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Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?

Sandra in Sydney 15 Apr 21 - 07:26 PM
Tony Rees 15 Apr 21 - 02:50 PM
Tony Rees 15 Apr 21 - 01:42 AM
GUEST 14 Apr 21 - 06:10 PM
The Sandman 14 Apr 21 - 04:13 PM
Malcolm Storey 13 Apr 21 - 07:59 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Apr 21 - 07:51 PM
Stilly River Sage 03 Apr 21 - 04:22 PM
Jack Campin 03 Apr 21 - 04:16 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Apr 21 - 03:31 PM
Tony Rees 03 Apr 21 - 03:01 PM
Tony Rees 03 Apr 21 - 02:25 PM
cnd 03 Apr 21 - 01:11 PM
Jeri 03 Apr 21 - 12:50 PM
GUEST,BlackAcornUK 03 Apr 21 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,BlackAcornUK 03 Apr 21 - 11:18 AM
GerryM 03 Apr 21 - 05:49 AM
The Sandman 03 Apr 21 - 01:55 AM
The Sandman 03 Apr 21 - 01:30 AM
Tony Rees 02 Apr 21 - 11:41 PM
Tony Rees 02 Apr 21 - 10:29 PM
Jack Campin 02 Apr 21 - 08:43 PM
Malcolm Storey 02 Apr 21 - 08:17 PM
The Sandman 02 Apr 21 - 02:15 PM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 02 Apr 21 - 01:46 PM
Big Al Whittle 02 Apr 21 - 11:15 AM
Stilly River Sage 02 Apr 21 - 11:07 AM
The Sandman 02 Apr 21 - 11:06 AM
Malcolm Storey 02 Apr 21 - 10:37 AM
The Sandman 02 Apr 21 - 10:26 AM
Jack Campin 02 Apr 21 - 10:05 AM
Jeri 02 Apr 21 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,BlackAcornUK 02 Apr 21 - 08:08 AM
FreddyHeadey 02 Apr 21 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 02 Apr 21 - 05:16 AM
The Sandman 02 Apr 21 - 03:59 AM
Stilly River Sage 02 Apr 21 - 01:28 AM
Tony Rees 02 Apr 21 - 01:07 AM
Sandra in Sydney 01 Apr 21 - 08:50 PM
Malcolm Storey 01 Apr 21 - 08:18 PM
The Sandman 01 Apr 21 - 06:02 PM
Tony Rees 01 Apr 21 - 05:24 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Apr 21 - 04:59 PM
Joe Offer 01 Apr 21 - 04:53 PM
Stilly River Sage 01 Apr 21 - 04:43 PM
Tony Rees 01 Apr 21 - 03:19 PM
Joe Offer 01 Apr 21 - 02:39 PM
Tony Rees 01 Apr 21 - 02:05 PM
G-Force 01 Apr 21 - 06:06 AM
Joe Offer 01 Apr 21 - 04:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Apr 21 - 07:26 PM

thanks, Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Tony Rees
Date: 15 Apr 21 - 02:50 PM

Also I have re-ordered the paragraphs so that the article corresponds a bit more closely with "typical" Wikipedia style, and flows better (to my eye). Again one must expect others to chip in and further adjust anything one writes, once the initial words have been written (they may or may not survive into the long term, but hopefully an improved version will...). Sometimes if the changes are significant, they will be discussed on the accompanying article "talk" page (in this case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Steve_Roud) but for simple stylistic or minor editorial changes this is not normally required.

- Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Tony Rees
Date: 15 Apr 21 - 01:42 AM

I have made that change as requested, although of course Wikipedia editing is open to anyone who feels the urge to do so.

Cheers - Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 21 - 06:10 PM

Trying to be helpful rather than 'picky'. On the Steve Roud page the first sentence in the section on the song index is a condensation of the first two sentences on the Round Folk Song Index page but reads as if he collected them from oral tradition.

I lack the skills to to make the change but how about "Roud compiled the The Roud Folk Song Index, a database of around 250,000[1] references to nearly 25,000 songs collected from oral tradition in the English language from all over the world.

(Nice job though, thanks)


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 21 - 04:13 PM

That is good news about Doc , imo his work, makes him is an important figure in the uk folk revival.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Malcolm Storey
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 07:59 PM

We had a 2 hour 20 minute zoom chat with Doc & Jill today and one of the things mentioned was Doc's Wikipedia entry.

Not before time of course!

He is more than happy with it (now that he has made corrections) and thanks whoever was responsible.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 07:51 PM

Did the writer of O Sole Mio, intend for it to turn into Just One Cornetto?

The song is out there now - and is having its own adventures independent of the original creator.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 04:22 PM

What Jeri said.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 04:16 PM

Those were nice touches to improve the Steve Roud page. And a superb effort on the Doc Rowe one.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 03:31 PM

Once your song has been published. Its gone. You have lost control of it.

Anyone can sing it with different words and a different tune.

If you're lucky enough to make a commercial recording, the guy who is putting up the money has the right to effect what changes he wants to make it marketable. He'd be a fool to speculate his company's money on any other basis. In which case - you've lost control before the public have had a sniff of your creation.

These are the harsh facts of being a composer.

Of course this presumes that anyone is interested enough to listen to your creation in the first place. if no one gives a shit - you can have as many delusions of grandeur as you like.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 03:01 PM

Just to show how this stuff can be mildly addictive (in a good way, hopefully), here is a possibly diverting aside. ALERT: no folk music content here - if that bothers you, do not read any further!

Years ago (1999 or so), in my "scientist" persona (my then day job), I encountered a US-led project that was starting up, then called the "Census of the Fishes", which morphed shortly after into the "Census of Marine Life". Its key backer and proponent, one Jesse Ausubel, used to refer to it as "looking at the ocean through a macroscope". I did not exactly know what he meant but sorta guessed: you use a microscope to look at something too small to comprehend, a macroscope for something at the other end of the scale, i.e. too big.

Fast forward to last year (June 2020) and it idly occurred to me to look up "macroscope" (in that sense) in Wikipedia to find out more about the concept, and discovered that such an article did not exist; so I did the required research and decided to create one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroscope_(science_concept) ... Actually I found the process and challenge quite enjoyable. However, there was a fly in the ointment, as I also remembered from my science background that there was a laboratory instrument called a "Macroscope", not for looking at the world writ small but for viewing (and in particular, photographing) flies, etc. So to complete the picture, and to permit users to find what they were looking for in either case, I then had to create that article as well, now done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroscope_(Wild-Leica) .

All going to show that wikipedia contribution can take you to some unexpected places on occasion, but you do end up knowing some things that you did not before, plus get an odd sort of "warm fuzzy " feeling when your work is done -- except that it never is!!

Regards - Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 02:25 PM

Excellent work on "Doc Rowe", BlackAcorn ... a great example of what Wikipedia does best - SYNTHESIS!! You have done all the work of chasing down information in 30+ different sources, and synthesizing it into a coherent whole, for the benefit of others. Well done!

Also of course since the world is changing, and/or new sources may come to light, the article can evolve further as needed through time.

The new section "Writings" in the Steve Roud article is also an excellent addition.

Good stuff - Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: cnd
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 01:11 PM

Nice work BlackAcorn, looks good!


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 12:50 PM

Dick, "wikpedias rules are aimed at avoiding self promotion , and here you are suggesting that i make entries myself". Unless you're planning on only writing about yourself, how can it be self promotion? I'm betting that you would. It's not what Maggie meant, but it's not surprising, you assumed she meant you could write about you. What about all those other people you think they're missing?

I'm thinking including people who are at least somewhat widely known, and more info that simply a list.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 11:19 AM

Also, just to show how easy/straightforward shorter edits are - I've added a section to cite praise for Steve Roud's published writings; I've also added the previously missing citations that should see the 'unverified' banner removed from the top of the page as soon as admins get a chance to review. All that took about 45 minutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Roud


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 11:18 AM

Hello all - just to update, I've completed a page on Doc Rowe that has now been accepted by the editors:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doc_Rowe


...It took quite a long time (maybe 6 hours in total, from research, through writing, to uploading on the site), but it was written from scratch. The most arduous aspect was ensuring that there were references to evidence each element... But, I'm reasonably happy with it!

Other than formatting corrections, the only edits made by moderators were to remove a couple of superlatives that I'd slipped in there (fair enough, as Wikipedia seeks a neutral point-of-view).

I think the fact that Doc was already mentioned on other Wiki pages as the winner of the EFDSS Gold Badge and the Folklore Society Coote Lake Medal made acceptance of his notability quite a smooth affair, reinforced by the two killer quotes I've included in the introduction!

Now I just need to get someone to upload some pics of Doc that they own the copyright for, to Wikimedia Commons so that I can add an image or two to this page.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: GerryM
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 05:49 AM

"If there are ‘profiles’ of Mudcat anywhere else...." I wrote one for the website of the Folk Federation of New South Wales. But maybe I'm too closely associated with Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 01:55 AM

Maggie, busking is about playing music , you are judged purely on the merits of how you are on the day , the most honest of performing, you are not judged on a reputation built partly by self promotional bullshit,or as jim said
" the cult of the personality", all that personality cult stuff belong to and emanates from the pop music scene
in my experience when at you are busking you are giving people pleasure by making music, cheering people up, ,fairly important at the moment


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 01:30 AM

Stilly
wikpedias rules are aimed at avoiding self promotion , and here you are suggesting that i make entries myself.
Yesterday i went out busking a much better use of my time,than pissing about writing a lot of self promotional twaddle and indulging as Jim rightly puts it the furtherance of the cult of personality


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 11:41 PM

I should add, RE "[somebody should] explain what's good about his books" - Wkipedia relies on secondary sources (what someone has already written) about items such as books, records, etc. It does not give its own opinions... if such secondary sources disagree, it can report that, too - as per my section on "critical reception" of the (Australian) film "Travelling North":

"Critical reviews of the movie were largely positive, with one or two notable exceptions. On www.rogerebert.com, Roger Ebert gave the movie 3.5 stars, stating:

(quote) Nothing much really happens in "Traveling North," in the sense of large events to move the plot ahead... [But] This is a film of everyday life, and all the more moving because of that. It’s not a film of sentiment, but a film of love: It loves old Frank just as he is, but without forgiving him a single wart. And it loves Frances, too, for her loyalty but also because she sees the situation clearly and does not deceive herself.[7]

On the other hand, Hal Hinson, in the Washington Post, wrote:

(quote) What remains of the film is taken up with a catalogue of Frank's heart problems, his arguments with his doctor (Henri Szeps), and his self-centered despotism toward Frances, who suffers through all with her mouth puckered up like a disapproving schoolmarm. ... How much you like "Travelling North" may depend on how you respond to crusty old codgers who waddle around in their shorts with their ample guts hanging over their waistbands, bellowing out their general disdain for life and the living to all within earshot. Me? I'd rather eat dirt.[8]

--- As you can see, adequately sourced quotations can be included verbatim, so long as (in the Editor's vew) they say something of value to the article, and do so succinctly - otherwise they can be precis'ed, or filleted to produce the desired brevity.

Regards - Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 10:29 PM

Hi Jack,

If you do not think a page is as good as it should be, you can simply become an editor and fix it. As Wikipedia itself says: Be Bold ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold

If you really do not want to edit the article yourself, you can maybe put out a request here with the issues to be addressed more specifically and perhaps someone else will, if they have the interest to do so.

As to the "better photo" issue, with a few exceptions - normally for persons depicted who are no longer around - Wikipedia pages can only display photos that have been "gifted" for public use by their owners, e.g. as uploaded to Wikimedia Commons for that purpose. So I am guessing that there are no better ones of Steve Roud available for use at this time (although could be wrong), although that too can be fixed if anyone has a better photo or photos that they are willing to upload for the purpose.

Regards - Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 08:43 PM

I just looked up the Steve Roud page. It's dreadful.

Somebody please add a better photo and explain what's good about his books.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Malcolm Storey
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 08:17 PM

Just had a thought and viz a viz nothing in particular.

About 60 years ago myself and a work colleague Colin Page came second in a works do talent competition singing an unaccompanied version of the Everly Brothers hit Dream.

The girl that won was a better than average musician and singer and was much better looking than either Colin or me.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 02:15 PM

yes, Jim fair comment and you are a good perfoRmer..
It is the start of your song's entry into the folk process." quote Al, debatable but just your opinion, not fact, some modern songs do get mistaken for trad but certainly not every song that is written, then there is the problem with copyrighted songs,thAt they do not evolve and become folk processed ,lyric wise, the lyrics are set in stone and the composer has every right to object to changes, Anne Lister recently mentioned this as regards Icarus. IF A SONG WRITER WRITES A SONG HE/SHE INTENDS IT TO HAVE A CERTAIN MEANING.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 01:46 PM

DNB & New Grove mean nothing to me??- is the latter a replacement for the old Grove, that wonderful music pub in central Leeds? I hope not!

Of course I can't do Buddy Holly as well as Buddy Holly- he was the product of his own tradition- I do it my way, as it should be by someone from South Shields & make no apology for my Geordie accent.

I used to find my accent enabled me to get away with singing Irish songs in Ireland.

One fella in another wonderful old pub, Arundels of Schull, said he liked my version of Boolavogue & asked which county I was from- he was a bit puzzled when I said County Durham- he thought a bit & got the joke...


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 11:15 AM

I think maybe you're playing those Buddy Holly tracks inside your head without the use of a cd player

Jagger's version of Not Fade Away...?

James Taylor or don Maclean's version of Every day....?

that version of Love Hurts in Tutti Frutti

Even if you think these versions are vastly inferior to Buddy's, I'm sure Buddy and his family would be thrilled knowing that artists of this stature wanted to try to do their own interpretation. Or for that matter that Joe Bloggs down the folk club related to the song enough to want to play it.

for a songwriter there is no higher tribute. It is the start of your song's entry into the folk process. perhaps if we heard what singers were making of our songs in a couple of hundred years - we would not recognise our creation - but the process starts somewhere.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 11:07 AM

If I'm searching for information on types and sizes of computer cables and enter a general search in the Google search bar, Wikipedia is often the best choice in the top search results. There are many things that are perfectly good, clear, and succinct, without the marketing you'll find on commercial web sites.

Dick, we understand your position. Perfectly. We understood it the 21 other times you've come back and RESTATED it. Your work here is done. Now all that is left is you get yourself a Wikipedia account and start fixing or creating posts.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 11:06 AM

of courxe buddy had nothing to do with wiki, it did not exist , however buddy holly was not averse to the benefits publicity about himself, he was after all a pop star who had acareer and wanted to further it.
Jims point[ as i understand it] is that pop music and folk music and the uk folk revival are not the same or should not use the same tools to promote it,
Jim quote
If Wiki is acknowledged as being unreliable & has pernickety rules, why would anyone refer to it about anything at all. There are plenty of reliable places where 'folk' information is readily available!
just ask the collectors like Doc Rowe directly- they'd be glad to help, in my experience.

No, the only ones who are concerned are those who want to see their name in lights like BUDDY HOLLY et al.Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge - PM
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 04:52 AM

Like everything online, it's only as good as the material input by the alleged folk experts, so the various Wikis are totally arbitrary anyway.

Some of the material is certainly valid,but always down to personal preference- folk music has NOTHING to do with all this cult of personality- the music is what matters.

Who's in and who's out of a ridiculous pedia like this is totally irrelevant- get a life, the folk 'stars' who worry about such stuff are mainly a pain in the arse anyway- I'm sure Doc rowe doesn't give a monkey's.....

It doesn't matter how much practice you do or how many CDs you've made or how many tours of Brobdignag you've done, this thread seems to be about daft folkies to put in daft and unchecked information about other folkies - if they think you're worth it, they'll do it, but what value it has beats me.... and such inevitably duff information will be a HINDRANCE not a help to future researchers.
SO JIM SAYS THAT FOLK MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO WITH THIS CULT OF PERSONALITY
I agree with that point
but is using wiki to promote particular artists turning it in to a cult of personality?
. my opinion is this
the uk folk revival has already to some extent becopme a cult of personality
2. wiki, is only any use if it is reliable and comprehensive , otherwise people are better off using other refernce points, at the moment it is not comprehensive and not al;ways reliable, however it could be open to improvement if its rules were changed and if its moderators and contributors knew or were well informed about folk music .
3 that does not mean that tony rees does not know about the subject but he is only one contributor


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Malcolm Storey
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 10:37 AM

Jim

Had not seen Dick's post and when read prior to yours it does mitigate your post.

I think we can be sure Buddy had nothing to do with Wiki anything.

I would probably agree with you on the viability of Wiki folk - the knowledge pool is, by definition, too small.

I do use Wikipedia for other interests and it is far more accurate and useful and accessible.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 10:26 AM

animosity well i can only speak for myself
my domments were constructive criticism, as to how wiki could be improved.
as for buddy holly , i have yet to hear anyone who performed buddy holly songs as well as buddy holly.
that includes jim bainbridge and even andy caven.
jim. of course plays melodeon well, but sounds like a geordie singing buddy holly, the performance is of a good standard as one has got used to over the years from jim bainbridge ,of course being a geordie that is to be expected,that he sounds like a geordie
    but quite frankly if i want to hear buddy holly, i can put on a cd or listen to him on you tube,accompanied by the crickets and as far as i am concerned no one else is as good at buddy holly as buddy holly himself.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 10:05 AM

Why so much animosity (from a very small coterie) to the idea of providing a compact, referenced introduction to something written by people who know about it? Are Dick and Jim equally opposed to the DNB and the New Grove?

I mentioned one folkie who has so far been served rather badly by the Wiki model - Alistair Hulett. Most likely because the writer only knew about the first half of his career and didn't think to tell anyone outside Australia what they were doing. That can be fixed. On the other hand, this one is about as good as you could get within the space because Anne stayed put and information about her isn't scattered around the globe. What is there here for Jim or Dick to take exception to?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Feeney


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 09:08 AM

It's not "navel gazing". Perhaps "too meta"? But I can't imagine someone contributing to the Wiki who ISN'T "too closely associated" with Mudcat who'd contribute. Maybe someone out there in Snopesville, but people who'd know anything are members, or people who post to Mudcat. It would be like expecting a stranger to review your family dynamics.
Mudcat's too small, and if all the people who know about it are eliminated as objective sources, fergitaboutit.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 08:08 AM

I think the main problem with that Mudcat entry is that almost all the references are to the forum itself. If there are ‘profiles’ of Mudcat anywhere else (Digital Tradition, fRoots, EFDSS, etc etc) that could be directed to instead of/as well as these internal Mudcat links, I think that could go a long way towards clearing that banner.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 07:22 AM

Sandman
'navel gazing'
SRS is referring to the message from Wiki admin at the top of the page on
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudcat_Caf%C3%A9


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 05:16 AM

Malcolm, I think Dick meant that BUDDY HOLLY el al (his use of upper case) are already oh Wiki as they are well known & established & no need for folkies to promote such as BH.

I have no time for Wiki, and I think anyone who wastes their time with it (or its Wikifolk stuff) is DAFT, so if you think that is defamatory, so be it.

Also popular figures like BUDDY HOLLY & others are part of the folk process & as such, have long been part of my repertoire, but dome MY way.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 03:59 AM

Malcolm. no idea.
Stilly, could you clarify. iam not uhderstanding your drif, what navel gazing


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 01:28 AM

The Wikipedia folks have noticed the navel-gazing aspect on the Mudcat entry - there is a boilerplate entry at the top of the page:

This article may rely excessively on sources too closely associated with the subject, potentially preventing the article from being verifiable and neutral. Please help improve it by replacing them with more appropriate citations to reliable, independent, third-party sources. (April 2019) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 01:07 AM

Hi Sandra, well it's not my list, it is the set of names in the UK "Guinness Who's Who of Folk Music", published in 1993, uploaded as one possible "yardstick" against which Wikipedia's current coverage (in terms of artist articles) can be assessed. Comments are awaited with interest, as the northern hemisphere wakes up and we Oz folks settle down to a night in front of the telly, then off to bed!

One observation - of course if I had used another source, I may well have ended up with a different list. But the main "big names" are certainly there, along with a possibly representative percentage of the smaller ones (50%? 20%? how many are out there... as well of course as others who have emerged post-1993).

Cheers - Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 08:50 PM

geez, Tony, 533 & 86 entries! I gave up skimming thru in the 180s

What do you do when you are not busy? I have a few suggestions for Oz folk next time you are busy.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Malcolm Storey
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 08:18 PM

Just catching up - don't know why!?

Must ask the question.

Why was Buddy Holly's name in LARGE BLOCK CAPITALS in an earlier somewhat defamatory posting?

He has been dead nearly 60 years but is still a hero as far as I and a lot of other people are concerned.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 06:02 PM

yes there is a famous table tennis player who has the name dick the chopper miles


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Tony Rees
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 05:24 PM

You can add to a page about yourself so long as you "declare a conflict of interest" - e.g. see the box at top left on my Wikipedia user page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony_1212. Of course, changes and new statements must still be appropriately referenced, i.e. to something that is published outside of Wikipedia.

- Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 04:59 PM

I think it goes with the territory. If people write about you. they invariably get it all wrong.

You can't get worked up about it. Well you could... and I suppose sometimes you do. But nobody lives so long that you can afford to expend emotional energy on what people write who have no knowledge of you.

In the vast majority of cases you fling a mental insult at the idiot involved and just get on with what you do. And if that happens to be the serious attempt to create music - it is sufficient unto the day.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 04:53 PM

We had some pretty wild comments on the Wikipedia page about Mudcat once upon a time. I was describes as some sort of petty tyrant, and I always thought I was a pretty nice guy.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 04:43 PM

The whole "no self-promotion" bit must be an internal challenge for the Wiki management folks. I have a friend who found an article about himself and his work that had a lot of incorrect information. He didn't know who the original author was. As far as I know he and his business partner encountered no pushback when they went in and performed the corrections (military service, alma mater, more about the business, etc.)

There are levels of editing as far as if you have an account in the community, if you're logged in, etc. It used to be they'd publish your IP address for reference if you made edits on pages when not logged in. I haven't been back for a while but I used to dabble in there periodically. I'll have to see if the account is still current.

If there are accounts that get a lot of bickering they will lock them down and only certain individuals can edit them, to prevent the wild swinging back and forth of versions and revisions and back again.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Tony Rees
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 03:19 PM

OK Joe, thanks for the explanation, so long as you can sleep happy in your bed, no problem...

Returning to the main topic of the thread:

** Announcement **

After a number of days of effort, as foreshadowed above, I have produced a concordance between the 1993 publication "The Guinness Who's Who of Folk Music" (553 primary entries, plus an additional 86 "add ons" of possible secondary interest) and the present content of Wikipedia; acts already with a WP article show up with a blue link, acts with no article (under the name specified) show up with a red one. The list has been adjusted for possible conflicts, for example the first name on the list, Doris Abrahams, clashes with an existing "Doris Abrahams" page that is for a different person, so behind-the-scenes that link (if it should be created) would go to a new page that does not yet exist, entitled "Doris Abrahams (singer-songwriter)". (There is also an existing Dick Miles, but not the musician, same would apply).

So, this list - which should be self maintaining - allows the interested party to make an assessment of the completeness of Wikipedia coverage (at any current or future time) as compared to the selection of names listed in the Guinness volume. I leave it to others to comment further, and/or address any missing entries as they feel fit...

Oh yes, the list is here:
Missing encyclopedic articles/The Guinness Who's Who of Folk Music


Cheers - Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 02:39 PM

Hi, Tony -

I harbor no animosity, and I still give a an annual donation to Wikipedia. The facts are correct. I work for the folks who produced the Rise Up Singing books, and the Wikipedia page on one of the books was embarrassingly rosy. So, out of an abundance of caution, they informally blacklisted me. I'm happy for their concern for integrity.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Tony Rees
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 02:05 PM

In reply to Joe Offer: Joe, if you believe you may have been blacklisted in error, and can be bothered to pursue it, you can raise the matter at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents

in case this helps - this will get an opinion from an admin and possibly action, I would think...

It would help if you have a record of the chain of actions that led to your situation, and it is demonstrable that something unfair has occurred.

- Tony


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: G-Force
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 06:06 AM

I love Wikipedia, and can spend hours just surfing it, hoovering up information on anything I find interesting. It's not perfect, but nor is anything else.

Example: I have quite a deep interest in classical music. Wikipedia will tell me about many 'minor' composers who don't find their way even into a big fat tome like the Oxford Companion to Music.


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Subject: RE: Key folk figures absent from Wikipedia?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 04:14 AM

Hi, Tony - I get the impression that I have been tagged as suspect because I am associated with a number of well-known entities. One of those entities was deemed to have a self-promoting Wikipedia article (and I might agree). I had nothing to do with the Wikipedia article, but I was blacklisted because of my association with the entity. I am welcome to comment and to make suggestions, but not to do editing beyond spelling corrections. They even balked when I corrected a bad link. They accepted my correction, but told me not to do it again.


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