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BS: Dylan is vastly overrated

GUEST,ray bucknell 12 Aug 01 - 08:44 PM
Little Hawk 11 Aug 01 - 09:54 PM
Big Tim 11 Aug 01 - 06:33 PM
GUEST,Frogmore 11 Aug 01 - 12:09 PM
kendall 11 Aug 01 - 11:44 AM
Big Tim 11 Aug 01 - 10:58 AM
kendall 11 Aug 01 - 06:30 AM
RangerSteve 10 Aug 01 - 07:28 PM
kendall 10 Aug 01 - 07:18 PM
Joe_F 10 Aug 01 - 07:09 PM
GUEST,Me 10 Aug 01 - 06:27 PM
radriano 10 Aug 01 - 06:06 PM
Shields Folk 10 Aug 01 - 04:12 PM
bob jr 10 Aug 01 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,Botticelli's Niece 06 Mar 00 - 08:58 PM
GUEST,The Beanster 06 Mar 00 - 07:55 PM
Froodo 06 Mar 00 - 07:48 PM
GUEST,The Beanster 06 Mar 00 - 07:06 PM
GUEST, Botticelli's Niece 06 Mar 00 - 06:43 PM
Amos 06 Mar 00 - 05:54 PM
Troll 06 Mar 00 - 02:40 PM
Amos 06 Mar 00 - 01:30 PM
GeorgeH 06 Mar 00 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Regis Philbin 06 Mar 00 - 09:36 AM
Spider Tom 06 Mar 00 - 05:22 AM
Troll 06 Mar 00 - 12:09 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 05 Mar 00 - 06:23 PM
GUEST,The Beanster 05 Mar 00 - 06:10 PM
The youngest BOB fan 05 Mar 00 - 05:38 PM
GUEST,The Beanster 05 Mar 00 - 05:02 PM
sophocleese 05 Mar 00 - 04:44 PM
The youngest BOB fan 05 Mar 00 - 04:37 PM
Peter T. 05 Mar 00 - 10:38 AM
sophocleese 04 Mar 00 - 06:18 PM
Mbo 04 Mar 00 - 05:59 PM
Art Thieme 04 Mar 00 - 05:47 PM
Ely 04 Mar 00 - 05:41 PM
Gypsy 04 Mar 00 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,The youngest BOB and HANSON fan 04 Mar 00 - 05:10 PM
Mbo 04 Mar 00 - 03:31 PM
Caitrin 04 Mar 00 - 02:34 PM
Paul G. 04 Mar 00 - 02:32 PM
Mooh 04 Mar 00 - 01:39 PM
Pontiac Joe 04 Mar 00 - 01:18 PM
GUEST 04 Mar 00 - 12:11 PM
Troll 04 Mar 00 - 12:05 PM
BK 04 Mar 00 - 11:48 AM
zander (inactive) 04 Mar 00 - 10:18 AM
Clinton Hammond2 04 Mar 00 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,The youngest BOB and HANSON fan 04 Mar 00 - 09:51 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,ray bucknell
Date: 12 Aug 01 - 08:44 PM

Never cared for his voice, but I do love some of the songs he's written. I've also noticed that an unusually large number of my 8-year-old's classmates, friends and teammates are named Dylan....

Ray


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 09:54 PM

I laugh when I see the title of this thread! I chuckle and grin. As threads go, it is vastly overrated.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Big Tim
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 06:33 PM

Kendall; never mind the semantics, you'll know it when you hear it, for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,Frogmore
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 12:09 PM

I have been an active songwriter and performer a long time. Those who do what I do all hold Bob in very high esteem. My guess is that the critics are generally "listeners" rather than "makers" of music. This is my perspective - do you think I'm close to being right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: kendall
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 11:44 AM

Define great.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Big Tim
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 10:58 AM

If Dylan weren't so great there wouldn't be all this discussion about his work. Having said that some of the nonsense spoken here almost makes me despair. No wonder Dylan has recently written "people are crazy and times are strange...I used to care but things have changed".


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: kendall
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 06:30 AM

Blowin' in the wind vindicates him in any case.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: RangerSteve
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 07:28 PM

Just like a lot of people who have replied to this thread, I do and don't like BD. I can't think of anyone whose work is consistantly good. Even my heroes have recorded some clunkers. And if someone really likes Dylan, it won't effect my life one bit. I don't quite understand why this tread was even started.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: kendall
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 07:18 PM

Ely, how about this:

Times on the railroad getting hard babe
Woke up last night and saw it snow
Remember what you said to me last summer
When you seen me walking down that road?

There aint no use to sit and cry now darlin'
Aint no use to sit and cry now
You know it aint no use to sit and wonder why darlin'
Just wonder who's gonna buy you ribbons when I'm gone.
Walking down that long lonesome road babe
You'r the one that made me travel on
Still, I cant help wondering as I go darlin'
Just wonder who's gonna buy you ribbons when I'm gone. etc.

Sound familiar? Dylan liked it well enough to steal the whole idea.

Steven Foster also wrote Beautiful Dreamer. I once had a girl friend who loved to have me sing that and play it on the 12 string guitar. They dont write them like that no more, eh, Doug?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Joe_F
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 07:09 PM

I bought a couple of his records when they started coming out in the 1960s. Indeed, I bought a turntable so I could listen to them. A human voice coming out of a loudspeaker! How refreshing! What a relief from gangster sleaze & mechanized tantrums! But that novelty wasn't enough to keep me buying his records, or even to keep me listening to the ones I had. And I never learned even one of his songs all the way thru.

So I guess, if I were into rating people, I would rate Dylan lower than the authors (many of them anonymous) of the songs & poems I have bothered to learn or have at least returned to over the years. However, I believe that such comparisons are worse than pointless; they are vicious. They are part of the apparatus of fame, and fame, in my judgement, is an evil. It is an old evil, deeply rooted in human nature, and made worse in recent times by technical progress. In all those respects it resembles war. I have no notion of getting rid of it, but at any rate I do not contribute to it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,Me
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 06:27 PM

Billy Joel is vastly overrated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: radriano
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 06:06 PM

Just another mental masturbation marathon on old Mudcat!


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Shields Folk
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 04:12 PM

He's done nowt since the Magic Roundabout.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: bob jr
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 03:58 PM

well now i dont know what anyones definition of overated is exactly but i know that i wouldnt be playing today if not for bob and that goes for alot of folks too. i figure he is one of the best songwriters of the sixties to come from america and his traditional material was always done in an intersting fashion. he wasnt no john hurt on the guitar but he wasnt awful either...most folks who play know about half dozen songs by dylan but townes van zandt? i mean he is good and all but i figure steve earl was drunk when he said that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,Botticelli's Niece
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 08:58 PM

The thread shall end, but in the end everything is always connected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,The Beanster
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 07:55 PM

AMEN, Froodo!


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Froodo
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 07:48 PM

And so the thread ends...

We all hope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,The Beanster
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 07:06 PM

Dear Boticelli's Niece,

Oh, here we go! lol I believe you are putting words in my ...keyboard. I didn't say that because a person wasn't around for a particular event that they can't have an opinion or be knowledgable about it. I do not, however, believe that the person to whom I was addressing the original posting holds a Ph.D., is a Bob Dylan scholar, nor a scholar of the period during which Dylan became known.

I truly do not care who likes Bob Dylan and who doesn't, or why, by the way.

Again, my point was that of course, everyone has a right to their opinion. zzzzzzzzzzz However, opinions must have a fairly solid foundation if they are to be taken seriously. That's it. I cannot bear to discuss this topic anymore. (But thank you for your opinion). :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST, Botticelli's Niece
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 06:43 PM

Dear Beanster,

Careful what you say about people's opinions. Saying that just because someone wasn't around for an event or a persons life doesn't mean that they can't have an opinion about it or be very knowledgeble on the subject. Just look at any history book or listen to a historian. You can have a PH.d in Ancient Civilization's without having lived at tat time. Any history book written is inevidebly going to have a little bit of the writer's opinion in it. That's why we can go to a book store or library and find many different books on the same subject.

As for Dylan, his music has always sparked a love hate relationship with the public. I think you have to look at how widely known his is right now while he is still alive. He is considered to be an icon and he is still living. With many artists (Not all. Because I know I will get some flack.) true fame and recognition doesn't come until after their death. Look at J.S. Bach. It wasn't until Mozart uncovered some of his work and writings that Bach received the recognition that he so rightly deserved. Dylan's popularity spans generations even before his death. He will be someone we will listening to and debating about forever.

Bottielli's Niece


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:54 PM

LOL!! You wannn funny dude, Meester Troll, even if you do live in a culvert...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Troll
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 02:40 PM

Sorta like dandruff; it's somethin' to keep 'em occupied while waitin' for the next soap opera.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 01:30 PM

In an open market, nothing is "vastly overrated" - as TYBF points out, opinion is an easy commodity, not easily measured against its own kind. Some members of the species learned this centuries ago when the phrase de gustibus non disputandum was coined; later the French developed "Chacun á son mauvais gout" (well, I modified it for versimilitude) meaning "Everyone's entitled to their own bad taste".

Others, however, have yet to realize that goodness and badness have basis other than opinion and spend lifetimes scrambling around disputing them...just the thing to pass the time away, I guess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GeorgeH
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:44 AM

Hey, we've been here before . .

G.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,Regis Philbin
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:36 AM

Final Answer: Bob Dylan wrote more enduring songs than any other songwriter of his generation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Spider Tom
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:22 AM

Like it or lump it
Bobby D..
Is set to be
The ruler,
By which others are measured.
Read, the words
Hear, the tunes
You'll realise,
Just why He's treasured.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Troll
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:09 AM

If the only people allowed to criticize Bob Dylan were those who could write as well as he could, he would have few critics indeed.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 06:23 PM

now, Bob has disturbed me and goaded and turned me.... He's written so many that all but have spurned me.... his meter is good, and his rhyming has learned me.... but the demeaner he took turned me off till he burned me.

But hand it to him I reluctantly must.... He got astride muses and rode them to dust.... he didn't content himself with cheap selling lust.... though his caustic derisions did rust.... I'm not sure but...Isn't all this what the legacy of a folk singer is all about?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,The Beanster
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 06:10 PM

Dear Youngest BOB Fan, No need to get snippy. lol I have no agenda to "take away" your view as I have not the ability, nor the desire. To answer your question, "Since when is any opinion not valid?" --When one does not have enough information on which to base the opinion. Indeed, you have a right to your opinion, as does everyone. (Besides, I was not referring to you, specifically, so why the defensiveness? Chill.) My point is, if one chooses to make her/his opinion known and if one doesn't possess the requisite knowledge to back it up, one runs the risk of appearing foolish.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: The youngest BOB fan
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 05:38 PM

Dear Guest_The Beanster-

You bring up a valid point- I was not around then. However, I still think that I may have an opinion even if an adult as yourself may think they may brush it off as they please. I can have an opinion on Bob Dylan and his music if a darn well want to, and I may express it openly because I have that right, even though you might want to take that away from me. And as for my opinion not being "valid"... since when is any opinion not valid? Silly me... I thought anyone can have an opinion on anything... but I guess The Beanster proved me wrong... :-


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,The Beanster
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 05:02 PM

I can't believe all this space being used to discuss a topic such as this. You either like Bob Dylan or you don't. Opinion. What's the debate?? If you are too young to have been around pre-Bob Dylan, you don't have enough information to form an opinion anyway, as his appeal was as much cultural as it was musical. And if you weren't there, you don't have a valid opinion. End of story. If you were there, you can type 'til you're blue in the face and you won't change the opposing side's opinion--and why would you want to?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 04:44 PM

Good for you Youngest BOB fan: how would you like that shortened for easier typing of replies?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: The youngest BOB fan
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 04:37 PM

YAY! I'm not a "Guest" anymore :) Just thought I'd share that with everyone...


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 10:38 AM

Sabra, Diamonds and Rust is about Dylan. You might enjoy hearing Joan's recent live album with lady friends, where she changes the ending giving him the boot!!! yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: sophocleese
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 06:18 PM

Fascinating thread this. Clearly some people do overrate Dylan. They are easy to recognize; they're the ones saying you are not allowed to presume to question or criticize him. Love him, hate him, take him or leave him, we're all different, but don't ever suggest that Dylan, or his music, is above being discussed and criticized.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Mbo
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 05:59 PM

I guess I don't have a real opinion about Bob Dylan. I don't usually buy CDs that much...most of what I know has come from libraries over the years, and my library only has Dylan stuff from the 80's, and not the more classic stuff that I hear about here. I do know that what songs I've heard of his, I've really enjoyed. "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35" is a really funny song--it always makes me laugh when I hear it. I guess my favorite song of his is "Don't Think Twice"...very powerful. But people attribute so many things to his playing and songwriting, I can't help but join in. He's part of our musical landscape...and love him or hate him, he was indeed a juggernaut who's effect is still being felt to this very day--as our own Youngest Bob Fan can fully attest to. Bang a drum for the heroes.

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 05:47 PM

Bald Eagle, I could've written your exact paragraphs---word for word. You hit the nail right on from where I'm sittin' all these years down the road.

On a slightly different topic: When banding birds, I could never get the little things to stay on the legs. Only the females seemed to present this problem. So I decided to band-her-snatch. Worked out great...

Art Thieme esq.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Ely
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 05:41 PM

I love both Dylan and Townes Van Zandt (in reference to Steve Earle). I don't think they're gods; I don't love everything they wrote and I don't love them exclusively. I don't listen to Dylan for his guitar ability (or lack thereof, if you want), and I don't mind a rough voice if it's not pretending to be anything else. But show me a better set of lyrics than "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right".


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Gypsy
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 05:40 PM

Hmmmm..... A man spends his entire adult life, writing, playing, and singing. Doing what is right for him. And someone has audacity to judge? Can't say that he ever sold out. So, like the music, or don't, but don't be quite so critical.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,The youngest BOB and HANSON fan
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 05:10 PM

Dear MBO-

yep! Words to live by :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Mbo
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 03:31 PM

Yougest Bob Fan, "Mmmbop" reminds me of a line by my favorite songwriter, Jeff Lynne of ELO, who says "You gotta get it all to get it all to grow." Words to live by!

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Caitrin
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 02:34 PM

Personally, I'm a pretty big Dylan fan. Not so devoted as my little brother (who is obsessive and knows all the words to SubTerranean Homesick Blues), but still admiring. I think Dylan has written some of the most meaningful lyrics there are. They haven't grown in the least stale over the 30 years since they were written.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Paul G.
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 02:32 PM

I'm not a huge Dylan fan, never have been. But I respect what he did. My 21 year old daughter and her guy went to a Dylan concert last year -- said his voice had deteriorated to near the point of pity, but the lyrics were still moving. When I look for an opportunity for audience participation during a performance, I almost always do "You Ain't Going Nowhere" -- fun to sing and almost everyone knows it (at least by the end of the song). Someone earlier said that Dylan created himself. I agree, that he managed his persona -- sort of a Madonna of the Folk Era. But you've got to give him credit for it, it takes genius to present the whole, sellable package.

pg


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Mooh
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 01:39 PM

GUEST, Greg, I bet there's plenty of your very favourite musicians who value BD more highly than you, so maybe he's not over-rated. Many a time it is that someone has influenced me toward listening again to something/someone and I've changed my mind about it/them. BD is not God, but he's damn good in my mind because I listened more than I would have if someone I respected hadn't suggested that I try him again. The cool thing about all of this is YOU don't HAVE to like him at all, or you can like him by degrees. Maybe BD would like that too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Pontiac Joe
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 01:18 PM

Steve O , Guess I forgot the period between strumming and my name It did look kinda funny . eh?

Joe


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 12:11 PM

Hey Joe, If it wasn't for Dylan would you not be Joe Strummer? SteveO


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Troll
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 12:05 PM

I agree with Clinton Hammond.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: BK
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 11:48 AM

For ME bob was not by any means whatsoever "THE" singular voice of a generation, whatever he may have been for others - he was one of MANY voices, albeit sometimes an important one. Some of the "voices" from then, in terms of writers of songs that made a difference in my life, I don't remember the name of - but I remember the wonderful songs they wrote. Guess I have some homework to do. I'm working on putting together a 60's style "Hoot" for our church, & certainly a song or 3 from Dylan will be there, but so will many others.

I would like it very much if somehow ALL the songs that have an important message for me would also have such impact on others, 'n also that they will last thru many generations. Some of Paxton's material appers to be doing that, & probably others as well.. Only time will tell. Meanwhile, whatever songs I sing are all because I care for the song, not specifically because of who wrote them, but rather because of what they say to, & for, (& about?) me.

Again my $0.02

Cheers, BK, who does respect some of what Dylan did, but cannot find it in his heart to put him on a pedestal, above all others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: zander (inactive)
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 10:18 AM

Dylan was THE voice of his generation in the late sixty's Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 09:58 AM

Ummm... Over-rated?... Definitely not!

The Doors, yes

Janice Joplin, Maybe

But who the hell cares? If ya like it, listen to it, if ya don't like it, DON'T!

{~`



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Subject: RE: BS: Dylan is vastly overrated
From: GUEST,The youngest BOB and HANSON fan
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 09:51 AM

Dear MBO-

I agree, the song "Weird" is amazingly written and superbly performed.

"Sitting on the side, waiting for a sign hoping that my luck will change. Reaching for a hand that will understand- someone who feels the same. When you live in a cookie-cutter world Being different is a sin. And you don't stand out. And you don't fit in... Weird"

The lyrics to "Mmmbop" are very profound, I agree. What some people classified as juvenille songwriting:

"Plant a seed, plant a flower, plant a rose- you can plant anyone of those. Keep planting to find out which one grows. It's a secret no one knows."

The word "Mmmbop," Hanson says, means, "an unforgettable moment."

:)www.hansonline.com (:


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