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THE WINNER

GUEST,khandu 08 Nov 00 - 02:19 AM
katlaughing 08 Nov 00 - 02:24 AM
Lonesome EJ 08 Nov 00 - 02:29 AM
katlaughing 08 Nov 00 - 02:35 AM
CarolC 08 Nov 00 - 02:40 AM
WyoWoman 08 Nov 00 - 02:45 AM
Bugsy 08 Nov 00 - 02:51 AM
Lady McMoo 08 Nov 00 - 02:58 AM
GUEST,khandu 08 Nov 00 - 03:05 AM
wysiwyg 08 Nov 00 - 03:14 AM
Steve Parkes 08 Nov 00 - 03:35 AM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 08 Nov 00 - 03:46 AM
Lepus Rex 08 Nov 00 - 03:51 AM
mrmoejoerisen 08 Nov 00 - 04:04 AM
Bun 08 Nov 00 - 04:24 AM
GUEST,Me 08 Nov 00 - 04:28 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 08 Nov 00 - 04:32 AM
CarolC 08 Nov 00 - 04:35 AM
GUEST,harp 08 Nov 00 - 04:38 AM
CarolC 08 Nov 00 - 04:39 AM
Lena 08 Nov 00 - 04:52 AM
CarolC 08 Nov 00 - 05:04 AM
Thyme2dream 08 Nov 00 - 05:30 AM
Bagpuss 08 Nov 00 - 05:43 AM
bbc 08 Nov 00 - 05:44 AM
Banjer 08 Nov 00 - 06:02 AM
Ringer 08 Nov 00 - 06:05 AM
The Shambles 08 Nov 00 - 06:32 AM
InOBU 08 Nov 00 - 06:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Nov 00 - 06:58 AM
kendall 08 Nov 00 - 08:25 AM
GUEST,Bob S. 08 Nov 00 - 08:27 AM
kendall 08 Nov 00 - 08:41 AM
MiriamKilmer 08 Nov 00 - 08:49 AM
Peter T. 08 Nov 00 - 08:50 AM
SINSULL 08 Nov 00 - 09:00 AM
Pseudolus 08 Nov 00 - 09:08 AM
L R Mole 08 Nov 00 - 10:18 AM
Jim the Bart 08 Nov 00 - 10:23 AM
Mrrzy 08 Nov 00 - 10:35 AM
katlaughing 08 Nov 00 - 10:45 AM
GUEST,Bob S. 08 Nov 00 - 10:55 AM
Alice 08 Nov 00 - 11:12 AM
Little Hawk 08 Nov 00 - 11:14 AM
Jim the Bart 08 Nov 00 - 11:39 AM
Bert 08 Nov 00 - 11:42 AM
L R Mole 08 Nov 00 - 03:01 PM
Midchuck 08 Nov 00 - 03:54 PM
DougR 08 Nov 00 - 05:07 PM
MichaelAnthony 08 Nov 00 - 05:26 PM
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Subject:
From: GUEST,khandu
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 02:19 AM

Just in: Dubya has won.

Are you cheering or crying?


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 02:24 AM

They are saying there is still a chance something may change, if not, I am breaking out the black armbands. Smae thing I did when his dad was elected. Fuck!

kat


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 02:29 AM

Nader had a chance to throw his votes to Gore,but opted to try for his 5% and get matching funds.He failed,but in the act cost Gore a margin of victory.

Well,we have Bush now,for better or worse.I wish him luck,and hope he does what is best for his country.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 02:35 AM

He will LeeJ, the key word being his country. I doubt we will recognise it once the all Republican House, Seante and he get on a roll. Canada is looking better every day.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 02:40 AM

*sob*...*whimper*....I want my binky...


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: WyoWoman
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 02:45 AM

I am so deeply, profoundly pissed at Ralph Nader. He had a chance to make a strong statement, set some parameters, make some demands, then throw his support to Gore in exchange for some real assurances that the issues he raised would be dealt with, not just given lip service. Coalition-building is what politics is all about, but that lesson seems to have been lost.

I'm bereft, frankly. And it isn't just because a Republican has been elected President. I'm a Democrat, but I can live with the Other Guys, if they behave themselves. It's that I think the American people fell for a line of b.s. about Gore (re. him being a "pathological liar," etc.) and that his handlers and pollsters and managers and pundits and every other imaginable buffer got in the way and kept him from actually running the kind of campaign he could have. I think that campaign was mismanaged from the get-go and no one knew a damned thing or had the courage to do any intelligent damage control about stuff that was EASILY provable as horseshit.

I feel like the Democrats handed it to Dubya. And I think time will tell us which of those two gentlemen -- Dubya or Al -- actually are morally and ethically challenged.

Maybe this will be the impetus for finishing the social revolution we started in the Sixties -- as the election of 1953 proved to be back then. Power to the People! Right arm!

ww


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Bugsy
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 02:51 AM

Meanwhile, it's a lovely day here in Western Austtralia.

Cheers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 02:58 AM

Our condolences to the American people from the Surreal Kingdom of Belgium.

Peace

mcmoo


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: GUEST,khandu
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 03:05 AM

To the Gore supporters, I offer my shoulder and hankie. To the Bush group, I lift a pint of Guinness.

For us all, I lift my voice in prayer.

May we all keep pressing on to the higher calling.

khandu


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 03:14 AM

mcmoo-- Aw that's so sweet, condolences. Thinking of us Statesers as we gnash our teeth. Thanks for keeping a thought for us.

Yeah, NADER. I wanna have a little talk with HIM.

I grew up thinking Ralph Nader was a really, really big deal. Maybe it's the fault of network TV (or my own for watching it), but all I have seen of Nader in this election has been an angry face drawing votes away from someone who was actually electable. I'm always a little suspicious of people who attack instead of working positively within an existing system and who cannot build their OWN organization up to a functional level.

I'm all for third parties but it does seem to me that when their candidates have no governing experience, they can't do much but be spoilers. I used to think that sound business experience could be a substitute, but then I went to work for the Red Cross as an exec, and I learned a lot about the difference between management and governance. I understand checks and balances much better for that than I ever could have from school civics lessons. Management and governance are different critters, and thank God they are. And NADER???? Come on! To run all that the US is??? Yeah, he was a real serious candidate.

~S~


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 03:35 AM

Well, I'm just glad it had nothing to do with me! At least I don't have to take sides, although I could never bring myself to support a man whose father spanked Bart Simpson.

People keep saying we get the government we deserve -- we don't! Nobody deserves politicians!!

Steve


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 03:46 AM

From the UK perspective I'd have preferred a Democrat but I didn't envy the choice on offer to the US voter. Still, let's be generous and congratulate DougR, if not Dubya.
RtS


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 03:51 AM

Oh, he hasn't really even won yet. They just said that the NY Times has stopped their presses because of the difference a Florida recount could make. God, this is a great election...

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: mrmoejoerisen
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 04:04 AM

Well I can talk because I voted and am drying the tear stained hankie now. Stupid Nader; if Gore had simply pounded out about 4 or 5 more issues he could have easily swept up lame Naders deciding votes but alas we have reached the end of the "Goals for the Twenty First Century Campaighn" and plunged ourselves into the "Raise the taxes so my buddies Defense and Pork" can take over for the (hopefully only) for the next 4 years agenda. In the next election in 2004 wouldn't it be interesting if a former Independant Party Candidate were to run as the Vice Presidential Democratic Candidate? I gave it my best effort yesterday as an American Citizen to continue our prosperity and stifle the Rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer scanario by casting my Vote. Well we'll see how Bush Jr does in the Oval Office we have his dad to thank for the Gulf War. mrmoejoerisen


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Bun
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 04:24 AM

Shite!
Rich


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: GUEST,Me
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 04:28 AM

I have said it before and I will say it again -
DEMOCRACY JUST DOESNT WORK!!!!!
So - whats the alternative??????


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 04:32 AM

I voted for Nader. He is right about so many things, that he went over the top... of everyone. Gore hasn't lost yet, Bush hasn't won either. Too close in Florida, with potential hanky-panky to boot! Lost ballot boxes, recounts in five districts, big media turnaround after giving the state to Gore...

I smell a rat.

Media made this election, with selective reporting. Their predisposition/bias was evident in their late night blunders... I think Bush may have tried to buy this election... the "influence" wielded by the consevative Republican party.

I hope he gets caught.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 04:35 AM

**HONK**...sniff...sniff...


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: GUEST,harp
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 04:38 AM

It's official Folkies! In the first Presidential Election of the New Millennium, the deciding vote was cast by an Elvis Impersonator who works in a Holiday Inn Lounge in Broward County!!!! No wait!!!....A Jamaican bass player in a Reggae band! No wait....An eighty five year old retired telephone operator from New Jersey down to play the slots!!!! No...wait!!!!...

harp


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 04:39 AM

As of 4:40 am EST, Wednesday, Al Gore now has the majority of the popular vote for the whole country!


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Lena
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 04:52 AM

Guys,our condolences to the rest of the world OUTSIDE America,starting from Canada!!!I still have to forget all the shit Old man bush brought to overseas countries when he was on.This is the worst new I have been given in months.but with the disasters in Israel,I couldn't sort out the worst possible candidate to handle the matter,between the twos...I'm off,bitterly crying.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 05:04 AM

Gore now has Iowa and Wisconson!


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Thyme2dream
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 05:30 AM

I for one have been ashamed and disgusted by our leadership in the last eight years. Whatever the issues, I think Gore personally is a fairly intelligent, but nasty man. He would not be a leader I could be proud of, and I am hoping against hope that I can wake up sometime in the next few days and be proud again. If Bush is elected, I hope that he will follow through with his ideas of bringing the nation together, and really working with both parties on solving problems. I don't think you all have as much to fear or swear about as you think you do if he is our next president...with this sort of split vote, no one has any kind of dreadful power until they prove themselves in reality...and with a split congress as well, every major decision will be a battle for either man. I respect you all and your right to swear at me now, and will try to stay friendly and cheerful, but with all the stress I finally just had to put in my tuppence!


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Bagpuss
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 05:43 AM

Alternatives to democracy? I volunteer to be your benevolent dictator :-)

Seriously though, you should know better than to take the unofficial results of the tv stations. The difference in Florida is small enough to be withing the margin of error and a recount could change it all. With so many more votes to recount there, though, it may take a day or so.

never trust exit polls, my friends lie in them, just to make the forecasters look stupid!

Bagpuss


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: bbc
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 05:44 AM

Although my radio is still saying it isn't final, I dearly hope that Bush has won. I have been ashamed to admit to being an American during Clinton's terms & Gore doesn't seem any more moral, just more inept. It's a dark day in NY--that's for sure! Moving to CT or MA is looking like a more pressing goal!!! This may even more me to buy a bumper sticker for my car for the 1st time--"Didn't vote for him; didn't vote for her!"

Where's DougR? Let's get a drink, honey!

bbc


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 06:02 AM

It ain't over till the fat lady sings..And she won't sing till all the Florida votes have been recounted...Does it really make a difference though?....One is as bad as the next one, maybe just in a different way!


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Ringer
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 06:05 AM

Democracy is the worst possible way of getting a government... except for all the alternatives.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 06:32 AM

Come on stop 'beating around the Bush'. Who won?


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: InOBU
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 06:34 AM

Polar Bears turned black
Roe v Wade turned back. Ralph Nader gains a little ground,
But the world turns upside down.
God we hope not... Larry (it is still in play at 6:30pm)


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 06:58 AM

Never forget that anyone who thinks they can run a country and therefore stands for election cannot be sane. What makes matters worse is that people know this and still vote for them anyway....;-)

Alternative to democracy? ANARCHY RULES OK!!!!

BTW - the OED primary definition of anarchy is absense of government and I'm all for that!!!

Dave the anarchic gnome


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 08:25 AM

Is it, or is it not well known that Bush lied?That newspaper reporter asked him if he had been arrested after 1968, and he replied "NO". Is it or is it not well known that he was arrested not once, but three times? Then he takes the moral high ground, attacking Gores credibility. This bird couldnt qualify for a regular Civil service job, yet he can be president. What a country!


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: GUEST,Bob S.
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 08:27 AM

At least the people in Gore's "home state" of TN had the sense not to vote for him. They know him.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 08:41 AM

They are ALL sleeze bags. Its vital to be a politician. Does anyone really think that Nader is the savior? Got news folks, he is just another power hungry politician. that is the only reason anyone runs for high office. That guy in NJ spent 6o million dollars of his own money.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: MiriamKilmer
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 08:49 AM

I found you! (I had left my browser open on the old thread, and when I refreshed it, everyone was GONE! I posted there. Now I'm here.

Kat, there are two midi file links at the link you gave me, but my player rejects both of them. However, "The Wearing of the Green" is entirely familiar... and green is so appropriate as a color for "le variateur d'ambiance du concombre saumuré."


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 08:50 AM

How are things in the banana republic this morning? The light on the shining hill, the beacon of the world, the ballot boxes in the swamps of Dade County?

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 09:00 AM

4 years of "subliminable messages". I don't think I can take it. Is our children safe from illiteracy with Bush in office?


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Pseudolus
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 09:08 AM

Florida, the only state where the election is best out of three!!!! So far, Gore 1, Bush 1.

I think the best line of the night was from Bob Dole of all people who in response to the question, Could the electoral vote end in a tie said, "If it does end in a tie and they can't pick a president, I'd be glad to serve."

Frank


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: L R Mole
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 10:18 AM

Put the acoustics away and plug in the electrics, folks. Time to turn it up again.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 10:23 AM

Oy Vey...If I had only gotten in one more really clever quip, if I had only made up one more scandalous story, if I had only sedated 1,000 more blue-haired ladies...


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 10:35 AM

I'm just glad I didn't lose a night's sleep waiting up for the returns... but the pundits are right, at least it isn't BORING! But I still fear, I fear...


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 10:45 AM

You say you want a revolution....


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: GUEST,Bob S.
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 10:55 AM

The recount in FL will probably take a week at least. They have to wait for the overseas ballots to show up. In the meanwhile whoever is responsible for the recount has yelled for her lawyers. I guess she doesn't know what her job is.

Now we will have recounts and challenges until some judge can be persuaded to validate the results. We will never know who won.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Alice
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 11:12 AM

Here is a message from the discussion going on at the professional illustrators forum regarding the Florida voting... interesting...

---

It's been reported that in Broward county Florida, confusing graphic design on the ballot has resulted in over 3000 Gore voters mistakenly voting for Buchanan.I've seen it. It's confusing to me and I'm no octogenerian. With Georgie ahead by about 1700 at this time it's possible that bad design could throw this thing. Amazing.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 11:14 AM

My condolences as well to my friends south of the border. We are presently having a Canadian election which is every bit as silly as the one you have just completed...just doesn't last one tenth as long. It will be over in a short time from now, and little, if anything, will really change, except that the rich will probably get richer, and there will be a few more homeless on the streets of Toronto and other cities...regardless of who wins it.

Someone said "Democracy doesn't work!" Well, of course not! Not the phony excuse for democracy that we have at present, because it ISN'T REAL DEMOCRACY AT ALL.

It would be better to ban all political parties and simply have individuals run for election on their own personal merits as human beings. Those individuals could be funded from a pool of public money, rather than from private (read: corporate) funding. Each individual, up to a maximum of 5 candidates per riding, would receive EXACTLY the same amount of money to run his campaign. The campaign would be limited to 40 days maximum. The individual receiving the most votes would win that riding. The winners of the ridings would form state committees of a non-partisan sort. The state committees would elect from their membership a national committee, after a period of holding discussions. The national committee would elect from its membership a federal committee, which would appoint a cabinet and a chief executive.

The PUBLIC would have the right to vote any member of that government out of office at any time...by a 66% vote of dissaproval. This would make those in government think twice about abusing their privileges.

Now think about it. Eliminate political parties, eliminate your ridiculous electoral college, eliminate BIG MONEY behind the scenes, and you have eliminated all the graft, corruption, and divisiveness of your present system.

Your present system CANNOT work. It is not democracy, no matter who wins your election...because the RICH and only the rich control and run your present system. And they distract you by dividing your attention between the Republicans and the Democrats and putting you at each others' throats...until the day after election...and then they cynically tell you it's time to "heal the wounds and unite the country". What utter bullshit. Democracy indeed!

By the way, I looked outside this morning, and the world is still beautiful, thankfully.

- LH


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 11:39 AM

Good thoughts, Little Hawk, but you underestimate the power of greed and corruption. A new system would just mean the wealthy and corrupt would have to find new ways to use their money and influence to screw the regular guy.

Yeah, I'm more than a little bitter about this election (like I've been about almost every election since I was old enough to think). Yes we need a new way to pick our leaders, but what stops your "committees" from becoming parties? Oh well, we need to keep those cards and letters coming in - all suggestions should be heard!


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Bert
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 11:42 AM

Bagpuss, you're on


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: L R Mole
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 03:01 PM

"...I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody, Outside of a small circle of friends..."the sainted Mr. Ochs.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 03:54 PM

Why do we need a legislative body when we have the web?

All we need is a sufficiently secure password system to make sure nobody votes but once, and every piece of proposed legislation could be subjected to a referendum.

You would need some constitutional safeguards, of course. Probably be a good idea to provide that any new law needed considerably more than a simple majority to enact, but repeal of any existing law needed less than a majority...

Peter.


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: DougR
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 05:07 PM

Hi there, bbc! It's nice to see a posting by you again!

Been doing anything interesting lately?

DougR


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Subject: RE: THE WINNER
From: MichaelAnthony
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 05:26 PM

I'm all for new parties. The media and those parties in power don't give some a chance. I hope Nader gets the 5%. I like folk.


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