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Orange song sound files on line

*Conrad Bladey Peasant-Inactive 30 Aug 00 - 09:04 AM
GUEST,Michael 30 Aug 00 - 09:34 AM
catspaw49 30 Aug 00 - 09:51 AM
SINSULL 30 Aug 00 - 11:40 AM
catspaw49 30 Aug 00 - 11:50 AM
SINSULL 30 Aug 00 - 12:13 PM
catspaw49 30 Aug 00 - 12:21 PM
Wesley S 30 Aug 00 - 12:28 PM
SINSULL 30 Aug 00 - 12:29 PM
Lepus Rex 30 Aug 00 - 12:47 PM
sledge 30 Aug 00 - 12:57 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 30 Aug 00 - 02:37 PM
catspaw49 30 Aug 00 - 03:28 PM
SINSULL 30 Aug 00 - 03:53 PM
Jon Freeman 30 Aug 00 - 04:43 PM
GUEST,Annraoi 30 Aug 00 - 04:48 PM
DougR 30 Aug 00 - 04:54 PM
MMario 30 Aug 00 - 04:57 PM
DougR 30 Aug 00 - 05:05 PM
catspaw49 30 Aug 00 - 05:29 PM
Wesley S 30 Aug 00 - 05:42 PM
katlaughing 30 Aug 00 - 06:54 PM
SINSULL 30 Aug 00 - 07:10 PM
*Conrad Bladey Peasant-Inactive 30 Aug 00 - 07:20 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 30 Aug 00 - 07:21 PM
MartinRyan 30 Aug 00 - 08:29 PM
death by whisky 30 Aug 00 - 08:59 PM
GUEST,Michael 30 Aug 00 - 09:22 PM
Brendy 30 Aug 00 - 09:43 PM
Bud Savoie 30 Aug 00 - 10:08 PM
DougR 31 Aug 00 - 02:41 AM
sledge 31 Aug 00 - 04:17 AM
Bud Savoie 31 Aug 00 - 07:41 AM
Amergin 31 Aug 00 - 07:50 AM
Bud Savoie 31 Aug 00 - 07:54 AM
Amergin 31 Aug 00 - 08:29 AM
Big Mick 31 Aug 00 - 08:57 AM
Snuffy 31 Aug 00 - 09:01 AM
SINSULL 31 Aug 00 - 09:27 AM
JedMarum 31 Aug 00 - 09:36 AM
Amergin 31 Aug 00 - 09:37 AM
LR Mole 31 Aug 00 - 10:04 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 31 Aug 00 - 02:48 PM
DougR 31 Aug 00 - 06:31 PM
GUEST,Michael 31 Aug 00 - 06:38 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 31 Aug 00 - 07:50 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 31 Aug 00 - 07:53 PM
Bud Savoie 31 Aug 00 - 08:51 PM
Big Mick 31 Aug 00 - 10:13 PM
DougR 31 Aug 00 - 10:34 PM
Den 31 Aug 00 - 10:37 PM
catspaw49 31 Aug 00 - 11:00 PM
Bud Savoie 01 Sep 00 - 07:41 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 01 Sep 00 - 08:25 AM
GUEST,Den at work 01 Sep 00 - 01:22 PM
SINSULL 01 Sep 00 - 02:03 PM
GUEST,Den at work 01 Sep 00 - 02:21 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 01 Sep 00 - 02:58 PM
Amergin 01 Sep 00 - 04:54 PM
Den 01 Sep 00 - 06:50 PM
Noreen 01 Sep 00 - 07:00 PM
Den 01 Sep 00 - 07:10 PM
GUEST,Unk Met-Det 02 Sep 00 - 08:05 AM
Big Mick 02 Sep 00 - 11:00 AM
Bud Savoie 02 Sep 00 - 11:08 AM
Big Mick 02 Sep 00 - 12:11 PM
Bud Savoie 02 Sep 00 - 12:47 PM
Jon Freeman 02 Sep 00 - 03:34 PM
Jon Freeman 02 Sep 00 - 04:36 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 02 Sep 00 - 06:06 PM
Jon Freeman 02 Sep 00 - 07:09 PM
Noreen 02 Sep 00 - 07:29 PM
Jon Freeman 02 Sep 00 - 07:34 PM
GUEST,yum yum 02 Sep 00 - 09:36 PM
GUEST,yum yum 02 Sep 00 - 09:39 PM
Jon Freeman 02 Sep 00 - 09:45 PM
GUEST,yum yum 02 Sep 00 - 10:08 PM
Jon Freeman 02 Sep 00 - 10:37 PM
Lepus Rex 03 Sep 00 - 01:19 AM
GUEST,Philippa 03 Sep 00 - 06:47 AM
Quincy 03 Sep 00 - 07:49 AM
Jon Freeman 03 Sep 00 - 08:12 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 03 Sep 00 - 08:39 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 03 Sep 00 - 08:46 AM
Bud Savoie 03 Sep 00 - 09:17 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 03 Sep 00 - 05:06 PM
GUEST,JTT 03 Sep 00 - 07:05 PM
dick greenhaus 03 Sep 00 - 07:11 PM
Quincy 03 Sep 00 - 07:25 PM
GUEST,Paddy(1) 03 Sep 00 - 07:27 PM
catspaw49 03 Sep 00 - 07:36 PM
Jon Freeman 03 Sep 00 - 07:44 PM
Brendy 03 Sep 00 - 07:54 PM
dick greenhaus 03 Sep 00 - 08:10 PM
Brendy 03 Sep 00 - 08:12 PM
paddymac 03 Sep 00 - 09:04 PM
Brendy 03 Sep 00 - 09:08 PM
Bud Savoie 03 Sep 00 - 09:34 PM
Den 03 Sep 00 - 10:45 PM
Big Mick 04 Sep 00 - 12:22 AM
Wolfgang 04 Sep 00 - 07:57 AM
catspaw49 04 Sep 00 - 08:28 AM
GUEST,Jon Freeman 04 Sep 00 - 08:55 AM
Bud Savoie 04 Sep 00 - 08:56 AM
Wolfgang 04 Sep 00 - 09:14 AM
Bud Savoie 04 Sep 00 - 09:19 AM
catspaw49 04 Sep 00 - 09:25 AM
Jeri 04 Sep 00 - 09:45 AM
catspaw49 04 Sep 00 - 10:00 AM
GUEST,yum yum 04 Sep 00 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 04 Sep 00 - 10:39 AM
GUEST,Yum Yum 04 Sep 00 - 10:51 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 04 Sep 00 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,Yum Yum 04 Sep 00 - 11:17 AM
GUEST,Peep-Bo 04 Sep 00 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,Yum Yum 04 Sep 00 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 04 Sep 00 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Yum Yum 04 Sep 00 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 04 Sep 00 - 11:57 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 04 Sep 00 - 12:02 PM
GUEST,Yum Yum 04 Sep 00 - 12:09 PM
catspaw49 04 Sep 00 - 12:13 PM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 04 Sep 00 - 12:13 PM
Brendy 04 Sep 00 - 01:04 PM
Jon Freeman 04 Sep 00 - 04:25 PM
dick greenhaus 04 Sep 00 - 04:57 PM
Greg F. 04 Sep 00 - 05:15 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 04 Sep 00 - 06:08 PM
Brendy 04 Sep 00 - 06:15 PM
Big Mick 04 Sep 00 - 09:54 PM
Big Mick 04 Sep 00 - 09:59 PM
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Subject: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: *Conrad Bladey Peasant-Inactive
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 09:04 AM

YES indeed a page of orange songs in real audio a good site! http://www.orangenet.org/songs.htm Clickit here

Conrad


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Michael
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 09:34 AM

Great! Return of the Number One Fuckwit!

More great tunes HERE

and inspirational readingHERE


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 09:51 AM

Geeziz Conrad, what is your fucking problem? I do so love these posts of yours. An asshole by any other name still smells of shit...........

Just the other day I was thinking that we were due for another piece of bombastic bullshit from you and its so nice to be right. Did your mother have any children that lived? Its obvious that the best part of you ran down her ass and wound up as the brown spot on the mattress.

flaming and trolling.........You do it so wonderfully. All under the guise of scholarly concern and research. It makes it such fun for you doesn't it? Lofty replies on your part.....Non-Partisan babblings that fool no one, but give you the "moral high ground" to those who don't know of you. Its so nice for you...............

Well Dickhead, I'm not mad....just weary of your tripe and nonsense. Fuck off. Eat shit. May all your dreams come true when you find yourself being butt-fucked by a yak while a wombat munches on your tiny balls.

Kiss my ass and have a nice day.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 11:40 AM

Hey Spaw,
I have been to Tibet and had the opportunity to deal with yaks first hand. I have also been to Australia and had the extreme honor of scratching a wombat on the head (Just before he made a grab for my wrist). That was the same day I was attacked by a kangaroo - but I wander. My point is to show a little respect for god's creatures. The first rule of management is NEVER to direct someone to do something you would do yourself or had not already done. Give Karen a hug and add something to your instrument link. It will distract you.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 11:50 AM

Oh Sins I'm not into management here, just adding my wishes for Conrad's personal dream fulfillment. I hate to see a man whose reach does not exceed his grasp, and poor Conrad can't grab his ass with even one hand. Maybe if we all send him encouraging messages such as I did, he'll be able to get the yak and the wombat properly situated.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:13 PM

Spaw - I meant that I did not approve of the way you were managing the yak and the wombat! They deserve better.
Mary


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:21 PM

Oh..............My gawd you're right Sins..........The ASPCA will be down on me for sure won't they? Poor creatures.....consigned to such a fate..........What was I thinking? I want to hereby extend my apologies to yaks and wombats everywhere.

Conrad will just have to be satisfied with having a hot lead enema while trapped in a room with Sinead O'Connor. Not a bad second choice on his part.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:28 PM

People for the ethical treatment of Lead will have something to say about this !!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:29 PM

And she will sing "FFFEEEELLLLIIINNNGGSSS" and Kumbaya alternately.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:47 PM

Wow, when I saw that all-caps title, and theword 'orange,' I just KNEW it was my old pal, Conrad. Looks like Spaw said it all for me, so, oh well...

And Spaw, the way you wrote to Conrad was totally racist. It reminds me of the way African American slaveswere treated, and Martin Luther King jr, too. And other black people. ANY black person, take your pick. And show Conny some respect! ;)

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: sledge
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:57 PM

Spaw, how could you want to inflict such a horror on a cute fluffy wombat, we all know they would rather be grubbing around in kangaroo shit for roots.... Oh I see your point.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 02:37 PM

A Loyal Orange Institution of England? They've managed to give that a fairly low profile. And I'm a bit perplexed to see there are Loyal Orange Lodges for Women...in the Irish Republic, even. Still, they've got some good songs, these buggers, and there's some interesting history in these links, so I guess I'd better say thanks for the reference, Conrad.

Spaw, I wonder if you could be just a bit more restrained with your language in this forum? I've encouraged kids of various ages to hunt around the Mudcat without feeling the need to look over their shoulders. I guess they're mature enough not to dwell on the filth, but they're going to get plenty chances to learn about hatred and bigotry without the Mudcat giving them lessons.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 03:28 PM

First, though it may be vulgar to some, I don't consider it that way, but I am generally a bit more restrained....sometimes.

I admit to bigotry and racism......Is it possible to be devoid of them? On the other hand, if you are concerned about them, try not to allow them anywhere near a posting from Conrad, the proud owner and operator of the most insidious form of bigotry imaginable.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 03:53 PM

Fionn,
Why no request to Guest Michael to restrain himself from posting the above links. Like it or not, the children you send to this site have heard "fuck", "shit" and a lot worse than Spaw comes up with. The White Supremacy sites linked above are just logical enough to be a real danger to adolescents who are insecure to begin with. Conrad's link is legitimately placed here as a source for music and lyrics. Do you think anyone going there is apt to find the music without being exposed to the bigotry? This is not a defense of Spaw. It's a "Heads Up" to you. Maybe you do need to monitor.
Mary


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 04:43 PM

I don't know why people keep rising to the bait. Conrad has been known in many forums for a long while and for the same reasons. Here is a quote from part of a thread from r.m.c dated 30/05/99:

"Trish: ignore the insane ravings of Conrad Bladey and, for God's sake, don't reply. All that asshole wants is to stir up a fight. Everyone who regularly reads any Irish/Celtic newsgroups knows who (and what) he is."

Perhaps some of us could do with heeding this advice.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 04:48 PM

You can say what you like about Conrad, but you can't deny his right to post links to his songs, some of which are extremely singable. Let's not forget, folks, these songs are as much a part of the living Irish Tradition as "Kells Water" or "Amhrán Phádraig Shéamais." You may not agree with the sentiments expressed in them, but, then you don't have to listen. And as for those of you who find the very appearance of Conrad's name unbearably provocative, why don't you just ignore him ?
There's more offensive and dangerous material on the Net. Annraoi


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: DougR
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 04:54 PM

Spaw: May Yak read your message, choked up, and got all teary-eyed. Bet you wouldn't subject Cletus to such abuse. DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: MMario
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 04:57 PM

He'd subject Cletus to such abuse in a hairy-arsed second. It's Cleigh he wouldn't abuse...


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: DougR
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 05:05 PM

Thanks MMario, for the correction. I've been distracted, I guess, consoling my Yak.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 05:29 PM

Hi Jon.....I wasn't rising to the bait. I just honestly enjoy giving him hell as much as he enjoys the trolling.

However, I do find his type of bigotry to be the most insidious and damaging, cloaked in a veil of rationality. We are seeing so much of that today in this world. It makes dealing with the serious issues of human interaction so much harder. No, I just love to have Conrad stop in for a "shot" every now and again. It doesn't anger me at all. Perhaps its therapeutic. He's a jerk...a troll...a bigot of the worst type......everyone knows it. I am glad to see that no one here will engage him in serious discussion anymore. That's a great leap forward for the 'Cat. Maybe we should take turns.

And Doug......I really am sorry about your Yak. I got troubles of my own though. The National Lead Congress just called me and are sending me a subpoena to appear and show cause as to why I have defamed a useful metal.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 05:42 PM

I KNEW IT - I JUST KNEW IT. TOLD YA SO !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 06:54 PM

In the meantime, even though I know they were probably posted as sarcasm, I hope that someone will delete Guest, Michael's links. we really do NOT need those on the Mudcat, no matter the intention.

Thanks,

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 07:10 PM

I have a wonderful children's book here called "Life Ain't No Yuk For A Yak". Would a few verses help?

Jon,
I try. I really do.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: *Conrad Bladey Peasant-Inactive
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 07:20 PM

Ha! what a bunch of paranoid loonies!

good to see you rollin in your own filth!

Actually the only reason I posted the link was to inform those interested. There are songs not otherwise available there and a page I just found yesterday. Actually the entire series of pages is as someone has noted quite informative.

But if it flushed a few biggoted idjiots out of the woodwork for all to know who they are then so much the better! Clickit here

Conrad


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 07:21 PM

Wow, Spaw, Conrad won't sleep tonight, with all that hell you've given him. And how old are you now?

Sinsull/Mary,I hadn't followed up those links, and don't suppose I will. But I take your point about monitoring. Seems a pity that it has to be so, but you can't do much about guests. Can't do much about Spaw for that matter.

I did go to the site Conrad gave. I read some of the text pages, and listened through all the songs and music. Can't say I took offence at anything there, though I happen to be at odds with the loyal orders on just about everything. The tone in which they explain their hostility to ecumenicalism is a bit disheartening, but I don't think you could say they are worse than the Holy Father in that respect. Let's hope it doesn't take Martin McGuinness too long to get rid of religiously segregated schooling in the north.

Annraoi, if there were a few more around with your generosity of spirit, the world would be a better place.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 08:29 PM

Annraoi

Good man. If the Irish Traditional Music Archive is happy to keep collections of Orange songs (written and on record) within its stock - why should we get over-excited?

Conrad

The songs are in fact relatively easily obtainable - links have been provided here before.

Regards


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: death by whisky
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 08:59 PM

I can't be bothered.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Michael
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 09:22 PM

Well, folks, if you see no problem hosting Conrad's brand of racist bigotry, seems a bit hypocritical to complain about hosting white supremecist, or anti-semitic, or right-wing religious, or any other disgusting muck someone wants to post.

The internet- like the world- can be a dangerous place & those who turn children loose on it without guidance or supervision are simply irresponsible.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Brendy
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 09:43 PM

"Knock knock."
"Who's there?"
"Conrad."
"Oh, fuck. Not that wanker again"

B.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 10:08 PM

How have I managed to be on this website for the better part of a year and miss out on Conrad? Judging from the posts, his big thing in life is the classes of people he doesn't like.

I've dropped off a couple of sites becaue of people like him who not only posted regularly, but seemed to be supported by the listowners. Fortunately, Mudcatters (again judging from the posts) are made of sterner stuff and have little use for this kind of crap and for those who dish it.

I like to think of folksongs as bringing disparate people together. I can't think of a song right now that Conrad and I would sing ensemble.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: DougR
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 02:41 AM

Hey Fionn! Maybe you and Conrad could start a band!

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: sledge
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 04:17 AM

Conrads material "harmless", I don't think so. The people that have so killed at least three people and put an 11 year old child in hospital with a bullet in her back subscribe to the same loyalist ethic.

I wonder how the prick would feel if some of his so called friends sprayed his family home with machine gun fire.

If there is a need to preserve these songs then let it be done in such a way that they have to be dug for by those with an interest, not waved in peoples faces in as many ways as possible so that any fuckwit can latch onto them.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:41 AM

The site doesn't just preserve the songs for historical reasons. It spews Orange hatred and shows us how the young are being educated by the Junior Lodges in this kind of thought.

I like to think that someday songs like these will be as interesting as Civil War and Revolutionary War songs are to me now, and for the same reasons.

Anybody know anything about Conrad except for his dislikes?


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Amergin
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:50 AM

The #1 Pissant has as much of a right to post his views here (no matter how much me or anyone else dislikes it) as much as anyone else here, even if his arguments are asinine.....Here's better link started, about half a year ago, here on the 'Cat:click here

Amergin


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:54 AM

I understand that there is a way for 'Catters to punch up someone's past posts. The tenor of this thread has piqued my curiousity about Conradian history. Anyone know how I can get his past contributions?


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Amergin
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 08:29 AM

Just type in the supersearch box "orange order" or "orangemen" and you are sure to come up with his past flaming activities.

Amergin


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 08:57 AM

BUD all you have to do is find one of his thread posts and click on his name in the header. This activates the forum search by name. Wait a few minutes and VOILA, there will be all his posts. You will soon discover why he is known on lists all over the internet for his flaming.

And for what it is worth, I believe the Orange songs and music are an important part of the history of Ireland. They should, and must, be preserved. But the sites that this sorry wee man links to aren't about preservation of the music. They are about spreading hatred and bigotry.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Snuffy
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:01 AM

Bud

On every Message posted the person's name is a clickable link. If you click on the name you will see all their postings. I clicked on you and saw 111 postings going back to this one

111 Bud Savoie RE: Help: Fine Senorita 26-Feb-00 - 08:38 PM

Wassail! V


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:27 AM

Guest Michael,
I perused the sites you listed and did not find any folk music/blues information appropriate to Mudcat. Conrad's site did provide lyrics and background on them. His intentions are another matter. As are yours. And I guess mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: JedMarum
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:36 AM

Like Bud Savoie said earlier, I wondered to myself when I saw this thread, "how could I have been here for a year and never run into this Conrad character before?" I have never seen anyone inspire such a strong response from Spaw (I even wondered,at first if it was the real Spaw).

I understand that the general feeling is that this is a hatemonger, and I accept that that may well be the truth, but I'll take a look at the links anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Amergin
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 09:37 AM

Sorry, Sinsull, but Guest Michael's point was that Pissant has as much Hatred and Bigotry as those idiots in the Aryan Nations. A bit of a thread creep here, but those of us from the Inland Empire do not like the outsiders who have come into our neck of the woods to house their venomous seed. Yes, there is racial prejudice up there, I do not deny that, but prejudice and Hatred are two very different things. One of them (prejudice) is a product of one's environment and the other (Hatred) is a product of insecurity of oneself among other things.

Amergin


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: LR Mole
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:04 AM

Thanks, Spaw. Not even tempted to click, but even amusing souls (perhaps especially amusing souls) ought to note when some things are not only not funny, but beneath contempt. Perhaps C.B. might be persuaded to yell "Fire" in a crowded barracks.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 02:48 PM

On the subject of all singing together (but perhaps not me with Conrad, DougR) which pope said : "Ecumenicalism is the meeting house of heresy"? Which said: "Error has no rights" ("error" of course being as defined by the pope)? Which did a deal with Hitler?

Yes,I'm afraid there is more bigotry in the Catholic church than in the site indicated above. There IS prod/loyalist bigotry too of course, tons of it. It's easy enough to find, so I won't bother giving links.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: DougR
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 06:31 PM

Gee Fionn, sorry you feel that way. I wouldn't mind singing with you! I sure hate to be linked with Conrad though. DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Michael
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 06:38 PM

That's the way, Fionn!! KICK THAT POPE! Want to give him another shot? Feel better??

Now will you favor us with some anecdotes of the numerous horrors perpetrated by proponents of the Protestant faith?

Possibly some spiritually uplifting quotations from the Rev.[sic] Ian Paisley?


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:50 PM

I wasn't suggesting I wouldn't sing with you Doug, far from it - just addressing that aside to you.*BG* Or have I misunderstood your post?

Thanks for your interest Michael, and yes, I think I can oblige. Writing in the Protestant Telegraph in early 1972, Dr Paisley observed that the recent conversion of the child killer Myra Hindley to catholicism (his mistake - she had in fact refound that faith) would come as no surprise to decent Prods, as she was now among evil scum of her own ilk. Or words to that effect. Of course, there are many examples I could have chosen, but this one stands out for its grotesque bigotry towards not only fellow Christians, but also Myra Hindley, who in my view is not unequivocally - and certainly not irredeemably - evil.

Big Ian, by the way, runs a little church he founded with his dad. He'd be flattered to know you rank him up there with the pope!


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:53 PM

Sorry about all that emphasis - not convinced it was entirely my fault this time!


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 08:51 PM

I must agree with Big Mick that Orange songs are part of the history of Ireland, and an attempt to suppress them is an attempt to rewrite history. But they cover no one with glory, and presenting them in a setting of approbation is pretty awful. Just as awful as Fionn picking up the Orange ball and running with it.

My 25-year marriage is a mixed one; and it has lasted this long in part because we can rib and josh each other about religion as well as other topics, but never with venom or hatred and never to hurt.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:13 PM

Listen, my friends. There is no need for this thread to descend to where it seems to be headed. And Bud, I don't believe that Fionn is picking up the "Orange Ball". I took his post to simply mean that there is more than enough in either sides religious leaders to make some arguments about hypocrisy. The simple fact is that this isn't about religion. It is about hypocrisy, civil rights, and economics. Let us ignore this lad, as he seeks to fan the flames of division. The more we respond to him, in any way that gives him credibility, the more we validate him in his own mind. Let us respond to one another in a civil way, and ignore those whose motives are clearly to sow seeds of division. A spirited debate is one of the things that this place is about. Flaming and namecalling is not.

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: DougR
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:34 PM

No, Fionn, my only objection was your pairing me with Conrad. Happy to sing with anyone anytime.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Den
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:37 PM

Heres a recent story and its true incidently. In the little village where I was born in Northern Ireland the local people, in light of the peace process and hope for better days to come, decided that there should be a day to honour their village, the place where they all grew up and the home to generations of their families. Ballymartin is the name of the place by the way at the foot of the Mourne mountains.

Anyway a committee was struck, comprising members of all religions, and they decided to have a parade and a village feit. Saint Joseph's pipe band was invited to play in the parade which they agreed to do and in order to keep things even the committee approached the local Orange Order to see if their flute band would parade aswell. They declined the offer to parade with a catholic band.

Now it seems to me that in Drumcree the Orange Order were prepared to do anything in order to parade along a road. Now here were the good folks of Ballymartin giving them the chance and they turn it down. Its a funny old world. Den


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 11:00 PM

Folks, don't misunderstand....Jacking with Conrad is no big deal...He's a jerk and most see that. He's well known around at other places. He will only leave when he feels like leaving.....He's not susceptible to shunning or the like. He's an experienced troll. In his case, do whatever because he won't care.

However....As to discussions of NI, they are a part of this place and as Mick said, spirited debate is always acceptable.....but in the end, let's try to remain friends and agree to disagree while we all hope for peace in a place where there has been very little. Let's all leave as the friends we are and as we began.

Except for Conrad who's just around......and a bigot. To hell with him.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 07:41 AM

Spaw, spirited debate is not just acceptable--it's the life and spirit of Mudcat. I love the give-and-take and merciless needling, as long as it is done in the spirit of fun. Conrad and those of his ilk are not a whole lot of fun.

And I apologize to Fionn if I misunderstood him (or is it "Fionna"?). I like Irish people of both colors, as long as they leave their shelelieghs [sp? Why can't the Irish spell things the way they're pronounced?] at home.

And finally, that Ballymartin Orange pipe band is a bunch of idiots with no music in their souls. How many great jams would never have taken place if no one would jam with people of the "wrong" religion?

Bud


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 08:25 AM

Ballymartin! BALLYMARTIN! Massive thread creep, sorry.
It's a small world... I used to go out with a fella from Ballymartin (I'm from a hole-in-the-hedge in County Down too) and although I'm still good mates with him I haven't been there in a while. Mind you, I'm off hiking across the Mournes tomorrow, from Rostrevor to Newcastle, so I might get a wee trip to Ballymartin yet. Thread creep ends!


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 01:22 PM

You must be an adventurer Fibula to have heard of Ballymartin let alone have an ex beau ;-). What was his name if you can tell. Den


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:03 PM

I have heard of Ballymartin. Isn't it mentioned in the "Quiet Man"? Or in.... somebody help me.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:21 PM

Don't think so Sinsull. Ballymartin is in the north of Ireland in south Co.Down about 30 miles from Belfast. The Quiet man was set in the Republic of Ireland. Den


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:58 PM

Rostrevor to Newcastle...via Ballymartin. Now that would be a decent day's walking, Fibula! Will you follow the wall to Windy Gap, or go the long way round along that marked route? Anyway, good luck - it'll be tough enough even without that Ballymartin detour.

Bud (or is it Buddleia?) You're not the first to have voiced a doubt,arising from that nickname I foolishly gave myself. But getting back to the thread, yes I think you misunderstood. No problem. Thanks for explaining, Big Mick. Looks like that pint's on me.

Peter Kirker (AKA Fionn for reasons long since lost in the Celtic mists)


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Amergin
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 04:54 PM

Fionn, I always thought you're name had to do with Fionn Mac Cumhail of the Fianna...


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Den
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 06:50 PM

I don't know Fionn I've done the Newcastle to Ballymartin (12 miles) many a time and under the weight of more than a pint or two, but back then there was always the after glow from the daliance with a pretty girl, ahhh youth, gone are the days. Anyway another 15 miles will bring you to beautiful Rostrevor. I wouldn't recommend cutting through the mountains thats a rather round about way. My name is carved into the granite in the windy gap by the way as is my mothers (her idea). Anyone notice how this thread has taken a turn towards the descent (sp). You see theres a whole other side to NI. Den


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 07:00 PM

The ascent of a thread to the decent! Good one Den- it's like a nice chat between friends, the trouble makers give up after a while. I'd love to be on the Mourne shore now......

Noreen


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Den
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 07:10 PM

Thank you Noreen, I knew I shouldn't have put that "s" in there. Ohh God girl you're right. Just for an evenings stroll between the Point and Ballykeel. Den


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Unk Met-Det
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 08:05 AM

Hi Fib Have a good walk, but a young slip of a girl such as yourself should keep clear of lusty young rakes. Anyway, Dug up any old relics lately? I have a feeling that you must be the only 'on line' archaeologist. Want to borrow my metal detector? see you soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 11:00 AM

I don't get all the confusion on Fionn's name. Of course he is a he. What the hell else would he be with a name like Fionn???...........................LOL. And Bud, what the heck's your problem with spelling shillelagh? Just sound it out. hahaha

Great to see a potentially bad thread lift itself up like this.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 11:08 AM

OK Mick here goes: shulaylee. Right? Maybe it's my Ne England accent getting in the way.

By the way, my Irish and Scots friends tell me that Gaelic is an extremely difficult language to master, although I think it is one of the most beautiful I have heard.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 12:11 PM

Well, Bud, that depends on which Gaelic language you refer to. The Irish language is known in English as simply "Irish". In Irish it is Gaeilge, which accounts for the confusion. Gaelic is a family of languages which includes Irish, Scots Gaelic (the only one in which it is proper to use the term Gaelic) and Manx. The other family of Celtic languages includes Welsh, Breton, and Cornish. Manx and Cornish, in their respective branches, are said to be extinct in that there are no communities that use them as their first language. But there are people in each of those area who are determined not to let the languages die.

The thing I love about the language and dialects of my people is that it has so many more shades than English, especially as it is spoken in the US. It lends an incredible depth to the language. But it does make it difficult to study, especially with no other speakers about. I have always felt that if I became independently wealthy (fat chance for a union organizer/civil activist) I would pack up and move to one of the Gaeltacht areas so that I could immerse myself and resurrect the lost language skills of my youth.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 12:47 PM

I know the feeling. I can speak Montrealese French, which is a type of patois nearly undecipherable to people who know European French. My 17-year-old dauaghter has just ensconced herself at McGill University in Montreal, where she is doing just what you mentioned: immersing herself in the language and culture.

I often think that regional dialects are more interesting than the "standard" forms of languages.

Hey, what happened to the Orange content of this thread?


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 03:34 PM

Mick, I don't understand these things but I sometimes use http://www.yourdictionary.com/. They group Manx with Irish and Scots Gaelic in the subgroup Goidelic languages rather than grouping them with Welsh and Breton which they call Brythonic languages. Unfortunately, the site does not offer a Cornish dictionary.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 04:36 PM

Sorry Mick - I'll learn to read one day!

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 06:06 PM

Fib, you'll have to turn in a post-hike report after all this. I half hope Conrad might come back to see where we went with his thread.*BG*


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 07:09 PM

Ffion, I think that one of the beauties of the Mudcat is that there are a number of people quite capable of rising above the crap and they can turn nasty threads in to fun threads, or sensible discussions.

I doubt seeing where this thread has gone would make any difference to Conrad. As spaw said, he is an experienced troller and I would go as far as suggest a master at his "craft". I am pretty sure that while people take his bait (and there will always be newcomers who don't know him), he will carry on regardless.

BTW, I did not state my viewpoint regarding the Orange songs earlier but I am in complete agreement with Mick.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Noreen
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 07:29 PM

You see, Fionn, (and Mick), Jon made the same mistake- glad it's not just me!
Ffion = welsh female name
Fionn = not!

Noreen


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 07:34 PM

Oops - sorry Fionn and I do know you are a male. I live in Wales and am used to spelling it the Welsh female way!

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,yum yum
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 09:36 PM

Jon well sus'ed out!

conrad is a folkie, he in my opinion was not out to start a row! Irish trad' ballads covers the whole spectrum, if we are to consider ourselves trad' folkies (whatever label you wish to place upon yourselves) it is all part of our past, no matter what way we look at our history. We can't change the past, we can live with it! Ballads tell us how others see history (looking back) as they see it.(from all angles) Irish Traditional music is LIVING MUSIC (so accept it and carry on) We can however form the future, by using the past as a yard stick.We can only get better. But what a past! The Irish have been abused by all ( most of all by our- selves )Do we not have the 'greatest'(for want of a better word) music in the world! come on, lets not fall out over something we cant change, by forming an alliance through music we can rise above the past. SHIT !!! I cant believe I've just written that. I have a black-bush just set in front of me, so Goodnight folkies, it's my birthday tomorrow ( so- folk u-all} Conrad I dont know your past, but I will be watching out for you in the future. You have the benefit of the doubt! SLAN yum yum.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,yum yum
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 09:39 PM

Sorry folks, I think I have seen the best of this bottle of Bush. Good night. Yum Yum.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 09:45 PM

Well yum yum, if you have had a bottle of Black Bush (or other Bushmills), I will forgive you everthything except not sharing it with me ;-)

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,yum yum
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 10:08 PM

Thanks Jon if you lived locally I would share it with you, BUT as you dont, I will drink your health!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 10:37 PM

Well yum yum, I turn 40 on Wednesday so I will drink your health then although I think I will be going down the Scotch rather than the Irish route for my whisky and it will probably be a glass of Lagavulin - my favourite of all the whisk(e)ys I have ever tried.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 01:19 AM

Bud, my grandma spoke the French dialect you're talking about as her first language. Then she went to a French-Catholic school, and had to learn both Euro-French and English. (And was made to be ashamed of, and to deny, her Canadian heritage) Some time, I'd really like to learn French the way it's spoken over there in Quebec.

Creep, creepy thread, creep!

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 06:47 AM

Now that you've nicely turned this thread into chat about oor charming wee Ulster, do you mind if I turn it back round again?

It seems to me that Michael's reason for giving the odious links was misinterpreted. I think it was meant to be a comment on Conrad's links, that Michael thinks they are of the same ilk. He was trying to use a more oblique approach than Catspaw! Personally, I find the white supremicist links more offensive than the Orange ones.

I looked up Michael's other contributions to the Cat and they are straight forward music. And I was surprised to hear that Conrad Bladey is a well known flamer, as I am familiar with his name as the contributor of countless Geordie lyrics to Mudcat. I tend to look at and participate in lyric threads more than in discussions and I don't have personal knowledge of Conrad's reputed darker side. I tried clicking on *Conrad Bladey # 1Peasant* in this thread and strangely got a notice that no records match this criteria.

I don't quite agree with Annroi's comparison. There are Loyalist songs and Loyalist songs, but most of them would be closer to the rallying type of Irish Nationalist songs such as The Boys of the Old Brigade or Follow Me Up to Carlow than to Bonny Kells Water.
for lots of Loyalist lyrics see the Ulster Orange Loyalist Songbook

For an essay with songs, see < a href=http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/DeptInfo/Staff/DGC/celtmus.htm>Celtic Minstrels and Orange Songsters by David Cooper (University of Leeds) also do a Mudcat forum search for "Loyalist"


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Quincy
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:49 AM

You're dead right Philippa!
There are Loyalist's songs and Loyalist's songs...just the same as with nationalists and there is nothing whatsoever to be ashamed of in celebrating our heritage.
Unfortunately, what sometimes starts with 'parodies' of songs can turn them into descriminatory and nasty.....as you say 'the rallying songs'
I'm a Prod myself from a Belfast family and would no more want to sing about being 'up to my neck in Fenian blood' (Billy Boys) than I would sing rebel songs! I'm very proud of my heritage but I'm no fan of violence or the encouragement of it. I know the songs from both sides and have been at 'gatherings' where the singing of songs has led to people on the same side fighting with each other!!!! It's the alcohol content that had the biggest influence!!
As for the 'tune' side of things....the truth is that if anyone stands in Belfast on the 12th of July or on the 15th of August for the Hibernians, the flute and accordian bands will be playing pretty much the same songs anyway cos it's only the words to them that are different!!!!

best wishes, Yvonne


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 08:12 AM

Phillippa, I don't think that the search likes "#" or maybe "*". A forum search for Conrad will work.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 08:39 AM

Post hike report as requested Fionn!
It was a hike organised by the Outward Bound Association in NI - £10 to enter and it goes towards bursaries for outdoor pursuits etc. You could do a 10 mile or 20 mile treck (in a fit of madness I decided on 20). We walked from Rostrevor along the Ulster Way (which follows the road inland along the Rostrevor Forest) then on to Windy Gap, followed the wall up Slieve Moughanmore (steep!), down the other side and up Pigeon Rock Mountain, then through about a mile of rushes and bog to Spelga Dam. Spelga was the stop for the 10 mile hike. We had lunch and a sock change at Spelga then set off across Butter Mountain, along the Ulster Way by Fofanny Dam, followed the Mourne Wall to Trassey, walked down the Trassey Track and into Tollymore Forest Park, and then through Tollymore and into Newcastle, ending in Donard Park. I was in a group with my current Significant Other and a couple of friends from work. We walked it all in about 8.5 hours (that includes a half hour stop for lunch). They gave us a can of coke and a medal at the end! A medal! Last time I got a medal it was for runner up in the Slip Jig when I was about 10 years old. Anyway, it was a beautiful day. The sun shone the whole time, the company was great and there must have been about 300 people in all enjoying the spectacular scenery of the Mournes. It wasn't the most picturesque route to take, but it was great fun and a very enjoyable day.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 08:46 AM

Den, the fella is a young man from Pat's Road (right down there by Ballykeel Bay) and he's about 26 years old now, but I don't want to post his name - he'd go spare if he found out I was discussing him on an internet forum!


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 09:17 AM

C'mon, Fib, you weren't really in Ireland. Not when the weather was sunny the whole time.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 05:06 PM

That's a tough eight hours you did Fibula. Is the Ulster Way the route they follow (mostly along the wall) on the Mourne Walk? In fact does the Mourne Walk still happen? Last time I heard of it there was concern about the environmental impact. Anyway, glad the sun shone. You could go out on the Mournes ten or twenty times and not get a day like that.

Constructive post, Phillipa, and I'm with you too, Quincy (Yvonne).I agree about the songs and I agree about Conrad - I too have yet to see the side of him that's earned him his reputation. Good links too - the second was quite thought provoking. Normally there would be a rush of gallant Mudcatters to repair a broken link - I'll not read too much into the slow response this time *BG* but here's that second link again, this time as a blue clicky I hope: Celtic Minstrels and Orange Songsters by David Cooper (Leeds University)

Forgot to say Amergin, you're quite right about "Fionn" - what's lost in the Celtic mists is why I brought my nickname into this forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:05 PM

Thanks for the link, Conrad.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:11 PM

I've heard an Irishman described as someone with a thick head and a thin skin. The responses to Conrad's posting confirms this,

I personally have no stake in either side, but I'm a bit furious at a concerted partisan effort to stifle the propagation of songs from 'tother side. This kind of knee-jerk political vituperation chased me off the IRTRAD list; I hope it doesn't chase me off Mudcat.

However argumentative and vituperative Conrad Bladey may have been in the past, there was nothing in his post that warranted the kind of insulting ad-hominem response that resulted. Stifle it! If you don't like the political contents of posted songs, ignore them.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Quincy
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:25 PM

Fionn......great link!!!! Made very interesting reading.

Dick, You've got a point there! I've just been looking back over previous threads from past months and there seems to be an awful lot of Nationalist/Republican songs.....Come out you black and tans etc.

S'pose it should be evened out once in a while..*bg*

Yvonne


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Paddy(1)
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:27 PM

For the benefit of those who want to know the correct pronunciation is 'shileala'

It is an actual place between Tinahealy and Tullow in the County of Wicklow in the Republic of Ireland

Nice pub/restaurant called Taylors and the village is picturesque

. . . and Conrad my opinion of you is lower than 'spaw's.

Paddy(1)


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:36 PM

This has nothing to do with the content of songs from either side or the middle.......Most involved in the NI debates only object generally to songs that still stress the deviseness of the situation. This has to do with Conrad. Ignore anything I have to say to him and ignore anything he has to say period. Conrad is an instrument of deviseness in both NI and the 'Cat.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:44 PM

I can't say I have any worries about the songs. I remain unsure about Conrad's motives for posting that particular link. My wish for NI is for peace and personally, I don't consider a site publishing an article like this: http://www.orangenet.org/ethnic.htm particularily helpful.

Jon


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Subject: Predjudices
From: Brendy
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:54 PM

"I've heard an Irishman described as someone with a thick head and a thin skin. The responses to Conrad's posting confirms this,"

Care to elaborate, Dick?

B.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 08:10 PM

No problem. I've noticed that every time there's a post with an orange flavor, the common rules of courtesy vanish, in a flare of Republican hysteria. Not just on this site, either.

The poting that started this thread, whatever the motives of the poster was basically nob-emotional and was a link to some music. Now go back and admire the next dozen or so posts to this thread.

Case made.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Brendy
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 08:12 PM

Where's the Republican hysteria, Dick? Case not even begun.

B.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: paddymac
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 09:04 PM

There's a bit of humor to be found in song titles on occasion. For example; we do a tune called the "Dumore Lasses". One of our members went on-line looking for it and found several versions, each different, and each also known as either the "Fairies Hornpipe" or the "King of the Fairies". My personal favorite, which I would like to dedicate to Conrad, and three alternative names: "Dunmore Lasses - King of the Faeries - William of Orange". I have encountered sly references to his appetites in various readings, but this was the first time I ever encountered such a thing in tune titles. *BG*


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Brendy
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 09:08 PM

Ahhhhhhhh........!!!!!

Velly intellesting.......

B.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 09:34 PM

Well, I haven't a drop of Irish blood (or whiskey) in me, and I find bigotry unpalatable, whether it's Orange, Green, white, or black.

There are zillions of Ulster songs that are always worth a singing. I recall a woman from the Republic saying that it was a pity that so many of the great Irish songs seem to come from the North. She wasn't referring to songs of hatred, but to the kind that bring us together.

Anyone who wants to spew intolerance can find websites devoted to it. Mudcat is not one of them.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Den
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 10:45 PM

"I've heard an Irishman described as someone with a thick head and a thin skin". What are you some kind of fucking moron, making a comment like that. What are we cartoon characters to you. Grow the fuck up...or better still read. Den


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 12:22 AM

Dick, you know I think the world of you, but your post indicates that you didn't check Conrad's postings to this forum in the past. He is an accomplished flamer and troll who seems to get his gratification from starting a fight with bigoted posts and links to sites that if you would follow through them as Jon did, you would see that it isn't about the music. It is about promulgating the same crap that has gone on forever. He is isn't about music. The music is a vehicle for him to spread the same old crap.

And most of the posts, with a couple of notable exceptions, indicated that all of the posters (Nationalist and Loyalist alike) felt that the legacy of the Orange music is important to preserve. If you were to do a check on my posts, you would find that about 2 years ago there was a post in one of the threads by me in which I believed that this was important music to preserve. I still feel that way. It is not what my family would sing, but it must be preserved.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 07:57 AM

Go here for orange songs and history of celebration http://www.bcpl.net/~cbladey/orange.html

was a post from Conrad about six weeks ago. There was no response at all. Now Conrad writes,

YES indeed a page of orange songs in real audio a good site! http://www.orangenet.org/songs.htm Clickit here

and gets this load of reactions above. What's the difference? The capitals in the thread title?
The reaction the last time was the better by far, in my eyes. And if you respond, as Dick said, you're wiser if you respond to what was said and not to what you think the intention was.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 08:28 AM

Which proves how wrong I was. I apologize. In wanting to squash this miserable snake and his insidious devisivenes, I contributed. Certainly the other got no response, because we left it alone to die which is the accepted procedure for dealing with the likes of Conrad. Since I believe he will never leave anyway, I made the error of jacking with his dumbass for the simple enjoyment of it and once again Conrad, through me, proved devisive. My fault. So what happens next?

Conrad will keep trying. No one doubts the importance of preserving the songs of tradition. However, every time you respond to Conrad in ANY way....thanking him or acknowledging his posts even when they're fine (rare), we will continue to allow that hatemongering he cloaks. Is it in any way possible to completely shun him? Totally? When you say, "Thanks for the link," you are in essence saying, "Maybe Conrad has changed." He WILL NOT and he HAS NOT and it WON'T HAPPEN. COMPLETE silence toward him may work although I doubt it....but it is worth the effort I suppose.........Otherwise we fight with ourselves and he gets what he wants.

Yeah, I shouldn't have done it. Was it wise? No. Was it warranted based on what scum he is? Yes. Was it worth what it causes around here? No. But people PLEASE......Quit standing up for the guy. The leopard ain't changin' the spots and nothing is worth befriending this lowlife piece of manure. Don't THANK him!!!!

My cynical mind believes it won't happen. Someone will come to his defense....this time and every time. Someone will respond. My fault this time. Who's next?

Try not to be.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 08:55 AM

Wolfgang, The last time Conrad made a post, he was advertising his site in five separate threads and it did attract some hostile replies - please check your facts.

Also, Conrad supplied a link and, viewing and commenting on that link is part of responding to the post and whether you like it or not is relevant. Conrad had posted a link to a site which IMO continues to spew poison.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 08:56 AM

I'm trying to figure out whether I agree or disagree with you, Spaw. Wolfgang and how many others have been able to exhume Conrad's old bowel movements, so not commenting on them might have had no effect. While most of us are on Mudcat to get along, enjoy each others knowledge and wit, and learn, there will always be a few who are here to stir up the cesspool. It's arguable that when the Conrads of this world try to get people to hate each other, they should be put in their place and their thinly disguised bigotry should be exposed for what it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:14 AM

OK, I've checked now, Jon,
Conrad posted that link five times on one day, on July 14th, this year, and in four threads he got no response at all. In one thread there were two (perhaps three) responses. And that was when he put the politics in the foreground like this:

To learn the truth about the orange order go here -a comprehensive survey concerning tradition and celebration and song http://www.bcpl.net/~cbladey/orange.html

I still don't see why there were so many more responses this time.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:19 AM

My question, Wolfgang, is why there weren't more last time.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:25 AM

Well Bud, that was kinda' my original thinking, but like I say, it was as useless as any other tack and may have been worse. However it is, I apologize.

Wolfgang....You can see that the ignoring of him didn't work well from your posting because he came back with more blatant BS. The "why" this time was quite simply my fault as I am sick of his continual bigotry especially when its veiled in his "moral high ground" attitude. It got a big response because I pushed it. Sorry....my mistake. But he's still a viper...make no mistake.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:45 AM

This happens a lot. We respond to invisible things like someone's personality or intended motives, and not what was said. It's a pretty effective troll who can get this many replies by simply posting a link. If he was trolling, he won. Conrad is human, and has the capability of doing both good and bad things. We seem to encourage the bad. He has posted an enormous number of Newcastle songs with no reply. He does nothing more than post a link to a site with Orange songs, and it winds up being a monster thread with people jumping to beat the shit out of him.

I disagree strongly with most of the ideas he's expressed elsewhere and his methods of arguing, but I'll leave the fight to those who don't mind debating with someone who doesn't feel a need to use logic or truth. But this thread? Conrad didn't start this mess.

Spaw, the "defense" of Conrad seems more aimed at keeping the rest of us from turning into an internet lynch mob. You're right - he's not going to change. Are we? The nastiness we see in him seems to call forth the nastiness in us, and we feed off of that. It isn't a diet I care for.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 10:00 AM

Well jeri, your last paragraph could not be better and it is what I have been trying to apologize for. No, Conrad will not change. Will we? I personally will try and expect to succeed. Will others? Again, I hope so. But can we totally shun him? Well, its a long shot, but I hope so. Applauding him isn't going to make him anymore livable, so let's not do that either......even if he's elected Pope.(:<))

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,yum yum
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 10:30 AM

I think Conrad is a plant by BT, to keep all Mudcatters on line to bicker and fight. Anyway to a collector of traditional songs both sides Orange and Green (or which ever way you might wish to look at it)is highly collectable. Traditional ballads/songs cannot JUST be taken from one side only. That would be like learning the history of the 'Battle of Waterloo' from the french side only. (and everyone knows that Wellington cheated) I see no wrong in Conrad's thread, only, next time Conrad why dont you take a hike up the Mournes with Fib' before you start another thread. Well done Fib, have a good time in Bristol University (a wee bird told me) Yum Yum.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 10:39 AM

That's you again Uncle Metal-Detector, eh? Didya have a good birthday?
Ach, at the end of the day all songs are worth saving. Whether or not we like them is personal opinion. We're all big enough to listen to them and make up our own minds and it's not up to us to censor for others. If Conrad is out to flame, that's his problem. I liked it better when we were all talking about mountains. I don't want to discuss the merits of Loyalist/Orange/whatever songs anymore than I want to discuss Wolfgang's occasional postings of Republican/Nationalist songs (no offense Wolfgang, and I read your comment that you welcomed recent songs of any nature) so I just don't mention or comment any of the things that might annoy me. Sure if I did, I could be on here all day whingeing.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Yum Yum
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 10:51 AM

Then Wolfgang might be a mole for BT as well! sorry Fib but who is Uncle metal detector? I have worked out who Fibula is. The Bone recoverer, am I not right?


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 10:59 AM

Ex-Bone recoverer, soon to be bone recoverer once more. And if you're not my Uncle Metal Detector (see further up this thread) you share the same birthday and taste for puns.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Yum Yum
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 11:17 AM

You mean he is young (27ish) good looking, witty, likes Bushmills and a goog session of Trad music. There cant be two of us! maybe, now JUST maybe I could be Conrad or Wolfgang keeping you on line to line BT's deep pockets. YUCK !!! what a thought, God forbid. NOPE I'm afraid I am just wee Yum Yum. Who is uncle metal detector?


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Peep-Bo
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 11:24 AM

1..2..3..4..


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Yum Yum
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 11:29 AM

nice one Peep-Bo, now try A..B..C..D


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 11:29 AM

Hmmm. A good-looking, 27-ish, witty Bushmills drinker? Nah, I would've remembered.
Uncle Metal-Detector is my uncle. He owns a metal detector. Hence the name.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Yum Yum
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 11:42 AM

I cannot tell a lie ! 26ish beer swilling toe-rag punk-rock roadie, but I do like going for hikes! I know, your next line is "Take a hike, Fat boy" honest I,m only 9stone but I wear jumpers three sizes too big for me and I puff my cheeks out to make meself look tough. But I threw you for a moment didn't I.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 11:57 AM

Hmph. Last time I let a Bushmills drinker into my house he boked on the sofa. Granted we did drink the entire bottle in one sitting (our prizewinnings from a highly successful night at the Katy Daly's Pub Quiz).


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 12:02 PM

Always heed the likes of Yvonne and Wolfgang who can with the side's point of view. Spaw is so far entrenched in the one side of his own argument, he can't even see that the intolerance in this thread started with him and not Conrad. He'll get more from life when he gets that hatred out of his system - just a pity has has to dump on this forum in the meantime.

Jon Freeman, in what sense was that link you gave here "not particularly helpful"? It seems to be mostly anecdotal accounts by protestants about how their communities have broken down. Very helpful reading. I would have thought, for anyone interested in how many people on the unionist side have got locked into their present mindset. As for the site "spewing poison," perhaps you could give some examples of what you had in mind. I must say I found nothing comparable with the poison Spaw has spewed here - even in his supposedly apologetic postings.

In most discussions I wouldn't need to spell this out, but as in this forum I will now be accused again of "running with the Orange ball," I will just state explicitly that the so-called loyal orders are responsible for a great deal of outrageous and indefensible bigotry. The only point I am making here is the narrow one that Conrad's post, and the link he gave, in no way justify the infantile response they got from some other contributors.

And Brendy, any time I've heard that phrase that Dick used, it's been entirely tongue-in-cheek. Between friends, as I am sure Dick thinks he is here, it's just legitimate banter.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Yum Yum
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 12:09 PM

Fib, was that the night you got a free pint for telling the dirty joke about half strength viagra. sorrt about the sofa!


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 12:13 PM

I am sorry Fionn that you can't accept my apology here. I freely admit that I spewed the hatred as you suggest and that it was a mistake. As far as to whether I

As to whether I enjoy my life, well........that's a tough subject to address here isn't it? I assume you are devoid of hatred?

I dunno........I'm enjoying mine and I hope you are doing the same.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 12:13 PM

Definitely not, I wouldn't tell such an unladylike thing!


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Brendy
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 01:04 PM

And Fionn. I suggest that you let that person answer for himself, and to not go around reading peoples' fucking minds.

You're a bit of a wind-up merchant, yourself.

B.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 04:25 PM

It is time for me to let this drop but for the record, Wolfgang, the 5 posts in fact did spark off a 6th post complaining about Conrads posts. In that thread, suggestions were made just to ignore it and I would suggest that was why it died down so quickly. It is here: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.CFM?threadID=23311

Fionn, I suppose one can view an article in different ways and it is possible that this particular article could be used in the manner you suggessted but I find it hard to belive that an article entitled "Protestants Feel Brunt Of Ethnic Cleansing", opens with "Ethnic cleansing pursued by rampant republicanism throughout Northern Ireland has changed the faces of many districts" and then uses the anecdotes you mentioned to reach the conclusion "The stories of these men, and others, certainly proves the point that ethnic cleansing of Northern rieland has been widespread over the past 30 years." was written with such intentions.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 04:57 PM

Big Mick, Spaw et al--

I yield to no person in my admiration for the Irish---I can think of no island nor country of comparable size that has produced so much marvelous music.

I DO object, however, to what appears to me to be rude, insulting and hysterical attempts to squash any dissenting voices. If you don't like Conrad, fine. That doesn't mean that an initial posting like this one should provoke the flood of abuse that followed.

If Conrad (or anyone else) is puhing your buttons, maybe your buttons are to sensitive.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 05:15 PM

If this is to be framed as a Free Speech issue:

1.Rather than 'squash dissenting voices' IMHO the trend has been to point out that C. has crossed the line to 'shouting fire in a crowded theater'.

2.do not the 'anti-Conrads' have as much right to express their thoughts as he does?

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 06:08 PM

Brendy, I was only giving my take on a saying that seemed to annoy you. Don't forget you can send messages privately if you don't want them exposed to comment in the thread.

Catspaw, no I'm not devoid of hatred alas, which is probably a lot to do with why I don't get the most out of life. But if I gave vent to it all here, it would take the tone of this forum lower than anything we've seen yet. My concern before your last post was that visitors to Mudcat will see in your earlier postings (including ones where you were apologising) unpleasantness that brings discredit on the forum. But that last post was a big-hearted apology all right, being free of any equivocating. That's hard to do - too hard for me most of the time, however wrong I've been.

Well yes, OK Jon, it doesn't look good! To say the least, a breathtakingly one-sided view of the ethnic cleansing that has been going on certainly since 1969. But for better or worse, that's the way they see it and I thought that reading the anecdotal stuff was a good reminder that some of those prods are ordinary decent families born into a nightmare in which only those with exceptional strength of character can see the other side of the coin. If nothing else, I've learnt that Derry City football club once had fans in the Waterside. Anyone know what the club song was (or is, now they're back in business)?


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Brendy
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 06:15 PM

"..Don't forget you can send messages privately if you don't want them exposed to comment in the thread..."

Fionn?

Go play on the railway lines, will you?

I know what options are open to me in this forum.

B.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:54 PM

Dick, I am not 'Spaw. He can take care of his opinion and I will take care of mine. I believe that a careful reading of my posts will show no trace of hysteria. I further believe that if you were to read all of this persons posts on this subject you will see that his intent has less to do with devotion to cause than it does with spreading bigotry and hate. I am not responding to just this thread, but I believe you are. When Conrad has been posting Geordie lyrics, I generally just note them and copy off the ones I like. He is a good source. But when you read his posts on this subject, not only here but in other Forums, you can see his intent clearly. You also know from several years of watching me that I enjoy debate. It promotes understanding. I enjoy give and take and I enjoy getting the perspectives of folks with a different take than mine. Several times I have acknowledged having an opinion of mine changed. But this person could care less about give and take, his goal has nothing to do with understanding. He is no better than the occasional asshole who comes in here spouting Republican propaganda. If you think about it, I have sent some of them packing as well, despite my Republican leanings. I don't want bullshit propaganda. I enjoy debate. Conrad doesn't do any of this. He just leads you to horseshit websites like this one and pretends that it is about music. Enough said on this. I am outa this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: ORANGE SONG SOUND FILES ON LINE
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:59 PM

Dick, I am not 'Spaw. He can take care of his opinion and I will take care of mine. I believe that a careful reading of my posts will show no trace of hysteria. I further believe that if you were to read all of this persons posts on this subject you will see that his intent has less to do with devotion to cause than it does with spreading bigotry and hate. I am not responding to just this thread, but I believe you are. When Conrad has been posting Geordie lyrics, I generally just note them and copy off the ones I like. He is a good source. But when you read his posts on this subject, not only here but in other Forums, you can see his intent clearly. You also know from several years of watching me that I enjoy debate. It promotes understanding. I enjoy give and take and I enjoy getting the perspectives of folks with a different take than mine. Several times I have acknowledged having an opinion of mine changed. But this person could care less about give and take, his goal has nothing to do with understanding. He is no better than the occasional asshole who comes in here spouting Republican propaganda. If you think about it, I have sent some of them packing as well, despite my Republican leanings. I don't want bullshit propaganda. I enjoy debate. Conrad doesn't do any of this. He just leads you to horseshit websites like this one and pretends that it is about music. Enough said on this. I am outa this thread.


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