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Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]

DigiTrad:
FOX WENT OUT (Den-O)
THE FALSE FOX
THE FOX
THE FOX (2)
THE FOX AND THE GOOSE


Related threads:
Lyr Add: AlternateLyric/Fox Went Out (14)
Lyr Add: Fox Went Out on a Chilly Night (51)
Barbagal/Daddy Fox - which came first? (16)
Lyr Req: John John the grey goose is gone (27)
Lyr Req: Fox Went Out on a Chilly Night (12)
Lyr Add: Daddy Fox (24)
Tune Req: Daddy Fox (27)
Lyr Req: fox went out on a hunt last night (6)
Lyr/Chords Req: Daddy Fox (4)
Tune Req: The Fox Went Out (midi) (7)


Haruo 23 Nov 00 - 01:43 AM
DonMeixner 23 Nov 00 - 02:21 AM
Charcloth 23 Nov 00 - 02:26 AM
MartinRyan 23 Nov 00 - 04:02 AM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Nov 00 - 02:22 PM
nutty 23 Nov 00 - 03:23 PM
nutty 23 Nov 00 - 03:29 PM
GUEST,(Edgar A.) a.k.a. Art Thieme 23 Nov 00 - 03:51 PM
Wolfgang 24 Nov 00 - 07:48 AM
GUEST,Shirley Ceal 12 Nov 02 - 10:34 PM
Malcolm Douglas 12 Nov 02 - 11:11 PM
GUEST,Q 13 Nov 02 - 12:50 AM
Charley Noble 13 Nov 02 - 08:36 AM
Declan 13 Nov 02 - 08:42 AM
GUEST,Kathryn Grier 12 Jan 04 - 10:14 AM
Malcolm Douglas 12 Jan 04 - 10:23 AM
Uncle_DaveO 12 Jan 04 - 10:54 AM
Amos 12 Jan 04 - 12:09 PM
Uncle_DaveO 12 Jan 04 - 12:46 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 12 Jan 04 - 06:17 PM
GUEST,Francis 14 Mar 08 - 11:48 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 14 Mar 08 - 06:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM
Charley Noble 14 Mar 08 - 09:07 PM
pavane 15 Mar 08 - 04:25 AM
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Subject: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Haruo
Date: 23 Nov 00 - 01:43 AM

The Fox was one of my dad's signature pieces (with the usual modicum of emendations - a "big round pen" instead of a "great big bin", etc.). I'm trying to figure out where it came from. Anybody know the author? Editor? Translator (is it originally German?)? Etc. The Digitrad mentions a recording, but no authorial info.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: DonMeixner
Date: 23 Nov 00 - 02:21 AM

My understanding is its German in its early history. College music appreciatin classes. BUT! I have seen it attributed to Odetta before as well. I like Odetta but I lean towards a European history.

Don


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Charcloth
Date: 23 Nov 00 - 02:26 AM

I know that it is at least as old as the French & Indian war & if memory serves me it is a british Isles Number. But that is about all I remember


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: MartinRyan
Date: 23 Nov 00 - 04:02 AM

There have been several threads on this one. Click here for one with lots of versions and background.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Nov 00 - 02:22 PM

Essentially it goes back as far as Aesop I'd imagine. At least.


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: nutty
Date: 23 Nov 00 - 03:23 PM

In all the versions I have seen of the song have the words have been marked as Traditional although artists sometimes put a claim on their particular arrangement


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: nutty
Date: 23 Nov 00 - 03:29 PM

I really should proof read before pressing the button - SORRY
It should read -- In all the versions I have seen of the song , the words have been marked as traditional


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: GUEST,(Edgar A.) a.k.a. Art Thieme
Date: 23 Nov 00 - 03:51 PM

This fine song is a ballad about how hard it is these days to put food on the table---and how, when you to do that, the kids rarely appreciate all your hard work and effort--to the extent that you are completely within your rights to eat your fill first and leave the scraps for the little ingrates. If they don't like it they can go live under the bridge with the rest of the trolls.

Oh, the author was what you wanted. It was written by Mr. P. D. Trad and was sung on a recent episode of The X Files by none other than MISTER FOX Mulder himself.

I do hope this helps.

Happy Thanksgiving !!

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Nov 00 - 07:48 AM

I haven't found a German connection.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: GUEST,Shirley Ceal
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 10:34 PM

I have a article printed about 40 years ago, it states that:
This song dates back at least sixty years and there are many versions, although with these old ballads no one can say positively which was the absolute original. Readers will note that the refain in the first stanaza is repeated in similar fashion in each of the other staznas. (Here is the version I have)
^^
A fox went out in a hungry plight,
and begged of the moon to hive him light,
For he'd many a mile to travel that night,
Ere he could reach his den-oh, den-oh, den-oh;
Fore he'd many a mile to travel that night,
Ere he could reach his den-oh, den-oh, den-oh:

At length he came to a farmer's yard
Where the ducks and geese declared it hard
That their nerves should be shaken and their rest be marred
By a visit from Mister Fox-oh, fox-oh, Fox-oh
That their nerves should be shaken and their rest be marred
By a visit from Mister Fox-oh, fox-oh, fox-oh.

He took the black duck by the sleeve;
Quoth he, "My dear sir, by your leave.
I'll take you away without reprieve,
And carry you home to my den-oh, den-oh, den-oh
I'll take you away without reprieve,
And carry you home to my den-oh, den-oh, den-oh.

He clutched him sharply by the neck,
And flung him right across his back;
The frightened ducks cried, "Quack,quack,quack,
The fox is off to his den-oh, den-oh, den-oh,
The frightened ducks cried, "Quack,quack,quack
The fox is offf to his den-oh, den-oh, den-oh.

Old Mother Slipper-slopper jumped out of bed,
And out of the window she popped her head:
"John, John, John, the black duck's gone,
And the fox is off to his den-oh, den-oh, den-oh
"John, John, John, the black duck's gone,
And the fox is off to his den-oh, den-oh, den-oh.

The farmer ran to the top of the hill,
And blew a blast both loud and shrill.
Quoth the fox, "Tis wondrous music;
Still I'd rather be in my den-oh, den-oh, den-oh,
Quoth the fox, "Tis wondrous music;
Still I'd rather be in my; den-oh, den-oh, den-oh

At last the fox got home to his den,
To his dear littles foxes, eight,nine,ten,
Said he, "We're in luck, here's a good fat duck,
With his legs hanging, dangling, down-oh, down-oh, down-oh,
Said he, "We're in luck, here's a good fat duck,
With his legs handing, dangling, down-oh, down-oh, down-oh.

He sat down to dinner with his hungry wife,
They did very well without fork or knife;
They ne're ate a better duck in all their life,
And the little ones picked the bones-oh, bones-oh, bones-oh,
They ne're ate a better duck in all their life,
And the little one picked the bones-oh, bones-oh, bones-oh.

Hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 11:11 PM

A lot has been said on the subject of this old and very widespread song, and many texts posted here, since this elderly thread was last active two years ago. Here are links to two texts in the DT, of the 14th or 15th century, which are clearly related; to the extent, in the first example, of having phrases in common with traditional versions recovered in the 20th century.

THE FALSE FOX
THE FOX AND THE GOOSE

These files, and other past discussions of this song family, also contain links to still further discussions; in which a large number of versions, both with and without helpful attribution, have been posted.

Perhaps it's time for a DTStudy thread to pull all this stuff together (no, I'm not volunteering!)


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 12:50 AM

The Traditional Ballad Index mentions 15th century English versions but also lists an 1810 version in "Gammer Gurton's Garland." Does anyone know if music is with it?
Wolfgang, the wrong story, but both Pffefel and Claudius have poems about the fox.

The online Aesop has 22 fables involving the fox" Aesop fables
There is also de la Fontaine and his stories.
McGrath, the stories and songs must go back at least to the Sumerians.


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 08:36 AM

In his FOLK SONG BOOK Richard Dyer-Bennet observes:

"I have heard many versions of this song, which is widely known in England and America. The Opies, in their OXFORD DICTIONARY OF NURSERY RHYMES, speak of an 1810 printed collection containing one verse, and also refer to a memorandum by Sir Walter Scott (c. 1826) listing this among old songs he knows."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Declan
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 08:42 AM

I remember they did a great version of this on "Pussy Cat William", and that goes back a few years.


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: GUEST,Kathryn Grier
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 10:14 AM

The OXFORD BOOK OF NURSERY RHYMES states:
"This rollicking song is traditional in both England and America.... The song has descended from a carol which was probably already old when it happened to be written down on the flyleaf of a manuscript, c. 1500 (Royal MS 19 B. iv) The first verse went
          'It fell ageyns the next nyght
            the fox yede to with all his myghte,
            with-outen cole or candlelight,
             whan that he cam vnto the toowne.'"


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 10:23 AM

Yes. The full text of that is in the DT: see the second of the links I gave above, in November 2002.


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 10:54 AM

The version given above by GUEST Shirley Ceal is essentially the version that was recorded by Marais and Miranda, the South African Singers. I haven't gone to look at the LP shuck's notes, but I believe the implication was that their version was from South Africa.

I believe Shirley Ceal gives one verse not included in Marais and Miranda's recording.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 12:09 PM

IF it is as old as is impolied it is perfectly possible that a version found its way to South Africa from Englad (or even from Holland for that matter), rather than that it was first written there.

A


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 12:46 PM

Amos, I agree.

My own guesstimate is that it's from England.

For whatever it's worth, the tune Marais and Miranda used is quite different from the tune I think of as "the ordinary" the Fox/Chilly Night tune, as exemplified by the Burl Ives version.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 06:17 PM

One of the most widespread folk songs in North America. Two audio versions in the Wolf Coll.: Index
A short version in Max Hunter (with audio), versions in both Randolph and Brown, and a good one in Cox, with music (Folk-Songs of the South).


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: GUEST,Francis
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 11:48 AM

The Brothers Four does a version of The Fox that is great.


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 06:01 PM

I always liked Harry Belafonte's version when I was a kid.


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM

Then there is Roald Dahl's Fantastic Mister Fox.


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 09:07 PM

Please read the entire thread through before posting.

We're not going to find an author of this one unless you have access to a time machine.

The OXFORD BOOK OF NURSERY RHYMES seems to be the earliest reference.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Help: Author of The Fox [went out on a]
From: pavane
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 04:25 AM

Young Tradition also did a good version


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