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Lyr Req: Mrs Stein Don't Rent to Gypsies Any More

rabbitrunning 21 Sep 00 - 12:51 AM
Terry K 21 Sep 00 - 01:21 AM
Barbara 21 Sep 00 - 01:24 AM
CamiSu 21 Sep 00 - 09:01 AM
Jeri 21 Sep 00 - 09:49 AM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Sep 00 - 05:36 PM
Branwen23 21 Sep 00 - 06:31 PM
The Beanster 22 Sep 00 - 01:20 AM
InOBU 22 Sep 00 - 06:14 AM
Beezer725 14 Apr 11 - 08:41 PM
Charley Noble 15 Apr 11 - 09:01 AM
GUEST 02 Dec 16 - 01:27 AM
Jack Campin 02 Dec 16 - 12:23 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 02 Dec 16 - 12:51 PM
Mo the caller 02 Dec 16 - 01:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 12:51 AM

Barbara,

The possible tie to an actual event fascinates me. If your friend is willing to think a bit, could you narrow the possible dates a little? It can't be that hard (in this lovely internet age!) to find an archive that might have the Kerrville paper.

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Terry K
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 01:21 AM

Beanster, I agree wholeheartedly.

I have explained earlier in the thread that my points are made regarding my personal experiences of the "travellers" who visit my local area. These people are not gypsies, but are what we would "categorise" (if I'm allowed to!!) as tinkers. And before some other touchy person jumps down my throat, no, I am not saying that "all tinkers are like that". But many are like that and I stand by my criticisms of those who are. And of course I am happy to support anybody who behaves acceptably, no matter who they are.

I would have thought it fairly obvious that one's comments are made from personal experience of particular situations. And I would have thought it equally obvious that in mentioning these experiences, of course I am not saying that anyone who lives in a caravan is by necessity a bad person.

It's just that with 30 years experience of the type of behaviour mentioned above, it rather pisses me off to hear the sweeping generalisations of support for people who behave that way expressed in this thread.

It seems that some people will support the so-called "oppressed" simply because they claim to be "oppressed", regardless of the issues. Prejudice in favour of something is still prejudice, particularly to those who are not in favour.

But it is useful to be able to air these thoughts, if only to try to remove some of the romantic notions of those who have not had similar experiences.

Cheers, Terry


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Barbara
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 01:24 AM

My friend's not on-line, rr, and I put too much time this morning looking, but I'm not sure if the setting is in Texas. (I have this recollection that when he introduced it before, 10 or so years ago, he said it happened in LA) I also spent a while trying to find Tim Henderson, who Peter thought had a web page. Someone else who's got more time or is a better searcher than I (not hard to be that) is welcome to give it a shot.
Branwen, or any of you other Texans, you know anything about Tim Henderson?
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: CamiSu
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 09:01 AM

Terry

This is so hard. You say there is a 30 year history with this particular group of people. Is it all skirmishes like this or has there been any negotiation? It seems you are in a vicious circle, they feel unwelcome and so trash the place and make no effort to engender your well wishes, so you dislike them and drive them away, so they dislike you and don't care about your property so... you get the idea. The trouble is someone has to break the cycle! And the only person you have control over is yourself. If we all wait for the other guy to make the first move we will remain in the same trouble.

Believe me I know how hard this is. I have a neighbor who has a light he put up on purpose to shine in our bedroom, after we'd solved the problem he had with our dog. He has not changed the light back, and I'm really shy about asking he do so, finding it easier to do nothing but resent him. And this is a really small issue compared to what you have...

Good luck!

CamiSu


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 09:49 AM

I met someone from South Africa back in 1981 when aparthied was still going strong. She told me that black people she'd seen acted like bullies, and were rude, loudmouthed and coarse. She asked me if they acted that way in the US. I told her some did, most didn't, but if I were made to feel like mainstream society would be happier if I'd just disappear, I'd probably act that way too. I think there was and is a lot more going on than that, but I think it's true that if a society forces a group to remain apart, it's bound to turn into an "us vs. them" situation.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 05:36 PM

Blood on the saddle - it's strange the way some songs that in themselves are not funny at all, and are about something real and tragic get turned into joke songs. The same with The Titanic. There are planty of genuinely funny songs to sing. I think we ought to try to sing songs like that with respect - but it's bloody hard, what with the way people tend to join in in a mechanical singalong way.

Lack of the ability to use imagination about other people's troubles isn't restricted to people responding to "tinkers" stopping in the wrong place.

But surely nobody could sing Wreck on the Highway in a jokey way? And done straight, it might well upset people, but it shouldn't offend them.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Branwen23
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 06:31 PM

Barbara-

Sorry, I don't know anything specific of Tim Henderson...

I do know that the guys credited him for the tune on the cd...
Maybe they know something about his whereabouts...

I'll see what I can find out, but I probably won't talk to them for at least a few days...


-Branwen-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: The Beanster
Date: 22 Sep 00 - 01:20 AM

Thank you, Terry, for your response. You and I are on the same page. I was glad to hear (read) your explanation and I guess I did make the assumption that you objected to the defense of people who are outside the mainstream, in general. I think I felt your anger in the initial posts so much, that I didn't know if you were seeing the forest for the trees. But it seems that you do have perspective, despite your 30 years of bad experiences. Fair play to you. And I hope something can be done to improve what sounds like a tremendously difficult situation.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Sep 00 - 06:14 AM

Well, Well, Well,
A month in Wiltshire and this is still going strong! Joe Offer, my old friend, as you see, my request for good taste, rather than censorship, (taste is when no one posts - censorship is where you - the government here - removes the lyrics) set the really racist and bad taste lyrics in the context of a really good discussion which I belive got folks and folkies thinking about their steriotypes about my folks. I really appreciate even the remarks like, Gypsies make a mess so the song is right - to paraphrase a few comments, now late at night, and me trying to be brief. Happy to be back and see that we are still struggling to understand these songs we sing,
Back from the road
Lor (InOBU)


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Subject: Lyr Add: THIS TOWN IS NOT THEIR OWN
From: Beezer725
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 08:41 PM

There are a lot of posts on the matter, needless to say, I didn't read all of them word for word. I was interested in knowing who all recorded "This Town is Not Their [or Your] Own?" I have one on cassett that has a different fourth verse from all the ones I've come across so far. Here is my version:

THIS TOWN IS NOT THEIR OWN

In a cloud of dust they rode,
Covered wagons down a lonely road.
Happy people laugh and sing
And hear the bell of freedom ring a while,
And the countryside's their own.

Now the town is drawing near;
Parents eyes begin to shift in fear.
While their children still play on
Not knowing they can never settle down
Because this town is not their own.

'Round the camp, the fires are hot;
Hungry children gather 'round the pot.
But some will go to bed tonight
Without a bite of food, or heat, or light
Because this town is not their own.

When they protest the fights begin.                        
"Do you think you are fit human beings?        
You don't pay a penny tax        
Yet you dare to come and ask can you come in,
Aye, and make this town your own."                                
                                                                
So once more they're on the run
Out to face the cruel wind and sun.
Land of saints and scholars, we
Have lost the precious gift of charity
And we don't recognise our own.


I do not know who's arrangment this is; I do not recognise the voice on the recording, although I know it is over 20 years old.

Also, if anyone is interested, regarding the "Moving On Song" - Dick Gaughan did a wonderful redition of it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mrs Stein Don't Rent to Gypsies Any More
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 09:01 AM

I've just reviewed this whole thread and certainly the discussion covered the whole range of what shouldn't or should be sung or even posted. But, finally, the lyrics to the song in question were actually posted.

This song definitely was composed as a "humorous song," to amuse some at the expense of others. But it's not what I would consider a humorous song for a general audience. It's also not what I consider "gallows humor" which is more like "Blood in the Saddle" or even "Wreck on the Highway" in the way my gang used to sing it as "immortals" at college as we cruised back from a late night concert or party.

A lot of the housing or tenant songs that I collect are also "gallows humor" in that the situations described by housing organizers are often desperate, and sometimes absurdly desperate. Usually the landlord is the villain rather than the tenant, which provides political focus to the songs, the "downtrodden" ridiculing their "oppressor." That doesn't necessarily make for a good song, nor even a fair song, but it is understandable in its context. Some of the old IWW songs fall into the same category such as the parody of the scab "Casey Jones."

Substituting other groups (such as students or yuppies) for "gypsies" in this song is an interesting exercise. However, I still find it mean-spirited. Substituting other ethnic groups for the homeowner "Mrs. Stein" is also an interesting exercise; she's most likely introduced as representing a particular stereotype as well and we're supposed to laugh at her plight. One could also argue that this is a historical ballad based on a newspaper story but no one has tracked down that story; it's true that news stories can be more bizarre than the most absurd composed song.

So I'm wondering what the original poster of this thread has done with this song now that he's finally harvested the lyrics. Does he sing it at concerts, and what is the reaction? Or is it filed away as another novelty song to present at an occasional song party or session?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mrs Stein Don't Rent to Gypsies Any More
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 16 - 01:27 AM

Mrs stein don't rent to gypsies anymore is by the late great Austin tx songwriter Tim Henderson.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mrs Stein Don't Rent to Gypsies Any More
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Dec 16 - 12:23 PM

It appears that by "late great" you mean "disgusting pig-ignorant bigoted lump of shit". (From the CV in his obituary he appears to have been something small-time in the CIA).

BTW I don't know what this comment from InOBU meant:

Little Black Sambo is about tigers and pancakes.

The original Anglo-Indian book (with Bannerman's own illustrations) is in no way racist and that comment fits it literally. The American adaptation of it is white supremacist filth. There are TWO DIFFERENT BOOKS involved, and virtually nobody on either side of the Atlantic will ever have seen the version known on the other. (I've seen many copies of Bannerman's original but only know the American one via scans on the web).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mrs Stein Don't Rent to Gypsies Any More
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 02 Dec 16 - 12:51 PM

There is a short biography of Tim Henderson at the webpages for the Texas State Historical Association. It makes no mention of Mrs. Stein, nor of the people she won't rent to, although it goes down a list of other song titles written by Henderson.

The biography says that Henderson started out life in the Appalachians of West Virginia, before life took him to Austin, Texas.

Austin, Texas is also the location of the University of Texas -- Austin, where a Ph.D. professor named Ian Hancock (born in England) is a long-time, dedicated advocate for the Roma. You ought to hear HIM waxing wroth about this song!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Mrs Stein Don't Rent to Gypsies Any More
From: Mo the caller
Date: 02 Dec 16 - 01:38 PM

"
Little Black Sambo is about tigers and pancakes.
The original Anglo-Indian book (with Bannerman's own illustrations) is in no way racist and that comment fits it literally."

Except that it is about 'funny people who aren't like us, and do odd things.'


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