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Lyr Req: Mrs Stein Don't Rent to Gypsies Any More

The Beanster 18 Sep 00 - 08:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Sep 00 - 08:02 PM
Mbo 18 Sep 00 - 07:49 PM
The Beanster 18 Sep 00 - 07:35 PM
Jed at Work 18 Sep 00 - 06:50 PM
Mbo 18 Sep 00 - 06:47 PM
Jon Freeman 18 Sep 00 - 06:42 PM
Branwen23 18 Sep 00 - 06:29 PM
bbelle 18 Sep 00 - 06:24 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Sep 00 - 05:37 PM
GUEST 18 Sep 00 - 05:01 PM
Bert 18 Sep 00 - 04:57 PM
dick greenhaus 18 Sep 00 - 04:47 PM
Barbara 18 Sep 00 - 04:46 PM
mousethief 18 Sep 00 - 04:31 PM
DougR 18 Sep 00 - 04:24 PM
catspaw49 18 Sep 00 - 01:43 PM
mousethief 18 Sep 00 - 01:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Sep 00 - 12:02 PM
rabbitrunning 18 Sep 00 - 09:15 AM
My name Jo 18 Sep 00 - 09:12 AM
sophocleese 18 Sep 00 - 09:09 AM
dick greenhaus 18 Sep 00 - 09:00 AM
SINSULL 18 Sep 00 - 08:49 AM
CamiSu 18 Sep 00 - 08:23 AM
The Beanster 18 Sep 00 - 02:41 AM
Lepus Rex 18 Sep 00 - 01:51 AM
Terry K 18 Sep 00 - 12:26 AM
IvanB 18 Sep 00 - 12:00 AM
catspaw49 17 Sep 00 - 11:38 PM
CamiSu 17 Sep 00 - 11:24 PM
Mbo 17 Sep 00 - 11:10 PM
Áine 17 Sep 00 - 11:06 PM
dick greenhaus 17 Sep 00 - 09:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Sep 00 - 02:01 PM
Branwen23 17 Sep 00 - 02:01 PM
Terry K 17 Sep 00 - 01:47 PM
katlaughing 17 Sep 00 - 01:12 PM
Terry K 17 Sep 00 - 01:04 PM
CamiSu 17 Sep 00 - 09:35 AM
Roger in Sheffield 17 Sep 00 - 09:00 AM
Joe Offer 17 Sep 00 - 04:17 AM
Terry K 17 Sep 00 - 02:15 AM
MAG (inactive) 16 Sep 00 - 01:39 PM
Joe Offer 15 Sep 00 - 09:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Aug 00 - 06:18 PM
DougR 23 Aug 00 - 01:46 PM
Brendy 23 Aug 00 - 01:27 AM
DougR 23 Aug 00 - 01:22 AM
Brendy 22 Aug 00 - 08:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: The Beanster
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 08:18 PM

I disagree Mbo. I think phrases like "gypsies come in bunches like bananas on a green banana tree" IS hateful. It's dehumanizing. Stereotyping is one thing and it definitely has that, but this song goes way over that line.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 08:02 PM

"What you just said is: It's okay to perform a nasty, vile song, if the reviled are not in your audience."

I think that is roughly the opposite of what I said. It's definitely the opposite of what I mean to say.

What I meant was that if anyone has a song to sing which could be seen as being nasty about the Irish, the place to sing it is in front of an Irish audience, and so forth. (There is such a thing as self-disparaging humour, and Finnegan's Wake is an example that I'm happy to sing, in the right comnpany. Pat Murphy probably isn't.)

If the Blarney Brothers sang their song in the midst of an an audience made up of Gypsies, and the audience thought it was a great laugh, I might revise my opinion of it. But I'd advise them to stop singing it until they have tried that. And I'd advise them to think long and hard before they do try that.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Mbo
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 07:49 PM

Let's no go overboard here. The song is not hateful, vicious, etc. It is a stupid stereotyping song. And stereotyping is rotten. I think that's how I'd describe it, offensive, rotten, and insulting. It could be worse, but either way it's stupid. There is a song similar to this that I HATE that always makes it's way into Reader's Digest songbooks, called "Nagasaki" which has insulting lyrics like "Down in Nagasaki, were the the people talk wicky-wacky, and they all check on tobaccy.." etc. It's not vicious, or heinous, but I think it promotes nasty stereotypes which RESULT in vicious and hateful and hurtful feelings toward the race, ethnic group, culture, named. As an Italian, I find "That's Amore" especially stupid and stereotypical, and I don't like to hear it. Others might think it's a classic. "Mrs.Stein..." is, on the other hand, NOT a classic, and as Holmes says in Doyle's A Study In Scarlet, "I shall do my best to forget it."

--M


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: The Beanster
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 07:35 PM

Reading that Pat Murphy song, I suppose it could either be taken as black humor or as a scathing commentary. I think it would, at least partly, depend on how the singer presents it. Introduce it with a light-hearted tone and people will probably chuckle because they'll relate to the troublemakers. Introduce it in a dead-serious tone and people will probably feel sad and appalled because they'll relate to Mrs. Murphy and Pat Murphy.

The difference between the two songs seems to be that The Night Pat Murphy Died has the flavor of being written by one of the insiders--an Irish person--and if that's the case, we know that this person is chastising just those particular people who acted like idiots--not all Irish people.

With the Mrs. Stein song, it seems to come from the viewpoint of an outsider which leaves the distinct impression that the derogatory commentary is not directed at just a few "bad apples" but at the whole group. That's what makes it so vicious, in my opinion. If it were written by a Rom ABOUT Roma, even if it were about the same type of misbehavior and one specific incident, it wouldn't be offensive, I don't think. It wouldn't contain the outrageous, demeaning generalizations that make this song so hateful. Does that make sense?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Jed at Work
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 06:50 PM

LOL@MBO - wait a minute; this is not a humor thread. Shame on you for joking!!

;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Mbo
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 06:47 PM

But if you don't think twice, it's alright.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 06:42 PM

Brarbara, when I was a kid and did something wrong, I used to say "but so and so did...". My dad would reply to me "2 wrongs don't make a right".

Jon


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Branwen23
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 06:29 PM

good point, Barbara.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: bbelle
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 06:24 PM

MoH ... What you just said is: It's okay to perform a nasty, vile song, if the reviled are not in your audience.

I don't think you meant to say that.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 05:37 PM

"What is the difference between this song and The Night Pat Murphy Died?" - well they've got one thing in common, they're not great songs either of them.

Sung by an Irish singer in an Irish pub, it might be tolerable fun. Sung by an anti-Irish bigot, it'd be something else entirely. And there are plenty of those around.

And maybe the Barney Brothers are not consciously anti-Gypsy bigots, I definitely don't think they are Gypsies, are they? And I don't think they perform before many Gypsy audiences. Though perhaps they might like to try it some time...

And it's not entirely irrelevant that there were hundred of thousands of Gypsies killed in the death camps. And the survivors came out to a world where they have continued to be persecuted.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 05:01 PM

yaeh mcgrath of hollow, ya got that? the word has come down from dick greenhaus. so get with the program.

and have respect there boy. dick greenhaus is one of the top folk nazis here.

oops, i forgot i'm not supposed to say folk nazi anymore.

dick greenhaus is one of the top mudcat nazis here.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Bert
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 04:57 PM

Well said Spaw.
Doug, I don't think it's funny either.
Barbara, nor is that song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 04:47 PM

McGrath of Harlow- If someone asks for a song, it is clearly nobody's responsibility to provide it (except maybe mine). That's not the point.

I just don't think it's appropriate behaviour to scream about how bad the song is until it's made available. This goes for the Horst Wessel song, too; it's not anyone's place to tell someone else what he wants (or should want).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Barbara
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 04:46 PM

A question:
What is the difference between this song and The Night Pat Murphy Died?
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 04:31 PM

For some reason I keep thinking of that Neil Diamond "You Don't bring Me Flowers" song. Perhaps something along the lines of:

You don't hate Latinos
You don't call black folks "niggers"
And you don't play "Rents to Gypsies" any more....

Maybe not.

Alex
O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: DougR
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 04:24 PM

It's not a funny song. Can't imagine people finding it funny.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 01:43 PM

Thanks for seeing and saying mousethief.......notice I didn't say Ratso.........

Censorship is pretty much abhorred across the board here. These songs often involve long and nasty argument though and I don't care if someone wants to post lyrics, but I understand also why some would not want to post them themselves. Aine IS something special.

I guess what troubled me more here was the feeling that no matter what the feelings or knowledge was of Aine, Larry, and others who DID know this ditty, we literally insisted to some degree that we "see them for ourselves." Now I understand wanting to "see them" in that context, but I also have an old fashioned sense of loyalty and trust in people, like Aine, who have proven themselved to me and at times I am willing to take the word of such a good friend and also to respect their wishes. I guess that may endorse censorship, and if it does, so be it.

For that which I believe, I am willing to fight and protest. Anyone knowing my history that has been around here awhile will attest to that. Freedom is an illusion as I'm sure you are aware from your philo background. When it comes to deciding upon loyalty and friendship versus those illusory freedoms, I opt for the former everytime.

BTW mousethief, I'm glad you're here now. Your posts are always excellent and I look toward getting to know you better. Have a nice one Ratso.........uh, mousethief.(:<))

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 01:13 PM

I don't know if I'd recognize a Roma (is there a plural of this? This is the first time I've seen the word, but if it is acceptable in place of the older "Gypsy" I'll be happy to add it to my vocabulary) if one stood next to me in line at the supermarket. Perhaps they dress differently than the housebound, but heck, this is Seattle, and dressing "differently" is hardly shocking here anymore.

But this song is really a nasty little piece of work. Thank you, Aine, for posting it, as much as it must have scalded your fingers to type it. You are a true gem, and I have nothing but respect for you. You are a credit to every bloodline that you grace.

I'm glad we've seen the words. Now we can comment on it from a position of knowledge rather than ignorance, and now that I have that knowledge, I must say: BLEH! I would NEVER sing this song, nor knowingly purchase a CD/cassette/dvd/whatever that has it on it, nor attend a Blarney Brothers concert until they swear off the thing.

Prejudice and hatred are an evil thing, as is censorship. Just my US$.02.

Alex
O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:02 PM

Normally songs are posted by people who think they are worth singing or listening to. This time it was posted under pressure by someone who quite rightly thought it was offensive rubbish.

I hope this this isn't a precedent, and that it doesn't mean that if someone does ask for the Horst Wessell song I should feel a duty to post the words, or give a link to a Nazi site where they can be found. (I just checked that is true, with a standard search engine - and I can tell you there are even worse songs than that out there.)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 09:15 AM

Thank you, Aine, (sorry, don't know how to do the diacritical mark) for actually posting the lyrics. Yes, I agree that the song is pretty offensive, but I also think that it needed to be posted to ground the discussion in something solider than suppositions.

I am with Joe on this one. We need to see the lyrics -- even the offensive ones -- in order to discuss a song fairly. I think that powerful personal narratives are important here too, but saying "I find this song offensive, and this is why," is very different from "Don't post this song because it might offend me."

Okay, I'm new. But I did bring my own soapbox!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: My name Jo
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 09:12 AM

The song is trash. As I just mentioned in the other thread, I don't think that it's a coincidence that "Mrs. Stein" was given a common Jewish surname. Miami is also popular as a retirement/winter destination among the Jewish community. I think the songwriter's intent was to sow, or to create, resentment between two groups.

I would like to know the name of the songwriter. Credit please, where credit is due.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: sophocleese
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 09:09 AM

dick, you do speak so sensibly. Its a lousy, nasty, little song, but I needed to see the lyrics myself to understand how bad it was. Thank you Áine.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 09:00 AM

Thanx for the lyric. If anyone recalls, a request for this was the starting point of this thread. It would have made much more sense for the criticisms, attacks and vitriol (all justified) to have been held off until people got to know what was being attacked.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 08:49 AM

Screw the song. I am in shock at how many times I have seen 60 Minutes cover "gypsy scams" ranging from fortune telling theft to hungry children stealing wallets or heard our own local police attribute a crime to "The gypsies - you know that they are back in the park" and never gave it a second thought. Had they said it was the neighborhood Jews or Colombians or ANY other racial group I would have been furious enough to complain to the local precinct. Had InOBU not objected,I would probably have put this song in the same category as "Who Threw The Overalls In Mrs. Murphy's Chowder?" - silly, unkind, but harmless. Nasty business and I have been a part of it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: CamiSu
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 08:23 AM

It IS quite awful. I would not be comfortable hearing this in public, nor even in private, and certainly wouldn't buy a CD with this on it!

Cami Su


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: The Beanster
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 02:41 AM

After reading this thread and not knowing the song, I was thinking to myself, oh, how bad could the song be? People are so overly sensitive...well. I've changed my tune. It's not funny, it's not harmless, it's mean and horrible. And spaw, I don't think the Blarney Brothers are blood-thirsty monsters (think you went a bit overboard there with the fiery airline crash thing) but they are being extremely insensitive when they sing this cruel song. Perhaps someone should point this out to them.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 01:51 AM

What a crappy song. Unfortunately, nomadic peoples still seem to be considered 'safe' targets for bigots. There have been several 'news' programs on, I think, NBC, over the last few years, all about how Roma, travellers, etc. are a bunch of shifty, incestuous, old-woman-robbing welfare abusers. Has anyone else seen this garbage? I'm not sure if they still churn it out. I hope not. :(

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Terry K
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:26 AM

The song is completely inept and utterly trite in its overstatement. If I were a gypsy, or any kind of traveller, I'd be offended.

But on a point of principle (and only that), it still means it should be ignored rather than banned.

Terry


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: IvanB
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:00 AM

Áine, I'm sorry it fell on you to have to post the lyrics. 'Spaw said it all. They managed to hit just about every traveler stereotype I can think of.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 11:38 PM

The problem is Meebo, its not.

Aine, you have alwyas had my respect and my friendship for whatever its worth, but you have doubled that tonight.

What a complete piece of tripe.....and worse. Funny? just good clean fun? Just a little cute song? Read those lyrics and tell me you love it. I suppose I should applaud these guys for singing it huh? Just a little harmless poking fun at the gypsies?

I bet an airline crash cracks these guys up. Especially a big fiery one that hits a school. I'll be looking forward to their take on that.

Geeziz.........gimmee peace. Yeah, stuff like this deserves to be preserved alright. So glad we now have these warm and sensitive lyrics to enhance our understanding of what bigotry is all about. If you didn't find this little ditty offensive, maybe you were thinking of another song huh?

Sorry Aine. You are the very best my dear.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: CamiSu
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 11:24 PM

Terry,

Had you said the ones in my neighborhood did so-and-so I would have assumed you knew this from experience. It does not, however, mean all are like that any more than all white males are insensitive boors. 'Tain't so! Perhaps I should have said 'All generalisations are false, including this one.'

But as you have seen on this thread, travellers, like all people come in many flavors. To paint them all with the same brush is hurtful and unfair. This applies to a rosy-hued brush as well as a demonizing one. You will bump your nose on reality either way. But I'd much rather make the mistake to the good than the bad, and who knows? We might all be surprised when someone behaves better than even they themselves expected! (There have been studies done with teachers being told their students were either above or below average, when they weren't. In either case the teacher got what s/he expected.)

Cami Su


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Mbo
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 11:10 PM

So...all the contention over this little stinker? Instantly forgettable.


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Subject: Lyr Add: MRS. STEIN DON'T RENT TO GYPSIES...^^
From: Áine
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 11:06 PM

Mrs. Stein spends her winters in Miami
And she lets her home to tenants while she's gone
And last year she let her small home to some gypsies
With a discount if they'd take care of her lawn

Well, the gypsy king he swore they would be careful
They would mow her lawn and prune her roses too
Yes he swore they would be the best caretakers
Taking care as only gypsies seems to do

That rental was the ruin of her little sweet abode
For they grazed their horses on her lawn and sold her flush commode
And to keep the fireplace going, they tore out her hardwood floor
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore

Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey hey

Mrs. Stein forgot that gypsies come in bunches
Like bananas on a green banana tree
They snuggle up to shelter, warmth and comfort
And last year, you know, we had an early freeze

Well, the word had gone out fast to all the gypsies
That the tribe of old King Yanosh had found a home
There were cars from Texas, made in Massachusetts
Gypsies got there from _____, and some from Rome

They were sleeping in the attic; they were sleeping on the stairs
Used the basement as a bathroom, really lent the place an air
And to keep the fireplace going, they tore out her hardwood floor
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore

Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey hey

In her living room, they opened up a barre jour
And when the neighbours came to call, they ripped 'em off
With crystal ball, tarot, palmistry and tea leaves
Picking pockets of the ones that came to scoff

Well, the things they did annoyed her irate neighbours
(Musical break)
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie

You could hear their gypsy violins 'till dawn
For they dragged her Persian carpet to the garden
And they built this raging campfire in the lawn

There was laughing, dancing, singing, and the sound of tambourines
Some errant neighbours' husbands were discovered at the scene
And they helped to feed the campfire with what looked like hardwood floor
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey hey

Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey hey

Then at last one irate neighbour called Miami
(Spoken) "Hello, Mrs. Stein?"
And she told her Mrs. Stein just how things stood
(Spoken) "I hope you've got good insurance, and you're out of beer."
With the gypsy violins and raging campfire
Gotta wonder where the gypsies found the wood

And perhaps the gypsies read it in the tarot
Or perhaps the gypsies saw it in the stars
But the minute that her jet plane left Miami
They began to load her furniture in cars
(Spoken) "Get the hot tub, the ______ machine, the whips and chains -- unintelligible -- and leave the bidet right where it is)

They regarded household fixtures and their private treasure trove
Ripped up the sink and ice box, the cabinets and the stove
And as one last gypsy gesture, stole the last of hardwood floor
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey hey

Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 09:48 PM

So where are the lyrics?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 02:01 PM

I live on the Essex Hertfordshire border, and we've got Gypsy Travellers here, some on council provided sites, some living in houses. Every now and then some are passing through, and move in on an empty patch of derelict land and camp for a few days, and you get people saying the same kind of stuff we've just been treated to. And I find that kind of talk personally offensive, just as I'd find the same kind of talk about other ethnic groups.

Most of the Gypsy Travellers I have known are people whom I'd sooner have them as neighbours than the kind of people who say that kind of stuff. And I have had them as neighbours too, and good neighbours.

And of course there are dodgy people living in caravans, just as there are in houses. And there are people living in caravans who make the same kind of offensive generalisations about housedwellers as some housedwellers do about Travellers, and that doesn't help either. And when they feel under threat, they gather in larger nuymbers for protection, and that makes them seen as invaders.

But the real people who mess up the countryside live in houses. When a group of travellers move it can look messy - especially when they've had to move on in a hurry because of harassment by housdwellers, official and unofficial. And people who are insulted and treated like vermin are often going to respond by acting in line with the way they are accused of being.

I can think of a patch of ground where some travellers got moved on, and it looked pretty messy. A few weeks later, you wouldn't know they'd been here it was the kind of m,ess that merges in and disappears. But it doesn't look like that now - housedwellers put down concrete parking places for their own cars, and big iron fences as well. It's a permanent eyesore now. Quite legally.

And the reason I worry about the kind of song that started all this is because it helps make people feel that it's all right to make those kind of offensive generalisations. And I don't want anyone under the illusion that this kind of thing doesn't matter. And that does not mean I object to the words of the song being posted here.

Here is a link to Another Spring, a song I wrote about this kind of stuff, on my website.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Branwen23
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 02:01 PM

um.... if anyone still cares, I have the cd.... Anyone who would care to hear the song, PM me your email address and I can send it to you as an attachment.

Please specify MP3 or WAV format. If you'd prefer not to receive so large an attachment in your email, or are unable to, I can give you a link and instructions for downloading it.


-Branwen-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Terry K
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 01:47 PM

Kat - your friend from the UK is wrong in respect of the majority of travellers, who are typically "tinkers" or "didicoi" - nothing whatsoever to do with the hippy culture.

All things need working on from both ends, but it always seems to be the decent majority who have to make all of the running. I'd be really impressed to see the travellers make some effort to be "less unacceptable" - but I'm not holding my breath.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 01:12 PM

According to what one friend in the UK told me: groups that are commonly known as Travelers there, now, refers mostly to leftovers from the hippie era, who travel around to fairs and such and who do, in general, make a huge nuisance of themselves. It seems unfortunate that the label has been co-opted, so that one might not even be referring to any Roma, at all.

Generalisations and sterotypes have to be worked on at both ends, if we are to educate one another and realise we are all one race: the Human race.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Terry K
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 01:04 PM

Cami Su - don't get into that thing of "if you don't know ALL of them you can't have an opinion".

In the small county of Hertfordshire where I live, successive groups of "travellers" have put down their temporary roots - sometimes for several years, until the local authorities have given over land especially for them - without them having necessarily made any contribution to the society that they have decided to grace with their presence. And you can take it from me that, taken as a whole, they are an absolute pain - there is only so much you can tolerate before you end up saying, enough is enough. Yes they do leave their temporary "homes" in one hell of a state. I don't care what "everybody knows" the mess that is their legacy is there for us to see throughout the year.

I know that Hertfordshire is a popular place with the travellers because they are treated better here than in other counties. In return they treat the locals extremely badly and nobody will persuade me that that is a fair way to behave, nor is it an example of a "prejudicial generalisation" - which comment, incidentally, I take as personally offensive.

So its alright for someone to say something personally offensive and directly at me, but not alright for me to have a view about something which has had a directly adverse affect on my life for the last 30 years. I see.

My input is based on fact, here, now, for real (come to Hertfordshire and I will take you less than 4 miles to demonstrate my point - reasonable people would be appalled at how they live among us).

Once again, it is a case of the world putting its head into the sand so as to cling on desperately to the romanticism attached to minority groups (I love to sing "Thirty Foot Trailer" in the shower!) - unfortunately the reality is less than romantic.

I mentioned in my previous post that one has to be careful about making criticisms - some people have just proved they will do anything except get real.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: CamiSu
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 09:35 AM

Terry--

Do you know this 'fact' about travellers from experience with all of them? Or are you reporting what 'everyone knows'? Most times the latter is not factual, and often just plain wrong! (Example, my AFSer from Norway tells me that most of the crime, and especially sexual crime, is committed by the 'foreigns' (sic). Oh. Really?) We have had, and sadly still do have those kinds of ideas floating around the US, too. We need to expose those ideas for the myths that they are so that they lose their power.

Cami Su


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 09:00 AM

Fascinating - ignored the thread earlier as I thought it was just going to be the lyrics to a sad stereotyping song. If the song is challenging and has a twist of '...the gypsies repair the delapidated house and in return are entertained by the wild music and dancing of the locals....' then lets hear it

Roger


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 04:17 AM

Well, heck, I wasn't going to say any more about this, but what I was hoping is that we could see the lyrics, and then learn what it is that is offensive - so that we could avoid causing offense. I was hoping we might learn why we should NOT make prejudicial generalizations like "their most overt fault of leaving a massive mess everywhere they go."
But it looks like the whole thing is getting nastier and nastier. I had hoped that wouldn't happen.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Terry K
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 02:15 AM

Hear hear Joe.

Why is it that certain "liberals" support the rights of criticised groups yet are vehemently against the rights of decent people to state their criticism?

You have to be very careful around here (UK) if you want to criticise "travellers" (who are usually not gypsies) even if only for their most overt fault of leaving a massive mess everywhere they go, to be cleaned up at public expense because they can't be bothered to clean up themselves. (Why do they have to make such a mess in the first place - no doubt the liberals will claim this is "part of their traditional way of life").

At the risk of alienating many Mudcat friends, I tend to be with Mrs Stein on this.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 16 Sep 00 - 01:39 PM

I agree, Joe. I think the lyrics ought to be posted so we all can read them.

As one of the people who has actually heard the song, I feel free to post my opinion of it. If you go back to the top of the thread, that is what you will see.


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Subject: Lyr Req: doesn't rent to gypsies
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Sep 00 - 09:04 PM

Well, I understand that the Blarney Brothers have a new CD out, and that it has "Mrs. Stein Doesn't Rent to Gypsies" on it. I certainly hope that somebody will post the lyrics to this song that has caused such controversy in this thread.
You know, I really don't think that a song should NOT be posted here, simply because it is offensive. I don't think we should have self-appointed Thought Police stomping around here, beating up on people for expressing ideas they consider offensive. Same thing goes with the "Folk Nazi" controversy. Maybe the term is considered offensive to some, and maybe it's in bad taste. That's not the point - the person who used the term meant no offense at all.

So, I expect this song to be posted, and I don't expect to see any more of this bullshit of censorship by bullying and badgering the people who dare to express ideas around here.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 06:18 PM

I am quite happy to admit to being prejudiced against anything that sounds like racism directed at people who have been persecuted and are are still being persecuted. And this song from everything I have seen about it in this thread sounds like it fits into that category.

If it turns out that I'm mistaken, and that what sounded liked racism wasn't anything of the kind, I'm quite happy to revise my opinion. And I'd be very pleased to be able to do so.

And the same goes for the other prejudice I have to admit to, which is against any band that would give itself a name like The Blarney Brothers. But that is a minor point. But anything that gives comfort to people who hold prejudice against Travellers is not a minor issue.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: DougR
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:46 PM

'Tis true. DougR


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Brendy
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:27 AM

I didn't read it either way, Doug.

However, Jews and Gypsies in the one song, and both stereo-typed; could have been written by a Nazi, for all we know.

B.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: DougR
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:22 AM

Hmmm. I didn't read Barbara's message as being an advocate for that particular song, Brendy. It appears to me she is just stating a fact. es not so?

DougR


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Brendy
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 08:38 PM

Indeed Barbara.

And you know what they say: Two wrongs don't make a right.

B.


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