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BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?

Helen 19 Feb 21 - 11:37 AM
Mrrzy 19 Feb 21 - 12:19 PM
Helen 19 Feb 21 - 12:39 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Feb 21 - 12:44 PM
Mrrzy 19 Feb 21 - 12:49 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Feb 21 - 01:55 PM
Backwoodsman 19 Feb 21 - 03:35 PM
mg 19 Feb 21 - 09:43 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Feb 21 - 05:14 AM
punkfolkrocker 20 Feb 21 - 05:31 AM
Jack Campin 20 Feb 21 - 05:41 AM
Helen 20 Feb 21 - 05:45 AM
punkfolkrocker 20 Feb 21 - 05:55 AM
Jos 20 Feb 21 - 06:06 AM
Helen 20 Feb 21 - 06:18 AM
Mrrzy 20 Feb 21 - 09:33 AM
Jack Campin 20 Feb 21 - 09:49 AM
Helen 20 Feb 21 - 08:47 PM
Helen 21 Feb 21 - 02:42 PM
Helen 21 Feb 21 - 03:46 PM
Mrrzy 21 Feb 21 - 08:50 PM
Helen 21 Feb 21 - 09:45 PM
Helen 21 Feb 21 - 10:49 PM
Mr Red 22 Feb 21 - 03:22 AM
Helen 22 Feb 21 - 05:20 AM
Mrrzy 22 Feb 21 - 08:42 AM
mg 24 Feb 21 - 02:56 PM
Helen 24 Feb 21 - 03:08 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Feb 21 - 07:56 PM
Helen 24 Feb 21 - 08:08 PM
Jeri 24 Feb 21 - 09:23 PM
mg 24 Feb 21 - 11:29 PM
Helen 24 Feb 21 - 11:35 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Feb 21 - 04:33 AM
Jeri 25 Feb 21 - 09:55 AM
Helen 25 Feb 21 - 01:19 PM
mg 25 Feb 21 - 04:38 PM
Mrrzy 25 Feb 21 - 04:58 PM
Backwoodsman 25 Feb 21 - 05:02 PM
Helen 25 Feb 21 - 05:04 PM
robomatic 25 Feb 21 - 10:36 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Feb 21 - 03:20 AM
Doug Chadwick 26 Feb 21 - 03:46 AM
Mrrzy 26 Feb 21 - 10:35 AM
leeneia 26 Feb 21 - 01:12 PM
Mrrzy 26 Feb 21 - 07:31 PM
Donuel 27 Feb 21 - 09:37 AM
Helen 27 Feb 21 - 01:18 PM
leeneia 27 Feb 21 - 01:52 PM
Helen 27 Feb 21 - 02:28 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 19 Feb 21 - 11:37 AM

Mrrzy, the three foods you mention are sugary, so maybe it's sugar which is the culprit for your mood swings, more than just plain carbs. Orange juice, even if it has no added sugar, still has fruit sugars which are quickly absorbed.

Although, I remember that in one of your early posts you also mentioned the keto is considered beneficial for seizures, so two different health issues.

Anyway, your sugar hit might have been exaggerated because you have cut down on sugar and then you threw three sugary hits into your body in a relatively short period of time. It might be worth considering eating a piece of fruit for a slower, more balanced release of sugar into your system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Feb 21 - 12:19 PM

Probably so, Helen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 19 Feb 21 - 12:39 PM

When I was in high school my Mum was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes so we all cut back on sugar, gradually at first and then more completely over time. After I adjusted to the very low sugar lifestyle a sugary drink or cake would be a sudden shock to my system whereas, before cutting back, I would not have even noticed the sugar. I still don't eat much sugar and I don't miss it.

If you are interested, I have a couple of recipes for a fairly quick and easy orange and almond cake or chocolate brownies - both using processed almonds instead of flour. The cake has a few eggs so it is higher protein than the usual cake recipes. I never put much sugar in them. You could make them and freeze slices for sugar-hits. In case of sugar-hit emergencies, just open the freezer.

Different fruit can be used for the cake. The original recipe I saw was an apple cake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 21 - 12:44 PM

We gave up fruit juice years ago. Instead, we eat an orange or a couple of tangerines each every day (there is so much tomato, green veg and potato in what we eat that we can definitely easily do without the citrus vitamin C, though fresh fruit contains fibre whereas juice contains next to none, and we like 'em). Fresh orange juice ("not from concentrate") contains about the same amount of sugar as, or even a bit more than, coca-cola. I'm a bit suspicious of grapefruit and grapefruit juice. I've heard things...and, let's face it, I can do without.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Feb 21 - 12:49 PM

By fruit juice, I mean a splash in a glass of seltzer. Not a glass of fruit juice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 21 - 01:55 PM

Is that fizzy water?


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Feb 21 - 03:35 PM

Thatís what Iíve always understood Ďseltzerí to mean, Steve - carbonated water.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: mg
Date: 19 Feb 21 - 09:43 PM

I am someone for whom the keto diet or similar is perfect. I do just great on high(er) fat..i could eat a pound of butter a day and not gain weight. One muffin a day and I probably would skyrocket. I am overweight by between twenty and thirty pounds. Could knock that back and will. Just had a perfect physical..except for toenails..TMI.

People keep saying if you go off keto you will gain weight. Of course you will. That means the keto type of diet is what you need. It is not for everyone. There was a book out years ago about body type..not blood type. Four types of diets worked for people..and I expect most were of North American heritage. one type did great with vegetarian, high carb. One did well with the "standard american diet." The kind that everyone is supposed to favor. The third group needed more protein and fat but lighter proteins like chicken and fish. The fourth group are the ones that they said became diabetic. They needed darker, heavier fats and proteins..red meat, sausage, butter, etc. If they do not eat like this, they tend to be diabetic. They..I..can not process carbohydrates. It sort of depends on what your ancestors thrived on..if you have ancestors from one place. I am Irish and Scots and other British and Dutch. Way back when there was lots of protein..Irish often were herdswomen. In the olden days they did not live on potatoes.

So they say to try a low carb diet for two weeks. If you feel ghastly, have digestive problems, stop it. Try a high carb diet in a bit. If you feel great, lose weight, that diet is for you.

If you feel great, as I do on low carb, higher fat, you will know pretty soon. Probably don't cold turkey but cut back continuously for a while. You should lose weight, and all test results should improve. This means this type of eating is for you. It is not for the others. If you feel great, you lose excess weight, you have more energy, your medical indexes are improving...you are OK'd for this...but you have to eat this way, more or less, always. You don't get to lose twenty pounds and go back to what made you gain twenty pounds in the first place. Trial and error...if you are eating the right foods, you will know it by how you feel and look. Guess what else..you might marry someone with different metabolism and ethnic heritage. you might eat differently. your children might have different needs. One might inherit your Nigerian metabolism and another your Korean and another your English. So you might all better learn how to cook.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 05:14 AM

The evidence for the long-term benefits of "keto" is thin and there are risks. It's very important that anyone who thinks they have a medical need to drastically alter their diet should consult a doctor. That would include anyone who thinks they "can't handle carbs." That strongly suggests a medical condition that needs professional attention. Otherwise, keto is just another fad diet, and not a very safe one. I'm posting this to counterbalance your enthusiastic advocacy, which I feel is somewhat misplaced.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 05:31 AM

I'm currently staying on my own at a family home,
while I clear it out and close it down.

Right now my primary diet is frozen microwave ready meals,
plain salted crisps, and Quavers;
as I finish off whatever food was left in the house..

Healthily balanced by one apple and banana per day.

There's some tins of corned beef and various other canned items in the larder,
with expired best by dates going back 3 or 4 years..

.. and a bar of cadbury's chocolate which expired in 2019..

.. hhhhhhmmm.. if it was a post zombie apocalypse I'd have to risk eating anything I can find...


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 05:41 AM

D'Adamo's "blood type diet" is pseudoscientific hokum.

Something not mentioned yet: substituting fruit and fruit sugars for sucrose is a very bad idea for some people. There are several different kinds of fructose intolerance, some of which can lead to life-threatening psychiatric or medical emergencies. None is very common but there are a lot of them and they're often misdiagnosed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 05:45 AM

What makes you think that people who post in this thread are not consulting their doctor? Have you asked the question, or are you just leaping to conclusions again?


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 05:55 AM

Just under a year ago I cut out eating raw tomato with evening meals.
Trial and error to see if it had any relation to my IBS.

There does seem to have been an improvement.
But I can't quantify or prove it..

Throughout my life I've had to test cutting out various foods,
without any clear indication that it made a significant difference to eczema and gut problems...???

I stopped taking milk in tea nearly 40 years ago.
I just prefer it that way now.

I gave up cheddar cheese for a few years,
to test if it was an eczema trigger;
and, it was also on the banned list while taking gym training seriously..

That proved a sacrifice too far..
I'm a West country boy I needs my daily cheddar...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jos
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 06:06 AM

mg, what is a "standard american diet"?

My imagined version of it involves ham and eggs and pancakes and maple syrup (all on the same plate) for breakfast; burger or hot dog and fries with ketchup, washed down with coca-cola and/or milkshake, for lunch; and in the evening, T-bone steak with fries, or a barbecue, followed by apple pie and cream squirted from a can.
So plenty of protein and fats, but plenty of carbs as well.
I know the recipe thread comes up with many other suggestions of what Americans eat, but I rather think most mudcatters are not really "standard americans".
Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 06:18 AM

pfr, the child I referred to earlier had an egg allergy, eczema and asthma. Cutting out the acid foods was to help with the eczema and cutting out dairy foods was to help with the asthma. That was based on advice given to me by his father. It appeared to be working because he had very little eczema and no asthma attacks in the two years that I knew him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 09:33 AM

Jos, I think that pretty much sums up the standard American diet, but you left out a few things:

Boxed mac&cheese
Pasteurized processed American cheese food
Cheeze Whiz [worse than cream from a can]
Heavily sugared breakfast cereal
Processed meats
Processed meal kits like Hamburger Helper, ShakeNbake
Cake mixes
Recipes that say Only 3 Ingedients but one is canned condensed soup
Instant Rice
...


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 09:49 AM

Most doctors know essentially nothing about nutrition. They get about two hours' lectures on it during an entire medical degree course. And only specialists will know anything about food intolerance and special dieta. Try finding one.

Dietitians are not much better. The standard text, by Bryony Thomas, used to cover diets for specific medical conditions but eliminated all that in the current edition. It seems to be intended to teach people how not starve patients in hospitals and nursing homes, and no more than that.

"See your doctor" isn't a lot of help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 08:47 PM

Thanks Donuel.

When I was grading undergraduate papers/essays, I would be awarding marks on papers which showed effective research or information gathering processes, effective evaluation and analysis of the facts, evidence and the review of other research, a good proposition of the theory or proposal in the paper, good evaluation and explanation of that proposal, good proposal and explanation of the process chosen for the study, good deductive logic and clear evaluation of whether the initial proposal of the paper was proved correct or whether further questions were raised and further study may be required.

Opinions and beliefs for the proposed study could be explained within the introductory part of the paper, but if opinions and beliefs were not sustained by the outcomes of the proper rigorous study, then they had no place in the final conclusions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 21 Feb 21 - 02:42 PM

If I am considering starting a specific diet, I read the book or the information which is authorised by the originator of the diet (i.e. not just garbled information on social media) or there may be information available on TV, like Michael Mosley's programmes. (That is how I heard about the 5:2 Fast diet.)

I make my decision to start the diet based on whether the diet has been scientifically studied, the proposed health benefits and possible pitfalls, the specific health condition(s) which may be addressed and most importantly, whether the recommended foods are healthy and balanced, with a focus on vegetables, healthy proteins including legumes, and good fibre intake.

That is my personal list of criteria. I don't have any specific health conditions to worry about but I do need to make sure that the diet is heart healthy and not likely to adversely affect cholesterol levels.

I also evaluate the reasoning behind the proposed diet. Back in the '80's when I read the Dr Atkins diet book I thought there was some scientific reasoning behind it and Atkins had studied diet participants and their health outcomes over a significant period of time. To me, there seemed to be a good scientific basis for the diet.
It was also controversial at the time, and Atkins has revised the diet based on further outcomes from studies.

One especially controversial proposal in the Atkins diet at the time was that sugar has crept into almost everything we eat and that products marketed as low-fat and healthy often have a higher sugar content to make it taste better, so when buying low-fat yoghurt, for example, it helps to compare the sugar content with other products.

Most of the diets out there which are proposed on good scientific principles also recommend exercise and a lot of them recommend portion control.

Personally I tend to avoid diets which push only one food type, or which appear to have little or no scientific study to back it up. As an example, I read the book about the blood type diet when it was first published because people I met had been talking about it. I wasn't impressed with the reasoning behind it, it seemed to have no scientific basis, and the division of which foods were appropriate for each blood type seemed to be randomly allocated. I don't know anyone who seriously tried it, and my final deduction - i.e. this is just my opinion - was that the author just wanted to make money from the book, scanned the diet types on the market, came up with something completely new and started flogging it on the market, on TV, in the media. That's just my opinion but it's based on what I read in the book.

As a weight loss diet, I would not try the keto diet, but as Mrrzy said early in this thread it has been studied as a diet to help with seizures so on that basis, I think it may have benefits.

I looked at the keto diet in more detail after reading this thread and I personally would not use it for weight loss. I have had success, back in the '80's with the Atkins diet, but more recently I have used the principles of the 5:2 Fast diet, the CSIRO diet based on a healthy balance of food, and diets which help with balancing the gut microbiome. All of these diets have similar principles, but each one has a specific approach and the principles of each are not in conflict so they all work together fairly well, in my own experience.

I am just a study of one person, but if each person who tries a diet looks at it critically, keeps monitoring health effects in consultation with medical or nutritional people, and has good outcomes, then a diet can be beneficial.

So, mg, your information on your experience with the keto diet is valid. If it works for you, then more power to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 21 Feb 21 - 03:46 PM

I just found this:

CSIRO Diet Review 2021 "Scientifically Proven Weight Loss Solution"

Caution: this review is on a website owned by a food company but I just read the review and it appears to be well written and presenting a balanced view.

I bought the book about 10 years ago. It's not necessary to pay for the diet which is fairly expensive. Just buy the book. And there are also plans for specific health issues e.g. diabetes, gut health, heart health etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Feb 21 - 08:50 PM

I read that as the CRISCO diet and burst out laughing. Then I reread it.

Then I saw Scientifically Proven Weight Loss Solution and burst out laughing all over again!

But I am not trying to lose weight, just to stay sane, anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 21 Feb 21 - 09:45 PM

Well, laughter is good medicine so I'm pleased I could help. LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 21 Feb 21 - 10:49 PM

Anyway, you wanted a high fat keto diet, so maybe Crisco is just what you were looking for.

I know the CSIRO diet is a weight loss diet but I just think it's a good healthy eating plan and it could be adapted as a good basis to the keto concept.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Feb 21 - 03:22 AM

Eat insect protein or die? Really??

Cherry picking the reportage again. Binary brain?

The guy was a medical student, resourceful and knew his fate, or the one he was diagnosed with. You have to watch the video to see a man giving a balanced appraisal and compare it with an evangelistic vegan (for instance) to test the veracity of the guy's words. And you would side with "the guy is genuine" until proven otherwise.

And years ago I saw a series of adverts in a science/technology magazine aimed at reducing heart attacks etc. The strap line was "Listen to your body"

And that is just what that guy was doing. It informed the progress with his diet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 22 Feb 21 - 05:20 AM

The company website which had the review of the CSIRO diet has no connection with the CSIRO. Someone from the company was reviewing the diet. And in my post I advised that the company reviewing the diet was a food company.

CSIRO, in case you are wondering, which you aren't because you don't ask questions and you don't appear to do proper research and review of information, is the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation, an Australian Government agency responsible for scientific research.

Perhaps you would like to research that - in a fair and balanced manner instead of jumping to incorrect conclusions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Feb 21 - 08:42 AM

Yeah, I did think the Crisco thing was a high-fat suggestion...

But it might be nice to eat cheeses again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: mg
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 02:56 PM

Dr Atkins died after falling on ice. He had a heart history of cardiomyopathy. I think caused by a virus. It is I'm not positive he did or did not have a heart attack. But everyone please research this and make sure you have accurate information.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 03:08 PM

Thanks mg.

There has been a lot of misinformation about Dr Atkins and his controversial diet since the book was first published. My biggest source of annoyance about that is the majority of the people spreading the misinformation have never read the whole book or the complete diet information before forming an opinion and telling the world what they think. It's even easier to spread misinformation now because of the internet and social media.

As an ex-librarian, the spreading of false information is, in my opinion, almost a "crime against humanity". Sorry, I'm exaggerating a bit, but it is irresponsible and can have negative and in some cases serious consequences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 07:56 PM

Mods, please check out that Dr Atkins died several days after having a heart attack! You seem to be rather intent on leaving unbalanced information here. Don't you think that this at least should be known about a cardiologist guru who promoted, and got very rich from, a high-fat diet??
No No heart attack. He had cardiomyopathy, probably caused by a virus. According to Wikipedia: "Nine days prior to his death, Atkins fell and hit his head on an icy New York sidewalk. At New York's Weill Cornell Medical Center, where he was admitted on April 8, he underwent surgery to remove a blood clot from his brain but went into a coma and died from complications. He spent nine days in intensive care before dying on April 17, 2003" -Mod/factchecker


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 08:08 PM

Opinion and misinformation not based on fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 09:23 PM

From the CrossFit article:
"Low-carb and keto diets are currently surging in popularity. Many of Atkinsí claims about the superiority of his diet for weight loss are now being validated, and new research is showing ketogenic diets to be an effective treatment for Type 2 diabetes and a variety of other metabolic disorders. Low-carb diets are proving beneficial in ways unimaginable to Atkinsí critics. Weíre advancing toward a new landscape in nutrition, and Atkins deserves his fair share of the credit, for he remained steadfast despite tremendous pressure to give in to the mob mentality driving fat hysteria."


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: mg
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 11:29 PM

they say he died weighing around 258 pounds. However, on his hospital admission after falling on the ice, he weighed 195 pounds. So they say. Massive weight gain in about nine days due to fluids.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 11:35 PM

Mg, the crossfit article quoted his wife who said that he was given fluids while he was in a coma so his weight on his death was significantly higher than his weight on admission to hospital.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 04:33 AM

Well, we can all cherrypick. If you think Atkins is good for you, great, go for it. But don't come here singing its praises and advocating it for overweight people. If you would rather skirt round the murky and occasionally suspicious details of his later-life physical health and death, grand, but just remember that the truth was deliberately hidden by his family.   Overweight people are overweight because they don't work off as many calories as they take in. That's a kind way of saying that they eat too much and are relatively physically inactive. So you advocate a high-fat diet for such people. I call that just a tad irresponsible, frankly, when what you should be advocating FIRST is an overall reduction in food intake whilst maintaining a balanced diet (NOT a dirty term and NOT a last resort!). Atkins made many millions by promoting his diet. What's left of his company isn't interested in it these days and we have a massive obesity epidemic. Whatever else contributes to that, it certainly isn't because we are not eating enough fat.       Be rational and dig deeper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 09:55 AM

Reading the article you posted would've been rational. You're the one doing the cherry-picking.
You're trying too hard to find some excuse to go after Mrrzy, and desperation never comes off well.

After reading the CrossFit article, I've learned things. I knew the Atkins diet worked, but I didn't know what it's long-term effect, or what its effects on other body chemistry issues would be. So thanks to Steve for making me aware of something that probably accidentally said the opposite of what he thought it did, and filled out those points.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 01:19 PM

This article is the one quoted by Jeri on 24 Feb 21, 09:23 PM

The Death of Dr. Atkins By Tyler Hass July 3, 2020

A Google search of

Crossfit Dr Atkins

returns a lot of interesting articles.

I'm reading this one - Itís the insulin resistance, stupid: Part 3
By Prof. Timothy Noakes - it's a bit long - but an interesting account of how Dr Atkins researched possible solutions to obesity

Just to get back to the original topic of this thread, a Google search of

Crossfit keto

returns a lot of results too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: mg
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 04:38 PM

if he was 195 pounds when he entered the hospital following his fall, would that be considered overweight? I don't know his height, musculature etc. He died at around 258 pounds, which seems it would definitely fall into the overweight category but it seems to be explained by fluid retention in the hospital.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 04:58 PM

To be fair to both of us, Steve Shaw, I have often felt that you "go after me" and you have upset me, sometimes badly and not infrequently, in so doing.

However, now that I am fairly carb-free (the pee stick says I am in ketosis! Yay!) I have more equanimity. And I don't hold grudges. But it is because of that, that I try to point out when we agree on things, to preemptively prevent you from coming after me again.

I don't think Helen's complaints were entirely baseless, either.

And I really don't think it is the mod's job to fact-check this forum! Really not! You have a question about who is telling a truth, look it up yourself, you the reader! Post your findings if they do contradict, and back down from your accusations if you're wrong. You know, like a grownup.

And, like grownups, remember that if someone disagrees with your *opinion* they are not *wrong* - your opinion is not a truth. It is your opinion. Steve Shaw, this is an issue I have had with you individually.

But back to the keto thing: I don't think I have had any of the weird symptoms of ketosis... I don't smell acetone on my breath (but I live alone), I have not felt ill or fluish (yeah, I know, I don't *look* fluish), so, fine. My regular doc keeps pushing back my regular appt, which is annoying because I was being rigorous for the checkup, then it got postponed a week, ok, grumble, but then it got delayed another month and yikes, not planning on being careful for *that* long.

And I like having equanimity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 05:02 PM

I canít help but wonder how he managed to Ďretainí 60-plus lbs of fluid in the space of, what, a week? Thatís a lot of fluid. Can it really be factual? (Thatís a genuine question by the way - Iíd be very interested to hear from someone who actually knows if thatís a likely scenario)?


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 05:04 PM

Well done, Mrrzy. Keep that equanimity going strong!


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 10:36 PM

There's a Mark Twain tale, by way of Hal Holbrook, that his doctor told him he had to cut down on smoking and eating and drinking and swearing to improve the state of his health. Mark Twain said he couldn't cut down on them.

The doctor said "why not"
"Because I lack the will power. I can cut them out entirely, but I can't cut down on them!"

the doctor told him to cut down on them entirely. Once he felt better, Mark Twain started them up again.

I had a similar experience on the low calorie, very low carb, low fat diet. As long as I rigidly adhered, I lost weight like I was on an elevator. There were protein and vitamin supplements and I had to drink a great deal of water. It was tough going through the supermarket. All I was there for was some meat and cruciform vegetables. Oh, and as much lettuce and cabbage as I wanted. I was in ketosis, but once in, my mind functioned well and I don't recall any special breath problems. I do recall having no spare energy, none. I would make myself get to my floor via stairs, but I didn't do so with brisk enjoyment. Either of those. On the other hand, I found myself fitting into sizes of clothes I hadn't been into in many years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 03:20 AM

My friend and I have often discussed that, Robomatic, coming to the conclusion that we are good at abstinence but crap at moderation. It's either a gallon of beer or none!


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 03:46 AM

Eat what you like but don't swallow.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 10:35 AM

Cruciform veg! That cracked me up!


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 01:12 PM

A friend gave me a Keto Bite, "double dark chocolate cookie dough." It's a block of "candy", less than 2" across and about 5/8 inches thick. In other words, dessert if you are dieting.

It looked delicious but had no taste whatever. In texture, it seemed like eating window putty. Its first four ingredients were cashews, palm oil, tapioca and chocolate chips. There were lots of other ingredients, but I figure they are not important.

In its 25 grams, this little treat contains 15% of one's total daily fat and 23% of saturated fat. That's almost one-fourth. I made sure my friend took the remaining bars home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 07:31 PM

Yeah, I saw some keto ice cream bars... Chemical, chemical, fake sugar, other fake sugar, blecch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 09:37 AM

Mark Twain said he would not quit smoking because if he did he would have no cargo to throw overboard when the ship was actually sinking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 01:18 PM

A significant part of low carb diets is being aware of the hidden sugars in processed foods.

This page has a description of a documentary called
The Sugar Conspiracy

..........

"Regardless of how healthy or simple people tried to keep their diet, the inevitability that their kitchen pantries and fridges were stockpiled with invisible but ubiquitous sugar raised significant alarm for health professionals and government.

"But this alarm was smothered by a blanket of savvy PR tactics and multibillion dollar campaigns to silence critics of the food industry. As the investigation in the documentary The Sugar Conspiracy reveals, sugar proponents used methods similar to those employed by tobacco companies defending their products decades earlier.

"In 1967, a study into the effects of sugar on heart disease risk factors was initially funded by the International Sugar Research Foundation (ISRF). But when results showed that high-sugar diets led to higher levels of fats in the blood, the ISRF withdrew funding and insisted the results remain secret. Yudkin had also discovered a significant relationship between sugar consumption and coronary disease. His experiments convinced him that it was in fact sugar, not saturated fat that was a greater danger in raising the risk of heart disease.

"But the medical establishment continued to insist that it was fat, not sugar, that must be decreased to ensure good health. Yudkinís assertions were labelled fictional, eccentric and unproven by fellow academics and sugar industry spokespeople."

.............


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: leeneia
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 01:52 PM

Helen, your post interested me so I decided to look further into the question of sugar leading to fat in the blood. I found a page from the University of California at San Francisco, and the page is quoting the Royal Society of New Zealand.

Here's the only info connecting sugar to blood:

"Fructose is also taken up into the blood from the gut, but in this case, the liver serves as a pre-processing organ that can convert fructose to glucose or fat. The liver can release the glucose and fat into the blood or store it as glycogen or fat deposits..."

Makes me glad we have cut our sugar consumption way down at our house.


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Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 02:28 PM

Hi leeneia,

There's not a lot of sugar or processed foods in our house either. It's the hidden sugar in processed foods which are a big danger if you don't check the labels.

In Australia, we had a major COVID 19 lockdown for a couple of months from March last year and because we were cooking more and eating out less, I lost weight. Most of the people I say that to, including my doctor, usually laugh and say that I'm the only person they know who lost weight instead of gaining weight in the lockdown. We were cooking meals with lots of vegetables and legumes and whole foods. A lot of other people were getting takeaway food from the big, well-known fast food chains - or maybe they should be renamed the fat-food chains.

Also, a couple of years ago a little girl in a beautiful party dress knocked on our door on Halloween and I had to tell them that we don't have sweets and treats in our house. The next year the local school made it a rule that the only houses the trick-or-treaters could go to were the ones with Halloween decorations up so I don't have to disappoint them any more.


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