BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 10:38 AM

Well we don't need prescriptions but we do need to be mindful and humanitarian in the words we each choose.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 10:29 AM

Jeri it is better to use the term parent , , the language imo is not absurd , for example it becomes more apt for single parent families , or for mothers that now use sperm banks, and the child does not have a living father, you have to move with the times

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 10:03 AM

I'm all for being nice, but the "rules" in the article are just plain stupid.
Any trans people who come here aren't likely to be offended by "breast" or "mother". The language has ventured into the absurd, and looks more like the article, and its prohibitions, were created by a right wing whacko who was ham-handedly wielding irony.

Which is, I believe, how the term "political correctness" entered the lexicon.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 08:54 AM

Yep, it's tough all right. For them. Extra tough because they have no right not to be offended with regard to everything else in life, like the rest of us, but with the icing on the cake for them being the extra thing that can be used to offend them. Offend them or, put it another way, subject them to your prejudice. Don't forget to stop just short of hate speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 08:35 AM

"there are people who come on to this forum who are trans who could be offended, that is the difference"

Well that is tough is it not? Nobody has the right not to be offended.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 04:03 AM

It costs me nothing to make an effort to adapt my vocabulary,
I agree and if it makes a a person feel more comfotrable when visiting this forum. why not.
I know two trans people from the uk folk scene who occasionally visit here why would i want to upset them

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 03:58 AM

I too find it tricky keeping up with all the latest PC/'woke' ways of using words, but for me the main idea is not to offend anybody and to avoid words/expressions which hurt people's feelings or imply prejudice, insult or disparagement.
It costs me nothing to make an effort to adapt my vocabulary. It might be tedious and make me hesitate to open my mouth (which my husband cheekily says is a Very Good Thing!) but I would feel terrible if anyone was hurt or upset by something I inadvertently said.
I've posted on here before about how he jokingly calls me 'Honky' and I call him 'Nigger' (mostly in private). And his cringe-making habit of calling out in the supermarket from the next aisle, "Darling! You're Nigger is 'ere!" making everyone around us aghast with horror.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 03:48 AM

there are people who come on to this forum who are trans who could be offended, that is the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: leeneia
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 12:57 AM

On the geological map of Newfoundland there is a dotted line labelled "The Red Indian Line." While on a tour, I asked the expert what that meant, and she went off about the political incorrectness of it. (For all we know, it was named by a red Indian.)

First of all, there were no native people anywhere nearby to be offended, and she brushed off my science question of no importance. That's an example of someone using political correctness to grab the spotlight.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 04:57 PM

Careful, Dick - Valentine's Day was yesterday... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 03:33 PM

and you.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 02:47 PM

...Apart from you... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 01:37 PM

no of course bonzo is not bonkers he is the most intelligent sensible tolerant liberal person on mudcat

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 12:59 PM

its still ok for bonzo to call someone bonkers so i think bonzo is bonkers

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Jos
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 12:21 PM

My problem is that what is offensive and what is acceptable keep changing. For example, 'cripple' was replaced by 'handicapped', and then by 'disabled', and now some insist on saying 'differently abled' - soon it will be something else, and earlier versions that used to be widespread and considered correct will be considered insulting or offensive.
Or the 'offensive' terms may reappear as acceptable. Black people can now refer to themselves as niggers, but if you are not black it is frowned on or roundly condemned.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 12:02 PM

Well I think we should make the effort. As I said, politically-incorrect language (call it lazy language?) is in danger of demeaning groups of people who already have more than enough by way of prejudice to contend with. They have to make a mighty effort to escape their predicament. We have to make a tiny effort just to try to get the words right. All we have to do is try; it doesn't matter if we occasionally get it wrong...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 10:56 AM

Me, I've come to suspect that most demands for political correctness are meant to derail the discussion and focus attention on the demander. It's childish, or at least 50% childish.

Sure, if you hear a kid say "nigger," you teach him better. But I'm tired of wondering which of four terms to use for "Native Americans from south of the Rio Grand."

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:32 PM

I haven't even looked. Not my gig. If stuff goes, it's gone. Cheers anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:12 PM

Steve, I took the fighting words out of the Amazon thread. That's why you don't see them.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 05:48 PM

That's it. Words as weapons. I have a little paperback that I bought in the 1980s called In A Dark Time. The first chapter is called Words. It consists of quotations from lots of different sources, many of which reveal how words can be weapons, how words can twist things and manipulate, as well as how words can inspire. Trump is a complete arse but he has used words brilliantly. He's an evil sod but he fully knows how to keep words simple, how to whip up his simple supporters via his simple words. It ill-behoves us mainstream-types to complain that getting the right words is too hard, too much of a nuisance, too much of a pain in the arse, when we have to talk about minorities, who have to struggle a damn sight more with their feelings of repression and their battles with prejudice than we have to do with our words. I haven't got my head round the language of gender as yet, but I'm buggered if I'm going to sound off about the issue until I've educated myself as to the right words to use...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 04:30 PM

No disagreement with that..

The problem is that however these new words which are satisfactory for minorities are decided upon.
They can then become weaponised by activist fanatics, and imposed on greater mass mainstream socity,
by force of internet bullying/canceling;
or even law and punishment..

This is what lefty liberals like me feel uncomfortable with,
and what antagonistic right wing media
can exploit as ammunition to fuel prejudice
against minorities...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 04:17 PM

Well we do sometimes struggle with finding the right words. Negro, black, coloured, Afro-Caribbean, black African, African-American, person of colour... Gay, queer, homosexual, lesbian, queen...Asian, British Asian... Same thing with gender matters that we have to tussle with. The thing is, the people like you and me who have to tussle with finding the words are not the people in those minorities who oft find themselves discriminated against, often with the words of language we are now tussling with being the main weapon. To my way of thinking, it's worth our efforts to be respectful enough to find the right words, the words those minorities would want us to use (not necessarily the words they might use among their own). It's hard work, but not as hard as the work those minorities have to do to fight those prejudices...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 04:09 PM

Why on earth would anybody think I speak for anyone other than myself?

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: leeneia
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 03:27 PM

Last week the pastor of my church said that she had been talking to hospital chaplains who are very discouraged because doctors and nurses are leaving medicine because of the great stress caused by Covid. I'm sure all nations have similar problems.

That being the case, this is hardly the time to add further stresses by making demands about people's vocabulary.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 10:49 AM

Sorry, Maggie, but if you don't see the difference between "suggesting that non-expert celebs who sound off about things unrelated to the reason for their celebrity should perhaps be viewed through a lens of scepticism" and "sweeping dismissal of the general intellect of all people in the public eye" then I think you're having a bad day. I note that you have also dismissed a thread that's discussing Amazon as having been set up for fighting. Well go and have a look and see how we are handling it. The main fighting talk in that thread so far has come from you and Jeri.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 09:59 AM

but do you speak for all trans peopl?/

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:56 AM

Not offended by Bonzo3legs, here.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:43 AM

I am saying that non-expert celebs who sound off about things unrelated to the reason for their celebrity should perhaps be viewed through a lens of scepticism.

And I view such sweeping dismissal of the general intellect of all people in the public eye as nonsense. Each must be taken on their own merit. I don't find Rowling's intellect to be lacking, so she may speak about what she wants to. Now Trump, that's another story. He can shut up from the get go. See how that works?

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:40 AM

there are trans performers on the uk folk circuit they occasionally post here ,they dont want bonzos intellectual insults

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:36 AM

free to insult trans members of mudcat,bloody diosgrace

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:16 AM

Free country it is indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:15 AM

Perhaps it would be best if you spiced your lack of interest with lack of comment, Bonzo. Free country, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:01 AM

Not interested, they can sort out their own problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 07:12 AM

I think you are forgetting hermaphrodite/intersex people Bonzo

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:21 AM

I'm sure we all appreciate your all-seeing, all-knowing tolerance, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 05:39 AM

Man woman, boy girl........end of. Only cranks attention seekers and fruitcakes think otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 07:55 PM

"Sometimes, it feels like you're trying to provoke a fight with me. While you can keep trying if it makes you happy, I hope you don't mind if I continue to ignore the opportunity."

What?? You are clearly somewhat anti-Brit, and you don't mind showing it, but that does not provoke me at all. It's entirely your problem. You don't do nuance, do you? The post that this is a response to is yet another 100 mph slam. If you want a fight I shall gracefully step away. This 'ere internet thingie is far too two-dimensional to get all hoity-toity about. Real life is always round the corner and I have a cottage pie to make for tea tomorrow. Can you see that?

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 07:40 PM

PFR, it's just my opinion, but it's not worth it.s far. There are some things I just won't ever understand.
Steve, she HAS dialed it back, and a as I've seen, has mostly avoided talking about it. I guess it was likely the smart thing to do.
I don't know why you thought my comment about people slamming to one side or the other was directed at you. Sometimes, it feels like you're trying to provoke a fight with me. While you can keep trying if it makes you happy, I hope you don't mind if I continue to ignore the opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 07:20 PM

...In m'humble...   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 07:09 PM

Well you're DC but I don't regard you as being related to George Washington...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 06:51 PM

"Steve" begins with "St" but I don't think of you as a saint.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 06:28 PM

I'll try harder. I've been called Mr Arsey in my time...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 06:23 PM

Mrrzy does start with an m and an r but that is funny you would think that it starts with Mr.! I only had that happen once before, in a meetup thing, with a group I did a lot with. One party, someone turned to me and asked Who is this Mr. Arzy who always signs up and never shows? Mrrzy is just my name, pronounced like the river Mersey, or like myrrh+zee, or like mercy with a z.

And when addressing me, one would use my name, or the pronouns You and Your, all gender-free. When *referring to me* in my presence, the name stays the same but the pronoun becomes They, Them, or Their. I think of it as plural, referring to my mind and body, which differ in gender.

I must admit, though, when people do remember to say They when referring to me, I have a tendency to think Wait, me and who else? I only figured out not being cis about 5-6 years ago... I have some getting used to it to do. So I feel for the folks that have a hard time with They as a singular pronoun.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 05:23 PM

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I I I I   I    I   I    I    I       I       I      I      I    I    I   I   I   I I I I I I IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

There you go. The human race by gender.

Mrrzy, your soubriquet begins with "Mr." I've assumed from that, 'til now, that you are a fella. There are occasions when I've had to refer to you as something. If I've got that wrong, I apologise, but do try to be clear as to how you would like to be addressed. As for me, call me whatever you like.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 05:11 PM

.. though that guess might also be unfair...???

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 05:09 PM

Dick - no problems, as long as we enjoy good humoured banter...

I can walk in on my mrs watching some random celebrity panel TV show,
and these days I haven't a clue who a lot of them are.

But that's mainly because there's a new generation of celebs emerging from social media blogs and videos..

They already have mass influence on the internet,
before TV headhunts them for celebrity showcase realty shows
and light entertainment programs..

It's a fair guess that.. [generalisation alert]..
that not too many of 'em
are progressive liberals or lefties...???

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 04:39 PM

not all pfr, nothing to do with you ,
   more the principle of people making generalised statements, a lot of posters do it particularly below the line. particularly on the subject of brexit[ i do not include you on that one]
jos
you can be a member of society, and be unknowing of celebreties but celebration is not necessarily about appearing on television or magazines, these days it is also about the internet, because you have not heard of them it does not mean that they are not celebrities, how about looking them up and learning.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 04:38 PM

Jos - that's a very crucial question...

But all celebs have potential power and influence,
for good or bad, on social media...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Jos
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 04:18 PM

What qualifies someone as being a "celebrity"? Is it someone most people respect, or at least know about?
Sandman's list of eight celebrities includes only one that I have heard of. Maybe that is a sign of my ignorance.
Or does it mean that I don't watch enough television or read enough magazines to be accepted as a member of society?

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 04:17 PM

But it's funny how so many of you highly intelligent celebs
constantly get into such career damaging trouble
by posting very stupid statements on social media...