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Blues vs Rap

Bobert 02 May 12 - 08:54 PM
GUEST,Stim 02 May 12 - 06:12 PM
matt milton 02 May 12 - 07:01 AM
JohnInKansas 02 May 12 - 05:43 AM
GUEST 02 May 12 - 01:54 AM
Bobert 01 May 12 - 09:22 PM
GUEST,josepp 01 May 12 - 05:55 PM
matt milton 01 May 12 - 04:41 PM
GUEST,josepp 01 May 12 - 01:39 PM
Stringsinger 01 May 12 - 12:24 PM
Bonzo3legs 01 May 12 - 09:22 AM
Bobert 01 May 12 - 09:11 AM
matt milton 01 May 12 - 05:26 AM
Bobert 30 Apr 12 - 07:20 PM
GUEST,josepp 30 Apr 12 - 01:19 PM
matt milton 30 Apr 12 - 07:00 AM
Bobert 29 Apr 12 - 09:03 AM
GUEST,Hookey Wole 28 Apr 12 - 11:00 PM
GUEST,alexander 28 Apr 12 - 10:40 PM
Azizi 04 May 05 - 10:32 PM
Azizi 04 May 05 - 10:24 PM
Azizi 04 May 05 - 10:02 PM
Azizi 25 Apr 05 - 09:14 AM
GUEST,dodobird 15 Apr 05 - 08:28 PM
GUEST,dodobird 15 Apr 05 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,dodobird 15 Apr 05 - 08:05 PM
GUEST,Jess 15 Apr 05 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,Jack Frost 15 Apr 05 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,Anominis 15 Apr 05 - 11:55 AM
s6k 15 Apr 05 - 09:18 AM
shepherdlass 15 Apr 05 - 07:16 AM
s6k 15 Apr 05 - 04:18 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 14 Apr 05 - 07:34 PM
s6k 14 Apr 05 - 04:19 AM
s6k 14 Apr 05 - 04:18 AM
GUEST,moocowpoo 13 Apr 05 - 08:21 PM
George Papavgeris 13 Apr 05 - 05:17 PM
s6k 13 Apr 05 - 05:00 PM
Firecat 13 Apr 05 - 04:41 PM
GUEST,anomanis 13 Apr 05 - 12:24 PM
GUEST,anonamys 13 Apr 05 - 12:22 PM
Azizi 11 Apr 05 - 04:34 PM
Stu 11 Apr 05 - 02:58 PM
Dave (the ancient mariner) 11 Apr 05 - 11:10 AM
Azizi 11 Apr 05 - 10:49 AM
JohnInKansas 11 Apr 05 - 10:10 AM
GUEST 10 Apr 05 - 11:15 PM
John Hardly 10 Apr 05 - 07:51 PM
MurkeyChris 10 Apr 05 - 07:12 PM
MurkeyChris 10 Apr 05 - 07:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Bobert
Date: 02 May 12 - 08:54 PM

Yeah, Stim... Rap certainly has an abundance of African American influence... When you listen to old recording of "the dozens" there is a lot of Rap in it... The entire work chants/field hollers is very much part of rap...

B~


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 02 May 12 - 06:12 PM

"Rap" has part of African-American communities since before the "American" got put in there. Rhythmic rhyming and narratives, with a lot of the same floating verses, rhyme pairs, and themes, have been repeated in work chants, toasts, "the dozens", as well as in storytelling, and religious ceremonies have been part of the oral tradition for centuries. Pieces like "The Signifying Monkey" have African origins, and have grown and been changed in the way that folk and traditional material changes. Some people may not be comfortable with some of the things that have come out of the process, but that doesn't change what it is.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: matt milton
Date: 02 May 12 - 07:01 AM

"So why call what you do rap? Why pigeon-hole it? Nobody respects that. Every artist always says he's doing something different from everyone else. So reject the rap label. Rap is dead."

Well, to be pedantic about it, rapping isn't the music, it's the, er, rapping. Which a rapper does. Hip-Hop is the music traditionally associated with rapping, and was traditionally performed alongside a scratching DJ. These days, it's all up for grabs, with much hip-hop sounding like techno, and a lot of electronica having absorbed hip-hop influences.

A rapper might rap over techno, rock or dubstep. He's still rapping though. He's still a rapper.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 May 12 - 05:43 AM

Stringsinger got it partly right:

Both blues and rap are arbitrary labels generally provided by recording companies to market their product. There are many forms of both. Early rap was like blues in that it conveyed the history of the African-American experience

The current incarnation of "rap" is very much a promotion label, and is strictly linked to "commercialization."

While rap has been adopted by the African-American culture, the first detailed examples I encountered were from US West Coast Hispanic cultures ca very early 1950s. I suspect a fairly long tradition before my contact with it then.

While I've heard very little "recent Hispanic rap" my impression is that in some places where it remains associated with its origins it remains a very much "less aggressive" form.

There may be some bias due to the circumstances in which I first heard much of it, but within the Hispanic tradition a popular "topic" was "free form (ad lib) recitations of Bible verses/stories," and it appeared to be a well established performance form within some (ghetto?) Hispanic churches.

As with early blues, "if you did it the same twice, you might be accused of losing the spirit;" but of course in variable form you can't publish it and make a profit, so it was exclusively a "live performance" thing in the earlier "free" form, so far as I heard of it.

Calling the "original" form (to the extent I've seen it) "music" is a stretch, but much of the earlier stuff could well be called "poetry." I don't listen to enough of the current commercialization of any of it to say whether much of that has much, if any, really poetic content. What I hear "by accident" doesn't impress me much.

Rap quite probably could reasonably be called a "ghetto tradition" in order to be more inclusive of various origins, but ascribing it's origins to African-American culture is simply WRONG. The HATRED in currently promoted "black rap" may have had its origins in African-American culture, but there's a lot more to the "rap tradition" than that.

Unfortunately, I suspect considerable difficulty in finding much documentation of any true "roots" for the art (regardless of whether or not one wants to generous enough to include the current commercially hyped stuff in that description).

John


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 12 - 01:54 AM

josepp is not "usually cool" when it comes to talking about music, B'bert. He tends to mindless ranting, not unlike his fellow Michigander, Ted Nugent;-)


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 12 - 09:22 PM

Bull, joesz...

My son laid down a rap in front of a bunch of redneck country people that had nothing to do with the stuff you think rap is about... It was entitled "We're the same"... Here's a kid from Portland, Or. and he wrote this song the night before and performed it and guess what???

People (rednecks) loved it...

You need to rethink think this, man... You are usually cool... Not here...

B~


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 01 May 12 - 05:55 PM

But blues is not rap. To kids today, hip-hop is not rap, DJ mixes are not rap and techno is not rap. Just because a guy is talking instead of singing doesn't make it rap to rap fans. If he's reciting jazz poetry it is not rap. They see huge differences just like kids today see huge differences between punk, goth, death metal, black metal, thrash, etc. If you try to pass one off as the other, they'll call you a phony or an idiot or both.

So why call what you do rap? Why pigeon-hole it? Nobody respects that. Every artist always says he's doing something different from everyone else. So reject the rap label. Rap is dead.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: matt milton
Date: 01 May 12 - 04:41 PM

if you listen to, say, Robert Johnson you'll hear a fair bit about drugs, guns, prison and "hos".


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 01 May 12 - 01:39 PM

Bobert,

Rap IS about drug, guns, prison and hos. That's ALL it's about. Storytelling is NOT rap. "Evidence" by Dave Young is NOT rap. It has real instruments and the words are about the crimes that Africa itself has committed on black people (and written by Leroi Jones). Gil-Scott Heron was NOT rap. From what I understand, he found rap to be an embarrassment and did not want his name associated with it. Today's rappers are pathetic compared to him. Rap does not tell a story. It's teeny-bopper shit for street kids who don't give a fuck about your fucking stories.

Storytelling is NOT RAP!!!! Please do not degrade the art of storytelling with such a shitheaded comparison. PLEASE get a brain.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 May 12 - 12:24 PM

Both blues and rap are arbitrary labels generally provided by recording companies to market their product. There are many forms of both. Early rap was like blues in that it conveyed the history of the African-American experience. The two are tributaries of the same river.

One hallmark of an expressive song is its specificity in imagery. Both blues and rap serve this purpose. Blues and Rap both have a tendency to glorify the myth of male superiority and bravado. This is an essential element because of the emasculation of the black male in white society. It's an attempt to say "I am somebody".

The blues and rap you hear on the radio is often uncharacteristic of the music found in the "hood" or in the deep south.

Blues evolves as it is exemplified by Charlie Parker.

Rap and Blues finds their way into jazz and as a verbal vehicle of expression of a kind of folk poetry, emanating culturally from the Griots of Africa.   Both Blues and Rap tell the story of Black suppression. For that matter, jazz started that way also from Congo Square in New Orleans through to John Coltrane or Esperanza Spalding.

Both form a firm foundation for the evolution of African-American music. There is no versus here but a remarkable cohesive connection which has enriched the musical culture of America and cultures worldwide.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 May 12 - 09:22 AM

How can you compare rap which if performed in English, is English gone totally wrong, with blues?


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 12 - 09:11 AM

It isn't???

lol...

B~


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: matt milton
Date: 01 May 12 - 05:26 AM

plus, blues is not just made by "60-year-old idiots" with bad legs!


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 07:20 PM

Oh, bull, joez...

You must not have heard much rap... It ain't all about "niggas and bitches"...

My son's rap is story telling... Real stories... And it sounds good...

B~


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 01:19 PM

The problem with rap is who wants to watch some 60-year-old idiot strutting across the stage on his good leg to a drum track? Spare me. It's for kids. It's teeny-bopper shit trying to look bad. It DOES sound bad--I'll agree to that much.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: matt milton
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 07:00 AM

anyone heard the Willis Earl Beal album? It clearly shows that blues and rap sit well together.

Equally, listen to New Kingdom's album Paradise Don't Come Cheap.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 12 - 09:03 AM

Rap and blues are like first cousins...

My son does rap... I play blues... And it ain't a "verses" thing... WE have actually performed together incorporating the blues and rap into one song... Worked out fine...

B~


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,Hookey Wole
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 11:00 PM

Alex you are proud and loud

10 years old and fiercing up to all the old dead men walking & talking their petrified decomposing drizzle slouch off
to sad dead culture oblivion..

I also believe that seminal legends Al Bowlly & Jessie Matthews
were the genetic foundation that modern cross genre rap and extreme metal were birthed from.

Crikey, you sound so perceptive I'd almost be persuaded you were a 60 year old folkie
masquerading as a pre pubescent child. !!!??

but of course that would never happen here at mudcat .....


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,alexander
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 10:40 PM

I am ten and kid my age like raap and all that stuff I like jazz and blues. all those haters of both genres blues hating rap fans be proud because helped shape all modern music genres including rap jazz rock pop hip hop even modern country so stop argueing about it im out


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Azizi
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:32 PM

I should say that I don't approve of the violence in the La Di Da Di rap.

BUT I still stand by my previous post. I like 'La Di Da Di' because of its creative rhyming and its memorable lines.

I also like its beat.

Old school rules!!!


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Azizi
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:24 PM

The song I like best by Slick Rick and Doug E Fresh is
'La Di Da Di.' I think this old school rap is even more creative than their names-which I consider to be real creative.

And yes, that song contains a few X rated words, and a sexist reference or two BUT it has a party flava and some really memorable lines-like:

"La-di-da-di, we like to party.
We don't cause trouble, we don't bother nobody"

-snip-

and:

"..Stepped out the house stopped short, oh no
Went back in I forgot my Kangol
Then I dilly, DALLY, I ran through the ALLEY
I bumped into this homegirl named SALLY from the VALLEY
This was a girl playing hard to get
So I said "What's wrong?" cause she looked upset
She said uh, "It's all because of you
I'm feeling sad and blue
You went away
and now my life is filled with rainy days
I love you so
How much you'll never know
Cause you took your love away from me"

-snip-

and there's also "to the heart tick tock you don't stop
                  to the heart tick tock you don't quit, hit it!

-snip-

Here's the lyrics to this classic old school rap compliments of this website: La Di Da De


"Okay party people in the house...
This is something you never witnessed before...
Yes, it's the incredible Doug E. Fresh...
With his partner, the grand wizard MC, Ricky D
D, and that's me in the place to be.
We goin' to do it for '85, kick it live, allright?
Cuz you know, you're all sick of all these crap rappers
biting their rhymes because of they're back steppers.
But when it comes to me and my man Doug Fresh here,
there is no competition 'cause we are the best, yeah.
But as impress, which we approve
and yeah, we realize that we are on the move,
so listen closely so y'all don't miss
as we go a little something like this, HIT IT!

La-di-da-di...
La-di-da-di...
La-di, da-di!
Yo peep this

La-di-da-di, we like to party
We don't cause trouble, we don't bother nobody
We're, just some men that's on the mic
And when we rock upon the mic we rock the mic RIGHT
For all of y'all, keep y'all in health
Just to see you smile and enjoy yourself
Cause it's cool when you cause a cozy conditioning
Which we create, cause that's our mission
So listen close, to what we say
Because this type of shit happens everyday
I woke up around ten o'clock in the morning
I gave myself a stretch up, a morning yawn and
Went to the bathroom to wash up
Put some soap on my face and my hand upon a cup, said
Mirror mirror on the wall
Who is the top choice of them all
there was a rumble tumble, five minutes it lasted
the mirror said, "You are you conceited bastard!"
Well that true, that why we never had no beef
THen I washed off the soap and brushed the gold teeth
Used oil of olay cause my skin gets pail
and then I grabbed the file for my finger nails
I'm true to the style on my behalf
I put the bubbles in the tub so I could take a bubble bath
Clean, dry, was my, body and hair
I threw on my brand new Gucci underwear
For all the girls I might take home
I got the Johnson's Baby Powder and the Polo Cologne
Fresh dress, like a million bucks,
put on the Bally shoes and the fly green socks.
Stepped out the house stopped short, oh no
Went back in I forgot my Kangol
Then I dilly, DALLY, I ran through the ALLEY
I bumped into this homegirl named SALLY from the VALLEY
This was a girl playing hard to get
So I said "What's wrong?" cause she looked upset
She said uh, "It's all because of you
I'm feeling sad and blue
You went away
and now my life is filled with rainy days
I love you so
How much you'll never know
Cause you took your love away from me"
Now what was I to do
She was crying over me and she was feeling blue
I said, "Don't cry, dry, your eyes
Here comes your mother with those two little guys"
Her mean mother steps and says to me "Hi!"
Hit Sally in the face and deckedvi her in the eye
punched her in the belly, and stepped on her feet
Slammed the child on the hard concrete
The bitch was strong, the kids was gone
Something was wrong I said what was going on?
I tried to break it up I said, stop it, leave her
She said, "If I can't have you she can't either"
She grabbed me closely by my socks
So I broke the hell out like I had the chicken pox
But uh, she gave chase, she caught up quick
She put a finger in the face of MC Rick, and said
"Why don't you give me some play?
And we can go cruising in my old jag
And if you give me that OK
I'll give you all my love today
Ricky Ricky Ricky, can't you see
Somehow your words just hypnotize me
And I just love your jazzy ways
So MC Rick my love is here to stay"
And on and on and on she kept on
The bitch been around before my mother's born
I said, "Cheer up!" I gave her a kiss
I said, "You can't have me I'm too young for you miss"
She said, "No you're not," then she starts crying
I says, "I'm nineteen", she says, "Stop lying!"
I said, "I am -- go ask my mother
And with your wrinkled pussy, I can't be your lover!"
To the heart tick tock you don't stop
To the heart tick tock you don't quit, hit it!

-snip-

I conclude this post with the end quote from that website:

"...don't ever forget, Doug E. Fresh, and MC Ricky D..."


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Azizi
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:02 PM

A post in a totally unrelated BS thread mentioned making music by farting and that made me think of Hip-Hop music. [that's supposed to be a joke}.

No really, a post in the thread Gas, WInd, Flatulence
talked about some guy who makes music by pretending to 'let out wind' as we used to call it in New Jersey.

And for some strange reason that made me think of Doug E. Fresh, the human beat box.

Don't recognize the name? Shame on you! The man invented [or at least popularized} a whole new way of making music. Interested?

Well, read on:

"Doug E Fresh and his former tag team partner MC Ricky D (aka Slick Rick) made a big splash in the hip-hop world when they emerged with their party rhymes; Rick with his unique style of speak and Dougie with the "human beatbox." They blew up with "The Show," a jam that remains a timeless hip-hop classic, along with "La Di Da Di" and others. Billed as The World's Greatest Entertainer, Doug E Fresh was just that, and he rocked the party.

Doug E Fresh been in the rap game for a long time. He started way back around 1981, when he was only about 13 years old, doing block parties and basically getting his name out there. "Back then it wasn't about records," Dougie says, "It was about your ability to get up there and perform for the crowd." He used to practice routines with his boys Barry B and Chill Will, who later became members of the Get Fresh Crew. Barry B was the one who actually coined the term "human beatbox" to describe the talent of making music with your mouth that made Dougie famous."

Here's more on
Doug E Fresh

Enjoy!


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:14 AM

This is a re-post from the current 'Folk combined with other genres' thread:

To expand this conversation, if roots Hip-Hop is considered part of folk music, then examples of jazz/Hip-Hop fusions should be included in this discussion.

See these comments from BassTalk discussion forum:

"ryan morris 04-10-2001, 08:57 PM
hey, anyone listen to music like this? it is kind of like feel good rap music with some neat bass lines here and there. examples would be:
digable planets
arrested development
jurassic 5
mos def
black star"

-snip-

"winston 04-10-2001, 09:09 PM
Don't forget Spearhead! And if you want to check out some of the roots of jazz/hip-hop fusion be sure to look into Gil-Scott Heron. Lauryn Hill's "Miseducation" also has some fine basswork."

-snip-

"ryan morris 04-11-2001, 10:08 AM
awesome, so you guy do listen to some of this stuff. i am going to be going music shopping today. it's like a weekly thing now. i can't wait to check out some of the suggestions.
some more similar artist would be:The Pharcyde,OutKast(older stuff), DJ Spooky, Dr. Octagon, Blackalicious, Company Flow, Common Latyrx, Black Sheep, The Roots,The Coup ,Lootpack, The Dust Brothers, The Automator, DJ Shadow, Q-Tip FreestyleFellowship, A Tribe Called Quest,Afrika Bambaataa, De La Soul, just to name a few"

-snip-

Click here for my other post in that thread on the subject of

Posts on Jazz/Hip-Hop fusion


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,dodobird
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:28 PM

the link in my post goes to the second page of the article, my bad...
here is the corrected link:
Applying Memetics to the Historical Understanding of the African Diasporan Music


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,dodobird
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:26 PM


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,dodobird
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:05 PM

I have been checking out the neo-science of memetics lately, which argues that culture spreads through thought or idea replicators called memes. This point of view is especially attractive to me because of my maturing appreciation for folk music of all kinds. I decided to google the words meme and rap and I was pulled into an article in the Ohio University African American Studies Black Praxis web pages, entitled "Applying Memetics to the Historical Understanding of the African Diasporan Music Culture of North America."

I found this article to be an example of "meta-rap" of the highest order! Enjoy!

http://cscwww.cats.ohiou.edu/aas/blackpraxis/articles/frank1.html

Applying Memetics to the Historical Understanding of the African Diasporan Music


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,Jess
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:01 PM

Hi I love rap music. I love music in every form and I enjoy blues lots to. In the chorus at my school. (and mac' n' cheese commercials, LOL) I have always enjoyed music and love it when I am introduced to a new kind
thanx for starting this shambles its great expresing opinions and great reading others and Terry Allen Hall I would think it better if you didnt speaak of rap that way calling it filth and all and I dont think ANYBODY should automatically assume that all rap music is filth and you should listen to some EMINEM he sings some great songs about how he made it to the top that EVEN MY DAD ENJOYS IT. Thanks for reading

-Jess


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,Jack Frost
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:31 PM

yep I am back where is MY message about enjoying rap JERK


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,Anominis
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 11:55 AM

yep I am back where is MY message about enjoying rap JERK


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: s6k
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:18 AM

this is true!


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: shepherdlass
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:16 AM

Just a thought - wasn't Subterranean Homesick Blues actually a hybrid of folk, blues and rap before rap really existed?


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: s6k
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 04:18 AM

yes it is music, it is more music than is cheeky girls and all those crappy dance remixes of 80's songs that are out nowadays, with the same keyboard riffs in every son...... tune


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 07:34 PM

Thanks, but I can't handle words neat. I'll take mine with melody, if you don't mind.

Rap is definitely an art form, and very clever no doubt, but music? I don't think so.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: s6k
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 04:19 AM

just to add, the lyrics to "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash
excuse any mistakes, its a quick copy from t'internet
--------------------------------

Broken glass everywhere
People pissing on the stairs, you know they just
Don't care
I can't take the smell, I can't take the noise
Got no money to move out, I guess I got no choice
Rats in the front room, roaches in the back
Junkie's in the alley with a baseball bat
I tried to get away, but I couldn't get far
Cause the man with the tow-truck repossessed my car

Chorus:

Don't push me, cause I'm close to the edge
I'm trying not to loose my head
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder
How I keep from going under

Standing on the front stoop, hangin' out the window
Watching all the cars go by, roaring as the breezes
Blow
Crazy lady, livin' in a bag
Eating out of garbage bins, used to be a fag-hag
Search and test a tango, skips the life and then go
To search a prince to see the last of senses
Down at the peepshow, watching all the creeps
So she can tell the stories to the girls back home
She went to the city and got so so so ditty
She had to get a pimp, she couldn't make it on her
Own

Chorus:
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder
How I keep from goin' under

My brother's doing fast on my mother's t.v.
Says she watches to much, is just not healthy
All my children in the daytime, dallas at night
Can't even see the game or the sugar ray fight
Bill collectors they ring my phone
And scare my wife when I'm not home
Got a bum education, double-digit inflation
Can't take the train to the job, there's a strike
At the station
Me on king kong standin' on my back
Can't stop to turn around, broke my sacroiliac
Midrange, migraine, cancered membrane
Sometimes I think I'm going insane, I swear I might
Hijack a plane!


Chorus:


My son said daddy I don't wanna go to school
Cause the teacher's a jerk, he must think I'm a
Fool
And all the kids smoke reefer, I think it'd be
Cheaper
If I just got a job, learned to be a street sweeper
I dance to the beat, shuffle my feet
Wear a shirt and tie and run with the creeps
Cause it's all about money, ain't a damn thing
Funny
You got to have a con in this land of milk and
Honey
They push that girl in front of a train
Took her to a doctor, sowed the arm on again
Stabbed that man, right in his heart
Gave him a transplant before a brand new start
I can't walk through the park, cause it's crazy
After the dark
Keep my hand on the gun, cause they got me on the
Run
I feel like an outlaw, broke my last cast jaw
Hear them say you want some more, livin' on a
Seesaw

Chorus:

A child was born, with no state of mind
Blind to the ways of mankind
God is smiling on you but he's frowning too
Cause only God knows what you go through
You grow in the ghetto, living second rate
And your eyes will sing a song of deep hate
The places you play and where you stay
Looks like one great big alley way
You'll admire all the number book takers
Thugs, pimps, pushers and the big money makers
Driving big cars, spending twenties and tens
And you wanna grow up to be just like them, huh,
Smugglers, scrambles, burglars, gamblers
Pickpockets, peddlers and even plan-handlers
You say I'm cool, I'm no fool
But then you wind up dropping out of high school
Now you're unemployed,all null'n' void
Walking around like you're pretty boy floyd
Turned stickup kid, look what you done did
Got set up for a eight year bid
Now your man is took and you're a may tag
Spend the next two years as an undercover fag
Being used and abused, and served like hell
Till one day you was find hung dead in a cell
It was plain to see that your life was lost
You was cold and your body swung back and forth
But now your eyes sing the sad sad song
Of how you lived so fast and died so young


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: s6k
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 04:18 AM

and there is also "The Message" by grandmaster flash

i totally agree with the above post - you cannot judge rap by what you hear on the radio. like i said, its not even rap, its pop - entertainment, not music.

the "rap" artists of modern day give good rap a bad name, just like the cheeky girls give music a bad name


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,moocowpoo
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 08:21 PM

Listening to rap on the radio and forming a blanket opinion of the 'intelligence' of this genre of music is (to me), akin to going to a cd shop, buying a collection entitled 'the auld emerald isle- 40 irish drinking songs' and concluding that all Irish music is shite.   Most rap you will hear on the radio is form the mainstream artists, I like about the same percentage of this and any other mainstream music.    I love Finnish and irish trad,,,,but I've also come across some excellent rap!
If you do more than scratch the surface of rap, you can find songs with lyrics such as these:

Television, Drug of the Free
by Disposable Heroes of Hipocrisy (Michael Franti, 1991):


One nation under god has turned into
one nation under the influence of one drug

(chorus)
Television, the drug of the nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V., it satellite links
our united states of unconsciousness
apathetic therapeutic and extremely addictive
the methadone metronome pumping out
150 channels 24 hours a day
you can flip through all of them
and still there's nothing worth watching
T.V. is the reason why less than ten percent
of our nation reads books daily
why most people think Central America means Kansas
socialism means unamerican
and apartheid is a new headache remedy
absorbed in its world it's so hard to find us
it shapes our mind the most
maybe the mother of our nation
should remind us that we're sitting too close to...

(chorus)
Television, the drug of the nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V. is the stomping ground
for political candidates
where bears in the woods
are chased by grecian formula'd bald eagles
T.V. is mechanized politic's
remote control over the masses
co-sponsored by enironmentally safe gases
watch for the PBS special
it's the perpetuation of the two-party system
where image takes precedence over wisdom
where sound bite politics are served
to the fastfood culture
where straight teeth in your mouth
are more important than the words
that come out of it
race baiting is the way to get elected
Willie Horton or will he not get elected on...

(chorus)
Televison, the drug of the nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V., is it the reflector or the director
does it imitate us or do we imitate it
because a child watches 1500 murders
before he's twelve years old
and we wonder how we've created
a Jason generation that learns to laugh
rather than abhor the horror
T.V. is the place where armchair generals
and quarterbacks can experience first hand
the excitement of video warfare
as the themesong is sung in the background
sugar sweet sitcoms that leave us with
a bad actor taste while pop stars metamorphosize
into soda pop stars you saw the video
you heard the soundtrack
well now go buy the soft drink
well, the only cola that I support
is a union C.O.L.A. (cost of living allowance) on...

(chorus)
Television, the drug of the nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

Back again, "new and improved"
we return to our irregularly programmed schedule
hidden cleverly between heavy breasted
beer and car commmercials
CNNESPNABCTNT but mostly B.S.
where oxymoronic language like
"virtually spotless" "fresh frozen"
light yet filling" and
"military intelligence" have become standard
T.V. is the place where phrases are redefined
like "recession" to "necessary downturn"
"crude oil" on a beach to "mousse"
"civilian death" to "collateral damages"
and being killed by your own army
is now called "friendly fire"
T.V. is the place where the pursuit of
happiness has become the pursuit of trivia
where toothpaste and cars
have become sex objects
where imagination is sucked out of children
by a cathode ray nipple
T.V. is the only wet nurse
that would create a cripple
on...

(chorus)
Television, the drug of the nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 05:17 PM

I like blues, but although I can see the link of rap back to blues, I cannot abide rap at all. Just tastes, I guess


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: s6k
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 05:00 PM

i like blues AND rap.

and chuck D from public enemy recently remade electric Mud (muddy waters) with all the original band because he says how blues is such an influence on him.

for all the idiots on this thread who are saying rap is shit, bla bla, rap is all about beating women, bla bla, you are saying this because of what the media has told you, not what you know from actually doing investigation of lyrics etc.

Yes there is a lot of rap around about "bitches" and "hoes" etc, but this is the equivalent of pop music to real rock music - it is a blight on the landscape of music.

you dont have to hate rap because you like blues, idiots. There are plenty of rap artists around who write meaningful lyrics and political issues etc, such as public enemy, in an extremely intelligent manner. You just dont know this because you dont want to admit that youre wrong, or you cant be arsed to actually find out something about the history of rap music before you start typing down your STUPID thoughts.

why dont you actually do some research before you post stupid comments and tar the entire history of rap music down to "its all about beating women"

music is supposed to unite people, and there are plenty of rap artists who are heavily influenced by blues music, as there are plenty of fans of rap and blues together.

if you havent researched rap, and dont know the first thing about it, then i dont personally know how you even dare put your pathetic arguments forward

and if this message comes across as angry, it is because i am sick to death of people who know nothing about rap and its history coming onto rap threads in mudcat and saying its shit with no valid argument whatsoever, just because they think they are above it because they listen to blues and folk.

i like run dmc, cypress hill, robert johnson, blind willie mctell, i could go on.
both genres can live together and add their own parts of history


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Firecat
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 04:41 PM

intelligent people (of all skin hues) realize that it is simply filth aimed at the lowest mentality

I happen to like rap, especially Eminem. I think that the above comment (from the second post to this thread) is a generalisation of people's views about the kind of peple who listen to rap. I have an IQ in excess of 140, so would I be classed as being of the "lowest mentality"?

It is, however possible to like blues as well as rap. One of my favourite songs is "Baby Can I Hold You Tonight" by Tracy Chapman, with "Fast Car" high on my list as well.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,anomanis
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 12:24 PM

i enjoy rap it gives me a good feeling and there is plenty songs from eminem that tell about sucess and he is super popular


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,anonamys
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 12:22 PM


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 04:34 PM

For those who may not be aware, there are a number of magazines devoted to Hip-Hop culture. The two that I frequently buy [and at one time subscribed to are Source and Vibe. Here are links to both


Source HipHop Magazine

Vibe Magazine

thesource.com appears to just show the cover of its current magazine, and promote other purchasable products, but it announces that a new site is coming.

The Vibe site has information that is readable online.

It should come as no surprise that these competing magazines don't like each other. The Source, for instance, boast that it has more street credibility than the Quincy Jones' produced Vibe. [I think they're right about that]. But there are other Hip-Hop magazines that say that neither Source or Vibe is credible with hardcore
Hip-Hop fans. And depending on how one defines 'hardcore Hip-Hop fans', they might be right.

Not playing favorites or anything [wink wink], here's an excerpt of a Source article from April 2004 to give you one flava of what it's all about:

"Don't Believe the Hype" Martin S. Douglas
The dramatic rise of Hip-Hop over the last few years has forced mainstream music organizations to accept the billion-dollar genre as a driving force. And while, to the naked eye, it seems as though the Grammys and the MTV, VMAs are embracing an art form that they once turned their noses up to, a closer look reveals a hidden agenda.

...while [the 2004 Grammy television show] appeared to be honoring Hip-Hop with five nominations in the Record and Album Of The Year categories (the highest ever in the Academy's two most prestigious categories) and 39 nominations in total as opposed to 32 nominations in 2003, 25 in 2001, and 18 in 2001, none of the six rap categories were televised....

It is no surprise, then, that the Grammy winners reflect what the academy considers to be a more palatable version of Hip-Hop. A perfect example is the shutout of 50 Cents who, after becoming 2003's top selling artist and Hip-Hop's most obvious choice for a winner in any category, was beat out by goth-rockers Evanescence for Best New Artist...

Remember it's only been a few years since our artists stood in protest against the Grammys for not respecting Hip-Hop's achievements...It was only in '89 that the Grammys first recognized the genre, and the Solo and Group categories were not differentiated until '91. Its Best Rap Album category didn't even come into existence until '95. Most disturbing is that the Best Rap SOng category, which recognizes songwriting, wasn't introduced until 2003-an outrage since rap has always stressed lyricism...

Similarly, the MTV VMAs have their own troubled history with Hip-Hop. In 1999, they split the award for our music into two separate categories-one as "Rap" and the other as "Hip-Hop". While artists like Jay-Z and Dr. Dre stayed in the "Rap" category, they began to include 'less threatening' artists like Jennifer Lopez, Sisqo, and The Beastie Boys into "Hip Hop". In effect, this split will eventually contribute to the mainstream MTV-viewing audience's perception that "RAP" is the music of angry, young Black men, while Hip-Hop is softer, more digestible, and 'acceptable' music.

As a whole, these mainstream awards shows have been a slap in the face to the culture. They have used it for their own commercial gain by making it conform to their own standards, Their bogus acknowledgement is too little,too late, and this tyoe of treatment proves tht even in the 21st century, the music industry still does not truly respect the art form of Hip-Hop."


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Stu
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 02:58 PM

I have to take issue with the idea all rap is negative and espouses a culture of violence. I don't know much about rap but I Eminem's song Loose Yourself is one of my favourite motivational records - "You can do anything you set your mind to . . ."

Remember punk (the real stuff, not the pseudo-punk sh*te about these days)? Punk provoked a similar reaction from many, but Anarchy in the UK still sounds as angry and vital as it did when it came out. And less face it, us folkies benefited immensely from punk (Shane McGowan, Billy Bragg etc).

Rap is young people using and exploring language in a creative and exciting way - all power to it's elbow.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 11:10 AM

I actually heard one Rap song I actually liked: Where Is The Love, by the Black Eyed Peas...... Its the end of the world as we know it, i'm doomed mates... LOL


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 10:49 AM

"There are great numbers of talented people who do speak, sing, and act out the problems (and rewards) of their social conditions, in ways that can help others to understand and work toward mutually beneficial improvement. Rap can be a useful and beautiful medium for such expression. Mass-merchandised media "art" largely only obscures the artists in favor of what's merchantable."-JohnInKansas

I agree with this comment; I also agree with Lady McMoo's succient comment that "there is rap and there is crap"; and John Hardly's list about why Rap is more widely known in many cultures now than Blues was [with the exception of John's last point about "Education is no longer toward a social norm" ??? which social norm, and which form of education??-since mass media is a very powerful educational tool...

I also would like to add that my interest is in hip-hop culture more than hip-hop music [which I admit to not being a fan of for the most part]. With some notable exceptions such as "n---g" and "ho", I love the creativity of the languaging [including spelling] and the tag names used by rappers. This reminds me of the Blues as the creativity of Blues artists and early jazz musicians/singers was expressed in the way they talked.

Furthermore, similar to hip-hop artists,Blues and early jazz artists were known by tag names and not by their birth names.

Hip-Hop is a fascinating culture [cultures really] to study.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 10:10 AM

I have to suggest that there may be reason to doubt the current concept that "rap" is a traditional black cultural thing, since my first exposure to it, ca. 1954, was as a "Chicano ghetto" fad, popular especially in the So. Cal area. Samples I heard then had none of the hate/violence/protest content of currently merchandised "rap," and some were quite interesting. My observation then was that the content did reflect cultural/social conditions important to the creators, and that the rap pieces were probably valid source material for understanding of their situation and feelings.

The "rap" that I encountered then was creative and meaningful, and probably did have a lot in common with blues.

While I don't feel the need to argue it, my personal observation is that the currently merchandised "rap" has little to do with "expressing a social condition." The key is that it is made specifically to the requirements of the "merchandising" and SHIT SELLS. Claiming that the highly promoted "rap" commonly seen/heard is all about social protest is about on a par with claiming that highly promoted "porn flicks" are all about love. Both sell quite well, the promoters make a lot of bucks, and some people claim to derive some "redeeming social value" from both.

Many of them will likely grow up and get over it.

There are great numbers of talented people who do speak, sing, and act out the problems (and rewards) of their social conditions, in ways that can help others to understand and work toward mutually beneficial improvement. Rap can be a useful and beautiful medium for such expression. Mass-merchandised media "art" largely only obscures the artists in favor of what's merchantable.

Advertising hype is effective. It makes me not be interested. It seldom misleads me.

John


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 11:15 PM

It remains to be seen whether rap hangs in there longer than blues. The final chapter of blues hasn't been written yet. It is still a viable and popular musical art form.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: John Hardly
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 07:51 PM

"Yall may want to kill me for saying it, but it is way more popular than blues ever was(well, at least the kind of music folks think of as blues like Delta Blues or Chicago Blues), and has hung in there for way longer--Any thoughts as to why?"

1. Better marketing aparatus in place. And because music pie is more divided now than ever, marketing has reached new frenzied levels to try to grab their share of it.

2. Bigger overall market available (a million seller is a smaller % of the population than it used to be)

3. The void is bigger. Pop music, in general, is dreadful.

4. The cultural taboo against the immoderate behavior represented by rap is more lax. Our generation wrote about sex and drugs (in their rock and roll). In order to shock the cultural taboo has to escalate.

5. Education is no longer toward a social norm.


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: MurkeyChris
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 07:12 PM

Here is a direct link to the above show. Just either download or listen to the Random Noises hour. What a plug! But it is a great song and well worth hearing in the context of this thread!

Chris


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Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: MurkeyChris
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 07:09 PM

Hi guys,

As I guy who loves both blues and rap I'd like to point you towards the song 'Bridging the Gap' performed by rapper Nas with his blues playing father, Olu Dara. Absolutely brilliant!

(If you want to hear it online I played it on an old radio show - go to http://logs.1287am.com then go to the Random Noises show at 9pm on 11th January. It's 29 minutes in.)

Chris

-----------------

Folk on the radio - www.coolasfolk.co.uk


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