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Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'

DigiTrad:
CHICKEN ON A RAFT


Related threads:
Background Info: Chicken on a Raft^^^ (29)
Chicken on a Raft (25)


Gurney 07 Apr 21 - 06:00 PM
GUEST,Observer 04 Apr 21 - 05:31 PM
GUEST,watcher 04 Apr 21 - 09:27 AM
ripov 03 Apr 21 - 05:07 PM
ripov 03 Apr 21 - 05:06 PM
ripov 03 Apr 21 - 05:03 PM
Harry Rivers 14 Jul 16 - 02:25 AM
GUEST,James 14 Jul 16 - 12:20 AM
bubblyrat 03 Jun 14 - 03:47 PM
GUEST,JohnL 23 May 14 - 09:32 AM
GUEST 27 Jun 13 - 02:44 AM
Kampervan 27 Jun 13 - 01:43 AM
GUEST,Elc 26 Jun 13 - 11:55 PM
GUEST,Bandr 30 May 13 - 08:33 AM
MGM·Lion 15 Mar 13 - 12:40 PM
Uncle Tone 15 Mar 13 - 12:32 PM
MGM·Lion 15 Mar 13 - 05:19 AM
GUEST 15 Mar 13 - 04:26 AM
RTim 14 Mar 13 - 10:56 PM
MGM·Lion 14 Mar 13 - 06:37 PM
MGM·Lion 14 Mar 13 - 06:28 PM
Uncle Tone 14 Mar 13 - 05:30 PM
Gibb Sahib 14 Mar 13 - 03:52 PM
MGM·Lion 14 Mar 13 - 03:33 PM
MGM·Lion 14 Mar 13 - 03:27 PM
The Sandman 14 Mar 13 - 03:16 PM
Uncle Tone 14 Mar 13 - 02:04 PM
Uncle Tone 14 Mar 13 - 01:56 PM
GUEST,Derrick 14 Mar 13 - 01:30 PM
eddie1 14 Mar 13 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,Diddums 14 Mar 13 - 08:52 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Mar 13 - 08:33 AM
bubblyrat 14 Mar 13 - 07:58 AM
GUEST 14 Mar 13 - 07:32 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Mar 13 - 07:19 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Mar 13 - 07:19 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Mar 13 - 06:50 AM
GUEST 14 Mar 13 - 06:28 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Mar 13 - 05:18 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Mar 13 - 04:30 AM
Rumncoke 13 Mar 13 - 10:48 PM
Uncle Tone 13 Mar 13 - 11:47 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Mar 13 - 10:52 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Mar 13 - 10:45 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Mar 13 - 10:30 AM
Dave Hanson 13 Mar 13 - 10:01 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Mar 13 - 09:04 AM
Uncle Tone 13 Mar 13 - 06:54 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Mar 13 - 04:26 AM
The Sandman 13 Mar 13 - 03:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Gurney
Date: 07 Apr 21 - 06:00 PM

I just read down this thread for the first time since it was put up.
I was a member of Cyril's club for a couple of years when I lived in Plymouth, and I once asked him what he thought of the Young Tradition's way of holding that note. He replied that he didn't care, "Just as long as they sing it."

By the way, Cyril had been a 'Tiffy,' an Engine Room Artificer, he told me.

Ashore, and out of the service, Rabbitting is usually incessant talking, as used by Chas and Dave in their song 'Rabbit.'


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 05:31 PM

The dear sadly departed MGM Lion was perfectly correct.

Cyril Tawney also now sadly departed did not own the expression.

"(Insert whatever) on a raft" - is "whatever" on TOASTED Bread OR ON FRIED BREAD.

Oh by the way all those who purport to have been ex-submariners particularly those on the diesel-electric boats that Cyril served on must know that when alongside ANYWHERE you messed ashore or on your Depot Ship - NOT on your own boat.

At sea, particularly on exercise while submerged the Skipper would do anything rather than waste battery power, so your diet was either Corned Beef and Onion Sandwiches or Herring in Tomato Sandwiches - Nothing was cooked.

"Dabtoes for'd and the Dustmen Aft" - describes typical messing arrangements on any small ship [Destroyers down] Dabtoes or seaman's messes were normally found for'd under the focsle, while the Dustmen or the Stokers were back aft. Applicable to submarines as the seamen messed for'd in the torpedo compartment and the Stokers messed aft nearest to the engines.

A Rabbit was something obtained in a foreign port to bring home as a present. While something that was "Ferreted" was something "acquired" by fair means or foul from within the dockyard or from another ship - [Best example of this I ever heard of was by a young Midshipman who was given the job of "Boats Officer" on his first ship. While in Portland during "Work-Up" he "borrowed" the ornamental Dolphins from Flag Officer Sea Training's Official Barge as he thought that his Captain's Barge had greater need of them - The Shit Storm this caused was epic and highly amusing, especially when he had to get them back and reinstalled without getting caught].

A "Homer" was something that you managed to get the dockyard to do for your ship off the books [On the sly] normally paid for with Duty Free Spirits or with Duty Free Tobacco.


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST,watcher
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 09:27 AM

At a performance in Exeter Cyril Tawney said he had heard some youngsters singing it as "skinheads on a raft".
When he talked to them he was amused by them explaining it was baked beans on toast!
An example of the folk process in action?


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: ripov
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 05:07 PM


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: ripov
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 05:06 PM

from "Mr Midshipman Easy", by captain Marryat(c1863)Would"..either by being sentenced to death by a court-martial, or by being dismissed, and towed on shore on a grating.." fit the bill?
Marryat also wrote "children of the new forest, in which deerhunting(in the days of muskets)is discussed,or at least taught to one of the young heroes by an old forester which may be of interestto those who contributed to a recent thread on the number of points on a stag royal
Books available on gutenberg(is that the correct spelling?) project


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: ripov
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 05:03 PM

fromMrMidshipman Easy, by captain Marryat(c1863)..either by being sentenced to death by a court-martial, or by being dismissed, and towed on shore on a grating.. would fit the bill?
Marryat also wrote "children of the new forest, in which deerhunting(in the days of muskets)is discussed,or at least taught to one of the young heroes by an old forester which may be of interestto those who contributed to a recent thread on the number of points on a stag royal
Books available on gutenberg(is that the correct spelling?) project


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Harry Rivers
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 02:25 AM

In Royal Navy slang, "The Jimmy" is the First Lieutenant, i.e the Captain's right hand man. He was widely known (unfairly?) for not giving much concern for the plight of the crew, hence he's "laughing like a drain".

Harry


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST,James
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 12:20 AM

I don't understand "the jimmy's laughin' like it'd rain"


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: bubblyrat
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 03:47 PM

Chicken on a Raft = egg (howsoever cooked) on fried bread or toast

Babies' Heads = individual steak and kidney puddings

A Spithead Pheasant = a Kipper

Trainsmash = tinned tomatoes and streaky bacon

Harry Thickers = thick pea and ham soup

Hammy/Eggy/Cheesey = self explanatory ( in Holland, an "Uitsmijter " )


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST,JohnL
Date: 23 May 14 - 09:32 AM

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 02:44 AM

I guess a greasy fried egg on toast would be an unwelcome sight a morning after a heavy night on the beer!


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Kampervan
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 01:43 AM

Yes, good isn't it?

Enjoy


K/van


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST,Elc
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 11:55 PM

I've never seen this forum, but if I'm reading the timestamps correctly, this thread is from 2000? And it's still active? WHAT?


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST,Bandr
Date: 30 May 13 - 08:33 AM

In South Wales in the 60s plimsolls were called daps or sometimes dabs (maybe they still are). Perhaps the Naval slang dabtoes or daptoes comes from the same source and means 'wearer of plimsolls'.

This is a theory and it's my theory. You can argue about whether or not it's right but you can't argue about it being my theory.

Bandr


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 12:40 PM

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

~M~


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 12:32 PM

Let it be.

Tone


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 05:19 AM

RTim, Derrick, et al ~~ surprised at your being so contentiously and toffee-nosedly disapproving. Why shouldn't Tone and I disagree on certain matters without your adopting this lordly tone of fastidious disapprobation? What's it to do with you, eh, what topics he & I choose to address one another on or the terms and tones in which we choose to do it? Just MYOB, you priggish & pompous persons!

~M~


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 04:26 AM

What's surprising to me is that this thread is alive after 13 years, and people are still posting and arguing the same things.


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: RTim
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 10:56 PM

Stop - When are you guys going to grow up??

Cyril thought Chicken on a Raft was Fried Egg on Fried Bread!
It seems not to be the only meaning of the term.
If you didn't know of the song - you would not know the term - unless you
were a between the Wars submariner!!
So the context of the original question was about the song and this is a list about music!

Therefore - Chicken on a Raft means - Fried Egg on Fried Bread!!

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 06:37 PM

Sorry, should have said first off ~~

Many thanks, Gibb, for your comprehending and sympathetic appreciation of my motivations & attitudes But some Tones can be an itty-bitty hard to convince.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 06:28 PM

Oh, good old canalwheeler aka Tone! Jumps up on the forum, determined to make an impact, and starts chucking his weight about; and expects us all to take him seriously & kowtow to his acute sensibilities.

Silly, aggressive, pompous, conceited, self-satisfied little jackanapes. We've seen his sort on here before. Wonder how long he'll last!

~M~


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:30 PM

Yeah but he's wrong and I'm right!

Simples.

Tone


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 03:52 PM

MtheGM has been pedantic, in general, in this exchange. I can see how that might frustrate Tone, et al.

However, the *first* entry by MtheGM really *did* make sense. Because, Tone, you jumped in with such authority, and in a style that seemed somewhat oblivious to the tenor of the discussion, to say "Guys, THIS is it; 'nuff said." MtheGM was simply reining it back, in a way, policing the discussion (in the way a good pedant does) to make sure it all doesn't sound too positive...that we don't all too sound *too* sure of ourselves. This is a "check" that is absolutely needed in "folklore" discussions. (The ensuing back and forth banter was not needed though, IMO!)

The careful style has as its possible negative aspect a tendency to be overly pedantic. Yet. scholars, etc. *need* to be pedantic for their work to have rigor.
The 'simple', direct style can be too positive. Yet, casual presenters may *need* to sound positive to address a given audience well.

You guys have very different styles.


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 03:33 PM

I think he is a prat; he thinks I am a prat
.,,.

Sorry, Dick. I meant of course that I think he is a BOOBY.

Almost let you down! Phew!


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 03:27 PM

Wow, thankee Dick!

Don't know who Tone maybe; but ne'er mind. I think he is a prat; he thinks I am a prat. Fair's fair, eh? LoL...

~M·the·erudite·articulate·argumentative·prat~


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 03:16 PM

still the thread is amusing,BUT nobody yet has been called a booby.
I have to give it to MGM he has style, he is one of the most articulate and erudite of ARGUERS,he reminds me of a cross between Don Quixote/Frank Muir and GB Shaw


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 02:04 PM

Oops. I said what I think instead of saying what is prudent to the site Sorry!

Tone


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 01:56 PM

I think nuff said. MtheGM has proved himself a prat, so lets leave it there, eh?

Tone


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 01:30 PM

The voice of sanity.
I just hope you don't set certain people of again


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: eddie1
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 12:54 PM

This thread which originally brought back some happy memories of Cyril & Rosemary had descended into the stupid "you said, he said but he didn't really mean what he said or if he did he should have allowed for all the other meanings of what he meant when he said what he said" kind of stupid point scoring which comes up all too often in Mudcat.
This tends to make me ignore Mudcat for some time then I return and see it all happening all over again.

As Tone said very clearly a few posts ago, th OP made it very obvious that he was looking for some help on the song "Chicken on a Raft" written by Cyril Tawney.

Why don't those who have a mind, start another thread entitled "Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft' (but the phrase, not the pseudo- shantey written by Cyril Tawney)"?

You can then argue to your hearts' content about the various meanings.

Eddie


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST,Diddums
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 08:52 AM

Diddums. I could say more but cannot bringmyself tomock the afflicted>>>>

Really?

When the above statement does exactly what you say it does not


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 08:33 AM

You persist in your argument what ever any one else says and resort to childish mockery in an effort to win.
Logic is one thing, stubborn persitence and sarcasm is another.,.,.,.
.,,.,.
Diddums. I could say more but cannot bringmyself tomock the afflicted>>>>


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: bubblyrat
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 07:58 AM

Some Naval slang from my 11 years ;
    Dabtoes - Seamen ,usually specifically boats ( cutter,whaler etc ) crews , as they wore white plimsolls.( US-gumshoes ?)
      Bootnecks - Marines
      Fish-heads - General Service (surface fleet ) sailors
       Airey Fairies - Fleet Air Arm ( naval aviation) personnel
      Joss Man - The Master -At-Arms
       Jaunty - ditto
      Joss Man's Runner - Miserable ,anchor-faced type who wanted to become a "Crusher" ( Regulator) the bastard.
       Anchor Faced - Excessively keen and enthusiastic about the Navy
       Big OD - Opposite of the above
       Big F - Commander (Air)
       Little F -- Lt.Commander (Flying)
       Pier Head Jump - An unexpected sudden draft (posting) to a ship
       Burbs - Rain coat
       Windy Burbs - Jacket ,Working ,Windproof
       Wanchai Burbs - Oriental bamboo and paper umbrella
       Pusser's Hard - Hard,unpleasant-smelling Royal Navy soap
         Dhobi or Dhobey - Washing , laundry
         Dhobey-Dust - Powder for above
         Dhobey-Bucket- Container for above !
         Magic Dhobey -Bucket - Washing machine !

   Shall I continue ?? There's lots more !


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 07:32 AM

The original poster 13 ago asked questions about the content of Cyrils song Chicken on a raft.
Numerous people since have explained what the terms meant and what Cyril meant by Chicken on a raft in the song,thus answering the posters Queries.
Some contributors also gave descriptions of what they called chicken on a raft, not what the song was about.
You have picked up on this and argued ever since that Cyril was not an authourity on what his song was about because what they called chicken on a raft was something else.
You persist in your argument what ever any one else says and resort to childish mockery in an effort to win.
Logic is one thing, stubborn persitence and sarcasm is another.


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 07:19 AM

amen


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 07:19 AM

zythum


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 06:50 AM

And now, O anonymous Guest, justify your contention that having the last word demonstrates that all else has failed. Don't see the logic of that myself.


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 06:28 AM

Yes, Tone! OK, Tone! There there, Tone! Have it your own way, Tone!

Feeling better now, Sweetiepops?

Forgot to add Three Bags Full, Tone...!


If all else fails at least make sure you have the last word!


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:18 AM

Forgot to add Three Bags Full, Tone...!


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 04:30 AM

Yes, Tone! OK, Tone! There there, Tone! Have it your own way, Tone!

Feeling better now, Sweetiepops?

☺〠☺~M~☺〠☺


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Rumncoke
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:48 PM

I used to ride a BSA A10, 650cc - rebuilt it in the dining room of a (ground floor) flat in Margate Rd Southsea.

There was a motorcycle shop in Elm Grove and they were rather bemused to have a person of the female persuasion coming in and buying bits for a motorbike - it was 1970 but there was a 50 year time lag as you went through their door.

I took the bike around to show them once I had finished it and got it back on the sidecar - a double Watsonian.

I used to carry all the gear for a couple of folk singers, and often folk singers as well. We used to go to various pubs, the Thatched House and Old House at Home on Locksway Rd - and the White Swan next to the theatre in the city centre, opposite the Yorkshire Grey, The Horseshoe at the end of Elm Grove and three or four more - we took a collection at half time, did quite well from what I remember.

Ah those were the days.

Oh - and when they were frying up breakfast, the cooks would test the heat of the hotplate by spitting on it - when the drops danced it was good to go.


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 11:47 AM

Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MtheGM - PM
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:30 AM

"No, Dave. I agree re 'the context of this song'; but we are not only talking of 'the context of this song'. This thread is about the meaning of the phrase, not necessarily purely within that one context ~~ look at its title."

And look at the OP's post. He specifically and immediately mentions Cyril's pseudo-shanty.

The matter was resolved long ago, way back in this thread. All you are doing is confusing the issue, and getting on your high horse because you can't admit that in the context of the OP's question, you are quite simply wrong, no matter how many times or how emphatically you repeat your error.

Tone


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:52 AM

Or, Dave, do you take as your watchword the 2nd stanza of Lewis Carroll's The Hunting Of The Snark --"

"...I have said it thrice:
What I tell you three times is true" -- ?

If so, you have only once more to say it; tho I am not sure that Carroll meant it to be taken as entirely trustworthy or unironic, whatever his character The Bellman may have thought. So even if you say it 30 times 3...

Still, if that's what turns you on...


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:45 AM

You made that point identically before, Dave ~~ 2 days ago. Why repeat yourself?


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:30 AM

No, Dave. I agree re 'the context of this song'; but we are not only talking of 'the context of this song'. This thread is about the meaning of the phrase, not necessarily purely within that one context ~~ look at its title. I know what it means in Cyril's song, thank you: I knew Cyril too, you know. A respectable online reference work I have consulted [0145 11 March] glosses it marginally differently. I am not gainsaying Cyril's connotation. Simply pointing out that, as you admit, it isn't the only possible one. So what are you both getting your knickers in such a twist about?

Get that?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:01 AM

In the context of this song chicken on a raft means fried egg on fried bread, because that's what Cyril meant it to mean when he wrote it, it may well mean other things to other people in different context's but in this case it means fried egg on fried bread, get it ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 09:04 AM

Well, everyone might not, Tone: keep on sighing.

But some reference works do -- see my post 0145pm on 11 Mar. Sigh all you like but you can't sigh all authorities away.

You call me pigheaded; why can't you get it into your thick skull that, in common with all folklore and many other artefacts and creations, more than one version can exist - and the one you happen to favour or like best -- & even the one Cyril Tawney did -- need not be the definitively most commonly accepted one?

Pig-head! & Big-head!


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 06:54 AM

Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 03:24 AM

"As everyone now agrees Chicken on a Raft is Fried Egg on Toast"

Sigh.

Tone


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 04:26 AM

I stayed in the old Dolphin a couple of times when using the JS sail training centre at Gosport.
It is army now and reverted to its old name of Fort Blockhouse.

I would always get a room with harbour views, surely the best in all Pompy.


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Subject: RE: Help: Meaning of 'Chicken on a Raft'
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 03:54 AM

a veritable curates egg., rather like this thread, good in places


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