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BS: UK budget 2021

Bonzo3legs 04 Mar 21 - 08:15 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 04 Mar 21 - 02:18 PM
Bonzo3legs 04 Mar 21 - 05:38 PM
The Sandman 05 Mar 21 - 05:01 AM
The Sandman 05 Mar 21 - 05:04 AM
Bonzo3legs 05 Mar 21 - 05:49 AM
Bonzo3legs 05 Mar 21 - 01:03 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Mar 21 - 02:06 PM
Bonzo3legs 05 Mar 21 - 03:11 PM
The Sandman 05 Mar 21 - 03:41 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Mar 21 - 06:33 PM
BobL 06 Mar 21 - 02:34 AM
Mr Red 06 Mar 21 - 02:54 AM
The Sandman 06 Mar 21 - 03:04 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Mar 21 - 03:23 AM
The Sandman 06 Mar 21 - 04:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Mar 21 - 04:22 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Mar 21 - 04:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Mar 21 - 05:01 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Mar 21 - 05:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Mar 21 - 05:17 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Mar 21 - 06:03 AM
The Sandman 06 Mar 21 - 08:36 AM
The Sandman 06 Mar 21 - 08:39 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Mar 21 - 08:56 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 21 - 09:17 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Mar 21 - 10:40 AM
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Bonzo3legs 06 Mar 21 - 03:18 PM
The Sandman 06 Mar 21 - 03:22 PM
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Dave the Gnome 06 Mar 21 - 04:18 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 21 - 04:58 PM
Bonzo3legs 07 Mar 21 - 01:55 AM
The Sandman 07 Mar 21 - 05:06 AM
Bonzo3legs 07 Mar 21 - 05:08 AM
Bonzo3legs 07 Mar 21 - 05:19 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Mar 21 - 05:57 AM
Bonzo3legs 07 Mar 21 - 06:25 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Mar 21 - 07:37 AM
Bonzo3legs 07 Mar 21 - 07:47 AM
The Sandman 07 Mar 21 - 08:09 AM
Jos 07 Mar 21 - 08:49 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Mar 21 - 09:30 AM
Bonzo3legs 07 Mar 21 - 09:52 AM
SPB-Cooperator 07 Mar 21 - 10:13 AM
Bonzo3legs 07 Mar 21 - 10:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Mar 21 - 04:48 PM
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Bonzo3legs 14 Mar 21 - 04:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 21 - 04:40 AM
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Bonzo3legs 14 Mar 21 - 05:24 AM
Jos 14 Mar 21 - 05:49 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 21 - 08:43 AM
Bonzo3legs 14 Mar 21 - 09:22 AM
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Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 21 - 03:11 PM
Bonzo3legs 29 Mar 21 - 08:16 AM
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Bonzo3legs 01 Apr 21 - 09:36 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Apr 21 - 01:22 PM
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Bonzo3legs 02 Apr 21 - 07:34 AM
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Subject: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:15 AM

Not an entirely unexpected budget, but possibly more taxation rises in due course!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 02:18 PM

Covid debt & our revolting free-market inequality should be solved by taxing the rich - someone may deserve say 10 times more wealth than you but NOT 100s of times more; my WalkaboutsVerse poem on "Tax"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 05:38 PM

Don't agree.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 05:01 AM

I agree with wav, give it a break bonzo , you are a right wing provacateur


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 05:04 AM

i think you deliberately provoke to annoy left wing people on this forum, i would have thought that was against the spirit of this forum, nobody objects to differences of political opinions but you have admitted in the past to deliberately posting to annoy lefties


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 05:49 AM

I don't agree, but I think NHS workers might have been given a 2% payrise, which is 2% more than most of us will get. And Sandman, do NOT tell me what I can and cannot say.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 01:03 PM

Don't waste your exempt gifts allowances for Inheritance Tax saving!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 02:06 PM

The gift rule only applies if your estate is more than the nil-rate band. That means up to £325000 for a single person, and couples can pass on their allowance to their spouse when they die. The value of a house applies to the estate only after the last occupant dies. Few sources at at all clear about this, and the fear of the gift rule can give unnecessary worry.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 03:11 PM

Correct, but it's up to individuals to read the legislation and take advice.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 03:41 PM

I will say what i like within the rules of mudcat , i would ask you [not tell you], so i am asking not telling you, to not deliberately provoke people of leftie opinion, you have stated in the past that you enjoy doing this , so i am asking you [not telling you] to consider dave the gnomes advice to be a better person


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 06:33 PM

You appear to have it in for Bonzo, Dick. Now we know he's a twat and he knows he's a twat. ;-) But just leave it out, eh? Ain't gettin' yuh nowhere...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: BobL
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 02:34 AM

The NHS' increase should have been at least as big as that of the State retirement pension.
BTW does anyone know what proportion of the NHS budget is spent on employment costs, direct & indirect?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 02:54 AM

but possibly more taxation rises in due course!

COVID put us on a war footing. And the UK & US spent a lot of money they didn't have in fighting WW2. Austerity and high taxes followed in the wake.

All the signs are there. Unemployment. Stock market riding high on vapour. People hanging on until the all clear.

But hard times are coming, and we haven't got the measure of how hard. Yea, Yea, how could we? But it will change a lot of things (has), and change costs money. The hope is that there is a pay-back. So, anyone care to put a monetary value on COVID pay-back and compare it with the mortgage** we have taken out on the future? Before we postulate on the social costs involved.

**And I didn't factor-in the cost of the "B" word


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 03:04 AM

i am ASKING bonzo in the spirit of mudcat not to deliberately provoke lefties.
I DO NOT THINK HE IS A TWAT , HE HAS DIFFERENT POLITICAL OPINIONS THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM A TWAT.
this is about tolerance
I am asking him to consider being deliberately less provocative and not to deliberately provoke people with left opinions.Steve you are not a mod so quote yourself
But just leave it out, eh? Ain't gettin' yuh nowhere


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 03:23 AM

I will continue to suggest methods by which tax may be saved, If Sandman finds that to be "provoking lefties" then that is his problem to live with.

Now:
When setting up a new trading company from scratch, alphabet share arrangements can usually be set up from the start with relatively little complication and without fear of challenge from HMRC.

When changing the shares of an existing company, however, care must be taken to prevent HMRC invoking the settlements rules. Also, if shares are issued to family members at less than their market value and “by reason of their employment”, the transaction may need to be reported to HMRC on form 42 and an income tax charge may result.

To prevent problems with the settlements rules, generally any shares that are to be issued or gifted to family members should have full voting and capital rights, since shares that carry the right to a dividend (but no voting rights etc) represent a right to income (rather than anything more substantial). The gift of a right to income to a spouse or dependent child falls within the settlements rules.

If existing shareholders wish other family members to become shareholders, this is often best achieved by reclassifying and gifting some of the existing shares - rather than the company issuing entirely new shares. A gift of shares to family members does not need to be reported to HMRC on form 42 and, assuming the company is a trading company (rather than an investment company), any chargeable gain on the gift can be held over.

Here is an example of how this works in practice. Mr Smith holds 100 ordinary shares in his trading company ABC Ltd. He is married with two adult children. He reclassifies the shares into 80 A shares, 10 B shares, 5 C shares and 5 D shares, each holding the same rights with respect to voting and capital, but with independent rights to dividends.

Mr Smith then gifts the B shares to his wife, and the C and D shares to each daughter. If the market value of the shares exceeds their original cost, there will be a chargeable gain (even though we are talking about a gift here), but the gift to his wife will be exempt from capital gains tax (CGT) under the spousal transfer exemption, and the gains on the gifts to his daughters can be held over provided both parties make a hold over claim within the prescribed timescales.

Dividends can then be voted independently with respect to each class of share. Mr Smith still retains 80% of the issued share capital and 80% of the voting rights, and therefore retains, for all practical purposes, complete control of the company.

The holders of alphabet shares can receive up to £2,000 in dividends tax free - as can anyone else!

There may be important consequences further down the road, however, if and when ABC Limited is sold or liquidated. Unless Mr Smith’s wife or daughters happen to be directors or employees of the company and meet other qualifying criteria, any gain they make on the subsequent disposal of their B/ C/ D shares may not be eligible for Entrepreneur’s Relief, in which case they would pay CGT at rates of up to 20%, rather than, potentially, just 10%.

With four shareholders as opposed to just one, collectively they might benefit from four CGT Annual Exempt Amounts, but the benefit of that would need to be weighed up against any potential loss of Entrepreneur’s Relief.

A company that wishes to adopt alphabet shares will need to ensure its articles of association contain appropriate provisions spelling out the rights attached to each class of share; legal advice is therefore normally required. The wider consequences, particularly in terms of shareholder control, also need to be carefully considered.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 04:05 AM

ok bonzo lete us try to have a sensible tolerant conversation, what do you achieve by avoiding or saving tax.
1. less money for the government to spend on hspital maintence, less money for nurses and other frontline workers, empty field hospitals, less money available for fixing roads , less money availablefor preventing crime.
2
Your proposals do nothing to help the less well off in society, who have been put out of a job by brexit and the pandemic, the government needs to have money to pay for furlough schemes etc how else do they do it other than by taxation?
3 everyone who is a tax exile or to a lesser extent takes advantages of your advice, is only thinking about themselves they are being selfish, they are not thinking about the less well off in society.
4 society exits[ despite what Thatcher said] and for it to thrive it needs people who are concerned about the nation as a whole, not just themselves. being concerned about saving tax, is not seeing the whole political picture how it affects the rest of society, it is indicative of thatcherism " im allright jack ,sod you"
5 yes, i do pay tax, i pay motor tax, i pay tax on everything i buy.
i do not run a company [like the majority of mudcat members i guess], so your advice is of no use to me[ even if morally i was inclined to use it .
6 how many people on this forum will find your advice of any use to them?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 04:22 AM

Tax avoidance has always been in existance. The bigger issue is what the government do about it. Concentrating on the easy targets such as sole traders and the self employed does not gain the government much. Closing loopholes to the ones who avoid billions has a better net gain but is more difficult. I was once a private contractor with my own limited company and I used that to pay tax and national insurance as advised by my accountant. I see nothing either legally or morally wrong with that and it did not make much difference to our government. Large multi-nationals however do lose governments billions by finding loopholes that save them paying tax. The only way I see round that is for a global taxation authority to collect tax from these comapnies who avoid it and distribute the funds to those who need it. It would of course mean that those taxes go to those who really need it globally. I don't think much would go to the UK or US, Maybe that is the way it should be?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 04:44 AM

It would never work.

I am not giving advice Sandman, merely pointing folks towards tax savings to be made, which are wasted on you, since you don't have a proper job!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 05:01 AM

Probably not, Bonzo. We can but dream.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 05:07 AM

Use the starter rate for savings If your income from a job or pension is below the £12,500 in 2020-21, but you earn income through interest on savings, you may also qualify for the starter savings allowance. Any interest you earn up to £5,000 is tax-free. This will be in addition to your personal savings allowance, meaning you could earn as much as £18,500 before paying tax.!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 05:17 AM

Very few people earn interest up to £5000 but many have missed out on the married persons allowance where some of the lower earners tax allowance can be transferred to the higher earner. This happened with me and Mrs G. Luckily I found out and can retro claim 4 years worth so I only miss out on 2015/16. Should get a cheque from HMRC soon :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 06:03 AM

But SURELY you should have got Sandman's approval first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 08:36 AM

Bonzo, why are you turning on me, is it not possible to have an adult discussion without quote
But SURELY you should have got Sandman's approval first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 08:39 AM

bonzo do you think taxation and income tax is necessary ,and if so what should the tax be used for, would you like to seetax spent on the NHS


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 08:56 AM

Please show a little spark Sandman, if you can't see that I'm only joking I give up!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 09:17 AM

Three little words that'll make Bonzo fume: "graduated land tax."

(A fuming Bonzo is a phenomenon of great beauty...)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 10:40 AM

No it's irrelevant in the UK!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 02:07 PM

It shouldn't be!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 03:18 PM

Possibly!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 03:22 PM

i asked a question i am interested in your views on taxation and how it should be spent.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 04:09 PM

bonzo ,
i would like to clarify i do not think you are a twat for having different political opinions.
I would like to be able to discuss certain points in an adult way . if you are making a joke to avoid misunderstanding perhaps a smiley might help.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 04:18 PM

I don't think Bonzo is a twat for having different political opinions. I think he is a twat for many other reasons. He understands that and thinks I am a twat as well. We understand each other and can have a laugh. I think... :-s


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 04:58 PM

Let's face it. We're all twats. I'm very happy to be a twat. Twatifferousness is the only way to be. Once you're a twat, you can only escape twatdom by becoming a better person.


Oops, wrong thread....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 01:55 AM

In answer to your question Sandman, tax liabilities must be calculated in the manner prescribed by the current tax legislation. Any allowances available to an individual or company must be claimed, otherwise the calculation is wrong, whether you agree with the allowances or not.

As to how taxes should be spent, that is the job of the Treasury to decide and ultimately the Chancellor.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 05:06 AM

Bonzo the public pay taxes should they not have a say in howit is spent ?
you pay tax bnomzo
does it not upset you when it is spent on things you do not approve of. answer this question please do you think nurses deserve a pay increase, and if you think they do how do you propose to finance that
obviously if income tax is abolished you would have less work to do


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 05:08 AM

No


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 05:19 AM

I definitely think that nurses deserve their pay increase, very sad that there are insufficient funds to pay them more, but we are all in the same boat.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 05:57 AM

Nurses and other front-line NHS workers have definitely NOT been in the same boat as the rest of us. How many people have you watched die with a plastic tube down their throats whilst simultaneously taking your own life in your hands?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 06:25 AM

I'm not talking about that, on which we all agree. I'm talking about wages.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 07:37 AM

So am I. Nurses were promised a 2.1% increase for the coming year under a settlement made three years ago and enshrined in law. After all the heroism they've shown over the last year, this government has snatched that away from them and given them what is, in effect, a pay cut instead. I seem to recall Johnson standing on the step to applaud them not so long ago. As an arch-Tory, Bonzo, you of all people should understand supply and demand. We are short of 40-50,000 nurses and low pay is a big factor in that. On top of that, thousands of physically and emotionally exhausted nurses are threatening to leave the profession, feeling with some justification that they are unappreciated by this government. A government that can afford to throw hundreds of billions at the economy in a desperate attempt to keep the country afloat can afford to keep its promise and pay our nurses properly.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 07:47 AM

You say I'm arch-tory!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 08:09 AM

brexit could be a factor as well as low wages immigrant workers are not going to feel as comfortable as before


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Jos
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 08:49 AM

The government could have saved face by saying that the 1% was on top of the 2.1%.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 09:30 AM

Well you're hardly a lefitie-peftie, Bonzo!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 09:52 AM

That's true!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 10:13 AM

Are you suggesting that through proper tax management that a nurse or a family living in one room can make as much through tax management as a company director or someone inheriting a million pound property.

Please enlighten us as to how mere mortals like us can get refunds from HMRC that are exponentially more than our earnings.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 10:36 AM

No, I am saying that everyone should claim all appropriate allowances where available, as expected by HMRC, and if they don't they are fools.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 04:48 PM

Trouble is, Bonzo, that HMRC do not make it obvious or easy for anyone to claim their "appropriate allowances". Not eveyone can afford the services of an accountant of your standing. Unless of course you are saying you would provide your services pro bono to nurses and others who have neither the time nor money to go down that route. If you are, well done, If not, maybe you should.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 04:53 PM

Really!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 04:29 AM

Don't forget that thousands of businesses/shops etc will show losses for the covid period because they have either not traded at all or on a much reduced basis. It follows that there will be a colossal shortfall in tax grab for the treasury, so where is the money to come from in order to pay nurses this mythical increase in wages??????????????????????????????


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 04:40 AM

How much have they found to spend on the dead duck torrent missile program, Bonzo? Or course the big difference there is that the money for trident is justified because it lines the pockets of their cronies.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 04:42 AM

Btw - question to moderators.

This is a UK politics topic. Is it ok to have multiple ones of those now?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 05:24 AM

I googled "torrent missile program" but no luck. In any case, we MUST have an up to date defence system.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Jos
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 05:49 AM

I assumed that 'torrent' is either a result of predictive text, or an auto-correct version of a misspelt 'trident'.
I cannot abide predictive text or auto-correct.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 08:43 AM

From the FT, 18 Jan.

The head of the UK’s test and trace programme has defended paying hundreds of private consultants an average of £1,000 a day as she set out plans to spend billions on rapid testing technologies in the coming months...

...There are 900 consultants from Deloitte working on the government’s test and trace programme, earning an average day rate of £1,000 — roughly £22,000 a month — David Williams, second permanent secretary at the Department of Health and Social Care, told the MPs.


But we can only afford to give nurses an effective pay cut, eh, Bonzo? And as we are short of at least 40,000 nurses, with thousands more set to leave, exhausted and traumatised by the pandemic, have you momentarily and conveniently set aside the Tory mantra of supply and demand?

Incidentally, the BMJ has stated that test and trace (costing tens of billions) has had no effect on the pandemic.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 09:22 AM

£1,000 per day is not unusual for highly qualified and specialised consultants working on government projects, nothing I can do about it, it is what it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 10:57 AM

Is your real name Pontius Pilate?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 03:11 PM

Trident indeed but for all the good it does it may as well be torrent. Beside the point anyway. The point is that the government do have enough money to award nurses a decent pay rise. The just chose to use the money greasing the palms of their mates in the arms industry.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 08:16 AM

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/967202/Super_deduction_factsheet.pdf

Lefties will love this!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 03:46 PM

In a nutshell:

For expenditure incurred from 1 April 2021 until the end of March 2023, companies can claim 130% capital allowances on qualifying plant and machinery investments.
• Under the super-deduction, for every pound a company invests, their taxes are cut by up to
25p.

• This change makes the UK’s capital allowance regime more internationally competitive, lifting the net present value of our plant and machinery allowances from 30th in the OECD to 1st.
The new Capital Allowances offer
As a result of measures announced at this Budget, businesses will now benefit from four
significant capital allowance measures:

• The super-deduction – which offers 130% first-year relief on qualifying main rate plant and machinery investments until 31 March 2023 for companies.

So, if a company invests £1 million in qualifying plant and machinery, it will receive an allowance against profits of £1,300,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 05:45 PM

In a nutshell that means £300,000 profits are tax free?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Mar 21 - 01:55 AM

Assuming that the £1m expenditure is for qualifying plant and machinery, the allowance against profits would be £1,300,000 - there you go!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Mar 21 - 06:02 AM

Thanks Bonzo, what I should have said is that an additional £300,000 is tax free.

Nice work if you can get it eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Howard Jones
Date: 30 Mar 21 - 06:26 AM

What is often overlooked when tax avoidance is discussed is that the purpose of tax is not only to raise revenue to pay for public services. It is also one of the few levers a government has to influence behaviour. It imposes taxes on things it wants to discourage, such as fags and booze. It offers tax reliefs on savings because it wants to encourage people to provide for their future rather than have to fall back on the state. It offers tax incentives to businesses to encourage them to invest in deprived parts of the country, or in certain industries it wants to encourage, or to support start-ups.

Of course these can sometimes be exploited, but these loopholes are usually quickly closed. However I see nothing wrong in claiming legitimate tax reliefs, it is what the government wants you to do. Money saved, whether in an ISA or a pension, does not just sit there, those institutions invest it to create wealth and jobs (which are themselves then taxed).


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 03:55 PM

Absolutely right Howard Jones.

Consider this - a profitable farming company making average taxable profits of £300k each year decides to update it's harvesting equipment. It takes out a bank loan for £1,000,000 in April 2021 to buy 2 best quality tractors, a combine harvester and 2 lorries. This attracts a "capital allowances super deduction of £1,300,000. The taxable profit before deduction of capital allowances for the year ended 31 March 2022 is expected to fall to £150k, which after deduction of capital allowances leaves a loss of £1,150,000. This can be carried back for 3 years to relieve £900,000 profits, resulting in a corporation tax refund of £171,000, and the balance of losses amounting to £250k can be carried forward against future profits.

An example of good tax planning by claiming legitimate tax reliefs!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 04:23 PM

It imposes taxes on things it wants to discourage, such as fags and booze. quote
Hardly..those two things they know are addictive,so they tax them to raise revenue to pay for the cost of treating those addictions, to copver the costs of NHS Treatment
likewise they impose motor tax to raise money to repair roads not to discourage road travel, if they wanted that they would also reduce the cost of public transport


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 05:46 PM

I'm with you there, Dick, and I'd also point out that increasing taxes on fags and booze hardly affects the wealthy but has a big impact on the less well off. The Tories know full well who to target. We're all in it together, innit...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 06:12 PM

"likewise they impose motor tax to raise money to repair roads"

Ha,ha that's a good one. I take it that's it a while since you have driven here.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 06:49 PM

Yep. We drove from Bude to Barnstaple yesterday (allowed at last!). The A39 between Kilkhampton and Bideford was a bloody disgrace. Potholes by the thousands, many of which would be lethal to an unsuspecting cyclist.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 01:51 AM

When I’m out walking my dog, I encounter a great many footpath-hogging, bell-less cyclists who could be lethal to an unsuspecting pedestrian.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 02:03 AM

Bloody right, we get thoughtless infestations of cyclists frequently!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 02:59 AM

yes bonzo, some cyclists are thoughtless, so are some car drivers, so are some joggers, the important point is that car drivers are not as vulnerable as cyclists pedestrians and joggers they are protected inside a car , Some drive too close to cycists, overtake on blind bends etc as an amateur cyclist [non lycra ]and one who cycles to look at the landscape not just intent on pedalling ferociously. I try to leave room for cars to overtake if i see the road is clear ahead, i beckon cars on.
as a car driver, i wish other cyclists would not ride in twos and would ride single file.
but worst of the lot are joggers who have plugs ion their ears so that they cannot hear, who think that other walkers must make way. who do not give walkers social distance .. one almost knocked me over on one occasion with their ears plugged they cannot hear cars and are a danger to themselves


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 03:56 AM

Well I've been menaced by idiots as a cyclist, a motorist and a pedestrian. But the menaces are a small minority. What are not a small minority round here are dog owners who fail to pick up the shite and dog owners who have those stupid leads that can stretch to about ten yards long. The shite non-pickerupperers are a large minority and the stupid lead-owners are a majority. As are the idiots who can't control their dogs.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 04:11 AM

yes i was assaulted [years ago] by a car driver and had to have stitches above my eye ,this madman then followed me, when he recognised my vehicle i pulled up locked my car doors and windows as he banged on my van and threatened me.
a week later, i was running a shop in east london,and was taking a break and a cup of tea and i saw this nutter banging on someone elses car. i agree dog owners and their shite are a menace


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 06:13 AM

Do not include me in your generalisation Sandman, I ALWAYS pick up our greyhound's crap and leave in a designated bin if available or if not, take it home in a crap bag.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 07:22 AM

I completely agree, Steve and Dick dog-owners who don’t dispose of their dogs’ shit properly, and who don’t exercise good control over their dogs are a menace. Not only that, but they give cynophobes and excuse to give in to their irrational, immature fear and to troll good, responsible dog-owners on Internet forums like this one.

Fortunately, I don’t fall into any of those categories, my conscience is completely clear.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 07:48 AM

”Fortunately, I don’t fall into any of those categories, my conscience is completely clear.

By which I mean, of course, that I don’t fall into the first two categories. I always clear up after my dog without fail, and I spent a fortune and every Sunday morning for two years on taking my dog to training classes run by a professional dog-trainer.

And, as a self-professed ‘scientist’ Steve, you more than most should understand the foolishness of making sweeping, broad-brush assertions about groups of people for which you have no proof whatsoever. Ive gone through this several times with you before, but your childish fear of dogs seems to over-ride your rationality - you have no idea of the balance of people who pick up vs. those who don’t, because the ones who pick up leave no visible proof of their actions, unlike those who leave their dog-shit lying around.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 08:16 AM

Our grey is never off lead, except in a rented enclosed dog field, because whatever recall she had in racing kennels is long forgotten.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 08:26 AM

ia m not including you in anything, i am talking as steve was, about dog owners who dont poop a scoop.
bonzo you are of little interest to me, i had even forgotten that you owned a dog


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 09:36 AM

Noted


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 01:22 PM

I haven't broad-brushed anybody, thanks. I talked about minorities, majorities and "dog owners who..." - plenty of "if the cap fits". And no broad-brushing.

Sat in a park in Truro today having our picnic (we were the warmest place in the country today at 20C) and was hassled around my feet by two extremely over-excited terriers off their leads. Their owners, strolling close by, did absolutely sod all about it. Half an hour later, an elderly woman with one of those ugly, baby-eating dogs on a ten-yard lead allowed her cur to dash at my legs, forcing me to put them up on the bench. Two incidents of dogs totally out of control in half an hour. Not untypical.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 02:23 PM

WTF does that nonsense have to do with me, or Bonzo for that matter. You’re simply trying to project ‘blame’ for your childish, irrational fear on to the dog and its owner. You’re the one with the problem, you’re the big wuss who daren’t confront his rampant cynophobia, it’s nothing to do with the dog and it’s owner.

Your problem Steve.

When you decide to start talking some sense, call me back. Till then, I’ve better things to do...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 03:15 PM

When did I blame you or Bonzo? I fully recognise that there are such people as responsible and competent dog-owners. But you should also recognise there there are lots of the other kind, that they let your side down and they often cause a nuisance. If you were to hassle me in the street, or do a public poo, you would likely be arrested. I feel that I have the right to go around free from the unwanted attentions, and faeces, of out-of-control dogs. I suppose you consider that it's OK to have a dog pestering me in public "because he's only being friendly."   Yah boo sucks to that.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 02:52 AM

I walk our grey well away from tiny dogs and their owners!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 03:38 AM

All this talk about dogs makes me nervous.

As this is the budget thread maybe there should be some talk about reintroducing the dog licence. Got to try and cut that deficit somehow.

It seems that dogs have to be licensed in Northern Ireland.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 04:06 AM

nobody is being dog matic about dog shit. Backwoodsman or their owners, you are a responsioble dog owner, as far as your dogs shit is concerned its doggone


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 04:07 AM

I think a dog licence could be a good idea. Greyhound size should be cheapest rising in price to the little lap dogs that "are only being friendly"!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 05:56 AM

Hundred quid a year licence. Mandatory training, on pain of confiscation of dog if you then can't demonstrate perfect control. Thousand pound fine for unpicked-up shite. No dog ever off lead in any public place. Dogs banned from all beaches. There. I could live with that.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 05:56 AM

I completely agree that Dog Licences should be re-introduced, and I’d go for a minimum of £100 a year, with the possibility of a dispensation for individuals who can show real need of a companion, but genuine hardship that such a licence fee would cause - e.g. old people who live alone and on pension.

But who would deal with all the dumped and abandoned dogs that result from its introduction? That could be a major issue...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 05:58 AM

That was for Bonzo, Dick, et al, not you Steve. You can go fuck yourself, you big daft girl.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 06:04 AM

If I had the ill-fortune to encounter you in the real world, I’d tell my dog to bit your balls...if you actually had a pair.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 06:04 AM

Bite.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 06:13 AM

Anyway, as I said before, come back when you’ve recovered from you hysteria and panic attacks. You can get help and treatment for that kind of irrational loss of control you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 07:34 AM

Yes dumped dogs would be a problem, a lot of dogs are dumped already.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 07:48 AM

"if you actually had a pair"

A little while back a bloke sidled up to me in the pub and said to me, all confidentially like, "Hey, mate, between you and me we have five bollocks."

"How's that then?" said I, "Have you only got the one?"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 08:03 AM

”Yes dumped dogs would be a problem, a lot of dogs are dumped already.”

Indeed they are, Bonz, far too many. And, of course, even more are stolen. They should throw the key away for dog-thieves and dog-fighting organisers and their followers.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK budget 2021
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 10:57 AM

This thread has to do with a budget? How far back up to I have to scroll before I find that topic being covered?

We are seeing a lot more of these political UK threads again. Thread creep is recognized and may be nipped in the bud because there was a rule - not so fierce as what some recommend for the treatment of dog owners in the UK, but still, don't keep starting new UK political BS threads. It's bad enough all of the US political threads Donuel is starting (and those are going to start to go away also.)


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Subject: BS: Saving tax
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 04:14 AM

Before the UK Budget thread disappears:

Not an entirely unexpected budget, but possibly more taxation rises in due course!

I will continue to suggest methods by which tax may be saved, If Sandman finds that to be "provoking lefties" then that is his problem to live with.

Now:
When setting up a new trading company from scratch, alphabet share arrangements can usually be set up from the start with relatively little complication and without fear of challenge from HMRC.

When changing the shares of an existing company, however, care must be taken to prevent HMRC invoking the settlements rules. Also, if shares are issued to family members at less than their market value and “by reason of their employment”, the transaction may need to be reported to HMRC on form 42 and an income tax charge may result.

To prevent problems with the settlements rules, generally any shares that are to be issued or gifted to family members should have full voting and capital rights, since shares that carry the right to a dividend (but no voting rights etc) represent a right to income (rather than anything more substantial). The gift of a right to income to a spouse or dependent child falls within the settlements rules.

If existing shareholders wish other family members to become shareholders, this is often best achieved by reclassifying and gifting some of the existing shares - rather than the company issuing entirely new shares. A gift of shares to family members does not need to be reported to HMRC on form 42 and, assuming the company is a trading company (rather than an investment company), any chargeable gain on the gift can be held over.

Here is an example of how this works in practice. Mr Smith holds 100 ordinary shares in his trading company ABC Ltd. He is married with two adult children. He reclassifies the shares into 80 A shares, 10 B shares, 5 C shares and 5 D shares, each holding the same rights with respect to voting and capital, but with independent rights to dividends.

Mr Smith then gifts the B shares to his wife, and the C and D shares to each daughter. If the market value of the shares exceeds their original cost, there will be a chargeable gain (even though we are talking about a gift here), but the gift to his wife will be exempt from capital gains tax (CGT) under the spousal transfer exemption, and the gains on the gifts to his daughters can be held over provided both parties make a hold over claim within the prescribed timescales.

Dividends can then be voted independently with respect to each class of share. Mr Smith still retains 80% of the issued share capital and 80% of the voting rights, and therefore retains, for all practical purposes, complete control of the company.

The holders of alphabet shares can receive up to £2,000 in dividends tax free - as can anyone else!

There may be important consequences further down the road, however, if and when ABC Limited is sold or liquidated. Unless Mr Smith’s wife or daughters happen to be directors or employees of the company and meet other qualifying criteria, any gain they make on the subsequent disposal of their B/ C/ D shares may not be eligible for Entrepreneur’s Relief, in which case they would pay CGT at rates of up to 20%, rather than, potentially, just 10%.

With four shareholders as opposed to just one, collectively they might benefit from four CGT Annual Exempt Amounts, but the benefit of that would need to be weighed up against any potential loss of Entrepreneur’s Relief.

A company that wishes to adopt alphabet shares will need to ensure its articles of association contain appropriate provisions spelling out the rights attached to each class of share; legal advice is therefore normally required. The wider consequences, particularly in terms of shareholder control, also need to be carefully considered.

Use the starter rate for savings If your income from a job or pension is below the £12,500 in 2020-21, but you earn income through interest on savings, you may also qualify for the starter savings allowance. Any interest you earn up to £5,000 is tax-free. This will be in addition to your personal savings allowance, meaning you could earn as much as £18,500 before paying tax.!!

Consider this - a profitable farming company making average taxable profits of £300k each year decides to update it's harvesting equipment. It takes out a bank loan for £1,000,000 in April 2021 to buy 2 best quality tractors, a combine harvester and 2 lorries. This attracts a "capital allowances super deduction of £1,300,000. The taxable profit before deduction of capital allowances for the year ended 31 March 2022 is expected to fall to £150k, which after deduction of capital allowances leaves a loss of £1,150,000. This can be carried back for 3 years to relieve £900,000 profits, resulting in a corporation tax refund of £171,000, and the balance of losses amounting to £250k can be carried forward against future profits.

An example of good tax planning by claiming legitimate tax reliefs!!!


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