The Borchester Echo 15 Jun 07 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,martin ellison 15 Jun 07 - 09:20 AM
Greg B 15 Jun 07 - 02:17 PM
Surreysinger 15 Jun 07 - 02:27 PM
Surreysinger 15 Jun 07 - 02:30 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 16 Jun 07 - 02:18 AM
The Sandman 16 Jun 07 - 06:10 AM
TheSnail 16 Jun 07 - 06:24 AM
The Sandman 16 Jun 07 - 07:15 AM
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Subject: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 03:35 AM

I've recently become fascinated with concertinas and am considering buying one and learning to play. I've examined a 30-button Anglo and heard it played, but I've never seen an English concertina.

From what I've read, it seems to me the English would be easier for an ex-piano player to learn, since the buttons are arranged more like a keyboard than the Anglo's are, and you're only dealing with a single note on both push and pull, rather than a separate note for each like the Anglo.

I've also heard that the Anglo is used more for Celtic music, which I likely would not play a lot of--I love to listen to Irish, but would rather play/sing old-time, country, or bluegrass. And the English is supposed to be a better instrument for accompaniment.

I'm not planning to buy a vintage or antique instrument, and I don't want to spend very much money until I find out if I really like and want to learn it.

Any comments or opinions about which might be my best bet? I'd appreciate your expertise on this!

Lin


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: bill\sables
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 06:07 AM

Hi Lin, it is an old argument you have got yourself into Anglo players all say Anglo is best and English players say English is best. There will never be an answer, you have to see what suits you best. The Anglo notes run up the row on the left hand and down the row on the right hand with usually only two keys C/G it is true that the same button plays two notes depending on wether you pull or push in the same way as a harmonica plays two notes with a blow or suck. The English can be played in any key but the notes are placed on alternate sides of the instrument eg. lefthand would play c,e,g,b, etc while the right hand would play d, f, a, etc so it is not as straight foreward as a piano. I'm sure other players in this forum know more about the instrument than me so you are sure to get a lot of advice. BTW I play Anglo.
Cheers Bill


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 08:41 AM

We've had a thread about this recently: blicky

As a player of both, my advice is the Anglo is better for dance music - being 'similar' to the melodeon, and the English is better for accompaniment.

Having said that, I use my Anglo for accompaniment and my English for dance music if I feel like it!!

Confused? You will be!


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:52 AM

Bernard, thank you very much for the blue clicky thing. That'll teach me to do a Forum search first!

Like Mary on the other thread, I'm leaning toward the English, even at a higher price than the Anglo--mostly because I *think* I understand the fingering system better. Unfortunately, I can't follow the advice to try them both before I buy, because I've not been able to find anywhere local that has concertinas, and the only one I've seen/heard played (and bless his heart, been allowed to hold and play with) is a 30-button Anglo.

Ah well--ya throws the dice and ya takes yer chances, I reckon! Thanks Bill and Bernard, and the posters on the other concertina thread, too. Much appreciated.

Lin


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:50 AM

I would agree, there - the Anglo is better suited to 'ear' players (at a beginner's level), whereas the English requires a little more discipline.

The English was designed to be a music reader's instrument, as I posted on the other thread - Charles Wheatstone specifically put the 'lines' on the left and the 'spaces' on the right.

I don't wish to spark off a debate by suggesting one is 'better' than the other, as that is far from the truth; I'm merely suggesting that an Anglo is 'friendlier' in the early stages, particularly for a 'non musician'.

I've got some MIDI files of fairly easy Morris tunes which work well on an Anglo - G row only! PM me with your email address if you want them.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Musicman
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 12:05 PM

you can find some interesting information about english concertina's here and here.

btw, I play english........wheatstone......


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: GUEST,Mark. West Sussex. UK
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 03:14 PM

I am trying to think how to explain this. It is a bit like asking the difference between flatpicking with a plectrum or fingerpicking with a thumb and three fingers. I think you can get a lot more initial enjoyment and success with an English. It is also more relaxed and meditative to play because you can "breath" the bellows in and out like a peaceful yoga exercise. Anglo is more energetic, dangerous and sexy to play. It is a different mind set. You have to do a sort of Celtic Luke Skywalker and "Use the Force". It is a kind of reflex instinct that comes with practice. In England a chain called HOBGOBLIN do a catalogue and international Mail Order www.hobgoblin.com or try Barleycorn Concertinas in Scotland for advice and older models. He does mail order too and will only sell fully serviced and playable machines. The best thing is to find people who play and ask for a quick lesson/try out.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: GUEST,Liz
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 11:09 PM

What's the latest on the old anglo vs. english concertina thread? I'm fascinated with both!!!.....have gone to many websites listening to CD soundbytes and hope to get to a local taven this thurs. to hear the "real" thing


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: JWB
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 11:56 PM

Liz,

The Anglo and English have a similar timbre -- it's how they're played that makes the difference. At last weekend's Mystic Seaport Sea Music Festival there was a workshop on squeezebox, which featured (among other things):
the Irish style of playing the Anglo
the Irish style of playing the English
the English style of playing the Anglo
the legato style of playing the English

If you put in the time on either instrument, you'll discover that the possibilities approach infinity.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 04:34 AM

If you would like to hear some Anglo playing by some of the best players from around the World, living and dead, you could do worse than checking out our Anglo International 3 CD set. Full details here.

We are also currently doing the same with the English Concertina and English International is scheduled for release by end July.

Oh, and incidentally, Duet International is scheduled for early 2008.

More details will appear on this forum as and when.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 04:36 AM

Sorry, that clicky didn't work. Try again Anglo International


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: concertina ceol
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 04:47 AM

oh no not again!

I really wish that english, duet and anglo were not called concertina because they are all so different from each other. In some ways like comparing a mandolin to a violin, tuned the same but played completely differently.

Unfortunately most of the advice above falls into the "Because I wear glasses and they cure my eyesight problem - they will work for you"

Just to clear up some mis information. Although Anglo is arranged in C/G plus accidental rows this means that you can play in any key, certainly you can play in C, G, A minor, E minor, D, D minor, A etc. etc.

I have to run will post later - I don't think either is better though for anything


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: treewind
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 05:00 AM

Harry Scurfield told me he has one song he accompanies on C/G Anglo in B (and I think he meant B major!)
We do one in F minor and I'm about to start work on one in B flat, both also on C/G Anglo.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 06:30 AM

Don't forget to visit Concertina.net!
The forum there is full of helpful, friendly folks.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 06:51 AM

Listen to lots of players. When you think "That's the sound I want to make." get that sort of concertina... then practice for twenty years.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 06:59 AM

Lin - from what you say above, my opinion is that the English would suit you better than the Anglo. "Captain Birdseye" might advise you, if he happens upon this particular thread.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 07:24 AM

Here's how I see it:

Anglo:
Advantages - easier to learn, especially if you have limited musical knowledge. 'Punchy' sound, good for dancing. Good for morris, barn dance music
Disadvantages - limited to 2 major keys (G/D or G/C). Older ones can be in old pitch. Avoid cheap brightly coloured ones - they are poor quality.

English:
Advantages - fully chromatic so not limited in keys. Better suited to someone with good musical knowledge. Suitable for song accompaniment, including more complex stuff.
Disadvantages - smoother, less rhythmic sound. Not generally so good to to dance to, unless backed up by other instruments.

So it depends what you want to play. Brass reeds give a soft sound and steel reeds a brighter sound. Lachenal, Wheatstone and Crabb are good makes (there are others) but some old instruments can be in poor condition.

Good luck

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 07:42 AM

I found The English easier.I use the English to accompany songs and play tunes[Irish and Northumbrian],In my opinion the English suits northumbrian tunes very well,the jumps of a fifth, with same finger give a similiar effect [staccato]to NORTHUMBRIAN PIPES.I think the English is excellent for playing slow airs, hornpipes and jigs work quite well,and Sliabh Luchra music[Polkas,Slides],and OCarolan tunes,seem suited to it.
The English is not so easy for playing ,morris tunes,the in /out of the anglo is naturally more rhythmical[this is the main problem with the English],the ENGLISH player has to learn finger attack and wrist/bellows attack to acheive good dance rhythm,
but the ANGLO PLAYER has a problem when he wishes to smooth passages out,he has to start cross rowing.[you really need a 2 half c/g or three row to do this,ON TWO ROW G D s you can acheive a lot of crossrowing, to get MORE legato effect in G an D.
Quite a lot of Fiddle ornamentation,is easily transferred to the English[fiddle rolls,cuts,grace notes]
I have for sale on my website Boxing Clever
which features Harry Scurfield john Kirkpatrick[ANGLO]TimLaycock[duet]DickMiles[English and Duet]http://www.dickmiles.com


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 09:05 AM

Dick Miles? Who is he?! ;o)


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 09:12 AM

I have found English works well when accomanying Tango, R&B, West Indian rhythms [including chanteys] and other 'odd' melodic styles. It is [IMNSHO] more flexible when someone comes in with odd keys, even if it is a pain to play all those sharps in E.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 09:16 AM

Seriously, though, I have 'Boxing Clever', Anglo International' and also Brian Peters' 'Anglophilia' (I get a mention in the 'sleeve notes'!).


As for the glasses and eyesight allegory, how else is one supposed to offer advice other than by saying 'this is what works for me'? You might just as well slate every other 'advice wanted' thread in the same way!

People usually make up their own minds about things in spite of advice, rather than because of it!!


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 09:46 AM

I agree that Anglo concertinas usually appear in C/G or G/D configurations but can be special ordered in other configurations if that's what you need. I have a Morse Anglo that's configured F/C as well as a G/D one.

It is theoretically possible to play songs in other keys with the standard configuration concertinas but it does require learning new fingerwork patterns, some of which are arkward.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Crane Driver
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 10:05 AM

One of the things I like about playing Duet concertina is when someone comes up and says "Is that an English or an Anglo?" I can answer "No!"

You'll hear many people (mainly those who've never played one) saying that duets are very complicated to play. I was lucky enough to find a duet as my first concertina, many years ago - I've tried English and Anglo since, but I wouldn't trade for either of them. I've got a fully-chromatic box (true, some keys are easier to play in than others, but that's true of most "chromatic" instruments) with the same note on push and pull, but with a complete tenor keyboard in the right hand and a bass keyboard in the left. I mainly play song accompanyments but also play in a ceilidh band and have played for Morris and Clog dancing, and even for Rapper sword dances, which need fast, Irish-style jigs. I find I can get either the 'bounce' for dance music or the smoother style for slower music as required.

You can hear a few clips of me and my duet (AND my wife!) on our website at Crane Drivin' Music.   Go to 'Recordings', then either of the CD pages, and click on the 'MP3 Jukebox'.

Andrew


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 10:09 AM

The English concertina, is supposed to be designed the way that it is,to facilitate playing at speed.It is an instrument for people with good coordination between left and right hands.
At the end of the day all three systems are great.
Lin you must look into the duet as well,as a an ex piano player[Ihope I have this right[]Bass on the left treble on the right,might suit you,there are four different arrangements of duet,Crane,Hayden,Jeffries,Mccann.DickMiles


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 11:08 AM

Hi all--

Interesting to see this old thread again. Lots of good advice here!

I did buy an English, and have been very glad I did. One of the reasons I like it is because I actually understand the notes and layout--it "makes sense" to me.

One of the things I don't like about stringed instruments (and I've attempted to learn several) is that they DO NOT make sense to me. I don't know if I just can't wrap my head around how the fretboard works, or if I'm just determined that I can't, but either way I get too frustrated with it to learn anything. Even though my Dearling and his son are both excellent players and good teachers. And please don't bother with instructions, I don't want any!

Back to concertinas: I got mine from the Buttonbox, here in the states. It's a Stagi, one of the less-expensive brands, but I am very happy with it.

Thanks again for all the good words. Captain, I'll have to see if I can find a duet around here anywhere and take a look at it. Squeezeboxes are a lot rarer in this part of the US than they are in other parts of the world...

Lin


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Alan Day
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 12:41 PM

In general your disadvantages with the English Concertina "Tradsinger" is correct, but a few players on English International (Due shortly) may change your views.
Al


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Fidjit
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 02:07 PM

Looking forward to it Alan.

I play anglo 'cos that's what I've got.
For singing and morris style tunes. Great.
I can do a fair enough version of, "The Entertainer" too.
I don't read.
For Mozart and other stuff. Well, get the other one.

Chas


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Alan Day
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 06:16 PM

I must say that singing with the Anglo is difficult for me and if I wanted a concertina to sing with I would definitely choose the English or Duet.It took me some time to cure myself of breathing in and out with the bellows as many do with the Anglo.The lovely thing about the Anglo is the bounce that you can get with the music on the instrument, which of course lends itself to Morris, Country and Contra Dancing,French and Breton music.The smoothing out of playing is possible with the Anglo and with a bit (a lot) of work it can be achieved,just in the same way that some English and Duet players can create a bounce in their playing.
The thing is we move on our music tastes change and we set ourself new types of music to play and new targets.If you could look into the future some of us would have chosen different instruments,this is why this question becomes so difficult ,but is also how the instrument can progress as we all hear the results of someones work into new dimensions of the instrument we did not realise existed.
Al


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 06:29 PM

I suggest for those English concertina players interested in jazz ,looking at how the chromatic harmonica has been used in jazz.
Dick Miles[philistine]


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Tootler
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 06:47 PM

I bought an Anglo because, after trying both English and Anglo, for me The Anglo "felt right". It maybe something to do with the fact that I have had harmonicas on and off over the years, even if I never really took playing them very far, so I was comfortable with the "suck blow" approach to playing. In fact in some ways I approach playing the Anglo rather like playing the harmonica.

There is a lot of nonsense talked about what the English and Anglo are good for. You only have to hear Alistair Anderson playing for dancing to realise how good the English can be for dancing. As others have said, listen to Anglo International to get some idea of just how versatile the Anglo can be. Of course like any musical instrument, it takes time and effort to become proficient. Brian Peters' "Anglophilia" is also worth a listen. If you want to hear excellent song accompaniment, get hold of some Magpie Lane CD's. Their Anglo player, Andy Summers is superb.

A 30 button anglo is perfectly capable of playing in any key, though the home keys are usually significantly easier than any others. I was trying out a tune in Eb the other day and it was perfectly possible, though there were a number of awkward finger movements and it will take time and a lot of practice to get the hang of it.

At the end of the day, which concertina you choose is what feels right for you, but if you are within reasonable distance of a shop that sells them, go along and try them. It is the only way you will find it which suits you.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: JWB
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 10:43 PM

Tootler, you're right: the 30 button Anglo can play in just about any key. It's taken me 25+ years, but I now accompany songs on my 33-button C/G Jones in the keys of C, G, D, F, Em, Am, Dm, Cm, and Bb. Just takes a while to figure out the arrangements on those less common keys.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:47 AM

yes, the 30 key anglo,is very versatile.I would suggest all beginners make a diagram of their fingerboard for both in and out,and you will see how many options there are.,a major becomes obvious too,although I understand the Lachenal /Wheatstone accidental arrangement makes it easier than the Jeffries.
The english becomes interesting in E flat and Aflat,because of the duplication,of these notes on either side of the box.DickMiles[philistine]


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Tootler
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:25 AM

JWB, You cheer me up no end. <g> In 25 years time I will be 87! So I clearly have a lifetime of learning ahead of me :-)

On a more serious note, my accompanying myself is still at the stage of doubling the melody, though with some tunes I do put in some chords at critical places. As I said earlier I tend to approach the Anglo as bellows blown harmonica rather than go for the RH melody, LH chords approach. I treat it as a melody instrument, much as the Irish do - in fact I like the Irish (melody) style of playing Anglo. On Anglo International, there is a set of Northumbrian tunes played melody style which for me goes to show that melody style playing does not have to be confined to Irish tunes.

Cap'n Birdseye,

What you suggest is just what I did. Coming from a wind instrument background - I have been playing recorder for over 30 years - I was used to fingering charts so the first thing I did was make one. I keep one in my concertina box and one permanently on my music stand.

As to the two common arrangements of the accidental row, I don't think there is much to choose between them.There are pros and cons to both. The cheapy Hohner I got first had the accidentals in the Lachenal/Wheatstone layout, but when I bought the Morse I now have it came with the Jeffries Layout. The Jeffries layout does have the advantage of middle octave C# being available on both push and draw which is very handy when playing D and other modes with two sharps.

As a general comment to anyone considering getting an Anglo, do get a 30 button instrument, it does give you a lot more options and it is certainly worth the extra money.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Alan Day
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:53 AM

The same for me, the Captain is right, after many years of playing by ear I decided to play duet style, which meant a lot of chord work.It is only when you write down your layout do you see what is available to you.If the note or chord you want is in the opposite direction or for the passage of play you run out of air put in a couple of grace notes or ornamention in the opposite direction to give you bellows space.
Al


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:47 AM

"If you want to hear excellent song accompaniment, get hold of some Magpie Lane CD's. Their Anglo player, Andy Summers is superb."

Er....... isn't Andy Summers that fellow in The Police? If you meant Andy Turner, however, I quite agree.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Greg B
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 03:11 PM

Lin, since you're enjoying your Stagi, start saving at once for
something a bit more responsive. Stagis are fine for learning on
but have a penchant for wearing out after a time. For song
accompaniment you might consider one of the Morse instruments
and perhaps a baritone version. Much as I love my Aeola and
my raised-metal end Wheatstone, both are quite loud and range
from bright to downright harsh in tone. That can be an issue
if you're not as powerful a singer as, say, Lou Killen.

And the prices of such vintage things are just insane! I do love my vintage baritone, however. The lower-end vintage instruments can
be much softer and sweeter in tone, but they are also less responsive
and prone to mechanical problems.

The Morse instruments that I've had in my hand are just a bit
less harsh in tone, still quite responsive, and feel very good
to hand. And the price is more than fair.

If you do have a Morse instrument built, ask for the 'Salvation
Army modification' to the very bottom accidental on the right
hand. As I recall, it changes that note to 'F' which extends
the scale down very conveniently. Lou Killen has his set up
that way, and the Aeola which I have that is virtually identical
to his came to me from Colin Dipper (via Lark in the Morning) with
that change. My Wheatstone lacks it, and I miss it. What the
Wheatstone has, and I recommend, are wrist straps. Didn't know
how useful they were until I had them.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Tootler
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:05 PM

Er....... isn't Andy Summers that fellow in The Police? If you meant Andy Turner, however, I quite agree.

Woops! Senior moment.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:33 AM

GREG B,im not sure I Entirely agree with you.that is very handy for playing in f,but restricts you for, a flat and e flat,I have one box like that,and deliberately have another one without the F.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 07:57 AM

I'm with the "Driver Of Cranes" on this one.
What is the point of the English system (Swapping ends all the time, etc) or the Anglo (Just a glorified mouth organ), when you have the chance available to own the KING of concertinas.....THE DUET!!!

Mine perchance is the KING of KINGS, the McCann. But the other systems do OK. (It's a joke, alright?!)

It's so natural to play.
Apart from its obvious connections with Keyboards (one hand playing Melody, The other playing Bass) Just think about woodwind players...each hand takes half the work, On a clarinet, the more keys you press down the lower the note..Each hand doing its bit.
Yes, I know it's a bit simplistic, but its true nonetheless!!

The two reasons why people don't take up the Duet.
1. There aren't many of them about (particularly the Crane system)
And secondly you have to practice damn hard.

An analogy.
Anglo......McDonalds, instant gratification, but not amounting to much (you need to have a salad with it!)

English.....Burger King. Promises much, delivers little!

Duet..... Gourmet repast at the Ivy, costs a lot, but, boy when its good it's very very good!

I'm assuming that all you gentle readers realise that my tongue is firmly in my cheek!!!
Good luck to the original posters quest, but please give the poor old Duet a chance. It's stood by me for over 30 years now. A true and loyal friend, when others have fallen by the wayside.
Good luck to all aspirants.

Ralphie

PS....Don't go near the Jeffries Duet....An instrument designed by committee if ever there was one!


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Alan Day
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 08:35 AM

Is the Duet with chips ?
Al


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: GUEST,martin ellison
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 08:50 AM

Ralphie add this to your list:

Melodeon.......Pate de fois gras and black truffle on Mother's Pride with ketchup, hold the pickle. Tea, two sugars and a Wagon Wheel for afters.

Work that one out - I can't.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 09:08 AM

I could never understand the mindset of diatonic addicts and put it down to a surfeit of E numbers and sugar.

But I now find a player, Mary Baker, of the chromatically logical English to have been behind excess sugar production. And she bought her Wheatstone for 12 guineas.

Life is unfair.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: GUEST,martin ellison
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 09:20 AM

Presumably she could make sweet music with someone and stick to the beet.

I'll get caned for that.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Greg B
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:17 PM

Captain Birdseye, of course it's a trade-off. It's a 'funny
note' and not exactly in the system, and I'd much prefer
a 56-key that went down the extra few notes rather than the
usual one which goes up so high that it calls only the dogs,
to the low F. For song accompaniment in usual keys, though
it's useful. Louis Killen swears by it.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:27 PM

Martin - rather syrupy concepts there. As to your food analogy - yup, if I was in the market for a non-stringed instrument at the moment you might well have sold the idea of a melodeon to me but, though I could go with the attraction of the Wagon Wheel and the cups of tea to follow, the use of the ketchup rather lost the vote for me there... so far Ralphie's argument is more persuasive, although I have to say that I'd always understood that in recent years meals at the Ivy were rather over-rated!! Just waiting now to see if a Jeffries player leaps into the fray to defend his blatant attack ... it's interesting sitting on the side-lines - i don't play a concertina, so what would I know???

Loved the link, BTW Diane, but mind you 12 guineas then would be worth a hell of a lot more now... might check that out and come back on it.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:30 PM

Just checked that out and the equivalent price in 2006 money would have been £803.44 !!


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 02:18 AM

I wish I hadn't started the food analogy now, this is just getting silly!
Greg B.
Dick M will no doubt correct me, but there is an English in a lower range (not sure precisely what, no doubt someone will enlighten me) called the Tenor-Treble.
I don't know how many were made, but I would suggest that the reason you don't see many coming up for sale is that they are just too damned useful! (Or the owners have a dog that they don't want to offend!)
Interesting price comparison SS
I don't think that you would get a new Wheatstone made by Mr Dickinson for that price. I can see him going apoplectic at the very thought!!!


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 06:10 AM

yes,I have a 56 key tenor treble,although I dont use it quite as much as my 48 key,It being a little heavier on the wrists.its very useful for recording.
I hardly ever go above high c sharp[topstring on fiddle],I find the notes very squeaky,To my mind the idea of building a box, that has the range of the tenor treble without the notes above high d[on top string, fiddle]is quite a good one.Dick Miles.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: TheSnail
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 06:24 AM

English concertinas come in various sizes. Treble corresponds to violin. I have a tenor-treble, equivalent to viola. There is the baritone, an octave below the treble with no stringed equivalent, and bass which I think covers the first position cello range.

Like Dick, I don't find much use for the top octave. I think Andy Norman, currently of Sussex soon to be of Shropshire, has been known to make a 36 key tenor.


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Subject: RE: Help: Concertinas: Anglo vs. English?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 07:15 AM

and possibly, Anglo players, may agree, about some of their very high notes being replaced with something more useful.


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